East Palestine OH Train

This whole story is pretty fucked up, if you’ve heard about it this week amid the media solely focusing on scary balloons. I’m not going to pretend to be a chemist or something that can tell you that this is so fuckin bad, but the reports of people’s pets just sort of dying combined with people being told that it’s totally fine to come back to town makes me think that there might be some long term ramifications from our giant chemical fuck up near a population center.

Maybe pipelines aren't so bad after all.

RQA wrote:Maybe pipelines aren't so bad after all.

Pipelines for vinyl chloride?

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

RQA wrote:Maybe pipelines aren't so bad after all.

Pipelines for vinyl chloride?

Why yes vinyl chloride is transported by pipeline as well as by trucks and trains.

RQA wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Pipelines for vinyl chloride?

Why yes vinyl chloride is transported by pipeline as well as by trucks and trains.

No, pretty sure that’s not correct. Sure hope you’re not just being a troll here rqa

Hazel Kreuz, vice president of global inorganic chemicals at Chemical Market Analytics, a consulting firm, estimates that up to 10% of the vinyl chloride made in the US is transported rather than derivatized on-site. “A small amount is exported, and some of it does move either by barge or by rail to locations that are not right at the vinyls facility for polymerization,” she says.

https://cen.acs.org/safety/Safety-questions-remain-Ohio-train/101/i6

https://www.intratec.us/chemical-markets/vinyl-chloride-price

"Vinyl chloride is transported via pipeline, and in railroad tank cars and tanker ships."

RQA wrote:https://www.intratec.us/chemical-markets/vinyl-chloride-price

"Vinyl chloride is transported via pipeline, and in railroad tank cars and tanker ships."

Ah thank God our resident vinyl chloride expert is still mercifully here for now.

Anyway where is it transported by pipeline? I mean, I realize that the random website says it is. But many other say otherwise. You see, I’m enough of a grown up to acknowledge that I know nothing about vinyl chloride, so please, show me.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Ah thank God our resident vinyl chloride expert is still mercifully here for now.

Anyway where is it transported by pipeline? I mean, I realize that the random website says it is. But many other say otherwise. You see, I’m enough of a grown up to acknowledge that I know nothing about vinyl chloride, so please, show me.

I haven't claimed to be a vinyl chloride expert, now have I?  

Intratec is hardly a "random website".   They are well known within the chemical and petroleum industry as a provider of pricing information and commodity costs.

Here is another one.   Although you probably consider the national trade organization for those in the chlorine business just a random website.

https://bookstore.chlorineinstitute.org/pamphlet-172-liquid-vinyl-chloride-monomer-vcm-pipelines.html?Session_ID=0f87f0f78c6f39de2b9182377a07230b

Provides recommendations on the design, construction, operation, and maintenance of carbon steel pipelines that transport liquid Vinyl Chloride Monomer (VCM). The recommendations are applicable to pipelines that terminate outside the VCM shipper’s property or crosses property not owned by the shipper or receiver of the VCM.

Trapper Gus wrote:

RQA wrote:

I haven't claimed to be a vinyl chloride expert, now have I?  

Intratec is hardly a "random website".   They are well known within the chemical and petroleum industry as a provider of pricing information and commodity costs.

Here is another one.   Although you probably consider the national trade organization for those in the chlorine business just a random website.

https://bookstore.chlorineinstitute.org/pamphlet-172-liquid-vinyl-chloride-monomer-vcm-pipelines.html?Session_ID=0f87f0f78c6f39de2b9182377a07230b

Provides recommendations on the design, construction, operation, and maintenance of carbon steel pipelines that transport liquid Vinyl Chloride Monomer (VCM). The recommendations are applicable to pipelines that terminate outside the VCM shipper’s property or crosses property not owned by the shipper or receiver of the VCM.

Your argument is that instead of having a very localized train car carrying a deadly substance there should be hundreds of miles of pipeline running across the country with that deadly substance in it?

Not only that, but said pipeline already exists, despite no one knowing where it is

Dudes a clown

Sounds pretty fucked.

[tw]1624885466469175298[/tw]

Ohio you say? I guess this was a documentary.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Your argument is that instead of having a very localized train car carrying a deadly substance there should be hundreds of miles of pipeline running across the country with that deadly substance in it?

No, my argument is that dangerous liquids are safer to transport by pipeline than by train or tanker truck.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Not only that, but said pipeline already exists, despite no one knowing where it is

Dudes a clown

https://olinchloralkali.com/about-us/texas-pipeline/

About Olin’s Texas Operation’s Pipelines
Olin owns and operates more than 200 miles of pipelines in Brazoria County in and around Freeport, Texas.
Except for Public Right of Way crossings, Olin’s pipelines are located within Dow’s Texas Operations facility. The property is owned and managed by Dow Chemical in Freeport, Texas.
Olin utilizes ground patrol to monitor potential dangers, along with construction and excavation activities.
Olin’s pipelines transport both liquid and gas products with the vast majority of products being hydrocarbons, which are combustible if released and exposed to an ignition source.
Products transported include:
Acetone
Anhydrous HCL
Brine (Saltwater)
Caustic
Chlorine Gas
Isopropyl Benzene (Cumene) (Liquid)
Hydrogen
Oxygen
Phenol
Vinyl chloride

RQA wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Not only that, but said pipeline already exists, despite no one knowing where it is

Dudes a clown

https://olinchloralkali.com/about-us/texas-pipeline/

About Olin’s Texas Operation’s Pipelines
Olin owns and operates more than 200 miles of pipelines in Brazoria County in and around Freeport, Texas.
Except for Public Right of Way crossings, Olin’s pipelines are located within Dow’s Texas Operations facility. The property is owned and managed by Dow Chemical in Freeport, Texas.
Olin utilizes ground patrol to monitor potential dangers, along with construction and excavation activities.
Olin’s pipelines transport both liquid and gas products with the vast majority of products being hydrocarbons, which are combustible if released and exposed to an ignition source.
Products transported include:
Acetone
Anhydrous HCL
Brine (Saltwater)
Caustic
Chlorine Gas
Isopropyl Benzene (Cumene) (Liquid)
Hydrogen
Oxygen
Phenol
Vinyl chloride

"Except for Public Right of Way crossings, Olin’s pipelines are located within Dow’s Texas Operations facility."

NigelUno wrote:
"Except for Public Right of Way crossings, Olin’s pipelines are located within Dow’s Texas Operations facility."

So I guess that means vinyl chloride is not transported by pipeline after all.

I don't pretend to be a chemist either and I am not an economist but the volume of vinyl chloride manufactured and used is not likely enough to justify long distance pipelines. I am familiar with some pipelines for industrial/synthetic materials but these are usually short distances between separate plants by one company where vinyl chloride (for example) is made at plant A but is then used at other plants B and C elsewhere on the complex. Obviously some plants may be owned by different companies and materials may be transported longer distances but there will never be a network of vinyl chloride pipelines criss-crossing the USA.

If there were only one two inch pipeline (that's a very small pipeline) from the Beaver County Shell ethylene cracker plant to Los Angeles the amount of vinyl chloride sitting in the pipeline is greater than the total amount of vinyl chloride produced in the world per year.

Vinyl chloride itself is not that toxic except at high concentrations which could occur close to the crash. It is a carcinogen. It is incredibly explosive with a low flash point. So that thing was going to blow up one way or another in all likelihood.

RQA wrote:

NigelUno wrote:
"Except for Public Right of Way crossings, Olin’s pipelines are located within Dow’s Texas Operations facility."

So I guess that means vinyl chloride is not transported by pipeline after all.

It means exactly what it says. Keep trying/trolling though.

Rick Saunders wrote:I don't pretend to be a chemist either and I am not an economist but the volume of vinyl chloride manufactured and used is not likely enough to justify long distance pipelines. I am familiar with some pipelines for industrial/synthetic materials but these are usually short distances between separate plants by one company where vinyl chloride (for example) is made at plant A but is then used at other plants B and C elsewhere on the complex. Obviously some plants may be owned by different companies and materials may be transported longer distances but there will never be a network of vinyl chloride pipelines criss-crossing the USA.

If there were only one two inch pipeline (that's a very small pipeline) from the Beaver County Shell ethylene cracker plant to Los Angeles the amount of vinyl chloride sitting in the pipeline is greater than the total amount of vinyl chloride produced in the world per year.

Vinyl chloride itself is not that toxic except at high concentrations which could occur close to the crash. It is a carcinogen. It is incredibly explosive with a low flash point. So that thing was going to blow up one way or another in all likelihood.

Great post, but RQA is the most educated man on the Internet (self-proclaimed, of course) so you are wrong about this and everything else you have ever posted that RQA did not agree with.

Turtleneck wrote:

Rick Saunders wrote:I don't pretend to be a chemist either and I am not an economist but the volume of vinyl chloride manufactured and used is not likely enough to justify long distance pipelines.  I am familiar with some pipelines for industrial/synthetic materials but these are usually short distances between separate plants by one company where vinyl chloride (for example) is made at plant A but is then used at other plants B and C elsewhere on the complex. Obviously some plants may be owned by different companies and materials may be transported longer distances but there will never be a network of vinyl chloride pipelines criss-crossing the USA.

If there were only one two inch pipeline (that's a very small pipeline) from the Beaver County Shell ethylene cracker plant to Los Angeles the amount of vinyl chloride sitting in the pipeline is greater than the total amount of vinyl chloride produced in the world per year.

Vinyl chloride itself is not that toxic except at high concentrations which could occur close to the crash.  It is a carcinogen.  It is incredibly explosive with a low flash point.  So that thing was going to blow up one way or another in all likelihood.

Great post, but RQA is the most educated man on the Internet (self-proclaimed, of course) so you are wrong about this and everything else you have ever posted that RQA did not agree with.

1.  Not the most educated man on the Internet, just the most educated around here

2. If you care to look, I gave Rick's post a thumbs up.  

NigelUno wrote:

RQA wrote:

So I guess that means vinyl chloride is not transported by pipeline after all.

It means exactly what it says. Keep trying/trolling though.

So we know that Olin has pipelines (200 miles of them) that cross public right-of-ways. And we know that among the products they transport includes vinyl chloride.

Why is it so important to liberals that vinyl chloride not be transported in pipelines anyway?

Maybe the Russian Quisling Agent needs to be delivering those chemicals in 55 gallon drum from the back of his alleged pick up.

Much like our government's been ignoring highway bridges and water systems, they've been ignoring rail for decades. The only thing surprising about the Ohio debacle is that something like it hadn't happened recently with the same toxic results.

RQA wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

It means exactly what it says.  Keep trying/trolling though.  

So we know that Olin has pipelines (200 miles of them) that cross public right-of-ways.   And we know that among the products they transport includes vinyl chloride.

Why is it so important to liberals that vinyl chloride not be transported in pipelines anyway?

200 miles of pipeline are on their property.  Except for some that cross public right of ways.  You seem to be inferring that all 200 miles are used for transport from their site elsewhere.  And their pipelines are used for 10 products.  Not just 1.

Please stop trolling.

RQA wrote:Maybe pipelines aren't so bad after all.

[tw]1626212863273766914[/tw]

RQA wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:

Great post, but RQA is the most educated man on the Internet (self-proclaimed, of course) so you are wrong about this and everything else you have ever posted that RQA did not agree with.

1.  Not the most educated man on the Internet, just the most educated around here

2. If you care to look, I gave Rick's post a thumbs up.  

1. That's a weird assumption on a board full of well-educated people.

2. I am not interested in where you put your thumb.

NigelUno wrote:

RQA wrote:Maybe pipelines aren't so bad after all.

[tw]1626212863273766914[/tw]

It would be great to have a database of shit like this to refer to every time the GOP gets all horny for deregulation.

Cameron wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

[tw]1626212863273766914[/tw]

It would be great to have a database of shit like this to refer to every time the GOP gets all horny for deregulation.

We'd need our own server farm to keep it all of it on.

[tw]1626251365512015873[/tw]

ruh roh

Are derailments contagious?

Turtleneck wrote:Are derailments contagious?

In terms of the consequences due to lack of maintenance, yes.

The fuck. That rail company would be buying my house and paying my moving expenses. No way do I live in that town, or raise a family. especially a young family.

This is America dwags and they’re a corporation. The shareholders profits matter more than you and your family’s painful deaths. You’ll get nothing and like it.

DWags is cute when he thinks Norfolk Southern cares about his house and family, or that he stands a chance in the legal system against them. I applaud his worldview. He is good dude, but corporations are pretty evil these days.

Turtleneck wrote:DWags is cute when he thinks Norfolk Southern cares about his house and family, or that he stands a chance in the legal system against them. I applaud his worldview. He is good dude, but corporations are pretty evil these days.

One lawsuit has already been filed. They (and their insurance carrier) will pay. Just a matter of how much.

NigelUno wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:DWags is cute when he thinks Norfolk Southern cares about his house and family, or that he stands a chance in the legal system against them. I applaud his worldview. He is good dude, but corporations are pretty evil these days.

One lawsuit has already been filed. They (and their insurance carrier) will pay. Just a matter of how much.

Remember when equifax gave all of our private data away to whomever and there was a lawsuit and we all got $5.21 compensation? Lol fun times

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

One lawsuit has already been filed. They (and their insurance carrier) will pay. Just a matter of how much.

Remember when equifax gave all of our private data away to whomever and there was a lawsuit and we all got $5.21 compensation? Lol fun times

I'll take the over.

I keep recalling that since the 1980 Presidential election there have been pols telling us that US businesses and corporations are over taxed and over regulated,

The part of the pitch is business knows their challenges  better than any government entity and if they can self-regulate better than having interference caused by rules comng from the DOT, EPA, FDA and FEC.

How’s that working out?

NigelUno wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Remember when equifax gave all of our private data away to whomever and there was a lawsuit and we all got $5.21 compensation? Lol fun times

I'll take the over.

Is it your contention that the legal system is fair and does not favor corporations, or are you being disagreeable just to be disagreeable?