2024 Presidential campaign

by **Floyd Robertson** 2021-01-20, 07:42

More like Make America Criminal Again, amiright?

by **kingstonlake** 2021-01-20, 07:45

Y'ALL DONE SET ME UP FOR A COMEBACK

by **Rocinante** 2021-01-20, 14:27

Give me a week to not think about anything, please.

by **Watch Out Pylon!** 2021-01-20, 15:28

Rocinante wrote:Give me a week to not think about anything, please.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2021-01-20, 16:10

Rocinante wrote:Give me a week to not think about anything, please.

You had your week in late November sorry if you missed it. Back to the grind asshole.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2021-02-04, 09:36

I was thinking about some of this stuff yesterday. I would be curious to hear the thoughts of some of our more politically savvy posters.

What is the mainstream GOP's plan to move forward? They definitely have one. They do not want to give Trump room to breathe for 2024. They don't want him elected. They don't like him, they can't control him and even though they would have been happy to retain power, even the most evil of them probably recognize that he tried to bring democracy to an end, even if they would never admit it. Yet, they obviously made a conscious decision to not distance themselves from him at this point in time because they can't lose his cult base. Does anyone disagree with any of the above? Pretty common sense right?

So the next question is how do they plan to marry the two lines of thinking here - how do they not alienate the cult base, while keeping Trump from controlling the party going forward and in 2024? They must have a plan - to keep the Trump voters but to also bring back the fiscal/moderate conservatives who realize that Trump is too far gone. What is that plan?

And I guess the next question is - can the left go on offense here rather than just sitting back and playing defense? Is there a way to put them on the spot and make a choice while wounds are still fresh? Split them up? I don't know. Seems like that should be a focal point. I'm sure the evil cabal has a plan. What is the plan to combat that? I have no faith in humanity in this country anymore.

by **Floyd Robertson** 2021-02-04, 09:51

[tw]1357051018740121606[/tw]

by AvgMSUJoe 2021-02-04, 09:58

They are doing it now... McConnell calls MAGA lady "wacky" but they create this "vote" to strip her power (which is an easy way for each of them to hide behind some rationale of not doing it)... Cake and eat it to.

They painted themselves in the corner. Trump has them by the short and curlies with him threatening the MAGA party in 2024. Every R knows they lose their general election if their base is split. They can't really run from his nutty base... they just have to placate Trump (argue against his impeachment) while they publicly "distance" themselves from wacky MAGA (without actually DOING anything).

The left should start with the attack ads now stating the Rs are killing the $2000 stimulus but gave that much to rich peeps in tax cuts AND they ALL supported the riot with their subsequent votes... but they wont, because their messaging team assumes some level of smarts/memory for the voting public....(but there isn't any because as we all know, America is a very stupid country.)

by AvgMSUJoe 2021-02-04, 10:01

Floyd Robertson wrote:[tw]1357051018740121606[/tw]

I suppose that is what Rs do. How many of your dumb R friends who are generally well meaning, normal people are hesitant to vote D because of the "socialist"?

Rs push the left fringe to the front and it works for them.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2021-02-04, 10:08

Floyd Robertson wrote:[tw]1357051018740121606[/tw]

Thanks for posting. But it doesn't seem like it's enough. Need to build on it and scale it up.

AvgJoe - on the R side of things, I see what they're doing but that's not really a "plan" or at least the plan I'm talking about. The harder part is marrying the two factions. What are they going to do when Trump starts riling his cult up for a run? They MUST have a plan. I'm sure Mitch does.

by **NigelUno** 2021-02-04, 10:14

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:
Floyd Robertson wrote:[tw]1357051018740121606[/tw]

Thanks for posting. But it doesn't seem like it's enough. Need to build on it and scale it up.

AvgJoe - on the R side of things, I see what they're doing but that's not really a "plan" or at least the plan I'm talking about. The harder part is marrying the two factions. What are they going to do when Trump starts riling his cult up for a run? They MUST have a plan. I'm sure Mitch does.

I'd guess the plan is to abandon hope for the WH and bet on winning Senate and House seats with the MAGAs and Qs (using some voter suppression tactics).

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2021-02-04, 10:21

NigelUno wrote:
WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

Thanks for posting. But it doesn't seem like it's enough. Need to build on it and scale it up.

AvgJoe - on the R side of things, I see what they're doing but that's not really a "plan" or at least the plan I'm talking about. The harder part is marrying the two factions. What are they going to do when Trump starts riling his cult up for a run? They MUST have a plan. I'm sure Mitch does.

I'd guess the plan is to abandon hope for the WH and bet on winning Senate and House seats with the MAGAs and Qs.

So just focus on 2022? Interesting. I don't know - I am far from an expert but I don't see it. If they ignore the 2024 picture and appease the folks you're talking about they are setting the stage for Trump to run again. Am I overestimating how badly they don't want that? Maybe, I don't know. I really think they don't.

by **steveschneider** 2021-02-04, 10:28

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I was thinking about some of this stuff yesterday. I would be curious to hear the thoughts of some of our more politically savvy posters.

What is the mainstream GOP's plan to move forward? They definitely have one. They do not want to give Trump room to breathe for 2024. They don't want him elected. They don't like him, they can't control him and even though they would have been happy to retain power, even the most evil of them probably recognize that he tried to bring democracy to an end, even if they would never admit it. Yet, they obviously made a conscious decision to not distance themselves from him at this point in time because they can't lose his cult base. Does anyone disagree with any of the above? Pretty common sense right?

So the next question is how do they plan to marry the two lines of thinking here - how do they not alienate the cult base, while keeping Trump from controlling the party going forward and in 2024? They must have a plan - to keep the Trump voters but to also bring back the fiscal/moderate conservatives who realize that Trump is too far gone. What is that plan?

And I guess the next question is - can the left go on offense here rather than just sitting back and playing defense? Is there a way to put them on the spot and make a choice while wounds are still fresh? Split them up? I don't know. Seems like that should be a focal point. I'm sure the evil cabal has a plan. What is the plan to combat that? I have no faith in humanity in this country anymore.

Can you please specify who you want to hear from? Every time you write that I feel like you are just asking me.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2021-02-04, 10:48

I think it pretty much means everyone but you and me Steve. Well not really - TN, Travis, Miami, GRR, etc. Might be missing a few. Floyd doesn't say much but I think he knows what's up.

by **kingstonlake** 2021-02-04, 11:06

If Trump thinks a MAGA party lines his pockets more than getting in line with the GOP, he'll do it, and probably will. Can you imagine the position it puts the GOP in to get the MAGA party endorsement for their candidate in the general election? He has far more to gain financially by splitting and not sharing with the GOP. He will turn on them and bend them over like he does everyone else.

He will see it as a branding opportunity. It's right out of his playbook.

by **Floyd Robertson** 2021-02-04, 11:17

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I think it pretty much means everyone but you and me Steve. Well not really - TN, Travis, Miami, GRR, etc. Might be missing a few. Floyd doesn't say much but I think he knows what's up.

I don't say much because I'm usually playing war while the others you mentioned are playing bridge or poker when it comes to politics.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2021-02-04, 11:19

kingstonlake wrote:If Trump thinks a MAGA party lines his pockets more than getting in line with the GOP, he'll do it, and probably will. Can you imagine the position it puts the GOP in to get the MAGA party endorsement for their candidate in the general election? He has far more to gain financially by splitting and not sharing with the GOP. He will turn on them and bend them over like he does everyone else.

He will see it as a branding opportunity. It's right out of his playbook.

That would be splendid. If that happens I hope the Dems would do what they can to encourage or even assist in that split.

Then again I should go back to my lack of faith in humanity. If that split happens, the MAGAs would probably win in 22 and 24 and eventually take over the world.

by **MiamiSpartan** 2021-02-04, 12:07

I don't think they are ready to distance themselves from Trump or keep him away from 2024. I think they hope he gets sick and/or dies and can't run, but they'd rather have him run if it means that he can at least help with seats in Congress. If they wanted to keep him away, there would be no question about him being convicted in the Senate, but instead it is unlikely that even 17 out of 50 Republicans will vote to do that. They need his crazies.

I had mentioned this elsewhere recently, but I think that their short term plan is to do their best to desperately hold on to the extremist fringe that were otherwise non-voting (at least for major party candidates) until Trump brought them into the fold. Without holding on to them, they are toast in 2022 and 2024. I think they need to keep them on board with the GOP first and foremost, and then when the general elections come around they will ignore their support of the whackos like Greene, and just relentlessly hammer the socialist claims, while picking apart every little step that Biden takes (justified or not), and hope that that sways just enough people in key areas. A Presidents' party almost always lose seats in the first midterm elections, so they're hoping that enough of that shift happens that they can withstand the bashing that they will receive for supporting the nutcases.

But they stand zero chance of gaining ground, and probably little chance of even holding serve, without keeping the votes of the radical right. And that's a long term problem for them, due to the changing demographics in the country.

by **MiamiSpartan** 2021-02-04, 12:14

It's also worth noting that in recent weeks there were rumblings about Trump starting a "Patriot Party". Next thing you know, 45 Senators vote that it would be unconstitutional to try him (or technically voted that they should have a debate about the constitutionality, but effectively it was done as an overture to Trump). Then McCarthy goes down on Trump at Mar a Lago and Gaetz goes to Wyoming to bash Cheney for voting to impeach where he puts Don Junior on speaker for everyone to hear. Since then, the talk of this Trump Patriot Party has gone away. After all, if Trump even took as little as 5% away from the Republican Party, they'd be absolutely fucked in every battleground race.

by **Cameron** 2021-02-04, 12:54

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I think it pretty much means everyone but you and me Steve. Well not really - TN, Travis, Miami, GRR, etc. Might be missing a few. Floyd doesn't say much but I think he knows what's up.

by **kingstonlake** 2021-02-04, 14:08

MiamiSpartan wrote:I don't think they are ready to distance themselves from Trump or keep him away from 2024. I think they hope he gets sick and/or dies and can't run, but they'd rather have him run if it means that he can at least help with seats in Congress. If they wanted to keep him away, there would be no question about him being convicted in the Senate, but instead it is unlikely that even 17 out of 50 Republicans will vote to do that. They need his crazies.

I had mentioned this elsewhere recently, but I think that their short term plan is to do their best to desperately hold on to the extremist fringe that were otherwise non-voting (at least for major party candidates) until Trump brought them into the fold. Without holding on to them, they are toast in 2022 and 2024. I think they need to keep them on board with the GOP first and foremost, and then when the general elections come around they will ignore their support of the whackos like Greene, and just relentlessly hammer the socialist claims, while picking apart every little step that Biden takes (justified or not), and hope that that sways just enough people in key areas. A Presidents' party almost always lose seats in the first midterm elections, so they're hoping that enough of that shift happens that they can withstand the bashing that they will receive for supporting the nutcases.

But they stand zero chance of gaining ground, and probably little chance of even holding serve, without keeping the votes of the radical right. And that's a long term problem for them, due to the changing demographics in the country.

Do you really think Trump cares what the GOP wants? Sure he needed them when in office. He has a political brand now. Hell.leverage everyone for his own good.

by **steveschneider** 2021-02-04, 14:21

Cameron wrote:
WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I think it pretty much means everyone but you and me Steve. Well not really - TN, Travis, Miami, GRR, etc. Might be missing a few. Floyd doesn't say much but I think he knows what's up.

You are a $2000 + $600 = $2000 guy and you made his cut. Congrats.

by **Cameron** 2021-02-04, 14:39

steveschneider wrote:
Cameron wrote:

You are a $2000 + $600 = $2000 guy and you made his cut. Congrats.

Check again, steve. I didn't make his cut either. He wanted a smart, reasonable take. He didn't ask you because you're not smart. He didn't ask me because I'm not reasonable. But at least one of the two of has a shred of self awareness. I'll let you figure out which of us that is.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2021-02-04, 14:45

Cam I would be curious to your take, didn't leave you off on purpose.

I'm not trying to be a dick to Steve. It's quite obvious that some of us don't know what the hell we're talking about and are swinging from the hip a little bit - relatively new to this political arena, and only became engaged because the last 4-6 years have shown us that the GOP is essentially an evil cabal.

by **Cameron** 2021-02-04, 15:27

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Cam I would be curious to your take, didn't leave you off on purpose.

I'm not trying to be a dick to Steve. It's quite obvious that some of us don't know what the hell we're talking about and are swinging from the hip a little bit - relatively new to this political arena, and only became engaged because the last 4-6 years have shown us that the GOP is essentially an evil cabal.

My take is that I'm not nearly as convinced as you that the GOP actually has a plan. Trump is chaos, and they have allowed Trumpism to parasitize their party too fully to break with him now. They can't afford to alienate his voters, but they can't appeal to both the Q crowd and the swing voters they need to win general elections. If they have any plan at all, it's probably to be the obstructionist permanent minority party until Trump dies and they can go back to deficit hawking and warmongering full time.

by **MiamiSpartan** 2021-02-04, 16:01

kingstonlake wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:I don't think they are ready to distance themselves from Trump or keep him away from 2024. I think they hope he gets sick and/or dies and can't run, but they'd rather have him run if it means that he can at least help with seats in Congress. If they wanted to keep him away, there would be no question about him being convicted in the Senate, but instead it is unlikely that even 17 out of 50 Republicans will vote to do that. They need his crazies.

I had mentioned this elsewhere recently, but I think that their short term plan is to do their best to desperately hold on to the extremist fringe that were otherwise non-voting (at least for major party candidates) until Trump brought them into the fold. Without holding on to them, they are toast in 2022 and 2024. I think they need to keep them on board with the GOP first and foremost, and then when the general elections come around they will ignore their support of the whackos like Greene, and just relentlessly hammer the socialist claims, while picking apart every little step that Biden takes (justified or not), and hope that that sways just enough people in key areas. A Presidents' party almost always lose seats in the first midterm elections, so they're hoping that enough of that shift happens that they can withstand the bashing that they will receive for supporting the nutcases.

But they stand zero chance of gaining ground, and probably little chance of even holding serve, without keeping the votes of the radical right. And that's a long term problem for them, due to the changing demographics in the country.

Do you really think Trump cares what the GOP wants? Sure he needed them when in office. He has a political brand now. Hell.leverage everyone for his own good.

Of course not, and if it sounded like I was inferring that, it wasn't intentional. Trump doesn't give two shits about what the GOP wants, or what kind of success they have. But they care what he thinks, and he knows that. He wants to own them, to have them pay fealty to him, and will threaten (and has threatened) supporting their opponents in the primaries, and possibly even starting his own party if they cross him.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2021-02-04, 16:27

Appreciate the thoughts. Where I'm coming from is I believe MM thinks he is the Republican Party (when it's actually DJT). I think he still controls the Senate as their leader, and basically it all trickles down from there. I have read a few articles about how much Mitch truly detests Trump behind the scenes. I know Mitch is extremely smart and calculating. I do not believe that he doesn't have a plan. I'm sure he does in his fat turtle brain. And that he has talked to other allies who are like-minded. Regardless of if they do or if they don't, it would seem like driving the division within the party right now is definitely a huge opportunity. It would be a shame to let it go to waste and hope that they self destruct.

Kinda goes back to my assuming the worst position. I don't assume they will fracture themselves. I don't assume that a moderate will arise who they will all rally behind. I assume that they will come together and become bigger and more deplorable and the changing demographics of our country won't impact things as soon as we need them to.

by AvgMSUJoe 2021-02-04, 16:42

Best outcome for America... Trump threatens "Patriot Party" until the Rs kill the impeachment, then his ego and greed lead him to start it up for the midterms. Split the vote.
We finally get honest debate regarding real problems... America is Great Again.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2021-02-04, 17:07

Then he dies.

by **Rocinante** 2021-02-04, 17:25

Maybe I’ve already said this but I can’t remember anymore. The Rs are in control of a large majority of swing state legislatures and will use gerrymandering to rig the house for minority rule for the foreseeable future if something isn’t done. They also have a built in advantage in the senate due to the rural-urban divide in representation. They may be perfectly happy losing presidential elections and having gridlock. HR1 and S1 are Dem bills to radically expand voting access. They are needed badly. The 2024 presidential election is small potatoes right now.

by **kingstonlake** 2021-02-04, 20:29

MiamiSpartan wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

Do you really think Trump cares what the GOP wants? Sure he needed them when in office. He has a political brand now. Hell.leverage everyone for his own good.

Of course not, and if it sounded like I was inferring that, it wasn't intentional. Trump doesn't give two shits about what the GOP wants, or what kind of success they have. But they care what he thinks, and he knows that. He wants to own them, to have them pay fealty to him, and will threaten (and has threatened) supporting their opponents in the primaries, and possibly even starting his own party if they cross him.

I think there’s still a reckoning coming for the GOP. Their position isn’t tenable. I don’t feel you can have it both ways with educated moderate mainstream suburbanites (especially female) and have the Qunt types like Greene and the fucking lunatics from Jan 6th. Something’s gotta give. I think ole Mitch and the power brokers have a plan. It wouldn’t surprise me if there is behind the scenes activity ensuring trump has to confront serious legal troubles. The kind that lets them save face and make a clean break.

by **GRR Spartan** 2021-02-04, 22:43

The GOP will move further right nationally.

At the state level th donors who witheld donating to Trump in 2020 are going to be opening thir wallets for state legisaltive races and governorships for 2022.

The GOP majority state legislatures are going to make it harder to vote. If they have a GOP governor who will sign legislation before 2022 to reduce the ways one can vote. In MI it won't be a surprise to see another challenge to redistricting by a group other than the state legislature.

I'm guessing they think with the 3 Trump appointees the MI GOP is hoping to reverse the 2016 ballot proposal. If that can't be done they will propose a state constitutional ammendment that will change the Electoral College vote from winner take all to be split on who wins each congressional district.

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