Remember this the next time you fork over $$ for "Organic"

Triple Sparty wrote:Anything I can do to eliminate use of chemicals is good in my book.

AnomanderRake wrote:The highest margin grocery items that Meijer (and I'm sure other retailers) sells are all organic/gluten-free. It's hilarious how much more customers are willing to pay for this crap when the vendor first costs are only slightly higher for the retailer.

Let's say we have a non-organic product that is $2 each with a margin of 10%. The organic version will cost retailers like 5% more but the customer will be charged $3-4 for it. We're talking like 2-10x margin improvement. Amazing.

Turtleneck wrote:More than a million hens, filling barns at three per square foot. And yes, they’re USDA Organic: One of the largest “organic” egg operations in the United States keeps 1.6 million hens, and it continues to grow.

SARANAC, Mich. — Of all the cartons of organic eggs sold in the United States, more than 1 in 10 originates from a complex here that houses more than 1.6 million hens.

They’re sold under the Eggland’s Best label.

“The entire process is organic,” Greg Herbruck, president of Herbruck's Poultry Ranch says in a promotional video.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/07/13/more-than-a-million-hens-filling-barns-at-three-per-square-foot-and-yes-theyre-usda-organic/?utm_term=.69d29d90dd53

The USDA report was released shortly after a Washington Post exposé found that millions of pounds of fraudulently labeled corn and soybeans had entered the organic supply chain. These grains were mostly used as livestock feed; federal rules require that animals be given only organic feed if their meat, eggs, or milk will be labeled organic. The reason why “organic” grain imports are at an all-time high is that nearly all the commodity crops grown here are genetically modified and thus not allowed in organic production. (How stupid is it for the world’s largest grower of these crops — the U.S. — to now import allegedly organic versions?)

Imagine for a moment this was any other industry. Suppose the pharmaceutical industry had been caught using shady ingredients from dubious exporters, mislabeling their drugs, and selling them to consumers at a premium. Capitol Hill and the media would be in full pitchfork mode.

So, have consumers been scammed? It’s obvious that many, possibly most, imported “organic” foods — especially fruits and vegetables — do not meet U.S. organic standards. If they were sprayed with non-organic pesticides, they are not organic. If cows were fed non-organic grains, the milk they produce is not organic. If NOP officials did not conduct on-site inspections of international exporters, and only relied on the word of the exporting country, there is no way to have confidence the crops or goods shipped here are really organic. This means many of our organic dairy products, from milk to yogurt to ice cream, probably do not meet organic labeling requirements. Same goes for other animals; any meat, such as chicken breasts or ground beef, sold as organic, likely is not.

steveschneider wrote:Goose what’s the diff between organic and local farm fresh? We have local growers that hold a farmers market and the produce is dynamite.

LooseGoose wrote:I've been telling people this for years.

Congress Should Investigate the Organic Scam

The USDA report was released shortly after a Washington Post exposé found that millions of pounds of fraudulently labeled corn and soybeans had entered the organic supply chain. These grains were mostly used as livestock feed; federal rules require that animals be given only organic feed if their meat, eggs, or milk will be labeled organic. The reason why “organic” grain imports are at an all-time high is that nearly all the commodity crops grown here are genetically modified and thus not allowed in organic production. (How stupid is it for the world’s largest grower of these crops — the U.S. — to now import allegedly organic versions?)

Imagine for a moment this was any other industry. Suppose the pharmaceutical industry had been caught using shady ingredients from dubious exporters, mislabeling their drugs, and selling them to consumers at a premium. Capitol Hill and the media would be in full pitchfork mode.

So, have consumers been scammed? It’s obvious that many, possibly most, imported “organic” foods — especially fruits and vegetables — do not meet U.S. organic standards. If they were sprayed with non-organic pesticides, they are not organic. If cows were fed non-organic grains, the milk they produce is not organic. If NOP officials did not conduct on-site inspections of international exporters, and only relied on the word of the exporting country, there is no way to have confidence the crops or goods shipped here are really organic. This means many of our organic dairy products, from milk to yogurt to ice cream, probably do not meet organic labeling requirements. Same goes for other animals; any meat, such as chicken breasts or ground beef, sold as organic, likely is not.

LooseGoose wrote:

steveschneider wrote:Goose what’s the diff between organic and local farm fresh? We have local growers that hold a farmers market and the produce is dynamite.

Local growers are usually the best - organic or not.  Why?   Because most times they're growing for their family so they're careful of the inputs.  Not wanting to pass up a chance to drag raw milk into a thread - it was always a saying among old farmers to not trust a farmer that wouldn't drink his own milk.   Obviously if he didn't trust his own cleanliness, you shouldn't.

Organic is a set of guidelines - basically for crops/produce they have to be grown on land that has had not chemical fertilizers or pesticides on it for 3 years and none used during production.  

For animals you can't use antibiotics, must use feed produced according to organic guidelines, and they have to have pretty much constant access to outside air and light.

The problem is that much of the industry is self regulated and inspected.  With the huge premiums paid for certified organic the temptation to cheat is powerful.  Why?  Because it soooooooooo easy to cheat and the profits for doing so are enormous.

I've been on all sides of this - bought commercially from many organic farms, got processing plants certified and then operated them while maintaining organic standards.  I can tell you from my experience that many are very sincere and honest but there are cheats all over because the penalties are wrist slaps.

steveschneider wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

Local growers are usually the best - organic or not.  Why?   Because most times they're growing for their family so they're careful of the inputs.  Not wanting to pass up a chance to drag raw milk into a thread - it was always a saying among old farmers to not trust a farmer that wouldn't drink his own milk.   Obviously if he didn't trust his own cleanliness, you shouldn't.

Organic is a set of guidelines - basically for crops/produce they have to be grown on land that has had not chemical fertilizers or pesticides on it for 3 years and none used during production.  

For animals you can't use antibiotics, must use feed produced according to organic guidelines, and they have to have pretty much constant access to outside air and light.

The problem is that much of the industry is self regulated and inspected.  With the huge premiums paid for certified organic the temptation to cheat is powerful.  Why?  Because it soooooooooo easy to cheat and the profits for doing so are enormous.

I've been on all sides of this - bought commercially from many organic farms, got processing plants certified and then operated them while maintaining organic standards.  I can tell you from my experience that many are very sincere and honest but there are cheats all over because the penalties are wrist slaps.

Good to know and very interesting. Once I started noticing big giant food corporations were putting organic labels on their food I figured it had become a racket. Like I said buying from the farmers market is night and day better than the stuff at the grocery store including the high end grocery store that caters to the Whole Foods crowd.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:"those people"

Let me guess... They all look alike, too.

DWags wrote:

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:"those people"

Let me guess... They all look alike, too.

 Mostly like contestants on game shows to me.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Nice people are the fucking worst. I always hope the cashier hates their job and doesn’t look at me.

steveschneider wrote:

DWags wrote:
 Mostly like contestants on game shows to me.

The worst is when you go to a place where the sales reps work on commission and all you are there to do is browse. The small talk is the worse.

Death Roe wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

The worst is when you go to a place where the sales reps work on commission and all you are there to do is browse. The small talk is the worse.

Holy shit, Best Buy has gotten so bad. We went there Saturday to look at some appliances, and no matter where we went in the store, at least 4 people in each section asked if we were doing okay.

I admire the dedication to making sure people are helped, but damn, ease up just a touch.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

Good to know and very interesting. Once I started noticing big giant food corporations were putting organic labels on their food I figured it had become a racket. Like I said buying from the farmers market is night and day better than the stuff at the grocery store including the high end grocery store that caters to the Whole Foods crowd.

I was at Whole Foods yesterday - those people make me laugh.

I was checking out and I stood there smirking at the cashier the entire time as he thanked me for bring my own bag, thanked me for rounding my total up to the nearest dollar for charity, thanked me for donating my "bring your own bag" credit to charity.. he kept looking at me and I was waiting on him to ask me what I was smirking at.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:I've been telling people this for years.

Congress Should Investigate the Organic Scam

so you want the government involved in people's personal lives and their decisions on how/what to feed their families?

DWags wrote:Dont' know about you guys, but I became skeptical when "organic" milk was stamped that it was good for 3 or 4 weeks before it spoiled.  I said to the wife, it it's organic, why does it have such a shelf life?

steveschneider wrote:Good to know and very interesting. Once I started noticing big giant food corporations were putting organic labels on their food I figured it had become a racket. Like I said buying from the farmers market is night and day better than the stuff at the grocery store including the high end grocery store that caters to the Whole Foods crowd.

LooseGoose wrote:

steveschneider wrote:Good to know and very interesting. Once I started noticing big giant food corporations were putting organic labels on their food I figured it had become a racket. Like I said buying from the farmers market is night and day better than the stuff at the grocery store including the high end grocery store that caters to the Whole Foods crowd.

3 Biggest differences for me:

Tomatoes. - locally garden grown are so much more flavorful and tender.

Watermelon - I would guess that 1 in 5 watermelons bought in a grocery store are good. The rest are woody and lack flavor.

Muskmelon - I'd quit eating them because the grocery store varieties were just awful. Found one family up here that grows them and the difference is amazing. I'll happily wait for next summer rather than buy any more crap ones.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:tha fuck is muskmelon???

Death Roe wrote:Yeah I hate getting good customer service, and having nice people at the registers when I shop.

NigelUno wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:I was at Whole Foods yesterday - those people make me laugh.

I was checking out and I stood there smirking at the cashier the entire time as he thanked me for bring my own bag, thanked me for rounding my total up to the nearest dollar for charity, thanked me for donating my "bring your own bag" credit to charity.. he kept looking at me and I was waiting on him to ask me what I was smirking at.

What the hell are you buying at Whole Foods?

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:tha fuck is muskmelon???

Death Roe wrote:Trader Joe's just opened in Kalamazoo, maybe I'll go in there once the smug dies down in the store.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:some guy driving a car with a "Coexist" bumper sticker almost ran over me in the Whole Foods parking lot.

I thought that was kinda funny.