Izzo building his team up

by **InTenSity** 2014-09-15, 09:52

Pre season confidence building going on right now. Izzo is pleased with the offseason and how hard the guys have worked. I actually have hope for this year, unlike a lot of people. Maybe I just have too much trust in Izzo.

Izzo pleased

“So far I’ve been so pleased with my two guys as far as leadership,” Izzo said. “Who knows where it takes us, but it’s been fun for me to watch. (Valentine) is a mini-Magic (Johnson) in that way and was born with some leadership qualities and Trice was quieter but is starting to do more and more.”

by LoneWolfSparty 2014-09-15, 09:56

Never. Ever. Ever. Doubt Izzo. Especially when people have no expectations.

by **Turtleneck** 2014-09-15, 09:57

LoneWolfSparty wrote:Never. Ever. Ever. Doubt Izzo. Especially when people have no expectations.

Well, you know, he can't develop big men.

- 247 Brain Trust

by **Nommad2** 2014-09-15, 09:57

I'm sure Coach Izzo will get the most out of these guys. I'm just not sure our talent level is high enough for a deep run in the Tourney. It's just not a deep team.

by **InTenSity** 2014-09-15, 10:05

Nommad2 wrote:I'm sure Coach Izzo will get the most out of these guys. I'm just not sure our talent level is high enough for a deep run in the Tourney. It's just not a deep team.

What would've you said about UConn last year? Who has talent this year? Duke, UK, Zona, Whisky? The B1G isn't as strong this year, as it was last year. I think MSU takes 4th or better, maybe they even have a chance to win it at the end of the year.

by **Turtleneck** 2014-09-15, 10:06

But how well are the Spartans set up for the future? Pretty well, according to a recent analysis by ESPN.com.

The website looked ahead to the next three seasons and ranked college basketball programs in order of likely success, looking at coaching, current talent, recruiting and more.

The Spartans came in at No. 9 on the list, with a score of 91.3 out of 100.

http://www.mlive.com/spartans/index.ssf/2014/09/michigan_state_basketball_rank_6.html

by **Giant Moose** 2014-09-15, 10:14

LoneWolfSparty wrote:Never. Ever. Ever. Doubt Izzo. Especially when people have no expectations.

People always say that, but the last two times we had suspect rosters (2011 and 2007) we lost in the 1st weekend of the NCAA tourney. It's cool that he even got us to the Dance those years, but when we have no expectations we generally don't do anything special.

by **Turtleneck** 2014-09-15, 10:25

Giant Moose wrote:
People always say that, but the last two times we had suspect rosters (2011 and 2007) we lost in the 1st weekend of the NCAA tourney. It's cool that he even got us to the Dance those years, but when we have no expectations we generally don't do anything special.

Will 2014/15 shape up to be 2001/2002? Izzo had a very limited roster that year. I believe Izzo was working with only 8 scholarship players, and 3-4 were freshmen. The team lost in the 1st Round. Although that was disappointing, sometimes making the Tournament needs to be viewed as an achievement. There are only three programs that can expect to compete for a Final Four every year, and they have a historical advantage that MSU is without.

by **Giant Moose** 2014-09-15, 10:35

Turtleneck wrote:

Will 2014/15 shape up to be 2001/2002? Izzo had a very limited roster that year. I believe Izzo was working with only 8 scholarship players, and 3-4 were freshmen. The team lost in the 1st Round. Although that was disappointing, sometimes making the Tournament needs to be viewed as an achievement. There are only three programs that can expect to compete for a Final Four every year, and they have a historical advantage that MSU is without.

I'm fine with it the coming year, but people seem to act like Izzo takes mediocre teams to these great heights and it's not true. When we have talent, we generally do pretty well. When we have a roster like we'll have this coming year, we generally lose early in the NCAAs.

I'm proud of what Izzo has done and our NCAA streak, but the roster being what it is right now falls on Izzo. He's had far too many busts lately. If it was more so guys leaving early for good reasons (Iike Harris) I'd understand it more, but we've had too many Byrd/Kaminski/Kearney/Gauna situations lately that have put us into this situation.

by LoneWolfSparty 2014-09-15, 10:44

Giant Moose wrote:LoneWolfSparty wrote:“Never. Ever. Ever. Doubt Izzo. Especially when people have no expectations.”People always say that, but the last two times we had suspect rosters (2011 and 2007) we lost in the 1st weekend of the NCAA tourney. It's cool that he even got us to the Dance those years, but when we have no expectations we generally don't do anything special.

No expectations to me mean making the tournament is success. Izzo building his team up 2599972566

by **Heat Miser** 2014-09-15, 10:49

LoneWolfSparty wrote:
Giant Moose wrote:LoneWolfSparty wrote:“Never. Ever. Ever. Doubt Izzo. Especially when people have no expectations.”People always say that, but the last two times we had suspect rosters (2011 and 2007) we lost in the 1st weekend of the NCAA tourney. It's cool that he even got us to the Dance those years, but when we have no expectations we generally don't do anything special.

No expectations to me mean making the tournament is success.

I think the floor/no expectations at MSU under Izzo is a 1st round exit.

by **Turtleneck** 2014-09-15, 11:07

Giant Moose wrote:
. He's had far too many busts lately. If it was more so guys leaving early for good reasons (Iike Harris) I'd understand it more, but we've had too many Byrd/Kaminski/Kearney/Gauna situations lately that have put us into this situation.

I would say the issue really comes down to losing some key recruiting battles. Izzo went to battle against Duke, Kentucky, and Kansas and got burned on a few blue chip recruits. Beyond that, recruits often do not live up to the expectations that fans create. I do not want to invoke stars, but they do say something about skill. It is when we use stars to make determinations about the future that we get into trouble. All of the players you mentioned were 3 star players coming out of high school. Within the context of Big Ten basketball and competing for Final Fours, they were all more of a project than most fans are willing to admit. As fans, we have too many expectations for players that are going to take longer to develop. At the Big Ten level, some of them will not develop. Some of them will become role players at best. Some will blossom into major contributors. It's a crap shoot.

by **InTenSity** 2014-09-15, 11:20

Wasn't kaminsky a 4 star? Izzo has always tried to have 1 or 2 project players, not sure if that is out of necessity or choice though.

by **Rocinante** 2014-09-15, 11:26

If Izzo is pleased, I am pleased. All of you doubters are fuckfaced shitforbrains and need to go root for scUM because the REAL SPARTANS don't need your bandwagoning ass.

How'd I do, Bee?

by LoneWolfSparty 2014-09-15, 11:32

Rocinante wrote:If Izzo is pleased, I am pleased. All of you doubters are fuckfaced shitforbrains and need to go root for scUM because the REAL SPARTANS don't need your bandwagoning ass.How'd I do, Bee?

OK. I like the sunshine blowing. Hate the language.

by **Turtleneck** 2014-09-15, 11:43

InTenSity wrote:Wasn't kaminsky a 4 star? Izzo has always tried to have 1 or 2 project players, not sure if that is out of necessity or choice though.

I thought he was a 4 star as well. I double-checked at Rivals and he is listed as a 3 star from the 2012 class.

I just looked at Scout and they have him as a 4 star. 247 has him as a 4 star as well (side note: I can get player rankings on the 247 site for players active well before 247 existed. Where do they pull those from? I doubt they went back in time to accurately assess players). Anyway, it looks like he was a 4 star so I stand corrected.

by **Heat Miser** 2014-09-15, 11:48

Turtleneck wrote:
InTenSity wrote:Wasn't kaminsky a 4 star? Izzo has always tried to have 1 or 2 project players, not sure if that is out of necessity or choice though.

I thought he was a 4 star as well. I double-checked at Rivals and he is listed as a 3 star from the 2012 class.

I just looked at Scout and they have him as a 4 star. 247 has him as a 4 star as well (side note: I can get player rankings on the 247 site for players active well before 247 existed. Where do they pull those from? I doubt they went back in time to accurately assess players). Anyway, it looks like he was a 4 star so I stand corrected.

KK was also Mr. Basketball in MI & I think Byrd was Mr. Basketball in MN? Kearney & Gauna fit the "project/need time to develop" narrative, but not so much with Byrd & KK IMHO. They just didn't work out. It happens.

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2014-09-15, 11:50

Rocinante wrote:If Izzo is pleased, I am pleased. All of you doubters are fuckfaced shitforbrains and need to go root for scUM because the REAL SPARTANS don't need your bandwagoning ass.How'd I do, Bee?

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2014-09-15, 11:50

Giant Moose wrote:Turtleneck wrote:“Will 2014/15 shape up to be 2001/2002? Izzo had a very limited roster that year. I believe Izzo was working with only 8 scholarship players, and 3-4 were freshmen. The team lost in the 1st Round. Although that was disappointing, sometimes making the Tournament needs to be viewed as an achievement. There are only three programs that can expect to compete for a Final Four every year, and they have a historical advantage that MSU is without. ”I'm fine with it the coming year, but people seem to act like Izzo takes mediocre teams to these great heights and it's not true. When we have talent, we generally do pretty well. When we have a roster like we'll have this coming year, we generally lose early in the NCAAs.I'm proud of what Izzo has done and our NCAA streak, but the roster being what it is right now falls on Izzo. He's had far too many busts lately. If it was more so guys leaving early for good reasons (Iike Harris) I'd understand it more, but we've had too many Byrd/Kaminski/Kearney/Gauna situations lately that have put us into this situation.

This.

by **Rocinante** 2014-09-15, 11:51

Rocinante wrote:If Izzo is pleased, I am pleased. All of you doubters are unfortunately mistaken and need to go root for The University of Michigan because the REAL SPARTANS don't need your wet blanket attitude.

How'd I do, Bee?

Better?

by **Turtleneck** 2014-09-15, 12:02

Heat Miser wrote:

KK was also Mr. Basketball in MI & I think Byrd was Mr. Basketball in MN? Kearney & Gauna fit the "project/need time to develop" narrative, but not so much with Byrd & KK IMHO. They just didn't work out. It happens.

Kaminsky is from Ohio and Bird from Indiana. With Byrd, you might be thinking of Dahlman.

I agree about players not working out. That is my point. But I am curious why you did not see Byrd as somewhat of a project.

by **InTenSity** 2014-09-15, 12:06

Turtleneck wrote:

Kaminsky is from Ohio and Bird from Indiana. With Byrd, you might be thinking of Dahlman.

I agree about players not working out. That is my point. But I am curious why you did not see Byrd as somewhat of a project.

Wasn't Byrd another 4 star until he was injured? Didn't he set records in Indiana? He came in as a pretty heralded recruit.

by **Heat Miser** 2014-09-15, 12:10

Turtleneck wrote:
Heat Miser wrote:

KK was also Mr. Basketball in MI & I think Byrd was Mr. Basketball in MN? Kearney & Gauna fit the "project/need time to develop" narrative, but not so much with Byrd & KK IMHO. They just didn't work out. It happens.

Kaminsky is from Ohio and Bird from Indiana. With Byrd, you might be thinking of Dahlman.

I agree about players not working out. That is my point. But I am curious why you did not see Byrd as somewhat of a project.

Guess I'm thinking of Costello rather than Kaminsky for MI Mr. Basketball, but:

"Ranked among the top 125 players in the nation by ESPNU100 (#86) and Rivals.com (#113) • Rated among the top players at his position by ESPNU100 (#16 power forward), Scout.com (#20 power forward) and Rivals.com (#26 power forward) "

And Byrd I whiffed on, but:

"Ranked nationally by ESPNU Top 100 (61), Scout.com (82) and Rivals.com (115) • Among the top players in the nation at his position as ranked by ESPNU Top 100 (20 Shooting Guard), Scout.com (19 Shooting Guard) and Rivals.com (21 Small Forward)"

by LoneWolfSparty 2014-09-15, 12:10

Rocinante wrote:Rocinante wrote:“If Izzo is pleased, I am pleased. All of you doubters are unfortunately mistaken and need to go root for The University of Michigan because the REAL SPARTANS don't need your wet blanket attitude.How'd I do, Bee?”Better?

LOL

ROC, just when I think I could never like you, you go and do something like this......

AND TOTALLY REDEEM YOURSELF!!

by **Turtleneck** 2014-09-15, 12:20

InTenSity wrote:

Wasn't Byrd another 4 star until he was injured? Didn't he set records in Indiana? He came in as a pretty heralded recruit.

Maybe. Like Kaminsky, he is listed as a 3 star on rivals for his class. But I also found out that Kaminsky was a 4 star elsewhere so that could be the case with Byrd as well. I know that Byrd was on some "top 100" lists, too.

Byrd was a prolific shooter in high school, put up great numbers, and was 2nd team All-State as a senior. He also spent time at well known camps where he made a name for himself. I am not sure about records, but like I said, he was a prolific shooter and could have set some records.

by **InTenSity** 2014-09-15, 12:22

I thought Rivals generally sucked for Bball recruiting and that Scout actually did a better job. I guess it doesn't matter either way.

by Murphy Green 2014-09-22, 13:53

Giant Moose wrote:
I'm proud of what Izzo has done and our NCAA streak, but the roster being what it is right now falls on Izzo. He's had far too many busts lately. If it was more so guys leaving early for good reasons (Iike Harris) I'd understand it more, but we've had too many Byrd/Kaminski/Kearney/Gauna situations lately that have put us into this situation.

Ok, so you're saying that Izzo shouldn't stand behind guys who have injuries during their HS senior yrs? That's something that many of us have been proud of, that is, that our coaches don't just abandon commits like other coaches without as much integrity as Dantonio and Izzo. Need I mention Arthur Ray Jr. or Delvon Roe?

So, both Kaminski & Byrd redshirted freshman yr so their injuries could heal. Kaminski's did and his 3 pt accuracy came back but he never seemed to get his head 'in the game', meaning that he was not serious about being a student nor about playing Izzo ball, that is giving 110% in all phases of practice, defense, hustle, etc. So, you blame Izzo for not knowing that Kaminski would refuse to be a Spartan Dawg?

As far as Byrd, he had to have 3 surgeries and while he maybe healed, he continues to have pain in his foot. And after being out of competitive bball for so long, he lost his confidence. You're blaming Izzo for not knowing that Byrd would incur such a significant injury and then that he wouldn't be able to regain his mental edge?

Pretty harsh judgment on Coach Izzo, imo.

by **Blanch32** 2014-09-22, 15:09

Uhhhhh....dantonio effectively kicked Arthur ray off the team his senior yr. Not sure it was needed or the example you are trying to make

by tanfan! 2014-09-23, 06:37

Heat Miser wrote:

I think the floor/no expectations at MSU under Izzo is a 1st round exit.

I gotta agree. Last year was The year and the team blew it. With players constantly transferring or getting kicked off the team my confidence level in izzo getting us another final four yet alone an nc has subsided. It's a different game now with kentucky paying appearance fees and coach k coaching the national team. Izzo hasn't got a chance in this environment. College hoops has gotten very dirty. It's lost its luster because of the corruption that guys like calipari have brought to the game.

by **InTenSity** 2014-09-23, 08:26

Tanfan! wrote:

I gotta agree. Last year was The year and the team blew it. With players constantly transferring or getting kicked off the team my confidence level in izzo getting us another final four yet alone an nc has subsided. It's a different game now with kentucky paying appearance fees and coach k coaching the national team. Izzo hasn't got a chance in this environment. College hoops has gotten very dirty. It's lost its luster because of the corruption that guys like calipari have brought to the game.

Coach K hasn't won shit in the last 3 years. No conference title, no ACC tourney title and has only make it out of the first game once. 5 times in the last 8 he hasn't made it out of the first weekend, but he does have 1 NC.

Louisville got a commitment from a 5 star player, they just forgot to check what type of shoes the school uses and the AAU team use. He dropped his commitment because Louisville is an Addidas school and his AAU team is Nike. That's fucked up, I couldn't imagine what would happen at MSU if something like that occured.

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