How do we cure "trumpism"?

It's obviously some sort of mass hysteria... An entire political party based on stupid and false conspiracy theories of one way or another. Followers projecting values on a meally brained moron who's truth is polar opposite of what they believe it is...
Is it smashing social media? Forcing them to be subscription based as opposed to ad based, would that do it?
How about reinstate the fairness doctrine? I suppose that doesn't mean as much now-a-days...
Encouraging more unions? Back in the day GM guys "voted their job" as opposed to guns or whatever.
Change public education to require a social media class... Teaching idiots at a young age that facebook is BS and evil?

Get rid of the internet and cable news. I think that's the only way.

Trump has finished the job Limbaugh started in 1988 when what is now Clear Channel syndicatedhis show nationally after Reagan abolished the FCC's fairness doctrine.  

For years Limbaugh promoted being an antagonistic jerk was okay because you were thumbing your nose at power.  Trump completed the job and its morphed to being an asshole who thtreatens and intimidates as redeemable qualities for leadership.

Trumpism isn't going anywhere so long as Trump is beathing and able to be propped up to rant into a TV camera.  The 40% of Americans who vote for him today see his vision of intimidation of enemies through legal and physical means as a way to stay in power.

What we've seen is Trump is the dog who caught the bus and doesn't know what the hell to do.  But Trump has been a reliable pawn for the ultra "conservatives" and The Federalist Society by nominating people from the lists given to his administration for Federal Judges and SCOTUS Justices.

Vote him out. Today is your chance.

Education

Psychedelics

After today, it will just magically disappear.

Force anyone over 55 to take a social networking class. I'd say shut down websites that peddle in false news, but that will start an argument that ABC, CBS and the bigger networks lie as well and people will be looking for that one slipup from them to shut them down.
Overturn the Supreme Court decision that considers corporations to be people.

In Grand Rapids antisemites spelled Trump across the graves of Jewish people. Says everything that that word is used to convey hatred.

AvgMSUJoe wrote:It's obviously some sort of mass hysteria... An entire political party based on stupid and false conspiracy theories of one way or another. Followers projecting values on a meally brained moron who's truth is polar opposite of what they believe it is...
Is it smashing social media? Forcing them to be subscription based as opposed to ad based, would that do it?
How about reinstate the fairness doctrine? I suppose that doesn't mean as much now-a-days...
Encouraging more unions? Back in the day GM guys "voted their job" as opposed to guns or whatever.
Change public education to require a social media class... Teaching idiots at a young age that facebook is BS and evil?

My friend who is a labor lawyer and leans Republican has admitted that workers right have probably been gutted to much. Granted he's 30 years older than me and has made his mint but he admitted it's gone to far.

He believes this is a large part of the problem. However that's his world so that's his bubble. Don't know if that's completely true but he makes decent arguments.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Get rid of the internet and cable news. I think that's the only way.

I see it as much deeper than this.

I think it is a matter of economics, urbanization and demographics, and then technology.

Economic inequality is real. We can talk about unemployment and the stock market all we want, but wages remain stagnant and gains not well distributed. Job and business growth is absurdly geographically condensed. Some parts of the country are shut out of economic growth.  There is also drastic differences in distribution of wealth, especially along race and gender lines. Automation and outsourcing are also part of the economic story. How we work is changing and traditional middle class job are disappearing. People seem to be increasingly working one or more low paying jobs, while others are writing algorithms for Amazon or Facebook.

Urbanization and demographics are the biggest issue to me. The country is urbanizing, and with that urban areas are increasingly embracing more cosmopolitan values. This means a single egalitarian society with high degrees of freedom of expression are most important. This runs up againt traditional values, usually most important in rural and suburban areas, that are more hierarchical; where gender is not fluid and men and women have specific roles, etc.

This relates to demographics, which are clearly shifting in the U.S. There is racial anxiety in this country, and I personally think it trumps economic anxiety. Some whites, whether they admit it or not, are concerned about the racial balance of power in this country. This is why some get irrationally mad when a maple syrup product changes its branding. They see it as a signal that the racial balance of power is eroding and with it their privilege to control politics, society, and economics. This is why when communities of color make simple demands to be treated with respect and dignity, some get incredibly upset. Without explicitly stating it, they are saying "we will not be replaced" (some actually explicitly say it!). They want to protect the social and racial hierarchy, and this obviously speaks to the immigration issue as well.

You are right about media. It plays a role. But I also wonder if it has something to do with how the media is situated in a hyper competitive media market. Do we sacrifice quality news for whatever generates revenue for shareholders? Maybe we should be just as upset with capitalism and how it has undone quality reporting. This might be evidence that competition does not always make everything better. Technology has also created a society where we expect instant gratification. I can order something from Amazon and have it tomorrow. We can make instantaneous financial transactions, receive instantaneous information, and even receive critical software for work and home digitally. Everything moves fast except politics and Steve's Prius. By design, change in American politics in incremental and a slow moving process. This is frustrating for many people.

I think we have a lot of issues to sort out if we want to eradicate Trumpism.

UBI

It won't happen overnight, regardless of the outcome of this election.  But this election (not just Biden, but down ballot) can send a signal to Republicans that the people reject this, and that they will be marginalized if they stick to it.  But it needs to be continued over a few election cycles.

Trumpism is not synonymous with Republicanism or Conservatism.  I don't think that real Republicans liked how Trump behaved or what some of his policies are, but they've shown themselves to be spineless cowards (in the case of politicians) or when it comes to voters, blind partisans that really don't know what issues cause them to support whoever has the "R" next to them, they just do because they're Republicans and think they're supposed to.

As someone said, Trumpism will be a factor as long as Trump is alive and/or out of jail.  Trumpism is a cult of personality, and I don't think that Ivanka, Don Jr, Eric, Tucker Carlson, or anyone else in a high profile position has the personality to effectively take over that mantle.

It is also important to note that as Turtleneck was discussing, there is a changing demographic in this country, that is shifting more left and more diverse.  Even the electoral collage bias that some of you rail on is likely to shift in the next 10-20 years (maybe not to a full blue bias, but to at least less of a red bias).  That's a big part of the desperation that Republicans have this year.  It's their last chance to hold on to power and then try to create laws, gerrymandering, etc., to help them stay in power against the changing demographics.  That, I believe, is a bigger motivation for the GOP establishment than Trump himself.

Turtleneck wrote:

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Get rid of the internet and cable news. I think that's the only way.

I see it as much deeper than this.

I think it is a matter of economics, urbanization and demographics, and then technology.

Economic inequality is real. We can talk about unemployment and the stock market all we want, but wages remain stagnant and gains not well distributed. Job and business growth is absurdly geographically condensed. Some parts of the country are shut out of economic growth.  There is also drastic differences in distribution of wealth, especially along race and gender lines. Automation and outsourcing are also part of the economic story. How we work is changing and traditional middle class job are disappearing. People seem to be increasingly working one or more low paying jobs, while others are writing algorithms for Amazon or Facebook.

Urbanization and demographics are the biggest issue to me. The country is urbanizing, and with that urban areas are increasingly embracing more cosmopolitan values. This means a single egalitarian society with high degrees of freedom of expression are most important. This runs up againt traditional values, usually most important in rural and suburban areas, that are more hierarchical; where gender is not fluid and men and women have specific roles, etc.

This relates to demographics, which are clearly shifting in the U.S. There is racial anxiety in this country, and I personally think it trumps economic anxiety. Some whites, whether they admit it or not, are concerned about the racial balance of power in this country. This is why some get irrationally mad when a maple syrup product changes its branding. They see it as a signal that the racial balance of power is eroding and with it their privilege to control politics, society, and economics. This is why when communities of color make simple demands to be treated with respect and dignity, some get incredibly upset. Without explicitly stating it, they are saying "we will not be replaced" (some actually explicitly say it!). They want to protect the social and racial hierarchy, and this obviously speaks to the immigration issue as well.

You are right about media. It plays a role. But I also wonder if it has something to do with how the media is situated in a hyper competitive media market. Do we sacrifice quality news for whatever generates revenue for shareholders? Maybe we should be just as upset with capitalism and how it has undone quality reporting. This might be evidence that competition does not always make everything better. Technology has also created a society where we expect instant gratification. I can order something from Amazon and have it tomorrow. We can make instantaneous financial transactions, receive instantaneous information, and even receive critical software for work and home digitally. Everything moves fast except politics and Steve's Prius. By design, change in American politics in incremental and a slow moving process. This is frustrating for many people.

I think we have a lot of issues to sort out if we want to eradicate Trumpism.

The down fall of reporting runs deep, TV News becoming for profit divisions of the networks, consolidation of most local news papers under two or three corporate owners, the internet model (free news) has starved the industry of revenue. Also a good chunk of the public has an irrational hatred of the media so here we are. I've said all the way back since 2016 print journalism is where it's at and it's something worth supporting and standing up for.

I think it’s a question better answered tomorrow tbh

Cameron wrote:UBI

Not a bad answer. I think Andrew Yang is going to be looked back upon as a visionary I think his idea of UBI is inevitable. Even the Fox News audience is captivated by the idea. Impossible to live on minimum wage anymore.

steveschneider wrote:

Cameron wrote:UBI

Not a bad answer. I think Andrew Yang is going to be looked back upon as a visionary I think his idea of UBI is inevitable. Even the Fox News audience is captivated by the idea. Impossible to live on minimum wage anymore.

The major barrier to Yang is dipshits like you who get all boned up over Joe fucking Biden and the like. We could have had president Yang in January 2021, but Boomers love Biden.

steveschneider wrote:In Grand Rapids antisemites spelled Trump across the graves of Jewish people. Says everything that that word is used to convey hatred.

Was that on the local news up in Mass Steve?

Cameron wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

Not a bad answer. I think Andrew Yang is going to be looked back upon as a visionary I think his idea of UBI is inevitable. Even the Fox News audience is captivated by the idea. Impossible to live on minimum wage anymore.

The major barrier to Yang is dipshits like you who get all boned up over Joe fucking Biden and the like. We could have had president Yang in January 2021, but Boomers love Biden.

Still time left for you to go out and vote for Jill Stein or whatever loser the Green Party is running this year.

Nordic wrote:

steveschneider wrote:In Grand Rapids antisemites spelled Trump across the graves of Jewish people. Says everything that that word is used to convey hatred.

Was that on the local news up in Mass Steve?

Washingon Post and my jewish friend texted it to me this morning. He was livid.

[tw]1323367085964185600[/tw]

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:[tw]1323367085964185600[/tw]

I hope they catch the pieces of shit that did that.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/11/09/why-trump-cant-afford-to-lose

Have read a good chunk of this one. It's incredible after his failed casino that cost over 1 billion and all his other subsequent failures that he some how played a top executive on tv and then later became the most powerful person in America.

I think the best way to stop Trumpism is to understand how this guy escapes accountability and reality every step of the way.

I'm convinced the dems gotta dumb it down quite a bit.

Not one stormy daniels ad. Not a single ad attacking trump's $750 tax bill. Nothing about calling the military losers...

All the Rs do is throw bullshit against the wall and it works for close to 50%...."What has biden done for the working man??? Nothing..." "Say what you want about trump but he has our back"... Da fuck that mean?

AvgMSUJoe wrote:I'm convinced the dems gotta dumb it down quite a bit.

Not one stormy daniels ad. Not a single ad attacking trump's $750 tax bill. Nothing about calling the military losers...

All the Rs do is throw bullshit against the wall and it works for close to 50%...."What has biden done for the working man??? Nothing..." "Say what you want about trump but he has our back"... Da fuck that mean?

That’s funny because I think they need to run a real progressive and fully fund PUBLIC education and regulate the shit out of social media. Instead of dumbing down the message, how about we smarten up the populace.

Rocinante wrote:

AvgMSUJoe wrote:I'm convinced the dems gotta dumb it down quite a bit.

Not one stormy daniels ad. Not a single ad attacking trump's $750 tax bill. Nothing about calling the military losers...

All the Rs do is throw bullshit against the wall and it works for close to 50%...."What has biden done for the working man??? Nothing..." "Say what you want about trump but he has our back"... Da fuck that mean?

That’s funny because I think they need to run a real progressive and fully fund PUBLIC education and regulate the shit out of social media. Instead of dumbing down the message, how about we smarten up the populace.

Of course that would be the prudent thing to do, but since the dems can't get the control to do that without winning these goddamn elections, they gotta go dumb/low before they can go smart.

Just run a progressive and hammer hammer hammer on climate, health care, and education. The progressive position on those issues is very popular, people will warm to it if you don't let them get distracted.

It would help if they would stop tying culture war issues to the Green New Deal, that is my biggest criticism of the progressive wing. Climate, health care, education. Relentlessly focus on those, the rest will sort itself out.

Cameron wrote:run a progressive and hammer hammer hammer.

Where’s your sickle you pinko commie?

It's in the shed out back. Why, do you need to borrow it?

Yes, comrade

Trumpism is an interesting dynamic, it works and it won't go away now that it has.  We'll see it under a new name in 2024 (Cotton for example) if Trump loses this election.  It seems stunningly hard to counter - they have their own information bubble, it's divorced from reality, it embraces conspiracy theory, and it's based in fear, and that leads to blaming those who are different.  We've seen this with religion, race, gender, sexuality, turning Democrats into socialists, etc.  And what it does is stir up that voter to such a degree that they show up to the polls in stunning numbers.  

This article is a few years out but it's true.  It's Dunning-Kruger and Terror Management Theory.  His rise is explained through psychology.  It's not a mystery....

Psychology Today

Reality won't counter Trumpism as there is always another path in a conspiracy theory.  Qanon is here to stay. Fear works as it taps into base psychology.  You won't get this voter to embrace a different information bubble.  Heck, if Trump loses I'd fully expect him to create a new news network....Trump at 9 pm every night, Don Jr. at 8 pm, the Late Show with Ivanka, etc.  You counter Trumpism not by eliminating it, but by presenting a more compelling counter-narrative that resonates with more Americans.  That isn't coming from the Democratic Party right now.  And the GOP seems to have sold their soul a bit.  I'm not seeing a political figure on that level right as Trump right now.  And it's needed badly.....

If trump loses id fully expect him to run in 2024 assuming he’s still alive

AvgMSUJoe wrote:I'm convinced the dems gotta dumb it down quite a bit.

Not one stormy daniels ad. Not a single ad attacking trump's $750 tax bill. Nothing about calling the military losers...

All the Rs do is throw bullshit against the wall and it works for close to 50%...."What has biden done for the working man??? Nothing..." "Say what you want about trump but he has our back"... Da fuck that mean?

I saw plenty of ads highlighting his taxes and that he called the military losers and suckers.

I didn't see any about Stormy though.

Motown Spartan wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:If trump loses id fully expect him to run in 2024 assuming he’s still alive

Or in prison.

Or hiding in Russia.

MiamiSpartan wrote:
I saw plenty of ads highlighting his taxes and that he called the military losers and suckers.

I didn't see any about Stormy though.

None in Michigan.

So... Thinking more this morning... One of the key components in "trumpism" is the toxic masculinity of a simple teenager. Wonder if the dems get someone polar opposite of the typical "coastal dem" to represent in the media, how many of those votes could they siphon off by the message??

Isn't "Stone cold steve austin" a liberal? Gimme a hell yeah.

If Austin tells the morons what they call "socialism" is actually geared at making their lives better... Then smashes a beer on his head... Maybe the poor rural will actually consider it?