Re: Ownership of Real Estate

by Zurn Mon Mar 25, 2024 8:49 am

AvgMSUJoe wrote:
I cant comprehend why any dipshit would defend the wealth of people they never could even dream about being.
Also, I pay my share, they don't ... and that's the problem.

Do you? Do they?

Top 1% of income earners make about 22% of the nation's income but pay 40% of the income tax.

Bottom 90% of income earners make about 50% of the nations income but pay only 25% of the income tax.

FWIW, Musk has paid the largest income tax bill in the history of the US.

by Zurn Mon Mar 25, 2024 8:51 am

Cameron wrote:If the Forbes 400 collectively gave away $4 trillion in net worth, they could all still comfortably be billionaires. We are reaching the point where it is a moral imperative to take their money.

Well that would fund the US government for about 9 months. Then whose money do we take?

by **Trapper Gus** Mon Mar 25, 2024 9:16 am

Zurn wrote:
Cameron wrote:If the Forbes 400 collectively gave away $4 trillion in net worth, they could all still comfortably be billionaires. We are reaching the point where it is a moral imperative to take their money.

Well that would fund the US government for about 9 months. Then whose money do we take?

The income tax system should be set back to the rates we had when this country was building the middle-class during the 1940's. 50's, and early 1960's

After 60 years of reduced income taxes, we have the Lords of Money running the country as their playground while the rest of the population struggles under the iron heels of their boots economically.

Many of them pay little as a percentage of their income, here is how they do that:

https://www.vox.com/money/2024/3/13/24086102/billionaires-wealthy-tax-avoidance-loopholes

The use of income tax precentages is foolish, as income taxes are only about 50% of all taxes paid.

When we look at all taxes paid we see charts like this:

Ownership of Real Estate - Page 2 Scree235

https://whorulesamerica.ucsc.edu/power/wealth.html

When we start looking at it state by state it becomes clear that some states where the state government is owned by the wealthy, are the states where the wealthy are going to claim they live for tax purposes.

https://i.servimg.com/u/f40/20/39/16/21/scree236.jpg

Ownership of Real Estate - Page 2 Scree237

https://itep.org/whopays-7th-edition/

by **Jake from State Farm** Mon Mar 25, 2024 11:34 am

Zurn wrote:
Cameron wrote:If the Forbes 400 collectively gave away $4 trillion in net worth, they could all still comfortably be billionaires. We are reaching the point where it is a moral imperative to take their money.

Well that would fund the US government for about 9 months. Then whose money do we take?

You're assuming they're all going to shut down and never earn another penny. That's not going to happen.

by AvgMSUJoe Mon Mar 25, 2024 5:49 pm

Zurn wrote:
AvgMSUJoe wrote:
I cant comprehend why any dipshit would defend the wealth of people they never could even dream about being.
Also, I pay my share, they don't ... and that's the problem.

Do you? Do they?

Top 1% of income earners make about 22% of the nation's income but pay 40% of the income tax.

Bottom 90% of income earners make about 50% of the nations income but pay only 25% of the income tax.

FWIW, Musk has paid the largest income tax bill in the history of the US.

All this proves is the gross economic disparity we have in this country.
Musk paid the largest bill in the history of the country but of course he didnt pay shit the previous decade when he made $14billion, and I still paid a higher effective rate when he did have to pay that huge bill...

by AvgMSUJoe Mon Mar 25, 2024 5:50 pm

And that bill equaled 10% of his tesla stock....

Disgusting.

by Zurn Tue Mar 26, 2024 8:22 am

AvgMSUJoe wrote:And that bill equaled 10% of his tesla stock....

Disgusting.

You think people should be taxed on the value of their stock holdings?

by **Trapper Gus** Tue Mar 26, 2024 8:29 am

Zurn wrote:
AvgMSUJoe wrote:And that bill equaled 10% of his tesla stock....

Disgusting.

You think people should be taxed on the value of their stock holdings?

Real estate property taxes are a wealthy tax, and property has the same issue regarding being taxed at present value that any other thing which is deemed to have value and it taxed.

However...

The proposals put forward for taxing financial securities & stocks include methods to deal with the difference in value when the tax is levied and when the owner releases the value in a transaction, with tax rebates to the owner if the stock is sold for less than the value it was taxed at.

Something that is not done with land.

by Zurn Tue Mar 26, 2024 9:03 am

Trapper Gus wrote:

Real estate property taxes are a wealthy tax

.

And are another impediment for the poor and middle class to develop generational wealth. High property taxes in urban settings keep black people perpetually paying rents and are an example of systemic racism.

Eliminate them.

by TravelinMan Tue Mar 26, 2024 9:21 am

Zurn wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Real estate property taxes are a wealthy tax

.

And are another impediment for the poor and middle class to develop generational wealth. High property taxes in urban settings keep black people perpetually paying rents and are an example of systemic racism.

Eliminate them.

But only on houses worth less than $200K, right? Fuck the wealthy.

by **Trapper Gus** Tue Mar 26, 2024 9:31 am

Zurn wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Real estate property taxes are a wealthy tax

.

And are another impediment for the poor and middle class to develop generational wealth. High property taxes in urban settings keep black people perpetually paying rents and are an example of systemic racism.

Eliminate them.

The rents for apartments & residence in a metropolitan area are based on many more factors that property taxes, which od course the landlords work to keep as low as possible.

While your rant may have been emotionally satisfying for you, it needs some real studies to show that rents are doing what you say they are for the reason you claim before it even can start to be a conversation with any rational base.

by TravelinMan Tue Mar 26, 2024 9:37 am

Trapper Gus wrote:
Zurn wrote:

And are another impediment for the poor and middle class to develop generational wealth. High property taxes in urban settings keep black people perpetually paying rents and are an example of systemic racism.

Eliminate them.

The rents for apartments & residence in a metropolitan area are based on many more factors that property taxes, which od course the landlords work to keep as low as possible.

While your rant may have been emotionally satisfying for you, it needs some real studies to show that rents are doing what you say they are for the reason you claim before it even can start to be a conversation with any rational base.

Maybe he could post a bunch of article links from websites no one has ever heard of without any context or comment?

by **Trapper Gus** Tue Mar 26, 2024 9:39 am

TravelinMan wrote:
Zurn wrote:

And are another impediment for the poor and middle class to develop generational wealth. High property taxes in urban settings keep black people perpetually paying rents and are an example of systemic racism.

Eliminate them.

But only on houses worth less than $200K, right? Fuck the wealthy.

Except for your emotional hatred of "the wealthy" that is an interesting point.

Property taxes likely came about when owning property was an indication of being wealthy. (As an aside, my ancestors in Ohio back in the 1810's to 1880's paid the property taxes on the thousands of acres of farmland by working on the roads for the county, which back in the day was a common way of paying taxes)

Now with mortgages from banks backed by the government "owning" property, or at least directly paying property taxes, is spread across a much larger economic demographic. Thus, an adjustment for income and where owners are on the "wealth" demographic could make some sense.

by **Trapper Gus** Tue Mar 26, 2024 9:41 am

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

The rents for apartments & residence in a metropolitan area are based on many more factors that property taxes, which od course the landlords work to keep as low as possible.

While your rant may have been emotionally satisfying for you, it needs some real studies to show that rents are doing what you say they are for the reason you claim before it even can start to be a conversation with any rational base.

Maybe he could post a bunch of article links from websites no one has ever heard of without any context or comment?

Nobody is of course a logical impossibility.

Anyone interested in refuting such links could of course use a search engine to find other points of view backed up with research.

by **Robert J Sakimano** Tue Mar 26, 2024 10:50 am

one thing about this thread (as with most threads that revolve around financial greed), is that it illustrates what each of us finds important, what each of us values.

by TravelinMan Tue Mar 26, 2024 11:36 am

Robert J Sakimano wrote:one thing about this thread (as with most threads that revolve around financial greed), is that it illustrates what each of us finds important, what each of us values.

Anyone who doesn’t value financial independence has never had it.

by **Trapper Gus** Tue Mar 26, 2024 12:12 pm

TravelinMan wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:one thing about this thread (as with most threads that revolve around financial greed), is that it illustrates what each of us finds important, what each of us values.

Anyone who doesn’t value financial independence has never had it.

You will not like my pov but financial independence is a very limited, meaning it is much less independence than truly being independent, situation.

At most it means you don't have to work to survive, which can also be said about a homeless person with no money living on the rough.

by **Robert J Sakimano** Tue Mar 26, 2024 12:22 pm

TravelinMan wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:one thing about this thread (as with most threads that revolve around financial greed), is that it illustrates what each of us finds important, what each of us values.

Anyone who doesn’t value financial independence has never had it.

spoken like someone who "worked hard to get to where I am"... Ownership of Real Estate - Page 2 502811600

by **Robert J Sakimano** Tue Mar 26, 2024 12:30 pm

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

Anyone who doesn’t value financial independence has never had it.

You will not like my pov but financial independence is a very limited, meaning it is much less independence than truly being independent, situation.

At most it means you don't have to work to survive, which can also be said about a homeless person with no money living on the rough.

54 years old and I'm still befuddled by people who fail to to see, understand or comprehend a society where a significant degree of built-in comfort is intrinsic to the luck and fortune of their American experience.

I'm happy for them. I don't want anyone to struggle - I just wish they could appreciate and acknowledge that their level of privilege is not something that everyone is fortunate enough to have. Not everyone wins the birth lottery that inherently grants a lot of us opportunities we wouldn't otherwise have, just by being born.

oh well.. it gives the rest of us something to work for, to advocate for. Ownership of Real Estate - Page 2 3493939353

Ownership of Real Estate - Page 2 3493939353

by TravelinMan Tue Mar 26, 2024 12:47 pm

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

You will not like my pov but financial independence is a very limited, meaning it is much less independence than truly being independent, situation.

At most it means you don't have to work to survive, which can also be said about a homeless person with no money living on the rough.
54 years old and I'm still befuddled by people who fail to to see, understand or comprehend a society where a significant degree of built-in comfort is intrinsic to the luck and fortune of their American experience.

I'm happy for them. I don't want anyone to struggle - I just wish they could appreciate and acknowledge that their level of privilege is not something that everyone is fortunate enough to have. Not everyone wins the birth lottery that inherently grants a lot of us opportunities we wouldn't otherwise have, just by being born.

oh well.. it gives the rest of us something to work for, to advocate for.

Dear 8 pounds 6 ounces... newborn infant Jesus, don't even know a word yet, thank you for not allowing us to be born in the Sudan…

by **Trapper Gus** Tue Mar 26, 2024 1:06 pm

TravelinMan wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:
54 years old and I'm still befuddled by people who fail to to see, understand or comprehend a society where a significant degree of built-in comfort is intrinsic to the luck and fortune of their American experience.

I'm happy for them. I don't want anyone to struggle - I just wish they could appreciate and acknowledge that their level of privilege is not something that everyone is fortunate enough to have. Not everyone wins the birth lottery that inherently grants a lot of us opportunities we wouldn't otherwise have, just by being born.

oh well.. it gives the rest of us something to work for, to advocate for.
Dear 8 pounds 6 ounces... newborn infant Jesus, don't even know a word yet, thank you for not allowing us to be born in the Sudan…

Or whichever paradigm each of us personally credits for our existence, I suppose...

by spartanwill Tue Mar 26, 2024 3:12 pm

[quote="Trapper Gus"]Among many of the topics I stumble through I find this one more amusing than some.

I own, in the modern vernacular, a farm house & barns sw of a2, and a lake cottage around Gaylord.

However, what does that mean?

Well if I don't pay the taxes the state will revoke my ownership, so do I really own it, or does the state?

Studied this question a while back and found there are no real cases of absolute ownership in this country for individuals. The governments, either State or Federal, have absolute ownership of all real estate.

In England it may be different, as a Lord, or Lady, may have absolute ownership of their land.[/quote

This raises a question that I've wondered about recently. We own a home near Milford and a second lakefront home near TC. We're not up there much but I am concerned about squatters moving in, using up the propane and trashing the place. If I don't really own it, how do I get them out? I've got a classic car in the garage. Does the same state ownership apply if I don't pay the registratoin tax

by **Trapper Gus** Tue Mar 26, 2024 3:22 pm

spartanwill wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:Among many of the topics I stumble through I find this one more amusing than some.

I own, in the modern vernacular, a farm house & barns sw of a2, and a lake cottage around Gaylord.

However, what does that mean?

Well if I don't pay the taxes the state will revoke my ownership, so do I really own it, or does the state?

Studied this question a while back and found there are no real cases of absolute ownership in this country for individuals. The governments, either State or Federal, have absolute ownership of all real estate.

In England it may be different, as a Lord, or Lady, may have absolute ownership of their land.

This raises a question that I've wondered about recently. We own a home near Milford and a second lakefront home near TC. We're not up there much but I am concerned about squatters moving in, using up the propane and trashing the place. If I don't really own it, how do I get them out? I've got a classic car in the garage. Does the same state ownership apply if I don't pay the registratoin tax

Squatters in a property in which you have limited ownership rights may be a problem, I know nothing about this part of the law.

My point about limited ownership only addresses real estate, not all personal property, though I think it is still correct, not that I agree with it, that law enforcement may confiscate all your assets, not just real estate if they claim you were using it In a criminal activity, and they can do that without showing you actual were.

by TravelinMan Tue Mar 26, 2024 5:16 pm

[quote="spartanwill"]

Trapper Gus wrote:Among many of the topics I stumble through I find this one more amusing than some.

I own, in the modern vernacular, a farm house & barns sw of a2, and a lake cottage around Gaylord.

However, what does that mean?

Well if I don't pay the taxes the state will revoke my ownership, so do I really own it, or does the state?

Studied this question a while back and found there are no real cases of absolute ownership in this country for individuals. The governments, either State or Federal, have absolute ownership of all real estate.

In England it may be different, as a Lord, or Lady, may have absolute ownership of their land.[/quote

This raises a question that I've wondered about recently. We own a home near Milford and a second lakefront home near TC. We're not up there much but I am concerned about squatters moving in, using up the propane and trashing the place. If I don't really own it, how do I get them out? I've got a classic car in the garage. Does the same state ownership apply if I don't pay the registratoin tax

I came home, there was an intruder in my house, I feared for my life, and I fired.

Squatter problem solved.

by **Trapper Gus** Tue Mar 26, 2024 5:25 pm

[quote="TravelinMan"]

spartanwill wrote:

I came home, there was an intruder in my house, I feared for my life, and I fired.

Squatter problem solved.

that depends on the state, which I am sure you know.

by TravelinMan Tue Mar 26, 2024 5:50 pm

[quote="Trapper Gus"]

TravelinMan wrote:

that depends on the state, which I am sure you know.

True. Don’t live in New York. But since most of our posters live in Michigan, I stand by my non-legal, only for entertainment purposes I’m not a lawyer advice.

by **Trapper Gus** Tue Mar 26, 2024 6:16 pm

[quote="TravelinMan"]

Trapper Gus wrote:

True. Don’t live in New York. But since most of our posters live in Michigan, I stand by my non-legal, only for entertainment purposes I’m not a lawyer advice.

I think the guy that tried that on the kid who knocked on his door went to jail...in Michigan

by TravelinMan Tue Mar 26, 2024 6:55 pm

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

I think the guy that tried that on the kid who knocked on his door went to jail...in Michigan

YMMV

by Zurn Wed Mar 27, 2024 8:14 am

Robert J Sakimano wrote:one thing about this thread (as with most threads that revolve around financial greed), is that it illustrates what each of us finds important, what each of us values.

Bob is so much better than the rest of us. I hope he tells us again about his fabulous waistline and RHR.

by **Trapper Gus** Wed Mar 27, 2024 8:20 am

Zurn wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:one thing about this thread (as with most threads that revolve around financial greed), is that it illustrates what each of us finds important, what each of us values.

Bob is so much better than the rest of us. I hope he tells us again about his fabulous waistline and RHR.

I've been here longer than you have, and my observation is that no one has ever been successful on these boards with "anti-Bob" posts.

by TravelinMan Wed Mar 27, 2024 10:18 am

Trapper Gus wrote:
Zurn wrote:

Bob is so much better than the rest of us. I hope he tells us again about his fabulous waistline and RHR.

I've been here longer than you have, and my observation is that no one has ever been successful on these boards with "anti-Bob" posts.

I have no idea what Bob is like in real life. I’d love to someday hang out with him for an afternoon and buy him a few beers. But in my head, if there was a movie about him, he’d be played by Bill Walton.

by **Trapper Gus** Wed Mar 27, 2024 10:26 am

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

I've been here longer than you have, and my observation is that no one has ever been successful on these boards with "anti-Bob" posts.

I have no idea what Bob is like in real life. I’d love to someday hang out with him for an afternoon and buy him a few beers. But in my head, if there was a movie about him, he’d be played by Bill Walton.

There are others on this board who are publicly more into the cannabis usage. I have never actually seen a post from Bob on that topic.

Bob is much more libertine in attitudes than freaky.

by TravelinMan Wed Mar 27, 2024 10:31 am

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

I have no idea what Bob is like in real life. I’d love to someday hang out with him for an afternoon and buy him a few beers. But in my head, if there was a movie about him, he’d be played by Bill Walton.

There are others on this board who are publicly more into the cannabis usage. I have never actually seen a post from Bob on that topic.

Bob is much more libertine in attitudes than freaky.

Oh I didn’t even think of the pot angle. It was more of a laid back, totally random, hippy vibe thing. Like a sober Bill Walton on a mountain bike.

by **Robert J Sakimano** Wed Mar 27, 2024 10:36 am

Zurn wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:one thing about this thread (as with most threads that revolve around financial greed), is that it illustrates what each of us finds important, what each of us values.

Bob is so much better than the rest of us. I hope he tells us again about his fabulous waistline and RHR.

happy easter.

by **Robert J Sakimano** Wed Mar 27, 2024 10:43 am

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

I have no idea what Bob is like in real life. I’d love to someday hang out with him for an afternoon and buy him a few beers. But in my head, if there was a movie about him, he’d be played by Bill Walton.

There are others on this board who are publicly more into the cannabis usage. I have never actually seen a post from Bob on that topic.

Bob is much more libertine in attitudes than freaky.

haven't smoked weed since I was, like, 12. I try not to contaminate my body too much these days. I've even cut back on alcohol a bit.

to TravelinMan's point, I've never understood the hippie comparison - I'm about as far from being a hippie as one could be. People reference that here periodically and I always get a kick out of it. I just don't get the jesus-y folks and their fascination with money, racism and misogyny. If that makes me a hippie, I can live with it.

the mountain bike thing, though - 100%. Running, as well.

cycling, running, good music (trigger warning to Zurn: I'm also very judgemental about music.. so you've been warned) are pretty much about the only things I take seriously.

as far as the board goes, to my knowledge, DWags is the only dude I know personally. He's a gracious tailgate host and I randomly ran into him on his birthday on the concourse of Ford Field at the Stones show and we talked for a couple of minutes - that was pretty awesome, and he's a great dude.

heck, my own daughter was at the same Stones show and I didn't even see her. But, DWags, hell yeah. Ownership of Real Estate - Page 2 502811600

by **Trapper Gus** Wed Mar 27, 2024 10:59 am

Synonyms of libertine
1) a freethinker especially in religious matters
2) a person who is unrestrained by convention

this is what i was going for...

by TravelinMan Wed Mar 27, 2024 4:17 pm

I've never understood the hippie comparison - I'm about as far from being a hippie as one could be. People reference that here periodically and I always get a kick out of it. I just don't get the jesus-y folks and their fascination with money, racism and misogyny. If that makes me a hippie, I can live with it.

People who claim to not be fascinated with money are either really rich and have never had to worry about it, or they come off as some kind of a Bill Walton/The Dude modern day hippy character.

by **Trapper Gus** Wed Mar 27, 2024 6:18 pm

TravelinMan wrote:
I've never understood the hippie comparison - I'm about as far from being a hippie as one could be. People reference that here periodically and I always get a kick out of it. I just don't get the jesus-y folks and their fascination with money, racism and misogyny. If that makes me a hippie, I can live with it.

People who claim to not be fascinated with money are either really rich and have never had to worry about it, or they come off as some kind of a Bill Walton/The Dude modern day hippy character.

Wow!

by **GRR Spartan** Wed Mar 27, 2024 6:26 pm

TrelinMan goes to a Jesus story to back up his bullshit premise that we're all better off when the Top 5% pay fewer taxes now than they did 50 years ago and they same "conservative" assholes pass tax laws that limit the deductions on state & local property taxes to $10,000 on Federal income.

But assholes like TravelinMan have their homes and autos ownership by trusts or business entities so they can use all kinds of deductions that are denied to the majority of tax payers under the GOP passed/Trump signed "simplified" tax bill.

By the way the top 10% and corporations will keep all the additional tax reductions in Trump's 2021 tax bill are better off. In the last 15 years the top 10% have improved their income by 20%, the Top 5% nearly 25%. The masses who vote for Trump and his sycophants, like the rest of us will see those tax reductions go away 31 Dec 2025.

There's a word that TravelnMan uses for the bottom 80%. Suckers.

by TravelinMan Wed Mar 27, 2024 9:02 pm

GRR Spartan wrote:TrelinMan goes to a Jesus story to back up his bullshit premise that we're all better off when the Top 5% pay fewer taxes now than they did 50 years ago and they same "conservative" assholes pass tax laws that limit the deductions on state & local property taxes to $10,000 on Federal income.

But assholes like TravelinMan have their homes and autos ownership by trusts or business entities so they can use all kinds of deductions that are denied under the GOP passed/Trump signed "simplified" tax bill.

By the way the top 10% and corporations will keep all the additional tax reductions in Trump's 2021 tax bill aren't better off. In the last 15 years the top 10% have improved their income by 20%, the Top 5% nearly 25%.

There's a word that TravelnMan uses for the bottom 80%. Suckers.

Well that felt awful personal. Ownership of Real Estate - Page 2 502811600

What "Jesus story" did I use again?

Guilty as charged on having a trust. You're a sucker if you don't. I don't make the laws, I just play by them.

by Sponsored content