You called it Bob

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The second this idiot starting shilling for politicians the last go around she list all credibility. This is her claim to fame. She is riding it. No one is calling her out due to the PC nature of it all.

Shoot me, I don't fucking care. What happened to them is terrible. How it effects hiring a football coach now is beyond me.

She's right. It was partly because of the "culture", however, I don't think she's quite grasping the part of the culture that he had a problem with. Much of it comes form outsiders who seek to disrupt through anger and vengeful actions.

Floyd Robertson wrote:Shoot me, I don't fucking care. What happened to them is terrible. How it effects hiring a football coach now is beyond me.

Because she is selling a book now and needs to be relevant.

NigelUno wrote:[tw]1227042145913184256[/tw]

I get no joy from being right all of the time.

I want this chick to be okay, but between the jesus-y stuff, the politicizing of the horrors, and the incessant victimhood at every single turn, it begins to wear on you.

nobody asked me - but you only get one shot at life. My advice would be to live it. Intense therapy, counseling, enjoy your family, take care of your mind, body, spirit, eat well, rest, drink a lot of water - and enjoy life.

that's just me.. and I'm just one idiot with one opinion.

His mention of 'culture' is so vague and open to interpretation. My take he was mostly concerned about how it would impact his program with the Blackwell lawsuit but that's just my opinion.

DWags wrote:She's right.  It was partly because  of the "culture", however, I don't think she's quite grasping the part of the culture that he had a problem with.  Much of it comes form outsiders who seek to disrupt through anger and vengeful actions.  

while she's busy extolling the moral virtue of Luke Fickell, she should do a little research about the culture at Ohio State - a place that her new hero is so closely tied to - and get back to us.

Also, I'm over Fickell. Guy wanted less money and to play for a smaller program. Good for him. Next.

I think some are missing the point. This isn't about Denhollander impacting a search for a football coach. Horrific things happened at State, to her and we should all, as Spartans, collectively own that. What is more important, in my view, the lack of a truth and reconciliation process to deal with the aftermath of Nassar.

The issue she is pointing out, rightly so in my view, is the lack of leadership we've had to appropriately manage a process to both determine what truly happened and how it can be prevented. Crisis response - any well-run institution can do this. Engler failed miserably at this. We've a board that remains dysfunctional, we lack leadership in the AD role, Stanley is new, and Klages is a headline today because Michigan State can't manage to not shoot itself in the foot.

Someone like Denhollander "goes away" when she feels her voice is being heard. Not by you, not by me...but by the collective we and by the university as a whole. She's a messenger. The message ain't wrong......

Heathens '87 wrote:I think some are missing the point. This isn't about Denhollander impacting a search for a football coach. Horrific things happened at State, to her and we should all, as Spartans, collectively own that. What is more important, in my view, the lack of a truth and reconciliation process to deal with the aftermath of Nassar.

The issue she is pointing out, rightly so in my view, is the lack of leadership we've had to appropriately manage a process to both determine what truly happened and how it can be prevented. Crisis response - any well-run institution can do this. Engler failed miserably at this. We've a board that remains dysfunctional, we lack leadership in the AD role, Stanley is new, and Klages is a headline today because Michigan State can't manage to not shoot itself in the foot.

Someone like Denhollander "goes away" when she feels her voice is being heard. Not by you, not by me...but by the collective we and by the university as a whole. She's a messenger. The message ain't wrong.......

I get it. I'm just not a fan of the messenger.

Heathens '87 wrote:I think some are missing the point. This isn't about Denhollander impacting a search for a football coach. Horrific things happened at State, to her and we should all, as Spartans, collectively own that. What is more important, in my view, the lack of a truth and reconciliation process to deal with the aftermath of Nassar.

The issue she is pointing out, rightly so in my view, is the lack of leadership we've had to appropriately manage a process to both determine what truly happened and how it can be prevented. Crisis response - any well-run institution can do this. Engler failed miserably at this. We've a board that remains dysfunctional, we lack leadership in the AD role, Stanley is new, and Klages is a headline today because Michigan State can't manage to not shoot itself in the foot.

Someone like Denhollander "goes away" when she feels her voice is being heard. Not by you, not by me...but by the collective we and by the university as a whole. She's a messenger. The message ain't wrong.......

I think trying to bring Fickell into it is kind of a stretch though.

Heathens '87 wrote:I think some are missing the point. This isn't about Denhollander impacting a search for a football coach. Horrific things happened at State, to her and we should all, as Spartans, collectively own that. What is more important, in my view, the lack of a truth and reconciliation process to deal with the aftermath of Nassar.

The issue she is pointing out, rightly so in my view, is the lack of leadership we've had to appropriately manage a process to both determine what truly happened and how it can be prevented. Crisis response - any well-run institution can do this. Engler failed miserably at this. We've a board that remains dysfunctional, we lack leadership in the AD role, Stanley is new, and Klages is a headline today because Michigan State can't manage to not shoot itself in the foot.

Someone like Denhollander "goes away" when she feels her voice is being heard. Not by you, not by me...but by the collective we and by the university as a whole. She's a messenger. The message ain't wrong.......

Co-sign. I haven't paid much attention to her in the aftermath of the Nassar stuff, but I certainly don't begrudge her writing a book and profiting off of the horrible stuff that happened to her.

Frankly, I'd rather MSU overcompensate to appease the victims, rather than not doing enough. If that scares off some potential coaches, so be it. The wages of sin is death, as they say.

Robert J Sakimano wrote: I get it. I'm just not a fan of the messenger.

It's a bit over the top. And those who work at victim's rights don't typically do so with subtlety. Her background and religious views should tell you she can define and use words like crusade and mission.....

steveschneider wrote:Also, I'm over Fickell. Guy wanted less money and to play for a smaller program. Good for him. Next.

6 kids. Think of all the friendships that 6 kids would have (and the friendships with the parents as well). His wife probably likes Cincinnati. Less pressure. He'll get a raise, and now he's a hero/legend for staying.

I think that's what he meant by being "selfish". He knew it would be better for his wife and kids to stay there. That's fine. We'll find somebody else.

As far as “campus culture” goes. Aren’t most coaches hired because the school wants them to move the culture in a different direction? Not that it’s solely his responsibility but to deny the head football coach plays a big role in team and campus culture would be disingenuous. Guess he didn’t feel up to it.

Heathens '87 wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote: I get it. I'm just not a fan of the messenger.

It's a bit over the top.  And those who work at victim's rights don't typically do so with subtlety.  Her background and religious views should tell you she can define and use words like crusade and mission......

which is why I steer clear of people with her background and religious views.

NigelUno wrote:

steveschneider wrote:Also, I'm over Fickell. Guy wanted less money and to play for a smaller program. Good for him. Next.

6 kids. Think of all the friendships that 6 kids would have (and the friendships with the parents as well). His wife probably likes Cincinnati. Less pressure. He'll get a raise, and now he's a hero/legend for staying.

I think that's what he meant by being "selfish". He knew it would be better for his wife and kids to stay there. That's fine. We'll find somebody else.

I read that somewhere.

kingstonlake wrote:As far as “campus culture” goes. Aren’t most coaches hired because the school wants them to move the culture in a different direction? Not that it’s solely his responsibility but to deny the head football coach plays a big role in team and campus culture would be disingenuous. Guess he didn’t feel up to it.

I thought it was wins.

NigelUno wrote:

I think trying to bring Fickell into it is kind of a stretch though.

Fickell isn't going to get into specifics so it's out there in vague "culture" language. That is going to open the door to interpretation by those who wish to use the opportunity.

This in a 7-day period where....MSU got rejected by a hire because of "culture," a gift shop made national news with a display that simply wasn't thought out, and the Nassar enabling Klages goes to trial. We're on a PR roll......

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
which is why I steer clear of people with her background and religious views.

I oddly enjoy them when they show up on the porch as it's darn easy to poke holes in their worldview. But we're certainly not sitting down for a pitcher at Crunchy's after a hockey game.....

Heathens '87 wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
which is why I steer clear of people with her background and religious views.

I oddly enjoy them when they show up on the porch as it's darn easy to poke holes in their worldview. But we're certainly not sitting down for a pitcher at Crunchy's after a hockey game.....

'zactly..

NigelUno wrote:

steveschneider wrote:Also, I'm over Fickell. Guy wanted less money and to play for a smaller program. Good for him. Next.

6 kids.  Think of all the friendships that 6 kids would have (and the friendships with the parents as well).  His wife probably likes Cincinnati.  Less pressure.  He'll get a raise, and now he's a hero/legend for staying.

I think that's what he meant by being "selfish".  He knew it would be better for his wife and kids to stay there.  That's fine.  We'll find somebody else.  

I have 9 siblings. My Dad moved us 4 times in a 12 year period. ( Chicago, New York, back to Chicago ,Detroit ) He never asked our permission or even sought our opinion.

I can't say it better than this.   It was sent to me by my daughter. But know this miss Denhollander, I am sick about the emotional and physical pain that you went through, nobody should be made to do that.  I just have a bit of a problem with the victory lap type nature of her tweet.  It really disregards so many good people and so many good things going on at MSU.  I'll post this tweet, he's right on so many levels and sure can put it better than I can.  If she thinks that we aren't daily "working on the culture" she's mistaken.  

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All those stories will change you- at least they should. And if a football coach doesn't want to come here and be part of doing the hard work to help this place that we all love become what it can, then just thank them for letting us know up front and move the hell on.

duffy munn wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

6 kids. Think of all the friendships that 6 kids would have (and the friendships with the parents as well). His wife probably likes Cincinnati. Less pressure. He'll get a raise, and now he's a hero/legend for staying.

I think that's what he meant by being "selfish". He knew it would be better for his wife and kids to stay there. That's fine. We'll find somebody else.

I have 9 siblings. My Dad moved us 4 times in a 12 year period. ( Chicago, New York, back to Chicago ,Detroit ) He never asked out permission or even sought our opinion.

clearly your Dad wasn't concerned with the "culture"...

duffy munn wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

6 kids. Think of all the friendships that 6 kids would have (and the friendships with the parents as well). His wife probably likes Cincinnati. Less pressure. He'll get a raise, and now he's a hero/legend for staying.

I think that's what he meant by being "selfish". He knew it would be better for his wife and kids to stay there. That's fine. We'll find somebody else.

I have 9 siblings. My Dad moved us 4 times in a 12 year period. ( Chicago, New York, back to Chicago ,Detroit ) He never asked out permission or even sought our opinion.

Yeah, but parents hated their kids back in the day.

Heathens '87 wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

I think trying to bring Fickell into it is kind of a stretch though.

Fickell isn't going to get into specifics so it's out there in vague "culture" language. That is going to open the door to interpretation by those who wish to use the opportunity.

This in a 7-day period where....MSU got rejected by a hire because of "culture," a gift shop made national news with a display that simply wasn't thought out, and the Nassar enabling Klages goes to trial. We're on a PR roll.......

Fickell said this:

"The bottom line is, first and foremost, family. Obviously my family loves it here, I have a unique situation with the age of my kids," Fickell said. "... I had to make a selfish decision, but this selfish decision was what was right for my family, and that is to be here."

I think he stayed because of the kids. Did other stuff factor in? Maybe.

DWags wrote:I can't say it better than this.   It was sent to me by my daughter. But know this miss Denhollander, I am sick about the emotional and physical pain that you went through, nobody should be made to do that.  I just have a bit of a problem with the victory lap type nature of her tweet.  It really disregards so many good people and so many good things going on at MSU.  I'll post this tweet, he's right on so many levels and sure can put it better than I can.  If she thinks that we aren't daily "working on the culture" she's mistaken.  

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yep...

but that doesn't get clicks.

duffy munn wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

6 kids.  Think of all the friendships that 6 kids would have (and the friendships with the parents as well).  His wife probably likes Cincinnati.  Less pressure.  He'll get a raise, and now he's a hero/legend for staying.

I think that's what he meant by being "selfish".  He knew it would be better for his wife and kids to stay there.  That's fine.  We'll find somebody else.  

I have 9 siblings. My Dad moved us 4 times in a 12 year period. ( Chicago, New York, back to Chicago ,Detroit ) He never asked out permission or even sought our opinion.

People were tough back in the day.

NigelUno wrote:

duffy munn wrote:

I have 9 siblings. My Dad moved us 4 times in a 12 year period. ( Chicago, New York, back to Chicago ,Detroit ) He never asked out permission or even sought our opinion.

People were tough back in the day.

and look what happened..

they spend their time on message boards and hanging around with Jingles.

This "culture" talk is apparently beyond me.

Without specific examples of how the "culture" enabled any of this, I don't think I will ever get it.

AvgMSUJoe wrote:This "culture" talk is apparently beyond me.

Without specific examples of how the "culture" enabled any of this, I don't think I will ever get it.

seems like the very people who are so quick to blame the "culture" are also, in some fashion, dependent on the "culture"...

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

duffy munn wrote:

I have 9 siblings. My Dad moved us 4 times in a 12 year period. ( Chicago, New York, back to Chicago ,Detroit ) He never asked out permission or even sought our opinion.

clearly your Dad wasn't concerned with the "culture"...

Nope. He did what he felt he needed to do. After I left for college he moved the 4 remaining kids at home to Connecticut. Everyone adjusted and made new friends.

come to think of it, I don't think he even asked my mom if it was ok.

different and maybe better times.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

People were tough back in the day.

and look what happened..

they spend their time on message boards and hanging around with Jingles.

Dad LOVES Jingles. Then again, who doesn't.

duffy munn wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote: clearly your Dad wasn't concerned with the "culture"...

Nope. He did what he felt he needed to do. After I left for college he moved the 4 remaining kids at home to Connecticut. Everyone adjusted and made new friends.

come to think of it, I don't think he even asked my mom if it was ok.

different and maybe better times.

yeah, come to think of it.. my parents never really asked me much of anything. I'm not even 100% sure they knew my name.

AvgMSUJoe wrote:This "culture" talk is apparently beyond me.

Without specific examples of how the "culture" enabled any of this, I don't think I will ever get it.

I take that word to represent....dysfunctional board, new President, green AD without any athletic background, Dantonio retires late to gain a bonus check, Blackwell lawsuit, Klages trial, Simon trial, Nassar still hangs over the university, etc. Hard to say to the family that you're leaving a stable position to walk into a bit of a mess. The managerial upline doesn't exactly scream competence and stability........

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

duffy munn wrote:

Nope. He did what he felt he needed to do. After I left for college he moved the 4 remaining kids at home to Connecticut. Everyone adjusted and made new friends.

come to think of it, I don't think he even asked my mom if it was ok.

different and maybe better times.

yeah, come to think of it.. my parents never really asked me much of anything. I'm not even 100% sure they knew my name.

Try being number 5 in 10. While dating my future wife in high school for 6 months she thought one of my little brothers was just a friend of the family hanging out.

"Why is that kid alway here?"

duffy munn wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

yeah, come to think of it.. my parents never really asked me much of anything. I'm not even 100% sure they knew my name.

Try being number 5 in 10. While dating my future wife in high school for 6 months she thought one of my little brothers was just a friend of the family hanging out.

"Why is that kid alway here?"

duffy munn wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

yeah, come to think of it.. my parents never really asked me much of anything. I'm not even 100% sure they knew my name.

Try being number 5 in 10. While dating my future wife in high school for 6 months she thought one of my little brothers was just a friend of the family hanging out.

"Why is that kid alway here?"

Should have said, "fuck if I know".

Heathens '87 wrote:

AvgMSUJoe wrote:This "culture" talk is apparently beyond me.

Without specific examples of how the "culture" enabled any of this, I don't think I will ever get it.

I take that word to represent....dysfunctional board, new President, green AD without any athletic background, Dantonio retires late to gain a bonus check, Blackwell lawsuit, Klages trial, Simon trial, Nassar still hangs over the university, etc. Hard to say to the family that you're leaving a stable position to walk into a bit of a mess. The managerial upline doesn't exactly scream competence and stability.........

Maybe from him, but not from her.

I think she believes there is something specifically at MSU that encourages sexual assault or the covering up of assault.