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Post by MiamiSpartan on Sat May 30, 2020 2:48 pm

Turtleneck wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:


So white people told Kapernick fuck you?  I didn't.
Maybe you did.

Either way, you couldn't have missed the point more if you tried (or perhaps you did try to miss the point).  Sympathy, empathy, collectively own, or whatever goal you have for white people, do you seriously think that violent protests are more effective in moving toward that?  

Nah, I didn’t. I think we - the white community in general - needs to spend more time reflecting on our place in society, how we can collectively make society more equitable, and not be so passive about transgressions made by other whites.

Overall, I’m not comfortable telling communities of color how to properly express what is legitimate frustration and anger with a system that will not change. I’m just not gong to make a judgement call. I wasn’t slighting you, but do think the white community as a whole needs to be a lot more reflective about what it means to be white in America, even if that means accepting some kind of collective responsibility. I think when we tell ourselves “well, I’m not like that or I don’t think like that,” and while it’s absolutely true, we’re not pushing ourselves hard enough.


I'm not saying how blacks should feel or express their anger. I never passed any judgements against what has gone on as far as the protestors go. In fact, I said I understand it. I'm talking about the impression that outsiders get from it. Violence never furthers a cause, but it does give governments an excuse for a harder more violent crackdown where the protestors are the ones perceived as having started it. This has been the case throughout American history and elsewhere.
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Post by steveschneider on Sat May 30, 2020 4:42 pm

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Post by kingstonlake on Sat May 30, 2020 6:27 pm

L.A. getting a little crazy at 3pm
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Post by Dendrobates on Sat May 30, 2020 8:56 pm

The civil unrest thread - Page 2 S4tipu10
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Post by steveschneider on Sat May 30, 2020 9:23 pm

Can’t believe what I’m watching. Every major city riots.
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Post by AvgMSUJoe on Sat May 30, 2020 9:34 pm

Fuck... Seattle,Columbus, salt lake City, la, Cleveland, Atlanta... Damn.
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Post by steveschneider on Sat May 30, 2020 9:39 pm

AvgMSUJoe wrote:Fuck... Seattle,Columbus, salt lake City, la, Cleveland, Atlanta... Damn.

Saw it put well when cars are burning in Salt Lake City we are in unchartered territory. Holy fuckin shit.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on Sat May 30, 2020 9:43 pm

Miami, too. Also with outside agitators turning a peaceful protest violent as the sun went down.
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Post by steveschneider on Sat May 30, 2020 9:52 pm

Seems like a perfect storm. Unemployed, nation divided, that horrific video and now people are just letting loose.
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Post by kingstonlake on Sat May 30, 2020 10:01 pm

In Minneapolis at least it seems the rabble rousers on the front line throwing stuff are 75% white. Seems odd that a lot of the graffiti uses the word “white”. I thought this was about cops. Almost to perfect of a display?
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Post by steveschneider on Sat May 30, 2020 10:04 pm

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Post by AvgMSUJoe on Sat May 30, 2020 10:11 pm

Chicago, Rochester NY, Beverly Hills, Nashville... Texas and Colorado national Guard... Damn.
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Post by steveschneider on Sat May 30, 2020 10:21 pm

This is the Munn Field Kegg Riots x a billion
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Post by InTenSity on Sat May 30, 2020 10:24 pm

Grand Rapids has things burning.
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Post by steveschneider on Sat May 30, 2020 10:30 pm

I’m going to wager Boston doesn’t riot tonight.
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Post by Rocinante on Sat May 30, 2020 10:35 pm

Checking in to report that things are pretty calm in Sheridan, WY
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Post by Turtleneck on Sat May 30, 2020 10:38 pm

Rocinante wrote:Checking in to report that things are pretty calm in Sheridan, WY

Did the city shut down the escalator as a precaution?
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Post by Rocinante on Sat May 30, 2020 11:09 pm

How many times do I have to tell you, that’s Casper.
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Post by Other Teams Pursuing That on Sat May 30, 2020 11:25 pm

I’m so over white people telling me how black people should react. Have some sort of awareness.
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Post by MiamiSpartan on Sat May 30, 2020 11:38 pm

Reports from protestors and officials of all races, political persuasions, etc. are talking of outside instigators. If this idea is a hoax, it is an incredible showing unity by protestors and public officials all around the country.

Of course, there's only one person (and his lap dogs) that are claiming that the instigators are left wing.
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Post by Rocinante on Sat May 30, 2020 11:51 pm

Did anyone see the sign language interpreter with the governor of Minnesota? If not, do yourself a favor and check her out.
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Post by Rocinante on Sun May 31, 2020 12:06 am

Also, the Killer Mike press conference in Atlanta... um. Not sure he delivered the actual message the Mayor was looking for. Like on one hand he’s saying it’s time to organize not destroy, on the other hand he’s saying "We want to see the system that sets up for systemic racism burned to the ground."

So which is it?
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Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on Sun May 31, 2020 12:15 am

I watched it. I don't think it was a literal burning to the ground. I think he's right and I was starting to think that way last night. This battle isn't won on the streets. I know many of you aren't local, but does anyone know of a good organization that helps mobilize voting in the inner city? Voter registrations, absentee ballots, etc. I've been looking in Detroit a bit. Best I can find is https://lwvdetroit.org/
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Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on Sun May 31, 2020 12:19 am

Follow up to the above. I was telling my Sis' bf today - I saw some tweets about his speech today, but was waiting for curbside at grocery store, and no time to actually watch. I got back home and a few hours later went to google Killer Mike speech to watch it. You know how you get 3-4 big thumbnails as your top results? First two were from like CBS, maybe ABC "Killer Mike speaks in Atlanta about riots".

3rd one was Fox News. "Killer Mike blames CNN for inciting panic and fear". The civil unrest thread - Page 2 502811600

(It was a part of his speech, but it was a very small one. It was not my takeaway AT ALL)
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Post by Watch Out Pylon! on Sun May 31, 2020 12:49 am

This country hasn't been this fucked up since the god damn Civil war... i think.

Old timers, were the Vietnam protests ever this bad?
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Post by WhiteBoyHatcher on Sun May 31, 2020 1:06 am

Yeah, it is fucked up. This seems like a seminal point in our existence. Not coronavirus.

Really, this is what this Trump Presidency, at its core, is all about, isn't it? I can't speak for everyone, but I think for me, what this guy represented from the beginning that made me so uncomfortable was a division of race. I tried to give him a chance to prove that this was not what he was all about, but after Charlottesville, it was obvious what he was trying to do and what side he was on. It was pretty much at that point that I had to start making uncomfortable decisions about personal relationships. There are a ton of things that come of out this clown's mouth that prove what a shitstain he is on society, but at the core, he represents racism. Knowingly. And he embraces it. Fuck all of your fiscal takes.

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Post by Rocinante on Sun May 31, 2020 1:33 am

There are a lot of people putting informed effort into getting people motivated and registered in the states that are going to make the difference in this election. Getting them the resources they need is a big part of getting this shit done.

Here’s one:

https://votesaveamerica.com/adopt-a-state/

Allows you to pick a potential swing state and give to organizers there.
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Post by DWags on Sun May 31, 2020 2:13 am

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Yeah, it is fucked up. This seems like a seminal point in our existence. Not coronavirus.

Really, this is what this Trump Presidency, at its core, is all about, isn't it? I can't speak for everyone, but I think for me, what this guy represented from the beginning that made me so uncomfortable was a division of race. I tried to give him a chance to prove that this was not what he was all about, but after Charlottesville, it was obvious what he was trying to do and what side he was on. It was pretty much at that point that I had to start making uncomfortable decisions about personal relationships. There are a ton of things that come of out this clown's mouth that prove what a shitstain he is on society, but at the core, he represents racism. Knowingly. And he embraces it. Fuck all of your fiscal takes.


Well said
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Post by Floyd Robertson on Sun May 31, 2020 8:05 am

[tw]1266759404889702400[/tw]
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Post by GRR Spartan on Sun May 31, 2020 8:12 am

Agree with everything WBH posted.

I’ll add that we are seeing other groups like those who have been showing up at G7 meetings. In 1999 Seattle hosted a G7 Conference and there was civil unrest. Using smartphones it’s easier than ever to organize protests. Peaceful and otherwise.

There are groups seeking changes and groups (or individuals) who want to change peaceful protest to violent. Also cynical enough to think there are forces out there willing to start violence so law enforcement/military can justify use of even more force.

The latter being a tactic the Pinkertons used against steelworkers at Carnegie’s Homestead Steelworks in 1892.
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Post by steveschneider on Sun May 31, 2020 8:13 am

When I was watching all this last night and thought any serious and legit peaceful protesting once the sun goes down go home. Pretty predictable that It’s going to turn violent and ugly. While I was watching the Minneapolis riots I thought well it’s just 6PM in Cali wait until it’s dark. Sure enough in just a short while once the sun sets they are looting boutiques on melrose.
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Post by steveschneider on Sun May 31, 2020 8:24 am

Also, the takes where people are calling for the president to address this and bring calm...have they not been paying attention for the last four years?
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Post by MiamiSpartan on Sun May 31, 2020 8:32 am

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:This country hasn't been this fucked up since the god damn Civil war... i think.

Old timers, were the Vietnam protests ever this bad?


While this situation isn't over, I have trouble saying that it is worse than the 60s, though I suppose it depends on what one considers "worse". But if you're talking about fucked up eras, I don't think you can compare this to just the Vietnam protests, as that era also had major civil rights protests and issues (which, though I'm not in a position to judge, I would think were more widespread and worse than this...at least I haven't heard Jesse Jackson or other civil rights leaders say that this is worse...which I do not say to minimize this AT ALL). Most major cities had significant race riots that I think were also worse than these (so far). And then you have the assassinations of JFK, MKL, and RFK, with two of those in the same year. I think the Vietnam protests were so much bigger, but a lot more of them stayed peaceful, at least by the protestors (not huge riots from those, but the police were more heavy handed). But when you add everything in, the 60s were more fucked up IMHO.

I think that you could also look at the anarchist movements of the late 1800s/early 1900s, as another fucked up post-Civil War era. This included riots, bombings, shootings, and a presidential assassination. The smaller size of cities and lack of quick, easy travel would have made those much smaller crowds by comparison, but they also were more deadly. Interestingly, the culmination of those anarchist movements came in the midst of the Spanish Flu pandemic with the 1919 bombings.

It's worth noting that we could only be at the beginning of something much much worse, so time will tell where this ends up stacking up. We came out better (not perfect) after the 60s, so hopefully the same happens here. To quote Marko Ramius, "A little revolution now and then is a healthy thing, don't you think?"
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Post by GRR Spartan on Sun May 31, 2020 8:50 am

Yesterday Saturday May 30 2020, Trump quietly postponed the G7 meeting until September. Germany’s Merkel refused to fly into DC (it’s a COVID-19 hotspot).

I’m reasonably sure his advisers are very aware of the protestors who show up at every G7 meeting and would not be shocked to see it rescheduled until sometime in 2021.
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Post by Turtleneck on Sun May 31, 2020 9:25 am

Not so impressed with the diversity of these protests when I see so many pics of white people involved in violence and property damage. Guess what? One legacy of these protests will probably be even more heavy handed policing of black communities, a burden all the participating white people will not have to share.
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Post by kingstonlake on Sun May 31, 2020 9:56 am

I always get a laugh out of the people who spend 15 seconds talking or two sentences writing about a murder by cops that they agree was a murder. Then 5 minutes and 1600 words on the crime of property destruction and how people should be imprisoned for it.
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Post by steveschneider on Sun May 31, 2020 10:04 am

I guess at this point my question is was enough pressure released that we move forward or do we see more violence. If we see another round of this I have a bad feeling we enter some pretty scary unchartered waters.
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Post by Other Teams Pursuing That on Sun May 31, 2020 10:11 am

kingstonlake wrote:I always get a laugh out of the people who spend 15 seconds talking or two sentences writing about a murder by cops that they agree was a murder. Then 5 minutes and 1600 words on the crime of property destruction and how people should be imprisoned for it.

Plenty of white suburbanites expressing how they think black people should be reacting to this. My favorite.
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Post by kingstonlake on Sun May 31, 2020 10:52 am

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:I always get a laugh out of the people who spend 15 seconds talking or two sentences writing about a murder by cops that they agree was a murder. Then 5 minutes and 1600 words on the crime of property destruction and how people should be imprisoned for it.

Plenty of white suburbanites expressing how they think black people should be reacting to this. My favorite.

I think you should be appreciative that they took time out from showing up at the Capital fully armed, chanting lock her up, and hanging governors in effigy while law enforcement stood by and let them go about their business like they were 10 year old girls selling lemonade.

Show some respect, bruh
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Post by steveschneider on Sun May 31, 2020 10:59 am

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I watched it. I don't think it was a literal burning to the ground. I think he's right and I was starting to think that way last night. This battle isn't won on the streets. I know many of you aren't local, but does anyone know of a good organization that helps mobilize voting in the inner city? Voter registrations, absentee ballots, etc. I've been looking in Detroit a bit. Best I can find is https://lwvdetroit.org/

I agree with Mad Mike's message and the clearest path to change is organizing and voting. Voting is also a long game and it also involves people to actually get out and do it. Problem with voting is young people just don't vote and the highest turnout is 65+. Apathy is a huge problem for this country.
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