Biden's taxes on unrealized gains

by TravelinMan Fri Mar 10, 2023 1:05 pm

IB4 "You're not rich, why do you care?" and "The rich can afford it."

This is just.... I don't even know. SMH. We're making this shit WAY too complicated. This is a really bad idea.

https://taxfoundation.org/biden-billionaire-tax-unrealized-capital-gains/

by **kingstonlake** Fri Mar 10, 2023 1:32 pm

I've always found it's best to see who funds these .orgs

Any help on this one?

by **Trapper Gus** Fri Mar 10, 2023 1:33 pm

TravelinMan wrote:IB4 "You're not rich, why do you care?" and "The rich can afford it."

This is just.... I don't even know. SMH. We're making this shit WAY too complicated. This is a really bad idea.

https://taxfoundation.org/biden-billionaire-tax-unrealized-capital-gains/

I feel like there is a bunch more to this narrative that is not discussed by an author who clearly has a negative point of view regarding this proposal, so cannot really comment, other than to note this would probably close the "borrowing by using unrealized capital gains as assets" which is how some very wealthy people avoid taxes, and also would seemingly cause capital gains to be taxed regularly, thus taxing the gains before they become part of an untaxed pass through inheritance.

by **Cameron** Fri Mar 10, 2023 2:04 pm

I haven't read the article yet, not sure if I will later or not. But as Trapper alluded to, the mega rich fuckers have devised countless ways to remain fabulously wealthy without ever "realizing" virtually any gains at all.

You can't write the tax code with loopholes big enough to drive a Brinks truck through, pay absurdly low rates that make working people jealous, crow about paying what the law says to pay, and then also squeal like a stuck pig whenever anyone proposes closing some of those loopholes or otherwise compensating for them with new tax provisions.

Reminds me of when Romney was running and some of his financial info came out and we learned how low his effective tax rate is/was. "Of course I only pay as little as I have to, only an idiot pays MORE in taxes than they have to." Motherfucker, how many millions and billions have you and vampires like you paid in lobbying to ensure that those loopholes stay exactly where and as they are? You don't get to manipulate the tax code and then get credit for following said manipulated tax code. Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. Get that check book out and make it payable to "United States Internal Revenue Service," bitch.

by **Trapper Gus** Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:50 am

kingstonlake wrote:I've always found it's best to see who funds these .orgs

Any help on this one?

happy talk about .org

wiki - somewhat less happy talk

Wiki wrote:The Tax Foundation was organized on December 5, 1937, in New York City by Alfred P. Sloan Jr., Chairman of the General Motors Corporation; Donaldson Brown, GM Financial Vice President; William S. Farish, President of Standard Oil Company of New Jersey (Exxon); and Lewis H. Brown, President of Johns-Manville Corporation...

The Tax Foundation's first project was a successful effort to stop a tax increase in Westchester County, New York...

The Tax Foundation states that its research is guided by what it calls the principles of sound tax policy: simplicity, transparency, neutrality, and stability.

Tax Foundation research is generally critical of tax increases, high business taxes, excise taxes, tax preferences for the housing industry, and use of tax credits, which the Foundation views as "picking winners and losers". The Foundation has spoken favorably of efforts to balance the federal budget with tax reform and significant spending cuts, such as the Bowles-Simpson plan, the Ryan Plan, and the Wyden-Coats plan.

by **Trapper Gus** Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:49 am

Here is ab explainer of President Biden's proposals for taxing the wealthy.

https://www.vox.com/money/23634085/biden-2024-budget-billionaire-tax-capital-gains

by TravelinMan Sun Mar 12, 2023 11:24 am

Trapper Gus wrote:Here is ab explainer of President Biden's proposals for taxing the wealthy.

https://www.vox.com/money/23634085/biden-2024-budget-billionaire-tax-capital-gains

Vox? LOL.

by **Trapper Gus** Sun Mar 12, 2023 12:10 pm

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/vox/

Factual Reporting - High

Bias - Left

by **Travis of the Cosmos** Sun Mar 12, 2023 12:22 pm

Tax foundation? LOL.

by **kingstonlake** Sun Mar 12, 2023 12:26 pm

Trapper Gus wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:I've always found it's best to see who funds these .orgs

Any help on this one?

happy talk about .org

wiki - somewhat less happy talk

Wiki wrote:The Tax Foundation was organized on December 5, 1937, in New York City by Alfred P. Sloan Jr., Chairman of the General Motors Corporation; Donaldson Brown, GM Financial Vice President; William S. Farish, President of Standard Oil Company of New Jersey (Exxon); and Lewis H. Brown, President of Johns-Manville Corporation...

The Tax Foundation's first project was a successful effort to stop a tax increase in Westchester County, New York...

The Tax Foundation states that its research is guided by what it calls the principles of sound tax policy: simplicity, transparency, neutrality, and stability.

Tax Foundation research is generally critical of tax increases, high business taxes, excise taxes, tax preferences for the housing industry, and use of tax credits, which the Foundation views as "picking winners and losers". The Foundation has spoken favorably of efforts to balance the federal budget with tax reform and significant spending cuts, such as the Bowles-Simpson plan, the Ryan Plan, and the Wyden-Coats plan.

Oh there’s more…..

by **DWags** Sun Mar 12, 2023 12:50 pm

kingstonlake wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

happy talk about .org

wiki - somewhat less happy talk

Oh there’s more…..

Here is the major issue with right wingers: they will ignore facts and run to publications that bolster their beliefs. And, (and this is huge) they will absolutely believe what they read in those publications or what is told to them on tv.

You’re talking to a wall at that point.

The J6 Tucker Carlson tape. A doctored edited tape has a few of my right wing acquaintances preaching about it in public circles.

Thing is, try to convince them otherwise.

by TravelinMan Sun Mar 12, 2023 1:40 pm

DWags wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

Oh there’s more…..

Here is the major issue with right wingers: they will ignore facts and run to publications that bolster their beliefs. And, (and this is huge) they will absolutely believe what they read in those publications or what is told to them on tv.

You’re talking to a wall at that point.

The J6 Tucker Carlson tape. A doctored edited tape has a few of my right wing acquaintances preaching about it in public circles.

Thing is, try to convince them otherwise.

So do you have any counters to the points presented in the article I linked, or so you just want to bash the source?

by **kingstonlake** Sun Mar 12, 2023 1:47 pm

DWags wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

Oh there’s more…..

Here is the major issue with right wingers: they will ignore facts and run to publications that bolster their beliefs. And, (and this is huge) they will absolutely believe what they read in those publications or what is told to them on tv.

You’re talking to a wall at that point.

The J6 Tucker Carlson tape. A doctored edited tape has a few of my right wing acquaintances preaching about it in public circles.

Thing is, try to convince them otherwise.

They supported the overthrow of the government. This is a whitewashing to back door that support.

by **kingstonlake** Sun Mar 12, 2023 1:50 pm

TravelinMan wrote:
DWags wrote:

Here is the major issue with right wingers: they will ignore facts and run to publications that bolster their beliefs. And, (and this is huge) they will absolutely believe what they read in those publications or what is told to them on tv.

You’re talking to a wall at that point.

The J6 Tucker Carlson tape. A doctored edited tape has a few of my right wing acquaintances preaching about it in public circles.

Thing is, try to convince them otherwise.

So do you have any counters to the points presented in the article I linked, or so you just want to bash the source?

Biden’s proposal would take the tax code in the wrong direction by imposing a complicated tax on a narrow segment of high-earning households

They don’t think it’s a good idea.

I support it.

I do think it’s cute how he terms people with net worth over 100 million a “household”. Like the it’s anything remotely similar to my “household”. Would the code limit their ability to by a fourth home or pay the HOAs on their condo in St Marteen?

by **Cameron** Sun Mar 12, 2023 1:54 pm

TravelinMan wrote:
DWags wrote:

Here is the major issue with right wingers: they will ignore facts and run to publications that bolster their beliefs. And, (and this is huge) they will absolutely believe what they read in those publications or what is told to them on tv.

You’re talking to a wall at that point.

The J6 Tucker Carlson tape. A doctored edited tape has a few of my right wing acquaintances preaching about it in public circles.

Thing is, try to convince them otherwise.

So do you have any counters to the points presented in the article I linked, or so you just want to bash the source?

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:Here is ab explainer of President Biden's proposals for taxing the wealthy.

https://www.vox.com/money/23634085/biden-2024-budget-billionaire-tax-capital-gains

Vox? LOL.

by **Trapper Gus** Sun Mar 12, 2023 2:38 pm

The simple counter is that income is income no matter what the source. That Reagan separated capital gains from other income to begin with was wrong when it happened and is still wrong.

by TravelinMan Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:20 pm

Trapper Gus wrote:The simple counter is that income is income no matter what the source. That Reagan separated capital gains from other income to begin with was wrong when it happened and is still wrong.

But it’s not income. Its unrealized gains. That’s not income! That’s the whole point!

by **Travis of the Cosmos** Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:34 pm

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:The simple counter is that income is income no matter what the source. That Reagan separated capital gains from other income to begin with was wrong when it happened and is still wrong.

But it’s not income. Its unrealized gains. That’s not income! That’s the whole point!

You say that so factually without thinking about it, not really at least. It’s been so engrained.

But, what is “income”? You’re defining it as cash in your pocket. But is that really true for a billionaire? If someone has, say, 1 billion in stock and it raises in value to 1.2 billion, is there not value imbedded in there that could be defined as income, even if they can’t take it to the grocery store to buy a bag Fritos? For instance, they could take out a loan secured by that unrealized gain, and purchase Fritos with the proceeds, all untaxable. Is it income now? Did it get taxed? Just one example. And if they just do that until they die, I suppose their heirs will have to pay the capital gains, right?

jk nah, they sell it with a cost basis of whenever they took ownership. So all of that “it’s not income!” Never gets taxed. Ever.

On top of that, fuck billionaires in the asshole. They shouldn’t exist, and all of their assets should be seized. They’re getting off light and bitching about it, and you (notably not a billionaire) defend them for… reasons, I guess. Fuck em, join your comrades on this side of the class divide and take their money for things we need.

by **NigelUno** Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:40 pm

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:Here is ab explainer of President Biden's proposals for taxing the wealthy.

https://www.vox.com/money/23634085/biden-2024-budget-billionaire-tax-capital-gains

Vox? LOL.

TravelinMan wrote:
DWags wrote:

Here is the major issue with right wingers: they will ignore facts and run to publications that bolster their beliefs. And, (and this is huge) they will absolutely believe what they read in those publications or what is told to them on tv.

You’re talking to a wall at that point.

The J6 Tucker Carlson tape. A doctored edited tape has a few of my right wing acquaintances preaching about it in public circles.

Thing is, try to convince them otherwise.

So do you have any counters to the points presented in the article I linked, or so you just want to bash the source?

by **Trapper Gus** Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:31 pm

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:The simple counter is that income is income no matter what the source. That Reagan separated capital gains from other income to begin with was wrong when it happened and is still wrong.

But it’s not income. Its unrealized gains. That’s not income! That’s the whole point!

Maybe you should have read the entire article you linked. The payments are prepaid taxes, not the actual taxes on the capital gains. The actual taxes are paid when the capital gain is realized and consists of credit for the prepaid taxes plus what ever additional taxes due to further gain in value there is, or in the case of a loss in value, or a lesser value than the prepaid taxes were based on a tax credit offsetting other taxes owed.

You should also read the VOX link I posted, as it provides more details on what President Biden is proposing.

by **GRR Spartan** Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:52 pm

Typical support for the status quo by poster who thinks he’s in the Top 1% or they actually give a shit about him then acting like links that don’t agree with his link are laughable.

Want to reduce the deficit?

A start is repealing the Tax Act of 2017.

Want to fund Social Security?

Make the first 150K earned per individual regardless of how the earnings are realized taxable for SS. Then tie that benchmark of $150K to inflation and recalculate it annually.

by **Trapper Gus** Mon Mar 13, 2023 7:08 am

GRR Spartan wrote:Typical support for the status quo by poster who thinks he’s in the Top 1% or they actually give a shit about him then acting like links that don’t agree with his link are laughable.

Want to reduce the deficit?

A start is repealing the Tax Act of 2017.

Want to fund Social Security?

Make the first 150K earned per individual regardless of how the earnings are realized taxable for SS. Then tie that benchmark of $150K to inflation and recalculate it annually.

The Social Security cap is adjusted to account for inflation, as are the tax brackets.

by TravelinMan Mon Mar 13, 2023 10:29 am

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

But it’s not income. Its unrealized gains. That’s not income! That’s the whole point!

Maybe you should have read the entire article you linked. The payments are prepaid taxes, not the actual taxes on the capital gains. The actual taxes are paid when the capital gain is realized and consists of credit for the prepaid taxes plus what ever additional taxes due to further gain in value there is, or in the case of a loss in value, or a lesser value than the prepaid taxes were based on a tax credit offsetting other taxes owed.

You should also read the VOX link I posted, as it provides more details on what President Biden is proposing.

I’ve read both of these articles, and many more. I understand what is being proposed just fine. It’s dumb.

by TravelinMan Mon Mar 13, 2023 10:30 am

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

But it’s not income. Its unrealized gains. That’s not income! That’s the whole point!

You say that so factually without thinking about it, not really at least. It’s been so engrained.

But, what is “income”? You’re defining it as cash in your pocket. But is that really true for a billionaire? If someone has, say, 1 billion in stock and it raises in value to 1.2 billion, is there not value imbedded in there that could be defined as income, even if they can’t take it to the grocery store to buy a bag Fritos? For instance, they could take out a loan secured by that unrealized gain, and purchase Fritos with the proceeds, all untaxable. Is it income now? Did it get taxed? Just one example. And if they just do that until they die, I suppose their heirs will have to pay the capital gains, right? jk nah, they sell it with a cost basis of whenever they took ownership. So all of that “it’s not income!” Never gets taxed. Ever.

On top of that, fuck billionaires in the asshole. They shouldn’t exist, and all of their assets should be seized. They’re getting off light and bitching about it, and you (notably not a billionaire) defend them for… reasons, I guess. Fuck em, join your comrades on this side of the class divide and take their money for things we need.

Yeah, silly me, I consider income actual money that has come into my account. What a crazy notion.

by **Turtleneck** Mon Mar 13, 2023 10:37 am

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:Here is ab explainer of President Biden's proposals for taxing the wealthy.

https://www.vox.com/money/23634085/biden-2024-budget-billionaire-tax-capital-gains

Vox? LOL.

You cited a Tax Foundation article as if they were objective evaluators of fiscal policy. Please find a more objective source before laughing at others' sources.

by TravelinMan Mon Mar 13, 2023 10:41 am

Turtleneck wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

Vox? LOL.

You cited a Tax Foundation article as if they were objective evaluators of fiscal policy. Please find a more objective source before laughing at others' sources.

Do we have a list of Bob approved sources? TIA

by **Turtleneck** Mon Mar 13, 2023 10:47 am

TravelinMan wrote:
Turtleneck wrote:

You cited a Tax Foundation article as if they were objective evaluators of fiscal policy. Please find a more objective source before laughing at others' sources.

Do we have a list of Bob approved sources? TIA

No

by **Travis of the Cosmos** Mon Mar 13, 2023 10:52 am

TravelinMan wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

You say that so factually without thinking about it, not really at least. It’s been so engrained.

But, what is “income”? You’re defining it as cash in your pocket. But is that really true for a billionaire? If someone has, say, 1 billion in stock and it raises in value to 1.2 billion, is there not value imbedded in there that could be defined as income, even if they can’t take it to the grocery store to buy a bag Fritos? For instance, they could take out a loan secured by that unrealized gain, and purchase Fritos with the proceeds, all untaxable. Is it income now? Did it get taxed? Just one example. And if they just do that until they die, I suppose their heirs will have to pay the capital gains, right? jk nah, they sell it with a cost basis of whenever they took ownership. So all of that “it’s not income!” Never gets taxed. Ever.

On top of that, fuck billionaires in the asshole. They shouldn’t exist, and all of their assets should be seized. They’re getting off light and bitching about it, and you (notably not a billionaire) defend them for… reasons, I guess. Fuck em, join your comrades on this side of the class divide and take their money for things we need.

Yeah, silly me, I consider income actual money that has come into my account. What a crazy notion.

That’s because you’re not a billionaire. It’s not your accounts that anyone cares about. It’s their accounts and how their finances work, not yours. They are not the same.

by **Trapper Gus** Mon Mar 13, 2023 10:58 am

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Maybe you should have read the entire article you linked. The payments are prepaid taxes, not the actual taxes on the capital gains. The actual taxes are paid when the capital gain is realized and consists of credit for the prepaid taxes plus what ever additional taxes due to further gain in value there is, or in the case of a loss in value, or a lesser value than the prepaid taxes were based on a tax credit offsetting other taxes owed.

You should also read the VOX link I posted, as it provides more details on what President Biden is proposing.

I’ve read both of these articles, and many more. I understand what is being proposed just fine. It’s dumb.

Your posts don't demonstrate your claimed understanding.

Just another point, Biden's proposal for tax rates is to tax capital gains as regular income (39.5% proposed) for high wealth persons, yet the prepaid amount would only be at 20%, thus not prepaying 100% of the tax, much closer to 50%.

by **Trapper Gus** Mon Mar 13, 2023 11:01 am

TravelinMan wrote:
Turtleneck wrote:

You cited a Tax Foundation article as if they were objective evaluators of fiscal policy. Please find a more objective source before laughing at others' sources.

Do we have a list of Bob approved sources? TIA

Pretty sure Bob has no approved sources.

by **Trapper Gus** Mon Mar 13, 2023 11:03 am

TravelinMan wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

You say that so factually without thinking about it, not really at least. It’s been so engrained.

But, what is “income”? You’re defining it as cash in your pocket. But is that really true for a billionaire? If someone has, say, 1 billion in stock and it raises in value to 1.2 billion, is there not value imbedded in there that could be defined as income, even if they can’t take it to the grocery store to buy a bag Fritos? For instance, they could take out a loan secured by that unrealized gain, and purchase Fritos with the proceeds, all untaxable. Is it income now? Did it get taxed? Just one example. And if they just do that until they die, I suppose their heirs will have to pay the capital gains, right? jk nah, they sell it with a cost basis of whenever they took ownership. So all of that “it’s not income!” Never gets taxed. Ever.

On top of that, fuck billionaires in the asshole. They shouldn’t exist, and all of their assets should be seized. They’re getting off light and bitching about it, and you (notably not a billionaire) defend them for… reasons, I guess. Fuck em, join your comrades on this side of the class divide and take their money for things we need.

Yeah, silly me, I consider income actual money that has come into my account. What a crazy notion.

Oh good, I be happy to take all those unrealized gains off your hands since you claim they have no value.

So your brokerage account doesn't list the current market value, only what you paid for it. Is that even legal?

by **Robert J Sakimano** Mon Mar 13, 2023 11:27 am

DWags wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

Oh there’s more…..

Here is the major issue with right wingers: they will ignore facts and run to publications that bolster their beliefs. And, (and this is huge) they will absolutely believe what they read in those publications or what is told to them on tv.

You’re talking to a wall at that point.

The J6 Tucker Carlson tape. A doctored edited tape has a few of my right wing acquaintances preaching about it in public circles.

Thing is, try to convince them otherwise.

that's why I just ignore the idiots. America is a stupid country and trying to engage with the stupidity is futile.

well-advised to direct your time and energy elsewhere.

by **Trapper Gus** Mon Mar 13, 2023 11:30 am

Turtleneck wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

Vox? LOL.

You cited a Tax Foundation article as if they were objective evaluators of fiscal policy. Please find a more objective source before laughing at others' sources.

Nothing wrong with the Tax Foundation's analysis, as far as it goes. That they skipped much of Biden's proposal, even as it pertains to the specific part they are bitching about is okay if you read other sources with more detail.

They are, to be a turtle about what they are, just crying that this taxation method is newish, though we would need an tax expert who isn't as biased as they are to say it has never been done. (Property taxes based on market value, as it is done on real estate in Michigan, seems to countradict their claim) They seem to be bemoaning the new, that is to say progress, just because it is new.

One wonders what they feel about not taxing inherited capital gains or the low rates that hedge fund managers incomes are taxed at?

by **GRR Spartan** Mon Mar 13, 2023 11:32 am

I stand corrected. SS is up to the first $160,200 of earned income.

The rub is trust fund babies and those who set up to be paid by their trusts avoid or pay reduced SS that isn't based on the max.

Always shake my head at the ham and eggers who haven't made $200K a year in their lives sweating what the Top 5% and Top 1% pay in taxes. If you make $200K or more and you are bitching about your taxes you need an accountant to a better accountant.

by **Trapper Gus** Mon Mar 13, 2023 11:40 am

GRR Spartan wrote:I stand corrected. SS is up to the first $160,200 of earned income.

The rub is trust fund babies and those who set up to be paid by their trusts avoid or pay reduced SS that isn't based on the max.

Always shake my head at the ham and eggers who haven't made $200K a year in their lives sweating what the Top 5% and Top 1% pay in taxes. If you make $200K or more and you are bitching about your taxes you need an accountant to a better accountant.

Been there, done that, got the tee-shirt.

Many people correctly think that $200k is a bunch of income, but for mid management and above this is just take home pay, at least for S&P 500 employees. Furthermore, for a two income household of college grads there is a reasonable chance of being over that, all in salaries.

The "trust fund babies" of whom you speak are mostly way above that in yearly pocket money, and yes, they pay too little to society for the value they receive from the existence of society.

by TravelinMan Mon Mar 13, 2023 1:21 pm

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

Yeah, silly me, I consider income actual money that has come into my account. What a crazy notion.

Oh good, I be happy to take all those unrealized gains off your hands since you claim they have no value.

So your brokerage account doesn't list the current market value, only what you paid for it. Is that even legal?

Can I spend unrealized gains?

I knew a ton of guys during the dot.com bubble that were "millionaires" on paper. Most of them are not today.

by TravelinMan Mon Mar 13, 2023 1:23 pm

GRR Spartan wrote:I stand corrected. SS is up to the first $160,200 of earned income.

The rub is trust fund babies and those who set up to be paid by their trusts avoid or pay reduced SS that isn't based on the max.

Always shake my head at the ham and eggers who haven't made $200K a year in their lives sweating what the Top 5% and Top 1% pay in taxes. If you make $200K or more and you are bitching about your taxes you need an accountant to a better accountant.

$200K a year? That ain't close to wealthy my friend. That's middle class at best! LOL!

by TravelinMan Mon Mar 13, 2023 1:24 pm

Trapper Gus wrote:
GRR Spartan wrote:I stand corrected. SS is up to the first $160,200 of earned income.

The rub is trust fund babies and those who set up to be paid by their trusts avoid or pay reduced SS that isn't based on the max.

Always shake my head at the ham and eggers who haven't made $200K a year in their lives sweating what the Top 5% and Top 1% pay in taxes. If you make $200K or more and you are bitching about your taxes you need an accountant to a better accountant.

Been there, done that, got the tee-shirt.

Many people correctly think that $200k is a bunch of income, but for mid management and above this is just take home pay, at least for S&P 500 employees. Furthermore, for a two income household of college grads there is a reasonable chance of being over that, all in salaries.

The "trust fund babies" of whom you speak are mostly way above that in yearly pocket money, and yes, they pay too little to society for the value they receive from the existence of society.

How much do you hate your own kids that you aren't worried about leaving them anything when you kick the bucket?

by **Trapper Gus** Mon Mar 13, 2023 2:02 pm

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Oh good, I be happy to take all those unrealized gains off your hands since you claim they have no value.

So your brokerage account doesn't list the current market value, only what you paid for it. Is that even legal?

Can I spend unrealized gains?

I knew a ton of guys during the dot.com bubble that were "millionaires" on paper. Most of them are not today.

I don't know about you, Elon Mask can and has. If you can find a "bank" that will give you a loan using your unrealized gains as collateral then yes you can. My bank keeps trying to give me money based on the current appraised value of my real estate, which is one way some can spend unrealized gains, even us poors.

by **Trapper Gus** Mon Mar 13, 2023 2:10 pm

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Been there, done that, got the tee-shirt.

Many people correctly think that $200k is a bunch of income, but for mid management and above this is just take home pay, at least for S&P 500 employees. Furthermore, for a two income household of college grads there is a reasonable chance of being over that, all in salaries.

The "trust fund babies" of whom you speak are mostly way above that in yearly pocket money, and yes, they pay too little to society for the value they receive from the existence of society.

How much do you hate your own kids that you aren't worried about leaving them anything when you kick the bucket?

Most people don't leave much in their estates, why should anyone with all the advantages they get from having well off parents while their parents are alive have any claim to what society gave their parents?

If there parents were good parents then the issue should be able to easily make their own way in life. If they can't then they would just be parasites on the rest of us with that unearned wealth. As an example of a total screw-up see Trump.

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