Rolling Stone on the Big Ten and OSU

More stuff on how how OSU is the savior of the Big 10. To be honest, this whole narrative that the Big 10 needs OSU or UM to be good is nauseating. But is it true? MSU has compiled 54 wins in five years. MSU won 13 games last season and the Rose Bowl. But most of the media wants to talk about OSU and now Harbaugh. I would normally say that wins is all that a conference needs no matter who gets them, but maybe that is not true.

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/the-college-football-championship-ohio-state-and-the-big-tens-brave-new-world-20150108

The narrative is going to have to change, and it should start changing at BTN. If it doesn't, then it makes the conference dependent on 2 schools instead of 14. The B1G offices can't have all O$U alum handing out trophys at the CCG, and gush all over Meyer, while saying that what MSU has done is great and all, but no way is it sustainable.

Hopefully once Delaney steps down, we might get a conference commish that cares about the conference.

if everyone knew how classless and corrupt O$U and SCum were, it would definitely help to promote us by virtue of comparison... this starts with the media

Funny I never read about how the Eatern Division needs the Red Sox or the Yankees to do good. The team with the best record (most wins) wins the division and goes to the playoffs.

steveschneider wrote:Funny I never read about how the Eatern Division needs the Red Sox or the Yankees to do good. The team with the best record (most wins) wins the division and goes to the playoffs.

To be considered good and get national respect, does the Pac 12 need USC to be a title contender? Comparatively, Oregon's success is new. Oregon arrived is the last 15 years and is not a traditional power in CFB (yet). But somehow, even when USC is down, we do not hear anything about the Pac 12 needing USC to be good so they can save the conference. Does the Big 12 need Texas? I realize the Big 12 did not make the playoff, but the Big 12 was considered better than the Big 10 all year and its best teams were TCU and Baylor. Neither are traditional powers in CFB. It seems like no matter how much national prominence a team achieves in the Big 10, the talk is always the same...the conference needs OSU and UM to be good as well. I think you're right and it does start in the Big 10 offices. OSU and UM are cash cows, and from that perspective the Big 10 pushes the idea those schools need to be nationally relevant.

"But the truth is, the Big Ten (outside of Ohio State) still has a long way to go."

JFC, how many more double-digit winning seasons does MSU have to put up before this narrative goes away? How many more BCS/NY6 games does MSU need to win?

MSU is relevant. Wisconsin was relevant when they were in BCS games every year. Same with PSU.

But the XX conference "needs" ZZ & YY school argument will remain so until a school not named ZZ and YY wins a National Championship in the modern era. Until then, the national media and vast majority of the public will believe that schools not named ZZ & YY don't have the brand and resources to win one.

Turtleneck wrote:

To be considered good and get national respect, does the Pac 12 need USC to be a title contender? Comparatively, Oregon's success is new. Oregon arrived is the last 15 years and is not a traditional power in CFB (yet). But somehow, even when USC is down, we do not hear anything about the Pac 12 needing USC to be good so they can save the conference. Does the Big 12 need Texas? I realize the Big 12 did not make the playoff, but the Big 12 was considered better than the Big 10 all year and its best teams were TCU and Baylor. Neither are traditional powers in CFB. It seems like no matter how much national prominence a team achieves in the Big 10, the talk is always the same...the conference needs OSU and UM to be good as well. I think you're right and it does start in the Big 10 offices. OSU and UM are cash cows, and from that perspective the Big 10 pushes the idea those schools need to be nationally relevant.

Oregon is a huge brand. Thanks to the power of Nike marketing them they are a big deal now. That Joey Herrington mural in NYC was a big deal, and that type of promotion has done wonders for that program.

To hold these bowl games you need to have a fan base that will travel, shell out the cash and will get the casual fan to tune in.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:MSU is relevant. Wisconsin was relevant when they were in BCS games every year. Same with PSU.

But the XX conference "needs" ZZ & YY school argument will remain so until a school not named ZZ and YY wins a National Championship in the modern era. Until then, the national media and vast majority of the public will believe that schools not named ZZ & YY don't have the brand and resources to win one.

How many championships does Oregon have in the modern era? I had a longer reply, will try to remember it after lunch.

the bigger question, at least to me, is why do we want/need Rolling Stone magazine to respect MSU? I don't want or need it - it doesn't change how I feel about the college football landscape.

InTenSity wrote:
How many championships does Oregon have in the modern era? I had a longer reply, will try to remember it after lunch.

Oregon will be considered a fad unless they stay at or near the top for 10+ years or win a NC. They have 1 title game appearance prior to this year. 2 title game appearances in a 5 year span would probably get MSU in the same 'status' as Oregon in the minds of the national media. Still a notch below the likes of Alabama, USC, OSU, Oklahoma, FSU, LSU, Auburn, etc.

But MSU hasn't made 1 national title game appearance, let alone 2.

We're a blip on the radar until we prove we have national staying power by playing against and beating the top teams in the country for damn near a decade and/or win a national title.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:the bigger question, at least to me, is why do we want/need Rolling Stone magazine to respect MSU? I don't want or need it - it doesn't change how I feel about the college football landscape.

It is not about Rolling Stone, or even about lack of respect for MSU. It is about this repeated line that the Big 10 needs OSU and UM to be good. That standard, that the perceived traditional powers of a conference need to be good, is not held to any other conference than the Big 10.

Turtleneck wrote:

It is not about Rolling Stone, or even about lack of respect for MSU. It is about this repeated line that the Big 10 needs OSU and UM to be good. That standards, that the perceived traditional powers of a conference need to be good, is not held to any other conference than the Big 10.

meh.. doesn't bother me. I don't need external validation to support what I believe. If you were to subscribe totally to that mindset, you would believe that Taylor Swift is actually a talented musician and songwriter based on what the "experts" tell you..

kinda like I know what bands I like.. I don't need any sort of national media publication or entity to vault them into a perceived loftier status to satisfy my need for approval.

I know how I feel about MSU.. that's what matters (to me, anyway - you guys are welcome to grovel to ESPN, etc).

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

Oregon will be considered a fad unless they stay at or near the top for 10+ years or win a NC. They have 1 title game appearance prior to this year. 2 title game appearances in a 5 year span would probably get MSU in the same 'status' as Oregon in the minds of the national media. Still a notch below the likes of Alabama, USC, OSU, Oklahoma, FSU, LSU, Auburn, etc.

But MSU hasn't made 1 national title game appearance, let alone 2.

We're a blip on the radar until we prove we have national staying power by playing against and beating the top teams in the country for damn near a decade and/or win a national title.

I thought the discussion is why do O$U and um need to be good for the B1G to be perceived as good. It was argued that the PAC12 isn't considered down because USC is, since they have other teams, like Oregon. Anyway, I wonder if its the perception that there isn't enough talent in the north to support more than 2 teams.

meh.. doesn't bother me. I don't need external validation to support what I believe. If you were to subscribe totally to that mindset, you would believe that Taylor Swift is actually a talented musician and songwriter based on what the "experts" tell you..

I understand what you are saying, and to an extent it works in every sport except for college football. The magazines and newspapers influence the minds of those that are voting, since they are voting as well. If the AP says that Bama, LSU, TAMU, Auburn and Arky are 5 of the top 7 teams in the US, there isn't anyway to disprove it (for the most part) until the season is over. The perception is needed in order to see the team you might root for or like make it into the playoffs, until the human element is taken out, IE automatic bids for conference champions.

This year MSU controlled its own destiny, they started ranked in the top 10 and had they won all of their games, they would have been in the playoffs. Last year, had they started in the top 10, there was a very good chance they would have played FSU, instead they started unranked and finished 3rd or 4th.

InTenSity wrote:
I thought the discussion is why do O$U and um need to be good for the B1G to be perceived as good. It was argued that the PAC12 isn't considered down because USC is, since they have other teams, like Oregon. Anyway, I wonder if its the perception that there isn't enough talent in the north to support more than 2 teams.

That is a really good point. Ohio and Pennsylvania have quite a bit of talent. The rest of the Big 10 footprint has less by comparison. It is not like the SEC that can draw on Florida, Texas, Georgia, Alabama, and Louisiana.

InTenSity wrote:I understand what you are saying, and to an extent it works in every sport except for college football. The magazines and newspapers influence the minds of those that are voting, since they are voting as well. If the AP says that Bama, LSU, TAMU, Auburn and Arky are 5 of the top 7 teams in the US, there isn't anyway to disprove it (for the most part) until the season is over. The perception is needed in order to see the team you might root for or like make it into the playoffs, until the human element is taken out, IE automatic bids for conference champions.

This year MSU controlled its own destiny, they started ranked in the top 10 and had they won all of their games, they would have been in the playoffs. Last year, had they started in the top 10, there was a very good chance they would have played FSU, instead they started unranked and finished 3rd or 4th.

Very true. Perception is what drives DI-A CFB. It is a sport that that determines who is praise worthy based on perception as much as anything else. You have a committee that gets to pick who they perceive to be the best four teams for the playoff. All year we heard how the Big 10 champ could be left out because the conference was perceived to be weaker than the best teams from the other Power 5 conferences. In the end TCU was not perceived as being good enough to make the playoff but they are probably as good as anybody in the playoff, and the 3-4 schools ranked 5-9 are all probably better than Florida State.

Re: InTenSity,

Right, but it all circles back to OSU and UM.

The B1G isn't going to get any national respect until they win a Title. The national media is that there are only 2 schools powerful enough in the conference to do that.

The PAC isn't down because USC was dominant and winning titles more recently than the B1G, and Oregon has been in 2 of the past 5 Title games.

The Big Twelve isn't down because Texas and Oklahoma played in the title game over the course of the past decade and Texas won a MNC in 2005.

The Big Ten is viewed as "down" due to the lack of a recent title and getting their butts kicked by the SEC in bowl games over the past decade. (and probably also some regional slow white north bias). The only hope for the resurgence of the B1G lies with the two historical powers.

It's a false narrative, and we know it, but just trying to explain it.

Harbaugh just came out saying he will root for Ohio State in the championship game.

steveschneider wrote:Harbaugh just came out saying he will root for Ohio State in the championship game.

Cool. What time is he having dinner tonight? What is he going to eat?

Turtleneck wrote:

Cool. What time is he having dinner tonight? What is he going to eat?

let's check with ESPN...

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
meh.. doesn't bother me. I don't need external validation to support what I believe. If you were to subscribe totally to that mindset, you would believe that Taylor Swift is actually a talented musician and songwriter based on what the "experts" tell you..

kinda like I know what bands I like.. I don't need any sort of national media publication or entity to vault them into a perceived loftier status to satisfy my need for approval.




I know how I feel about MSU.. that's what matters (to me, anyway - you guys are welcome to grovel to ESPN, etc).

No? Then why do you repeat a given mantra a thousands time over?  Of course you're not looking for validation.

steveschneider wrote:Funny I never read about how the Eatern Division needs the Red Sox or the Yankees to do good. The team with the best record (most wins) wins the division and goes to the playoffs.

I don't think the Big Ten needs OSU or UM to do well. It doesn't really matter. Conference hoo-ha is meaningless.

But, I think MLB needs the Yankees/Red Sox to be in the mix every now and then. A post season needs those teams every now and then.

Turtleneck wrote:

It is not about Rolling Stone, or even about lack of respect for MSU. It is about this repeated line that the Big 10 needs OSU and UM to be good. That standards, that the perceived traditional powers of a conference need to be good, is not held to any other conference than the Big 10.

Honestly, I think it's more of a function of lazy reporting and easy money than anything else. Pick the easy narrative, bang out a quick story and include recent news to enhance credibility, sell more mags to the larger fan bases of OSU and SCum, profit.

Fuck em. Dantonio has this figured out. Just win the games, acquire the championships, display the trophies, be in the big time games, have America breaking records watching you in the cotton bowl for viewership, and let the little bitches whine about needing this school or that school to "be good".

Fuck em. Just win and watch them bitch. He's figured it out. We need to just let it go.

DWags wrote:Fuck em. Dantonio has this figured out. Just win the games, acquire the championships, display the trophies, be in the big time games, have America breaking records watching you in the cotton bowl for viewership, and let the little bitches whine about needing this school or that school to "be good".

Fuck em. Just win and watch them bitch. He's figured it out. We need to just let it go.

This

Toe wrote:
No? Then why do you repeat a given mantra a thousands time over?  Of course you're not looking for validation.

This is kinda where his love of calling out hypocrisy seems to be at odds with Bob's stances in regards to things he seems to care about.

For someone who lords over the brilliance of certain musicians (it seems, I don't pay much attention to music but Bob posts a lot), Bob seems to spend a lot of time talking about what a talentless hack Taylor Swift is.

My counter point would be - who cares. Don't pay any attention to her.

Personally I fail to see what the problem with Taylor Swift is. She seems to be someone who sings music songs that I don't really ever hear or pay attention to. She seems to be a young, mildly attractive female that is more pleasant to look at than her male counterparts. So what is the problem here?

Yet I see Bob posting about her over and over on message boards. Weird.

DWags wrote:Fuck em. Dantonio has this figured out. Just win the games, acquire the championships, display the trophies, be in the big time games, have America breaking records watching you in the cotton bowl for viewership, and let the little bitches whine about needing this school or that school to "be good".

Fuck em. Just win and watch them bitch. He's figured it out. We need to just let it go.

that's what I've been saying.. but apparently some people need to be validated by the media..

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

This is kinda where his love of calling out hypocrisy seems to be at odds with Bob's stances in regards to things he seems to care about.

For someone who lords over the brilliance of certain musicians (it seems, I don't pay much attention to music but Bob posts a lot), Bob seems to spend a lot of time talking about what a talentless hack Taylor Swift is.

My counter point would be - who cares. Don't pay any attention to her.

Personally I fail to see what the problem with Taylor Swift is. She seems to be someone who sings music songs that I don't really ever hear or pay attention to. She seems to be a young, mildly attractive female that is more pleasant to look at than her male counterparts. So what is the problem here?

Yet I see Bob posting about her over and over on message boards. Weird.

I prefer to post about SCum and how they ruined my life.. I guess my anger, rage and insecurities such manifest themselves in the personification of Taylor Swift..

Robert J Sakimano wrote:that's what I've been saying.. but apparently some people need to be validated by the media..

I think InTenSity had a very fair response to this line. Perception is important in DI-A CFB. While perception might not change how you feel about the team - and that should always be the case - it matters how others see the conference and team. Why? Well, for example, the teams included in the playoff are selected by a committee of people based on that committee'so perceptions of a range of potential qualifiers. In the end, perception does matter in this sport. Now, all MSU can do is win the games on their schedule. Nothing more. As a team, that is all they can control. As fans, that is all we should hope for. However, when it is all said and done, validation goes a long way.

Turtleneck wrote:

I think InTenSity had a very fair response to this line. Perception is important in DI-A CFB. While perception might not change how you feel about the team - and that should always be the case - it matters how others see the conference and team. Why? Well, for example, the teams included in the playoff are selected by a committee of people based on that committee'so perceptions of a range of potential qualifiers. In the end, perception does matter in this sport. Now, all MSU can do is win the games on their schedule. Nothing more. As a team, that is all they can control. As fans, that is all we should hope for. However, when it is all said and done, validation goes a long way.

I'm okay with us seeing it differently..

I'm not. Agree with me!!!

Turtleneck wrote:I'm not. Agree with me!!!

for a second there I thought I was back at tRCMB with it's "agree with me or be banned' mentality.. PTSD I guess.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:I prefer to post about SCum and how they ruined my life..

I got your back, Bob.

Realize this, though; SCum is posting about you and how you ruined their life. Sometimes it's all about perspective.

Bobby Sak is the original SCum killer.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
I guess my anger, rage and insecurities such manifest themselves in the personification of Taylor Swift..

I don't want to speak for everyone but I think we all can relate to this. I know I can, Bob  



It seemed obvious enough to me that she was a late bloomer... freakishly tall and awkwardly lanky in high school. Even worse, when her assets don't manifest themselves until later in life. And yet we'd never know if it weren't for the insecurities regarding men that she can't help but allow to be displayed in the public eye. She never learned how to deal with it all during the time in most of our lives when mistakes are easily forgiven if not concealed entirely and when the spotlight has yet to discover and illuminate our cherub mien

xsanguine wrote:

I got your back, Bob.

Realize this, though; SCum is posting about you and how you ruined their life. Sometimes it's all about perspective.

Bobby Sak is the original SCum killer.



I don't want to speak for everyone but I think we all can relate to this. I know I can, Bob  



It seemed obvious enough to me that she was a late bloomer... freakishly tall and awkwardly lanky in high school. Even worse, when her assets don't manifest themselves until later in life. And yet we'd never know if it weren't for the insecurities regarding men that she can't help but allow to be displayed in the public eye. She never learned how to deal with it all during the time in most of our lives when mistakes are easily forgiven if not concealed entirely and when the spotlight has yet to discover and illuminate our cherub mien

I'm not sure that her legions of middle school fans will fully understand your words.. but trust that I did.

you're a great American.

Turtleneck wrote:I'm not. Agree with me!!!

just agree that you need validation. It's the only way to a happier life.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:I'm not sure that her legions of middle school fans will fully understand your words.. but trust that I did.

you're a great American.

Bob, you are a True Patriot©

Toe wrote:

just agree that you need validation. It's the only way to a happier life.

I do not need validation. I do not need validation for MSU football or the Big 10. The success or failure of either has zero impact on my life.

But MSU football does need validation for MSU football, and the Big 10 does need validation for the Big 10. It sounds silly but perception is derived from validation, and more than any other college sport, perception manipulates decision-making in DI-A CFB. While different now, Michigan and Nebraska once shared a national title because the coaches and writers had different perceptions about which of the two was the best team. When you have a committee picking the playoff teams as opposed to something more objective - like winning your conference - it still comes down to perception.

xsanguine wrote:

Bob, you are a True Patriot©

thanks, man... I have my moments, I guess.