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Water - People, we have a huge problem!

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Post by Trapper Gus 2023-08-29, 09:31

From t New York Times:

Dry wells
The water that lies beneath the earth’s surface — known as groundwater — has been a vital resource for thousands of years. Communities that are far away from lakes and rivers use groundwater to irrigate crops and provide drinking water.

For most of human history, groundwater has existed in a convenient equilibrium. The pockets of water under the surface need years or decades to replenish as rainwater and other moisture seep into the earth. Fortunately, though, people have used groundwater slowly, allowing replenishment to happen.

Now that equilibrium is at risk.

Several of my colleagues — led by Mira Rojanasakul and Christopher Flavelle — have spent months compiling data on groundwater levels across the U.S., based on more than 80,000 monitoring stations. Chris and Mira did so after discovering that no comprehensive database existed. The statistics tended to be local and fragmented, making it difficult to understand national patterns.

The trends in this new database are alarming. Over the past 40 years, groundwater levels at most of the sites have declined. At 11 percent of the sites, levels last year fell to their lowest level on record.

The U.S., in other words, is taking water out of the ground more quickly than nature is replenishing it. “There’s almost no way to convey how important it is,” Don Cline, the associate director for water resources at the United States Geological Survey, told The Times.

Already, there are consequences. In parts of Kansas, the shortage of water has reduced the amount of corn that an average acre can produce.

Water - People, we have a huge problem! Scree180

In Norfolk, Va., officials have resorted to pumping treated wastewater into underground rock layers that store groundwater — known as aquifers — to replenish them. On Long Island, the depletion of aquifers has allowed saltwater to seep in and threatened the groundwater that remains.

“We’ve built whole parts of the country and whole parts of the economy on groundwater, which is fine so long as you have groundwater,” Chris told me. “I don’t think people realize quite how quickly we’re burning through it.”

Giant wells
Unlike many other environmental trends, this story is not primarily about climate change, although the warming planet plays an aggravating role. There are three main reasons for the groundwater declines:

Pumping technology has improved, allowing communities to draw water out of the earth much more quickly than in the past. Some wells can pump more than 100,000 gallons a day.
Economic growth and urban sprawl have increased the demand for water. Although the U.S. economy has not been growing rapidly in recent decades, American farms help feed other countries where the economy and population have been growing faster.
Climate change has reduced the amount of water that comes from alternative sources, like rivers: A warmer planet leads to less rainfall and faster evaporation of the rain that does fall. These declines have led communities to increase groundwater use.
These forces are not unique to the U.S. Other countries are coping with groundwater declines that are sometimes worse. This summer, my colleagues Vivian Yee and Leily Nikounazar reported on the dire shortages in parts of Iran, while Alissa Rubin and Bryan Denton did so in Iraq. The photographs and videos from Iraq are especially jarring.

Protecting the commons
Is there any solution?

Slowing climate change, by reducing carbon emissions, would help in the long term — and the long term is obviously important. More immediately, the answer may need to involve stricter rules on how much water towns, farms and companies can remove from the ground. “In many places,” Chris said, “the rules are weak or nonexistent.”

The federal government neither tracks the situation nor does much to regulate it. Some state and local governments — in parts of Arizona, for instance, and Texas — also have lax rules.

It’s a classic tragedy of the commons. The ecologist Garrett Hardin popularized that term in a 1968 essay based on a 19th-century pamphlet by William Forster Lloyd, an English economist. In the pamphlet, Lloyd explained that any individual farmer had an incentive for his cattle to eat as much grass as possible in any field that the community shared. But if all the farmers did so, the field would be ruined. The solution is for the farmers to agree on a set of rules that benefit all of them in the long run.

You can read The Times’s groundwater investigation here. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/08/28/climate/groundwater-drying-climate-change.html
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Post by sεяεηιτλ 2023-08-29, 10:00

Trapper Gus wrote:From t New York Times:

Dry wells
The water that lies beneath the earth’s surface — known as groundwater — has been a vital resource for thousands of years. Communities that are far away from lakes and rivers use groundwater to irrigate crops and provide drinking water.

For most of human history, groundwater has existed in a convenient equilibrium. The pockets of water under the surface need years or decades to replenish as rainwater and other moisture seep into the earth. Fortunately, though, people have used groundwater slowly, allowing replenishment to happen.

Now that equilibrium is at risk.

Several of my colleagues — led by Mira Rojanasakul and Christopher Flavelle — have spent months compiling data on groundwater levels across the U.S., based on more than 80,000 monitoring stations. Chris and Mira did so after discovering that no comprehensive database existed. The statistics tended to be local and fragmented, making it difficult to understand national patterns.

The trends in this new database are alarming. Over the past 40 years, groundwater levels at most of the sites have declined. At 11 percent of the sites, levels last year fell to their lowest level on record.

The U.S., in other words, is taking water out of the ground more quickly than nature is replenishing it. “There’s almost no way to convey how important it is,” Don Cline, the associate director for water resources at the United States Geological Survey, told The Times.

Already, there are consequences. In parts of Kansas, the shortage of water has reduced the amount of corn that an average acre can produce.

Water - People, we have a huge problem! Scree180

In Norfolk, Va., officials have resorted to pumping treated wastewater into underground rock layers that store groundwater — known as aquifers — to replenish them. On Long Island, the depletion of aquifers has allowed saltwater to seep in and threatened the groundwater that remains.

“We’ve built whole parts of the country and whole parts of the economy on groundwater, which is fine so long as you have groundwater,” Chris told me. “I don’t think people realize quite how quickly we’re burning through it.”

Giant wells
Unlike many other environmental trends, this story is not primarily about climate change, although the warming planet plays an aggravating role. There are three main reasons for the groundwater declines:

Pumping technology has improved, allowing communities to draw water out of the earth much more quickly than in the past. Some wells can pump more than 100,000 gallons a day.
Economic growth and urban sprawl have increased the demand for water. Although the U.S. economy has not been growing rapidly in recent decades, American farms help feed other countries where the economy and population have been growing faster.
Climate change has reduced the amount of water that comes from alternative sources, like rivers: A warmer planet leads to less rainfall and faster evaporation of the rain that does fall. These declines have led communities to increase groundwater use.
These forces are not unique to the U.S. Other countries are coping with groundwater declines that are sometimes worse. This summer, my colleagues Vivian Yee and Leily Nikounazar reported on the dire shortages in parts of Iran, while Alissa Rubin and Bryan Denton did so in Iraq. The photographs and videos from Iraq are especially jarring.

Protecting the commons
Is there any solution?

Slowing climate change, by reducing carbon emissions, would help in the long term — and the long term is obviously important. More immediately, the answer may need to involve stricter rules on how much water towns, farms and companies can remove from the ground. “In many places,” Chris said, “the rules are weak or nonexistent.”

The federal government neither tracks the situation nor does much to regulate it. Some state and local governments — in parts of Arizona, for instance, and Texas — also have lax rules.

It’s a classic tragedy of the commons. The ecologist Garrett Hardin popularized that term in a 1968 essay based on a 19th-century pamphlet by William Forster Lloyd, an English economist. In the pamphlet, Lloyd explained that any individual farmer had an incentive for his cattle to eat as much grass as possible in any field that the community shared. But if all the farmers did so, the field would be ruined. The solution is for the farmers to agree on a set of rules that benefit all of them in the long run.

You can read The Times’s groundwater investigation here.  https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/08/28/climate/groundwater-drying-climate-change.html

This makes fusion power ever more important. I do not understand why we can spend hundreds of billions of dollars per year on bullets and bombs but we can't find it in our heart to invest tens of billions per year in our future to support serious fusion energy projects.  Had we started drastically funding it in the 80s or 90s (when we actually had a realistic understanding of fusion process and a chance to develop the tech), we might have a few large fusion power plants by now.  IMO, the US should have 2 ITER like projects, one like ITER tokamak reactor design and another one (or even 2) more projects employing experimental moon shot like design ideas. We like to think of ourselves as technological leaders but then we let lobbyists subdue ideas like this.
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Post by sεяεηιτλ 2023-08-29, 10:13

For reference, I believe I read we have only contributed something like 1 billion to ITER and we expect only 6.5 billion over the life of the project.  That's pitifully low when you consider this is a project that takes decades.  And surprise surprise, the republican budget negotiations took a big bite out of what was requested.  It had a smaller bite vs other programs but a bite none the less.  We should be putting 20 billion or more per year into fusion, most to one promising project and a good amount to fund smaller but promising designs.  Viable fusion would solve so many of our problems. So much so I think the human carrying capacity of planet earth would receive a huge boost as we would have the energy to put towards the basics.

https://ww2.aip.org/fyi/fusion-ambitions-running-up-against-budget-caps-iter-troubles#:~:text=DOE's%20latest%20budget%20request%20stated,bound%20estimate%20of%20%246.5%20billion.


Last edited by sεяεηιτλ on 2023-08-29, 10:14; edited 1 time in total
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Post by AvgMSUJoe 2023-08-29, 10:14

I don't have the capacity to get into the weeds on environmental issues.
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Post by sεяεηιτλ 2023-08-29, 10:17

AvgMSUJoe wrote:I don't have the capacity to get into the weeds on environmental issues.

You should try to build the capacity.  This is less "in the weeds" then you think.  You don't need to jump right into climate change, etc, water is one of earth's systems and is a little easier to understand.

We can easily measure water levels in our ground water. We just choose not to. Not doing so is going to produce massive upheaval at some point when wells go dry and people are forced to migrate in droves.
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Post by Trapper Gus 2023-08-29, 10:19

AvgMSUJoe wrote:I don't have the capacity to get into the weeds on environmental issues.

This one is pretty simple. "We" are pumping more water out of the ground than goes back into the ground. As we continue to do the wells have to be drilled deeper. Right now, in parts of the country removal of water from the ground is being limited. Eventually there will be none to be had, and since much of this is in the areas where much of our food comes from, we will be very hungry.
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Post by AvgMSUJoe 2023-08-29, 10:26

And what am I going to do about it, but be anxious? I understand these issues are huge and I will support all things targeting fixing them, but my 2 AM brain doesn't need that shit rattling around in it.
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Post by Trapper Gus 2023-08-29, 10:29

Support politicians, and like every issue politics will be there, who have reasonable solutions for this issue. Water - People, we have a huge problem! 2599972566
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Post by GRR Spartan 2023-08-29, 11:31

Color me shocked about the water table in Kansas is dropping.  Beginning in the 1950’s farmers in the grain belt have been drilling into the Ogallala Aquifer and using center pivot irrigation for improved yields.

No rain? No worries just irrigate.  The water pressure drops at the well head?  No worries, drill deeper or drill a new well and run more pipe to get the water to your irrigation system(s).  

Today it’s farmers and Big Ag crying about water.  

Last month it was people in Phoenix realizing the desert can’t support millions of people.  

Later we’ll probably be reading how the 20M+ Florida residents are struggling after another hurricane hits the state with high winds and flooding but also with a water shortage where that state is literally draining The Everglades.
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Post by kingstonlake 2023-08-29, 11:40

Trapper Gus wrote:
AvgMSUJoe wrote:I don't have the capacity to get into the weeds on environmental issues.

This one is pretty simple. "We" are pumping more water out of the ground than goes back into the ground. As we continue to do the wells have to be drilled deeper. Right now, in parts of the country removal of water from the ground is being limited. Eventually there will be none to be had, and since much of this is in the areas where much of our food comes from, we will be very hungry.

Someone hacked Trappers account.
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Post by steveschneider 2023-08-29, 11:41

GRR Spartan wrote:Color me shocked about the water table in Kansas is dropping.  Beginning in the 1950’s farmers in the grain belt have been drilling into the Ogallala Aquifer and using center pivot irrigation for improved yields.

No rain? No worries just irrigate.  The water pressure drops at the well head?  No worries, drill deeper or drill a new well and run more pipe to get the water to your irrigation system(s).  

Today it’s farmers and Big Ag crying about water.  

Last month it was people in Phoenix realizing the desert can’t support millions of people.  

Later we’ll probably be reading how the 20M+ Florida residents are struggling after another hurricane hits the state with high winds and flooding but also with a water shortage where that state is literally draining The Everglades.

exactly this.
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Post by DWags 2023-08-29, 11:50

Nobody has ever accused me of being smart, but I think having water on our planet is a good thing.
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Post by Floyd Robertson 2023-08-29, 12:19

sεяεηιτλ wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:From t New York Times:



This makes fusion power ever more important. I do not understand why we can spend hundreds of billions of dollars per year on bullets and bombs but we can't find it in our heart to invest tens of billions per year in our future to support serious fusion energy projects.  Had we started drastically funding it in the 80s or 90s (when we actually had a realistic understanding of fusion process and a chance to develop the tech), we might have a few large fusion power plants by now.  IMO, the US should have 2 ITER like projects, one like ITER tokamak reactor design and another one (or even 2) more projects employing experimental moon shot like design ideas. We like to think of ourselves as technological leaders but then we let lobbyists subdue ideas like this.

Half the people love guns and hate science. Water - People, we have a huge problem! 2599972566
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Post by Trapper Gus 2023-08-29, 14:29

kingstonlake wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

This one is pretty simple. "We" are pumping more water out of the ground than goes back into the ground. As we continue to do the wells have to be drilled deeper. Right now, in parts of the country removal of water from the ground is being limited. Eventually there will be none to be had, and since much of this is in the areas where much of our food comes from, we will be very hungry.

Someone hacked Trappers account.

Hey! I try to post to fit the other posters styles, I'm just pretty shitty at achieving that.
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Post by sεяεηιτλ 2023-08-29, 23:26

ars per year on bullets

Imagine what we could do with our money at 2/3rds current military budget

Boggles my mind. And yet we'd STILL be spending way more on military than anybody else.

I know billions per year is a ton to invest in a single project but come on.  This is that important.

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Post by Trapper Gus 2023-08-30, 07:54

sεяεηιτλ wrote:
ars per year on bullets

Imagine what we could do with our money at 2/3rds current military budget

Boggles my mind.  And yet we'd STILL be spending way more on military than anybody else.

I know billions per year is a ton to invest in a single project but come on.  This is that important.


The Defense Department spending is welfare for the wealthy & middle-class people (who work at or in support of suppliers of the military).  Plus, it creates the stage sets for the Top Gun movies (/s). (Just watched Top Gun for the first time, didn't know that CV-65 was the carrier it was partly shot on.)

The MIC is smart in that it places money cows in select Congressional Districts & States to create votes for huge Defense spending.

Almost every other major government program which passes Congress with have some rhetoric about how this makes the US stronger militarily.

Ike got the Interstate Highway Act passed (creating the freeways) by saying the to defend the US better highways were needed.

Seems like a national water policy would need similar ideas to be created.
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Post by sεяεηιτλ 2023-08-30, 23:55

like a national water policy would need similar ideas to be created.

be nice to have some popular environment minded military leaders start some national defense projects, defending our way of live, via stabilization of our water resources, or energy related.

There may be some untapped resources somewhere.  Not sure what ground water situation is like in the US but there's some pretty good science indicating that there are huge volumes of freshwater extremely deep underground. Either way, some kind of similar effort could gain popularity if spun in this way.
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Post by Trapper Gus 2024-01-25, 10:18

https://thehill.com/policy/equilibrium-sustainability/4426143-majority-of-americas-underground-water-stores-are-drying-up-study-finds/

Many of America’s critical sources of underground water are in a state of rapid and accelerating decline, a new study has found.

More than half of the aquifers in the United States (53 percent) are losing water, according to research published Wednesday in Nature.

And in about 1 in 8 American aquifers — roughly 12 percent — the collapse of underground water levels has sped up during the 21st century, the researchers found.

“Groundwater levels are declining rapidly in many areas,” co-author Scott Jasechko of the University of California, Santa Barbara told The Hill.

“And what’s worse, the rate of groundwater decline is accelerating in a large portion of areas,” Jasechko said.

The impacted aquifers support much of the U.S. food system, as well as providing water used by many Americans. And the country is not alone in its losses: The study found rapid loss of water in aquifers that supply hundreds of millions of people worldwide.
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Post by Trapper Gus 2024-04-06, 09:07

https://apnews.com/article/carbon-dioxide-methane-global-warming-climate-change-94424de6b22f1f734b1afd6bce8489b2
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Post by sεяεηιτλ 2024-04-07, 11:45

sεяεηιτλ wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:From t New York Times:



This makes fusion power ever more important. I do not understand why we can spend hundreds of billions of dollars per year on bullets and bombs but we can't find it in our heart to invest tens of billions per year in our future to support serious fusion energy projects.  Had we started drastically funding it in the 80s or 90s (when we actually had a realistic understanding of fusion process and a chance to develop the tech), we might have a few large fusion power plants by now.  IMO, the US should have 2 ITER like projects, one like ITER tokamak reactor design and another one (or even 2) more projects employing experimental moon shot like design ideas. We like to think of ourselves as technological leaders but then we let lobbyists subdue ideas like this.

Who's this extremely smart guy?
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Post by Trapper Gus 2024-04-16, 09:07

https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-environment-watch/salt-level-rising-michigan-groundwaters-endangering-crops-homes

A worrisome environmental issue is bubbling up from deep below Michigan’s ground with little public awareness, experts say.

The salinity of the state’s groundwater is on the rise, raising concerns about killed crops and corroded pipes.

The problem is increasingly severe and requires action, but Michigan residents and lawmakers struggle to recognize it, said Alan Steinman, a Grand Valley State University water researcher and board member of the Alliance for the Great Lakes.

“It’s hard for people to imagine that we have a water problem in Michigan when their view is the Great Lakes,” he said. “Because we’re surrounded by so much water, they can’t imagine that we’re having an issue with the supply.”

The well water in Bay County is salty, really salty, due to Dow Chemical, when it first started, drilling wells down to the salt water below the fresh water to pump the salt water out and process it, but then when they abandoned those wells they were not sealed, so the salt water contaminated the freshwater aquifer.
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Post by Trapper Gus 2024-10-03, 09:05

https://hartmannreport.com/p/the-planets-begging-for-mercy-why-6af
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Post by gomersbro 2024-10-03, 09:46

Trapper Gus wrote:https://hartmannreport.com/p/the-planets-begging-for-mercy-why-6af

I never understood the "conservatives" being against conservation. Instead they just chase the almighty dollar and actually come out AGAINST environmental conservation. Simply bizarre.
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Post by Trapper Gus 2024-10-03, 11:14

The Newsroom producers' pride themselves on keep the news on its fictional network true...



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Post by Trapper Gus 2024-11-18, 11:08

https://phys.org/news/2024-11-nasa-satellites-reveal-abrupt-global.html?utm_source=nwletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily-nwletter

An international team of scientists using observations from NASA-German satellites found evidence that Earth's total amount of freshwater dropped abruptly starting in May 2014 and has remained low ever since. Reporting in Surveys in Geophysics, the researchers suggested the shift could indicate Earth's continents have entered a persistently drier phase.
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