Re: The 2020 Presidential campaign.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2020-10-14, 08:07

our christian hero tweeted this last night:

The 2020 Presidential campaign. - Page 24 EkQQBmaWoAArYw1?format=jpg&name=medium

can't imagine that mocking senior citizens is a good campaign strategy anywhere, esp. in Florida and Arizona.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2020-10-14, 08:09

oh - and his usual disgusting, pathetic self aside.. think about how far America has fallen.

we have fallen so far in such a short amount of time that the President of the United States tweets a picture mocking seniors living in a retirement community.. and it's not even 'news'.

America is a broken country.. this will take a generation to fix, if we can fix it at all.

by **steveschneider** 2020-10-14, 09:53

Robert J Sakimano wrote:oh - and his usual disgusting, pathetic self aside.. think about how far America has fallen.

we have fallen so far in such a short amount of time that the President of the United States tweets a picture mocking seniors living in a retirement community.. and it's not even 'news'.

America is a broken country.. this will take a generation to fix, if we can fix it at all.

The other week the repubs were criticizing Biden because he hasn't caught Covid yet and doesn't have any experience with it. We live in some very loony times.

by **steveschneider** 2020-10-14, 09:54

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I would like to have a realistic discussion about what may play out on and after 11/3. I know Miami has talked about the vote going to the House. This article is probably fear-mongering a tad, but it raises some good points. It's worth a read or a skim. The article makes the point, and I think it's pretty fair, that we already know that Trump is going to contest the results. Not only has he already told us, but this is who he is. So we shouldn't still be asking "if", it's more of a "when". Fear monger rating - 3/10 (10/10 being total fear mongering, never going to happen A few takeaways.

There are 3 basic potential stages to this thing.

1. Voter suppression
2. The period in between 11/3 and inauguration
3. Next

Stage 1 has already started obviously. And it bleeds into Stage 2. But I do suspect that we will see some forms of things mentioned in this article. "Proud Boys" types showing up at polling places with ARs to "prevent fraud". This could lead to a lot of chaos, and polling places shutting down. Fear monger rating - 5/10. How widespread will it be? Probably not very. But ballot boxes being taken away, one per county, etc - we know that shit is happening. The more people that vote, the worse it is for the R party, that is basically acknowledged by both parties.

Stage 2 involves the fight to not count/invalidate ballots that come in after 11/3 and/or mail in ballots from some places. This is going to be a prolonged fight. This stage also involves some state legislatures trying to appoint their own electors, which you've probably seen mention of. They can do this if they believe the ballots are invalid and according to this article, the Constitution does not require that the electors reflect the popular vote of the people. 6 battleground states are mentioned, and if some of those states have R led legislature, and R Governors, there is a path to actually accomplishing this from what I'm taking away.

States attempting to appoint their own electors/state results being held up in litigation - Fear monger rating 2/10. Going to happen.

So then what comes next? The article describes a 'labyrinth' of different possibilities. Basically it could become a game of chess. It makes the point that we could have headed down this route in Florida in 2000 if Gore hadn't conceded 2 days before (something - can't remember). DJT will not concede (when, not if).

It seems like the only way to avoid this is:

1. Election Day results overwhelmingly favor Biden getting to 270, thus both parties knowing that any additional ballots that come in are only going to run in his favor.

OR

2. Dems win the Senate and keep the House

Article: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/11/what-if-trump-refuses-concede/616424/

I would be curious to hear thoughts on what happens in Stage 3 from those of you guys who are smart about this stuff.

That last sentence is code for he just wants to hear from Miami, TN or Travis but I didn't let that stop me from posting.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2020-10-14, 10:15

as predicted, I saw that some mainstream media outlets are running with a "smoking gun" story about Hunter Biden and his emails. The 2020 Presidential campaign. - Page 24 502811600

The 2020 Presidential campaign. - Page 24 502811600

by **steveschneider** 2020-10-14, 10:22

Robert J Sakimano wrote:as predicted, I saw that some mainstream media outlets are running with a "smoking gun" story about Hunter Biden and his emails.

Just last week Trump asked the workers at the state department why they haven't arrested Obama, Hillary or Joe. I'm really concerned by the lack of outrage by our citizens over these moves towards authoritarianism.

by **MiamiSpartan** 2020-10-14, 10:26

Robert J Sakimano wrote:our christian hero tweeted this last night:

can't imagine that mocking senior citizens is a good campaign strategy anywhere, esp. in Florida and Arizona.

He also retweeted a new conspiracy theory that three former CIA directors were keeping Bin Laden alive in Iran, and then moved him to Pakistan for the raid that killed him so Obama could take credit when he wanted to.

It would be funny if he wasn't exposing tens of millions of people to such nonsense (some of whom actually believe him!).

by **steveschneider** 2020-10-14, 10:40

MiamiSpartan wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:our christian hero tweeted this last night:

can't imagine that mocking senior citizens is a good campaign strategy anywhere, esp. in Florida and Arizona.

He also retweeted a new conspiracy theory that three former CIA directors were keeping Bin Laden alive in Iran, and then moved him to Pakistan for the raid that killed him so Obama could take credit when he wanted to.

It would be funny if he wasn't exposing tens of millions of people to such nonsense (some of whom actually believe him!).

His words matter and hold a lot of weight. I get so upset when people try to suggest there's another level to this stuff like he's just trolling or he's being funny...He's the POTUS and when he says this stuff I think he's being dead serious.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2020-10-14, 10:50

MiamiSpartan wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:our christian hero tweeted this last night:

can't imagine that mocking senior citizens is a good campaign strategy anywhere, esp. in Florida and Arizona.

He also retweeted a new conspiracy theory that three former CIA directors were keeping Bin Laden alive in Iran, and then moved him to Pakistan for the raid that killed him so Obama could take credit when he wanted to.

It would be funny if he wasn't exposing tens of millions of people to such nonsense (some of whom actually believe him!).

the worst part about it is even if, somehow, Biden can win, I suspect that our christian hero (if he's not in prison) is going to start some sort of news organization whose mission statement will amplify/normalize these extremists.

by **kingstonlake** 2020-10-14, 11:03

Robert J Sakimano wrote:as predicted, I saw that some mainstream media outlets are running with a "smoking gun" story about Hunter Biden and his emails.

I hadn't heard that. Had to Googl it. And I think I watch a fair amount of mainstream media coverage. Honest question Bob. And you're a great American. Can we finally admit we watch mainstream media as much or maybe more than most of us? I mean you dig up stuff I have to Google to find. Asking as a friend.

by **MiamiSpartan** 2020-10-14, 11:39

Regarding WBH's post about the Atlantic article on various Trump strategies to subvert the election, I don't want to quote the whole long post like some people (fucking steve). Lord knows I'm not one to talk about lengthy posts, and I'm sure I'll get lengthy in this case, so here's a link to WBH's post if anyone missed it:

https://spartanswill.forumotion.com/t22299p880-the-2020-presidential-campaign#712036

It's definitely a fear mongering article, and I feel that they leave out some important things in order to help monger that fear. Having said that, as I've often mentioned when these various discussions come up, I think it's good to talk about them and be aware of the possibilities before they happen, even in scenarios where the chances are small.

But these are some of the details that jumped out at me where they ratchet up the fearmongering:

The article says that nothing in the US Constitution says that the electors have to vote the way that the state's popular vote goes. While that's correct, elections are governed by state laws, and many state laws DO say that (around 30 states' electors are bound to what the popular vote says). The SCOTUS has also held up the right of states to bind the electors. So that is disingenuous the way the Atlantic phrased that. However, the penalty for faithless electors are pretty small, if they exist at all (like a fine of $1000 or something), so that's not out of the realm of possibility. But a few states, such as Michigan, consider any vote not cast for the popular winner in the state to be automatically cancelled.

However, if a winner in a state is not determined, then those waters get muddied a lot as the article states. Swing states like WI, MI, PA, and FL all have Republican legislatures, though WI, MI, and PA all have Dem governors, I believe.

The article says that Trump's legal team is already working on post-election day maneuvering, but doesn't say that Biden's is, as well. Especially to counter Trump's possible claims, since Biden is likely to have more votes and be on the defensive in any challenges. I guaran-fucking-tee that Democrat lawyers are hard at work, as well.

Regardless of the fear mongering (some exaggerated, some not) the most important line from the article that all Americans should be aware of is this: "Take agency. An election cannot be stolen unless the American people, at some level, acquiesce."

That is what it comes down to. First, vote. I know a lot of you are major doom and gloomers, but I'm getting more and more of a feeling that this will be a rout in favor of Biden, to the point that any challenges are going to be irrelevant. When Trump needs to challenge 10 states, most of which are landslides, the courts won't care. It won't be like less than 1,000 votes in one state like 2000.

Trump's attempts to claim voter fraud from mail in ballots is a ploy. He has repeatedly said that it's fine where you have to request the ballots, but universal mail in ballots are the problem. Well, only something like 8 states have universal mail in ballots. 5 or 6 of them, IIRC, have been doing it for years, so you can't claim any new issues there. Only 1 of the 8 states with universal mail in ballots being sent is even remotely a swing state (Nevada). My biggest concern about fraud, is fraudulent fraud. That is to say fraud committed by Trump-supporting operatives in order to create "proof" that fraud happened.

When it comes to other possible shenanigans, such as federal troops (which I don't buy) or militias trying to shut down polls/steal ballot boxes, or republican governors/legislatures appointing electors that clearly go against the will of the people in their states, or other such things, I don't think the people will stand for that. And as much as Trump and some of his personal police forces might try to force people to, the military will not stand with Trump.

A civil war of some sort is definitely possible. If Republican governors and legislators defy the will of their people, I think it becomes likely. I've seen it said that we have been in a cold civil war for several years, and there's a good argument for that. We could be headed toward some level of that becoming a hot war. If Biden is declared the winner, I fully expect violence from the right wing extremists. If Trump is declared the winner through actual votes and the process, then I don't think there will be, but if there are shenanigans that subvert democracy in a large way, then I expect massive protests, turning to violence, and who knows where from there.

But I think Biden is ahead by enough that the court battles or even the shenanigans won't matter. I do wonder about Trump's increasing level of desperation, and what he might do. Not just to try to scam the election somehow, but also to just burn down as much of the country as he can out of spite.

tl;dr - "Take agency. An election cannot be stolen unless the American people, at some level, acquiesce."

by **Floyd Robertson** 2020-10-14, 11:43

The Atlantic needs to update that piece and talk about Rs in CA illegally collecting ballots that may never be counted.

by **MiamiSpartan** 2020-10-14, 11:45

kingstonlake wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:as predicted, I saw that some mainstream media outlets are running with a "smoking gun" story about Hunter Biden and his emails.

I hadn't heard that. Had to Googl it. And I think I watch a fair amount of mainstream media coverage. Honest question Bob. And you're a great American. Can we finally admit we watch mainstream media as much or maybe more than most of us? I mean you dig up stuff I have to Google to find. Asking as a friend.

It was the NY Post that did this story, so it's like running on Fox News. I haven't read the article (and doubt I will), but from some comments I've seen from legitimate people on it, it tries to imply a lot more than there actually is, in addition to it all being from questionable sources. So basically a typical tabloid story.

Of course, Bob considers FoxNews, the NY Post, etc. as mainstream media, even though we all know that they're anything but mainstream.

And we all know that Bob watches/reads a ton of Fox, as well as actual mainstream media outlets. Oh wait, no, that's right, his wife just "shows him clips" of things. Like about 9 hours/day worth of clips.

by **MiamiSpartan** 2020-10-14, 11:50

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:

He also retweeted a new conspiracy theory that three former CIA directors were keeping Bin Laden alive in Iran, and then moved him to Pakistan for the raid that killed him so Obama could take credit when he wanted to.

It would be funny if he wasn't exposing tens of millions of people to such nonsense (some of whom actually believe him!).

the worst part about it is even if, somehow, Biden can win, I suspect that our christian hero (if he's not in prison) is going to start some sort of news organization whose mission statement will amplify/normalize these extremists.

I've said that previously (not that it is an original thought of mine, as I've seen it elsewhere, too). The Trump News Network or something like that. His bashing of FoxNews the last couple of months is him laying the groundwork. I suspect that he will partner with OANN, re-brand it under his name, and then try to bring over Hannity and a couple of others from Fox to build their following/reputation.

It may even be as successful as Trump Steaks!

by **MiamiSpartan** 2020-10-14, 11:54

Floyd Robertson wrote:The Atlantic needs to update that piece and talk about Rs in CA illegally collecting ballots that may never be counted.

Yeah, but in California, it's kind of like, "What's the point?" Maybe if there's a contested state seat or congressional seat, but California will still easily go to Biden.

After all the news about it (which I'm sure is even more in California) if anyone is stupid enough to drop their ballots at one of those, especially those that are basically just cardboard boxes that look like something you'd use to vote for prom queen, then they deserve to lose their vote.

by **Floyd Robertson** 2020-10-14, 12:01

MiamiSpartan wrote:
Floyd Robertson wrote:The Atlantic needs to update that piece and talk about Rs in CA illegally collecting ballots that may never be counted.

Yeah, but in California, it's kind of like, "What's the point?" Maybe if there's a contested state seat or congressional seat, but California will still easily go to Biden.

After all the news about it (which I'm sure is even more in California) if anyone is stupid enough to drop their ballots at one of those, especially those that are basically just cardboard boxes that look like something you'd use to vote for prom queen, then they deserve to lose their vote.

Yeah, I guess my point is, what if it gives Republicans in SC an idea? All of a sudden thousands of ballots cast for Jaime Harrison and Joe Biden go missing and we're stuck with Lindsey Graham again. I know people are dumb, but you have to try to educate them.

by **MiamiSpartan** 2020-10-14, 12:07

Floyd Robertson wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:

Yeah, but in California, it's kind of like, "What's the point?" Maybe if there's a contested state seat or congressional seat, but California will still easily go to Biden.

After all the news about it (which I'm sure is even more in California) if anyone is stupid enough to drop their ballots at one of those, especially those that are basically just cardboard boxes that look like something you'd use to vote for prom queen, then they deserve to lose their vote.

Yeah, I guess my point is, what if it gives Republicans in SC an idea? All of a sudden thousands of ballots cast for Jaime Harrison and Joe Biden go missing and we're stuck with Lindsey Graham again. I know people are dumb, but you have to try to educate them.

I hear ya. I'm glad it happened in California and it got national attention, to maybe prevent other states from trying that.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2020-10-14, 12:38

Thanks for the post Miami. I also suspect that a lot of this will be a moot point. But yeah I want to be on top of what is happening and be able to anticipate it so we're not all totally shocked when this stuff goes down.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2020-10-14, 13:47

kingstonlake wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:as predicted, I saw that some mainstream media outlets are running with a "smoking gun" story about Hunter Biden and his emails.

I hadn't heard that. Had to Googl it. And I think I watch a fair amount of mainstream media coverage. Honest question Bob. And you're a great American. Can we finally admit we watch mainstream media as much or maybe more than most of us? I mean you dig up stuff I have to Google to find. Asking as a friend.

I never 'watch' the mainstream media.. maybe if there is some huge catastrophic event (like Hillary's email account), I might tune in for a bit.

I scan headlines.. open articles, chuckle at their predictability.. and post them here.

you're welcome. The 2020 Presidential campaign. - Page 24 969504605

The 2020 Presidential campaign. - Page 24 969504605

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2020-10-14, 13:47

MiamiSpartan wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

I hadn't heard that. Had to Googl it. And I think I watch a fair amount of mainstream media coverage. Honest question Bob. And you're a great American. Can we finally admit we watch mainstream media as much or maybe more than most of us? I mean you dig up stuff I have to Google to find. Asking as a friend.

It was the NY Post that did this story, so it's like running on Fox News. I haven't read the article (and doubt I will), but from some comments I've seen from legitimate people on it, it tries to imply a lot more than there actually is, in addition to it all being from questionable sources. So basically a typical tabloid story.

Of course, Bob considers FoxNews, the NY Post, etc. as mainstream media, even though we all know that they're anything but mainstream.

And we all know that Bob watches/reads a ton of Fox, as well as actual mainstream media outlets. Oh wait, no, that's right, his wife just "shows him clips" of things. Like about 9 hours/day worth of clips.

she's a great American.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2020-10-14, 13:48

MiamiSpartan wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:the worst part about it is even if, somehow, Biden can win, I suspect that our christian hero (if he's not in prison) is going to start some sort of news organization whose mission statement will amplify/normalize these extremists.

I've said that previously (not that it is an original thought of mine, as I've seen it elsewhere, too). The Trump News Network or something like that. His bashing of FoxNews the last couple of months is him laying the groundwork. I suspect that he will partner with OANN, re-brand it under his name, and then try to bring over Hannity and a couple of others from Fox to build their following/reputation.

It may even be as successful as Trump Steaks!

maybe he would hire just Trump University graduates?

(I think Hannity got wait-listed).

by **steveschneider** 2020-10-14, 14:37

Saw a deplorable coughing on libs to own them and he also told them 'black lives don't matter'.

https://www.towleroad.com/2020/10/trump-supporter-robert-brissette/

by **kingstonlake** 2020-10-14, 15:12

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

I hadn't heard that. Had to Googl it. And I think I watch a fair amount of mainstream media coverage. Honest question Bob. And you're a great American. Can we finally admit we watch mainstream media as much or maybe more than most of us? I mean you dig up stuff I have to Google to find. Asking as a friend.
I never 'watch' the mainstream media.. maybe if there is some huge catastrophic event (like Hillary's email account), I might tune in for a bit.

I scan headlines.. open articles, chuckle at their predictability.. and post them here.

you're welcome.

I appreciate your content! The 2020 Presidential campaign. - Page 24 969504605

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2020-10-14, 15:31

kingstonlake wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote: I never 'watch' the mainstream media.. maybe if there is some huge catastrophic event (like Hillary's email account), I might tune in for a bit.

I scan headlines.. open articles, chuckle at their predictability.. and post them here.

you're welcome.

I appreciate your content!

thanks, my dude..

it kinda like cheap beer... it ain't for everyone.

(and I prefer it like that).

by **steveschneider** 2020-10-14, 15:43

My response to post:
https://spartanswill.forumotion.com/t22299p920-the-2020-presidential-campaign#712210

You have too much blind faith in a system that is rotting form within. Democracy is on the decline, it is crumbling and our institutions are under siege. A good read for you...

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/09/08/shawn-rosenberg-democracy-228045

" Democracy is hard work and requires a lot from those who participate in it. It requires people to respect those with different views from theirs and people who don’t look like them. It asks citizens to be able to sift through large amounts of information and process the good from the bad, the true from the false. It requires thoughtfulness, discipline and logic.Unfortunately, evolution did not favor the exercise of these qualities in the context of a modern mass democracy. Citing reams of psychological research, findings that by now have become more or less familiar, Rosenberg makes his case that human beings don’t think straight. Biases of various kinds skew our brains at the most fundamental level. For example, racism is easily triggered unconsciously in whites by a picture of a black man wearing a hoodie. We discount evidence when it doesn’t square up with our goals while we embrace information that confirms our biases. Sometimes hearing we’re wrong makes us double down. And so on and so forth.

Our brains, says Rosenberg, are proving fatal to modern democracy. Humans just aren’t built for it."

There's a reason why authoritarianism is the most popular form of government on the planet. There's a reason why rubes love Trump, he's a strong man that provides simple answers to the complex problems that face them. Water flows to the lowest point and this is where we are headed.

by **steveschneider** 2020-10-14, 17:53

Sick and disgusting

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-teen-rape-allegation-national-enquirer-ronan-farrow-jane-doe-1465652

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2020-10-14, 18:02

steveschneider wrote:Sick and disgusting

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-teen-rape-allegation-national-enquirer-ronan-farrow-jane-doe-1465652

and I bet my mortgage that it is 100% true.

by **MiamiSpartan** 2020-10-14, 18:27

steveschneider wrote:My response to post:
https://spartanswill.forumotion.com/t22299p920-the-2020-presidential-campaign#712210

You have too much blind faith in a system that is rotting form within. Democracy is on the decline, it is crumbling and our institutions are under siege. A good read for you...

Blind faith? Not at all. If I had blind faith, I wouldn't be so adamant about the value of discussing the negative scenarios.

Doom and gloom, "everything is going to turn out bad" attitude? Not that either.

Optimism? Sure. What does it hurt? Whether an election like this, MSU football, or other sports, I'm not typically the type that is afraid to get his hopes up because I might get let down. I'll be equally disappointed either way, and positivity feels better. Negativity feels like shit, IMHO.

by **MiamiSpartan** 2020-10-14, 23:07

Biden's campaign announced that it raised $383 million in September. That's after a record shattering $365m in August. In the August haul, the average donation was about $40, meaning nearly a million donars. Not sure how September breaks out.

Trump by comparison, raised 210m in August, and is cancelling ad schedules in some battle ground states. Using 2016 as a guide, he's waiting for an infusion of a few million from the middle east. Maybe it's UAE and Bharain this year. Egypt may want to lay low after the news that broke today about their 2016 donations.

by **kingstonlake** 2020-10-15, 06:38

In person voting has started, why isn’t Trump screaming voter fraud? Or is he saving that one for election night

by **Floyd Robertson** 2020-10-15, 07:22

I think Biden just wrapped this thing up.

[tw]1316572503616094208[/tw]

by **steveschneider** 2020-10-15, 09:26

MiamiSpartan wrote:
steveschneider wrote:My response to post:
https://spartanswill.forumotion.com/t22299p920-the-2020-presidential-campaign#712210

You have too much blind faith in a system that is rotting form within. Democracy is on the decline, it is crumbling and our institutions are under siege. A good read for you...

Blind faith? Not at all. If I had blind faith, I wouldn't be so adamant about the value of discussing the negative scenarios.

Doom and gloom, "everything is going to turn out bad" attitude? Not that either.

Optimism? Sure. What does it hurt? Whether an election like this, MSU football, or other sports, I'm not typically the type that is afraid to get his hopes up because I might get let down. I'll be equally disappointed either way, and positivity feels better. Negativity feels like shit, IMHO.

There's balance and realism. Saving democracy is hard work and being realistic about how in trouble our democracy is and opposing any threat to it is important.

I watched The Ronald Reagan doc on PBS recently...great watch and it floored me to watch all those Russian summits and great speeches he gave condemning dictatorships and how he stood up to oppression. He also was into the American dream that someone could come here as a refuge and find a pathway to a better life. Sure he had his loony shit like the Star Wars program, he spent, borrowed and drove up deficits but what really popped out at me is his apology he gave in an address for misleading people on the Iran Contra scandal. How f'n refreshing it was to see! He cared about America, honor and integrity. He stood up for our values. That article talks about how important it is for elites and institutions to stand up for democracy. GWB and Jeb should grow a pair, condemn Trump and announce they are voting for Biden. This country needs to get back on track or it's going to be Trumpistan.

Also, fuck NBC news for having a Trump Town Hall. What a disgrace.

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2020-10-15, 09:40

Fuck Reagan.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2020-10-15, 09:43

steveschneider wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:

Blind faith? Not at all. If I had blind faith, I wouldn't be so adamant about the value of discussing the negative scenarios.

Doom and gloom, "everything is going to turn out bad" attitude? Not that either.

Optimism? Sure. What does it hurt? Whether an election like this, MSU football, or other sports, I'm not typically the type that is afraid to get his hopes up because I might get let down. I'll be equally disappointed either way, and positivity feels better. Negativity feels like shit, IMHO.

There's balance and realism. Saving democracy is hard work and being realistic about how in trouble our democracy is and opposing any threat to it is important.

I watched The Ronald Reagan doc on PBS recently...great watch and it floored me to watch all those Russian summits and great speeches he gave condemning dictatorships and how he stood up to oppression. He also was into the American dream that someone could come here as a refuge and find a pathway to a better life. Sure he had his loony shit like the Star Wars program, he spent, borrowed and drove up deficits but what really popped out at me is his apology he gave in an address for misleading people on the Iran Contra scandal. How f'n refreshing it was to see! He cared about America, honor and integrity. He stood up for our values. That article talks about how important it is for elites and institutions to stand up for democracy. GWB and Jeb should grow a pair, condemn Trump and announce they are voting for Biden. This country needs to get back on track or it's going to be Trumpistan.

Also, fuck NBC news for having a Trump Town Hall. What a disgrace.

just the mainstream media doing what they can to promote their savior.

by **steveschneider** 2020-10-15, 09:55

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Fuck Reagan.

He warranted legit criticism, but it's still a fascinating historical time capsule to see how friggin far that party has fallen and country has fallen. They've done complete 180s on so many things that Reagan stood for.

by **steveschneider** 2020-10-15, 10:00

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

There's balance and realism. Saving democracy is hard work and being realistic about how in trouble our democracy is and opposing any threat to it is important.

I watched The Ronald Reagan doc on PBS recently...great watch and it floored me to watch all those Russian summits and great speeches he gave condemning dictatorships and how he stood up to oppression. He also was into the American dream that someone could come here as a refuge and find a pathway to a better life. Sure he had his loony shit like the Star Wars program, he spent, borrowed and drove up deficits but what really popped out at me is his apology he gave in an address for misleading people on the Iran Contra scandal. How f'n refreshing it was to see! He cared about America, honor and integrity. He stood up for our values. That article talks about how important it is for elites and institutions to stand up for democracy. GWB and Jeb should grow a pair, condemn Trump and announce they are voting for Biden. This country needs to get back on track or it's going to be Trumpistan.

Also, fuck NBC news for having a Trump Town Hall. What a disgrace.
just the mainstream media doing what they can to promote their savior.

The take I've seen and makes sense to me, it's conflict within NBC between the two news brands NBC Network and MSNBC....because MSNBC is left leaning the network news pushed for it to look more 'fair and balanced'. Biden's town halls have drawn higher ratings than Trumps. Also, ABC already tried a Trump news piece and it was a ratings flop. This is just NBC network news trying to look fair and balanced.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2020-10-15, 10:02

steveschneider wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote: just the mainstream media doing what they can to promote their savior.

The take I've seen and makes sense to me, it's conflict within NBC between the two news brands NBC Network and MSNBC....because MSNBC is left leaning the network news pushed for it to look more 'fair and balanced'. Biden's town halls have drawn higher ratings than Trumps. Also, ABC already tried a Trump news piece and it was a ratings flop. This is just NBC network news trying to look fair and balanced.

meh - they're just looking to host some sort of WWE-type event in hopes that all of the christian knuckle-draggers will tune in to make themselves feel better about their pathetic lives.

it's that simple.

by **steveschneider** 2020-10-15, 10:07

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

The take I've seen and makes sense to me, it's conflict within NBC between the two news brands NBC Network and MSNBC....because MSNBC is left leaning the network news pushed for it to look more 'fair and balanced'. Biden's town halls have drawn higher ratings than Trumps. Also, ABC already tried a Trump news piece and it was a ratings flop. This is just NBC network news trying to look fair and balanced.
meh - they're just looking to host some sort of WWE-type event in hopes that all of the christian knuckle-draggers will tune in to make themselves feel better about their pathetic lives.

it's that simple.

Well if that's the case, it's a miscalculation because Biden gets better ratings. Maybe they want to sell some ad revenue for male enhancement pills, my pillows, Frito Lay snacks, energy drinks and rated M video games.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2020-10-15, 10:33

steveschneider wrote:
steveschneider wrote:I have to tip the cap to WBH, he called a civil war a while back and expressed his concerns. I thought it was far fetched but I don't think he's that farr off the mark. I'm very concerned about political violence in the coming days. Shit is pretty damn unsettling and have I had to pretty much tune it out as best as possible. Kind of hard to accept that an NBC reality tv star could lead us to this point but here we are.

And on that note I'm retiring from the bin for a while. Cameron and Travis will be happy with that...Nordic was right dwelling on this shit just isn't healthy. I'll come back election night and until then I'm going to focus on art and leisure.

by **MiamiSpartan** 2020-10-15, 10:48

steveschneider wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote: meh - they're just looking to host some sort of WWE-type event in hopes that all of the christian knuckle-draggers will tune in to make themselves feel better about their pathetic lives.

it's that simple.

Well if that's the case, it's a miscalculation because Biden gets better ratings. Maybe they want to sell some ad revenue for male enhancement pills, my pillows, Frito Lay snacks, energy drinks and rated M video games.

First of all, NBC did a town hall with Biden last week. They're legally required to offer it to Trump. Same with ABC doing Biden after doing a Trump town hall a couple of weeks ago.

The uproar is about doing it at the same time as Biden's. On the one hand, I get it, as they had this time slot open for the debate. On the other hand, they shouldn't have acquiesced to Trump's request to do it at the same time.

Biden may have missed an opportunity too, though.
The Debate commission said that they would hold the debate (virtually) even if only one candidate showed up. Biden could have done that. But what I'm not sure about is if all of the networks would have still had to carry it.

I think Trump gets better ratings on this. His fans are rabid and will tune in and drool over him, and a good number of others will tune in to watch an expected train wreck. Biden's will be pretty vanilla. No one needs to be convinced by him at this point and there won't be any weirdness to tune in for. Having said that, there's an online campaign to get people to tune in to Biden just to get more ratings. We will see though. It is irrelevant to the election though.

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