The changing landscape of MSU Football

Can we talk about this for a minute? I would welcome a discussion amongst the grown ups in the room as most of tSwill seems to have its' collective head on pretty straight.

Mel is moving the program forward into the modern era of College football. It's necessary, and it's the right time for it. But how do you feel about it?

We know the almighty god to which everyone in the sport has bowed down to in the modern era has been the $$. We know the dirty secrets about "student" athletes and bowl game directors and recruiting and fundraising etc. Acknowledged. However, are we naïve in believing that MSU Football under Coach Dantonio did not completely sell their soul to the sport, a la the SEC? That we remained above board when it came to some of the foul recruiting practices, the processing of kids off of the roster, the kids going to class and being presented with a real opportunity to pursue a valuable major and degree? I don't think so. We were not alone in that - many of the schools in the B1G have done things that way. I think that part of what was so endearing to many about the Coach D era was that he found a way to compete at or near the highest level without succumbing to many of those practices.

That is changing. It has already changed. We are a football factory now. Kids are being processed. The emphasis is on recruiting, not character and development. I will not be surprised if we do get a "football major", as Wags has told us that Saban wanted back in the late 90s. Where is that a-hole Clarett's Folly? CF knew the inside of a college football program and he advocated for us to take the next step. He WANTED us to cheat. Well CF we may be taking the first steps down that road, my friend.

I also know there are some of you up there on your high horses who believe the entire thing is immoral and probably have already tuned it out. I'm not that far gone yet, I still think this is a great opportunity for a lot of kids to fulfill their dreams and goals, and given the current infrastructure it's the only avenue in many cases for them to pursue those dreams and goals. I think they should be compensated but I recognize that they still have a choice in the matter and they choose to play a game that they love so I'm not climbing up on that horse yet.

But while I do believe it's a necessary step to move MSU football forward, a little bit of my personal passion for it is dying for certain.

What are your thoughts? CF come back.

I’m willing to just watch games on Saturdays and not think too hard about it wbh

Because the alternative is to think hard about it and the game and system will proceed with or without me just the way it is going to no matter what I do.

Unless the wrong person starts the game thread that does make a difference

As someone who has seen the results of probation and sanctions on the field twice in his lifetime, I'm not anxious to see a third time. I really hope we do this above board as much as possible. Winning a natty would be awesome, but I really don't want to competely sell our souls to do it.

I'll talk about a few areas of modernizing that I've found to be really good and perfectly clean.

The Gruff Sparty? Think back to when Holllis wanted to introduce that ridiculous update to the Spartan helmet logo. MSU has great branding options and that's the best you could come up with? The Gruf sparty was fucking sweet and I don't know who was involved in the decision but tip of the cap to whoever pulled that off.

Also, his online game is pretty damn good. His messaging during the pandemic and post game pressers has been pretty damn good. I thought a lot of the coaches were cringe worthy and just down right embarrassing overstepping their University Presidents.  Also, modernizing? Adding an African American coach in business that could use the diversity. All positives and making a difference.

Also, I just a hunch but I feel like he will give MSU one of the better offensive lines we've seen in a while and I think that will result in some really fun games to watch.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:I’m willing to just watch games on Saturdays and not think too hard about it wbh

Because the alternative is to think hard about it and the game and system will proceed with or without me just the way it is going to no matter what I do.

Unless the wrong person starts the game thread that does make a difference

I don't think about it when I'm watching the games necessarily Travis. But I don't see myself caring as much. Maybe that's just life priorities shifting, as well. In some ways maybe it's in part an excuse to de-prioritize it.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:I’m willing to just watch games on Saturdays and not think too hard about it wbh

Because the alternative is to think hard about it and the game and system will proceed with or without me just the way it is going to no matter what I do.

Unless the wrong person starts the game thread that does make a difference

I don't think about it when I'm watching the games necessarily Travis. But I don't see myself caring as much. Maybe that's just life priorities shifting, as well. In some ways maybe it's in part an excuse to de-prioritize it.

It’s probably a combination of life priorities and also is sucking at the sport. I’ve found the same thing (not caring as much as I used to) and I think it’s a little of both.

Or it’s all that we suck. I’m not sure. Once you’ve tasted the mountain top of football circa 2013-2015 it’s hard to get riled up again about games that could be the difference between the Duke’s Mayo Bowl and the Pinstripe Bowl.

Moderninzing PTII

Look at LSU. They won last year and then forfeited a bowl this year.

In short hell yes I'm all for cheating and I think it's crazy to stand against it.

Cameron wrote:Kentucky steve thinks we should cheat. Shocking.

Fucking steve...

Fucking Steve is a Calipari fan. Are you surprised?

Cameron wrote:Kentucky steve thinks we should cheat. Shocking.

Fucking steve...

Cash, cars and condominiums. Have zero problem with it.

duffy munn wrote:

Cameron wrote:Kentucky steve thinks we should cheat. Shocking.

Fucking steve...

Fucking Steve is a Calipari fan. Are you surprised?

Duffy, I view you as a great spartan but we disagree on this which is alright. The times have changed and society evolves. I bet public polling among Spartan nation has moved more favorably toward cheating and will continue to move in that direction.

PS you will be proud of me I don’t cheat on golf. I count all the missed two feet putts and failures to exit a sand trap. Go Green!

Great. Another thread hijacked by Steve.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Great. Another thread hijacked by Steve.

You use the word 'modernizing' in the thread title and you expect me to stay out?

steveschneider wrote:

duffy munn wrote:

Cameron wrote:Kentucky steve thinks we should cheat. Shocking.

Fucking steve...

Fucking Steve is a Calipari fan. Are you surprised?

Duffy, I view you as a great spartan but we disagree on this which is alright. The times have changed and society evolves. I bet public polling among Spartan nation has moved more favorably toward cheating and will continue to move in that direction.

PS you will be proud of me I don’t cheat on golf. I count all the missed two feet putts and failures to exit a sand trap. Go Green!

Problem is that when the LSU's of the world get caught cheating it's a 1 year speed bump. When the MSU's of the world get caught cheating it's program crushing for a decade.

Heat Miser wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

Duffy, I view you as a great spartan but we disagree on this which is alright. The times have changed and society evolves. I bet public polling among Spartan nation has moved more favorably toward cheating and will continue to move in that direction.

PS you will be proud of me I don’t cheat on golf. I count all the missed two feet putts and failures to exit a sand trap. Go Green!

Problem is that when the LSU's of the world get caught cheating it's a 1 year speed bump. When the MSU's of the world get caught cheating it's program crushing for a decade.

This is a solid point.

Heat Miser wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

Duffy, I view you as a great spartan but we disagree on this which is alright. The times have changed and society evolves. I bet public polling among Spartan nation has moved more favorably toward cheating and will continue to move in that direction.

PS you will be proud of me I don’t cheat on golf. I count all the missed two feet putts and failures to exit a sand trap. Go Green!

Problem is that when the LSU's of the world get caught cheating it's a 1 year speed bump. When the MSU's of the world get caught cheating it's program crushing for a decade.

Back to the Perles model. We've come full circle. Expect Mel to flirt with every open pro gig until he's gone.

Kids can transfer and play right away. That has more to do with players leaving than any new philosophy.

You either get with progress or get ran over by it

AvgMSUJoe wrote:

Heat Miser wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

Duffy, I view you as a great spartan but we disagree on this which is alright. The times have changed and society evolves. I bet public polling among Spartan nation has moved more favorably toward cheating and will continue to move in that direction.

PS you will be proud of me I don’t cheat on golf. I count all the missed two feet putts and failures to exit a sand trap. Go Green!

Problem is that when the LSU's of the world get caught cheating it's a 1 year speed bump. When the MSU's of the world get caught cheating it's program crushing for a decade.

Back to the Perles model. We've come full circle. Expect Mel to flirt with every open pro gig until he's gone.

Why? What evidence is their that he's even wanted by the pros? His 7-11 college record as a head coach? I have zero worries about CMT and the pros.

I don’t have nightmares about CMT leaving. He’ll be 49 in Jan 2021 and he has four years left on his $5M/ yr contract.
There aren’t a lot of NFL teams that pay HC’s more nor a lot of college HC jobs.

CMT has to recruit and retain players that fit his vision of what he wants from players. He also needs to be flexible and willing change things up.

Fitzgerald got a new OC in 2020 who changed the Wildcat fender. Saban let Sarkisian change the ‘Bama offense away from the ground game to more passing .One reason Malzhan got fired at Auburn is the innovative offense he brought with him in 2013 was figured out by SEC DC’s and wasn’t nearly as effective in his last 3 seasons.

Good news for CMT is it may be easier to improve quicker with the transfer portal and the portal is going to expose players whose buy in to CMT’s methods sooner than later.

steveschneider wrote:

Heat Miser wrote:

Problem is that when the LSU's of the world get caught cheating it's a 1 year speed bump. When the MSU's of the world get caught cheating it's program crushing for a decade.

This is a solid point.

I think that is why he made the point, Steve.

Heat Miser wrote:

AvgMSUJoe wrote:
Back to the Perles model. We've come full circle. Expect Mel to flirt with every open pro gig until he's gone.

Why? What evidence is their that he's even wanted by the pros? His 7-11 college record as a head coach? I have zero worries about CMT and the pros.

No, point being Perles went after the big time recruits with questionable tactics. Was just throwing the nfl thing out for all the kids.

steveschneider wrote:

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Great. Another thread hijacked by Steve.

You use the word 'modernizing' in the thread title and you expect me to stay out?

I think WBH means something more substantive, Steve. When you say it, you just mean "moar reverses!"

Some of you are extrapolating the point out a little bit. I'm not saying we're cheating right now and I'm not guaranteeing you that we will have bag men within a year or two. Also not saying we're cutting kids and not honoring scholarships. Just saying if you read between the lines, Tuck wants to become a football factory. With his background and experience that is to be expected. We are on the beginning stepping stones of that path in my opinion. How far we go in employing all of the tactics at our disposal is yet to be determined.

Turtleneck wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

You use the word 'modernizing' in the thread title and you expect me to stay out?

I think WBH means something more substantive, Steve. When you say it, you just mean "moar reverses!"

I enjoyed reading the OP post and a few of the takes in this thread. I stand by my contributions.

AvgMSUJoe wrote:

Heat Miser wrote:

AvgMSUJoe wrote:
Back to the Perles model. We've come full circle. Expect Mel to flirt with every open pro gig until he's gone.

Why? What evidence is their that he's even wanted by the pros? His 7-11 college record as a head coach? I have zero worries about CMT and the pros.

No, point being Perles went after the big time recruits with questionable tactics. Was just throwing the nfl thing out for all the kids.

Haven't seen CMT go after too many "big time recruits" yet.

Do the best for the kids. If you are paying players to show up, don't let them talk to anyone east of Harrison. Keep the detroit rags away from the program if anything nefarious is gonna happen and move on.

What do you mean Heat?

What do you mean Joe?

What have you all observed so far and what direction do you think we're heading? How do you feel about the approach? Do you agree or disagree?

Wags, CF, Matty, Nord, CB, any others - I would love to hear your take on the above, as well.

InTenSity wrote:Do the best for the kids. If you are paying players to show up, don't let them talk to anyone east of Harrison. Keep the detroit rags away from the program if anything nefarious is gonna happen and move on.

This is the hardest part to pull off,.msu doesn't have the media support

I’d love to add but I don’t have much. I have ideas. I’ve been close enough to have witnessed payoffs I agree with much of what’s been said and disagree with some. In his usual manner of not much to say but pretty damn accurate when he says a little Heat is spot on.

We fall perfectly in the area of “let’s show the country we mean business”. We’re not too big to fail and we’re big enough to get peoples attention. That’s not only done in college sports that’s done in every industry. Pick out a middle size company doing something wrong and make an example of them.

What that does is make the middle companies shy. They won’t do the crazy shit the big companies do because they just aren’t too big to fail. I may have heard a deal mixed by Bobby Williams once because it involved getting money into the hands of a judge in Philadelphia or maybe he was a friend of the court. Too risky. PSU was too prevalent there. If we were Bama would we worry? Shit. I do t know. Getting money to a kid is definitely done by every school. Just don’t take a superstar away from a school by swooping in at the last minute with a ton of cash. Keep your low four stars and don’t interfere with their kids.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:What do you mean Heat?

What do you mean Joe?

What have you all observed so far and what direction do you think we're heading? How do you feel about the approach? Do you agree or disagree?

Wags, CF, Matty, Nord, CB, any others - I would love to hear your take on the above, as well.

What do you mean? The next 5* CMT pulls in will be the first. I don't really get where any of this is coming from. Relative to everyone else outside of Stanford/Northwestern, I'd say the program has been pretty clean. CMT is getting kids from the portal. Kids are leaving for the portal. So what? That's the new normal. Kids aren't forced into 4+ years of servitude under one program anymore.

Bump this when CMT pulls a Freeze era Ole Miss class & then we'll talk.

Heat Miser wrote:

AvgMSUJoe wrote:
No, point being Perles went after the big time recruits with questionable tactics. Was just throwing the nfl thing out for all the kids.

Haven't seen CMT go after too many "big time recruits" yet.

Didn’t he just poach a kid from usc

BTW...did you all see the shit Mullen just got caught for a Florida? If MSU pulled that shit there would be multi-part investigative reporting from the Detroit rags asking if MSU/CMT is dirty.

LSU had an actual bag man at the Natty game in plain sight on video handing out cash. One year speed bump. tOSU/Tressel gate scandal? One year speed bump. The get Urbs and go undefeated in their "probation" season.

The aforementioned Ole Miss/Freeze mess? Set them back a decade+. Like it or not, we're in the Ole Miss bucket. Maybe the high end of that bucket, but still that bucket.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

Heat Miser wrote:

AvgMSUJoe wrote:
No, point being Perles went after the big time recruits with questionable tactics. Was just throwing the nfl thing out for all the kids.

Haven't seen CMT go after too many "big time recruits" yet.

Didn’t he just poach a kid from usc

That's a very generous description. I'm sure the Trojans will survive the loss of a 4* LB. Their class is currently ranked #14. The kid's older brother had already entered the portal from USC, so he was going somewhere other than USC anyway.

Also, USC hasn't been USC since Pete Carrol left. One of the few examples of a "Blue Blood" actually getting whacked pretty good by the NCAA. Though their own ineptitude & bad luck in coaching/AD hires has also has contributed.

So, anyone think jumping into the deep end with the SECs and OSUs of world will actually work at MSU?
Look at scum, recruit great, highest paid coaches and CRAP.

AvgMSUJoe wrote:So, anyone think jumping into the deep end with the SECs and OSUs of world will actually work at MSU?
Look at scum, recruit great, highest paid coaches and CRAP.

No, we will get busted and the death penalty. If we are dirty, the blue bloods will rat on us a la Woody in the 70s, and the NCAA won't look the other way like they do with the blue bloods.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

AvgMSUJoe wrote:So, anyone think jumping into the deep end with the SECs and OSUs of world will actually work at MSU?
Look at scum, recruit great, highest paid coaches and CRAP.

No, we will get busted and the death penalty. If we are dirty, the blue bloods will rat on us a la Woody in the 70s, and the NCAA won't look the other way like they do with the blue bloods.

You’re probably right but for the record Clemson was Irrelevant ten years ago.

Also what has tucker done that dantonio didn’t besides maybe being a bit more honest with the media in terms of things like this. The whole Dantonio being an angel thing was a bit overplayed imo.

If Nordic posted anymore he would hate this post but what can ya do

kingstonlake wrote:
You’re probably right but for the record Clemson was Irrelevant ten years ago.

Shit is cyclical. Texas and USC seemed unstoppable at one point. As long as we can be in that cycle and every decade or so do something big, I'm ok.

AvgMSUJoe wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:
You’re probably right but for the record Clemson was Irrelevant ten years ago.

Shit is cyclical. Texas and USC seemed unstoppable at one point. As long as we can be in that cycle and every decade or so do something big, I'm ok.

Yup. I’m on board with that