New Book on the Carolina Cheating case

by Guest 2015-04-08, 16:38

I still say their '09 title should be vacated.

If you remember (or have read about) Watergate, you’ll see how closely that debacle resembles the current scandal at UNC-Chapel Hill.

At first, a tiny bit of news emerged, indicating that something bad had apparently happened. President Nixon’s minions scoffed at the idea that the break-in amounted to anything, but reporters kept investigating; as the truth began to emerge, the White House went into denial and cover-up operations. In time, the whole truth came out, forcing Nixon to resign.

The UNC scandal has followed the same path. It also began with a breach of security—the security that surrounded the huge UNC operation to recruit top basketball and football players who weren’t close to being able to do academic work and yet keep them eligible. That breach involved football star Michael McAdoo and a plagiarized paper.

UNC officials were desperate to prevent the public from finding out anything more than the tiniest, least damaging scraps of information, but the truth got out and the scandal was instrumental in causing Chancellor Holden Thorp to resign.

A few people smelled a problem much deeper than just one player’s questionable paper and wouldn't swallow the official "nothing to see here" line. Due to their persistence, we eventually learned a great deal that UNC officials wanted to keep secret, namely how terribly deceptive and fraudulent its "keep the players eligible" scheme was.

Two of those people were Mary Willingham, who had for years worked in UNC’s Center for Student Success and Academic Counseling, trying to help students with academic weaknesses handle the work, and Professor Jay Smith, who has served in UNC’s history department since 1990. Together, they have written a book about the whole affair, Cheated.

It’s an insider book laced with just the right amount of indignation about the way the university has dealt with its star players—and also the way it tried to silence critics of its eligibility system. “The addiction to athletics, and to the revenues and alleged good will that they generate, has rendered good people mute in the face of abuses they know they should not tolerate,” Willingham and Smith write.

Although UNC has tried to maintain an image of running squeaky clean sports programs that ensure student-athletes a high quality education, for decades it has actually been recruiting players who shouldn’t have gotten out of high school, then ushering them through a “curriculum” consisting largely of easy courses with negligible educational value.

Cheated turns over a rock, fully exposing UNC's "student-athlete" scandal

by **Blanch32** 2015-04-08, 19:46

...and yet "everyone does it" is still thrown out there. Yea OK, UNC....

by Guest 2016-04-25, 18:11

Stewart Mandel ‏@slmandel 40m40 minutes ago
Stewart Mandel Retweeted Dan Wolken
How convenient.

Dan WolkenVerified account ‏@DanWolken
Reading closely, the NCAA also changed the start date of the fake classes from 2002 to fall of 2005. So Roy's 2005 national title is safe.

by **Death Roe** 2016-04-25, 18:16

Can we order 2009 national champs tees now? That'd be awesome.

by Guest 2016-04-25, 18:18

Death Roe wrote:Can we order 2009 national champs tees now? That'd be awesome.

Wellll.............

Stewart Mandel ‏@slmandel 2h2 hours ago
This specific phrase -- the only reference to the 2 revenue sports -- quietly goes missing in UNC's new NOA.

New Book on the Carolina Cheating case Cg6lkLtUkAAyLla

New Book on the Carolina Cheating case Cg6lkLtUkAAyLla

IT seems Women's BB is going to take the fall.

by **Blanch32** 2016-04-26, 09:53

Unbelievable. The corruption that is the NCAA is outstanding. No wonder izzo wants to coach the lakers

by **DWags** 2016-04-26, 10:05

Death Roe wrote:Can we order 2009 national champs tees now? That'd be awesome.

I'd like a hat.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2016-04-26, 10:20

Was the book written by a former North Carolina basketball player?

Just kidding. Get it? Cause they're total idiots who can't write a paragraph. Haaaaaaaaa.

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2016-04-26, 10:35

Just turn athletics into a major

by **The_Dude** 2016-04-26, 10:38

I mean, lets get real for a second here. Every high level D1 football or basketball player isn't a true student athlete. Lets not kid ourselves. They are all steered to remedial courses and majors.

I want to get outraged over this, but I just can't. Maybe UNC pushed this to the extreme, but every school does it. None of these kids at any basketball or football factory would be going to 'school' there if they weren't an athlete.

by **steveschneider** 2016-04-26, 10:55

College sports has rewarded cheaters over and over again. Two of this years final four teams have had major NCAA infractions or are under NCAA penalty.

I agree with the Dude's statement above and I think more people see it for what it is a minor league sports team with a universities name on it.

by **duffy munn** 2016-04-26, 10:56

The_Dude wrote:I mean, lets get real for a second here. Every high level D1 football or basketball player isn't a true student athlete. Lets not kid ourselves. They are all steered to remedial courses and majors.

I want to get outraged over this, but I just can't. Maybe UNC pushed this to the extreme, but every school does it. None of these kids at any basketball or football factory would be going to 'school' there if they weren't an athlete.

None of them ? Pretty broad brush here.

by **The_Dude** 2016-04-26, 10:57

duffy munn wrote:
The_Dude wrote:I mean, lets get real for a second here. Every high level D1 football or basketball player isn't a true student athlete. Lets not kid ourselves. They are all steered to remedial courses and majors.

I want to get outraged over this, but I just can't. Maybe UNC pushed this to the extreme, but every school does it. None of these kids at any basketball or football factory would be going to 'school' there if they weren't an athlete.

None of them ? Pretty broad brush here.

Ok. So 98% of them.

Feel better?

by **tGreenWay** 2016-04-26, 10:59

For the briefest moment, I read the thread title as Carolina Cheese case. Too bad I misread it. I like cheese.

by **The_Dude** 2016-04-26, 11:01

steveschneider wrote:College sports has rewarded cheaters over and over again. Two of this years final four teams have had major NCAA infractions or are under NCAA penalty.

I agree with the Dude's statement above and I think more people see it for what it is a minor league sports team with a universities name on it.

The word student athlete nowadays is a complete and utter farce.

Look who's been winning titles in hoops and football for the most part...all unethical and cheating bastards.

How the fuck does Ole Miss and Clemson, schools with worse football history than MSU, start pulling in top 3 classes consistently?

MSU won't ever win the playoffs--you simply need to stack multiple top 10 classes together. MSU gets good, but simply not enough of that elite talent to win back to back playoff games. Playing in the B1G, we can get weather games like last year in C bus to even the playing field a bit.

by **Rocinante** 2016-04-26, 11:04

My God you're the worst.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2016-04-26, 11:09

The_Dude wrote:I mean, lets get real for a second here. Every high level D1 football or basketball player isn't a true student athlete. Lets not kid ourselves. They are all steered to remedial courses and majors.

I want to get outraged over this, but I just can't. Maybe UNC pushed this to the extreme, but every school does it. None of these kids at any basketball or football factory would be going to 'school' there if they weren't an athlete.

you've clearly never been around our fine young scholar-athletes.

by Clarett's Folly 2016-04-26, 11:18

If I were a billionaire booster I'd be going full SMU for the Spartans. People would be calling us M$U online.
I'm more than willing to play by the rules but when the NCAA proves time and again that it has no intention of actually enforcing its rules then I have no interest in watching my school compete at a disadvantage.

by **steveschneider** 2016-04-26, 11:31

The_Dude wrote:
steveschneider wrote:College sports has rewarded cheaters over and over again. Two of this years final four teams have had major NCAA infractions or are under NCAA penalty.

I agree with the Dude's statement above and I think more people see it for what it is a minor league sports team with a universities name on it.

The word student athlete nowadays is a complete and utter farce.

Look who's been winning titles in hoops and football for the most part...all unethical and cheating bastards.

How the fuck does Ole Miss and Clemson, schools with worse football history than MSU, start pulling in top 3 classes consistently?

MSU won't ever win the playoffs--you simply need to stack multiple top 10 classes together. MSU gets good, but simply not enough of that elite talent to win back to back playoff games. Playing in the B1G, we can get weather games like last year in C bus to even the playing field a bit.

Was talking to someone the other month bout the NCAA tournament and he told me keep an eye out for University of Buffalo in the next couple of years. Told me they just got a good 'hook man' and they are going to start landing talent. I mean take that for what it's worth but the guy was dead serious and it wouldn't surprise me if it was true. I'm sure if they make the tournament is going to be like Bobby Hurley sure can coach but lets not forget behind every good college coach there's a 'hook man' that helped make it happen.

I propose we start a 'national hookman' appreciation day.

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2016-04-26, 11:39

Dude shut the fuck up about msu not being able to win the playoff we were just in the fucking 4 team playoff. You're smarter than this. Or at least I hope.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2016-04-26, 12:14

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:...I hope....

by **The_Dude** 2016-04-26, 12:30

Clarett's Folly wrote:If I were a billionaire booster I'd be going full SMU for the Spartans. People would be calling us M$U online.
I'm more than willing to play by the rules but when the NCAA proves time and again that it has no intention of actually enforcing its rules then I have no interest in watching my school compete at a disadvantage.

Welcome to the dark side, brotha. New Book on the Carolina Cheating case 969504605

by **The_Dude** 2016-04-26, 12:32

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Dude shut the fuck up about msu not being able to win the playoff we were just in the fucking 4 team playoff. You're smarter than this. Or at least I hope.

And how did that work out for us?

I am talking about *winning* the playoffs, not simply being there.

Do you get the difference?

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2016-04-26, 12:34

The_Dude wrote:
Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Dude shut the fuck up about msu not being able to win the playoff we were just in the fucking 4 team playoff. You're smarter than this. Or at least I hope.

And how did that work out for us?

I am talking about *winning* the playoffs, not simply being there.

Do you get the difference?

remember - you can't have an opinion unless it's the popular one.

oh, wait.. that was tRCMB.

at least you don't get banned here (usually) for having an opinion different from the popular one. New Book on the Carolina Cheating case 2599972566

New Book on the Carolina Cheating case 2599972566

by Guest 2016-04-26, 12:37

Clarett's Folly wrote:If I were a billionaire booster I'd be going full SMU for the Spartans. People would be calling us M$U online.
I'm more than willing to play by the rules but when the NCAA proves time and again that it has no intention of actually enforcing its rules then I have no interest in watching my school compete at a disadvantage.

Say the word and I'll start greasing some palms, I've got some extra chedda laying around here.....

New Book on the Carolina Cheating case Tumblr_lt57f8lCgQ1qe1pkvo1_500

New Book on the Carolina Cheating case Tumblr_lt57f8lCgQ1qe1pkvo1_500

by **The_Dude** 2016-04-26, 12:40

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
The_Dude wrote:

And how did that work out for us?

I am talking about *winning* the playoffs, not simply being there.

Do you get the difference?
remember - you can't have an opinion unless it's the popular one.

oh, wait.. that was tRCMB.

at least you don't get banned here (usually) for having an opinion different from the popular one.

That's true. I am allowed to say that I don't think MSU will ever win a national title unless they start to blatantly cheat here, and not get banned. It's great! cheers

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2016-04-26, 12:42

The_Dude wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:remember - you can't have an opinion unless it's the popular one.

oh, wait.. that was tRCMB.

at least you don't get banned here (usually) for having an opinion different from the popular one.

That's true. I am allowed to say that I don't think MSU will ever win a national title unless they start to blatantly cheat here, and not get banned. It's great!

mocked and ridiculed for having an opinion.. but not banned.. New Book on the Carolina Cheating case 502811600

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2016-04-26, 12:45

The_Dude wrote:
Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Dude shut the fuck up about msu not being able to win the playoff we were just in the fucking 4 team playoff. You're smarter than this. Or at least I hope.

And how did that work out for us?

I am talking about *winning* the playoffs, not simply being there.

Do you get the difference?

So we make the playoff in the 2nd year of being in existence. We get blown out.

This = never being able to win it. How is that? Logic, please.

by **The_Dude** 2016-04-26, 12:50

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:
The_Dude wrote:

And how did that work out for us?

I am talking about *winning* the playoffs, not simply being there.

Do you get the difference?

So we make the playoff in the 2nd year of being in existence. We get blown out.

This = never being able to win it. How is that? Logic, please.

MSU doesn't play by the same rules as OSU, Bama, etc. And now add UM to the list.

Until Dantonio stats pulling schollies, cutting kids, recruiting more unethically, hiring hs coaches as assistants to land a couple top 10 guys, I dont see us winning it all. The problem as I see it though is that big name schools like Bama, UM, OSU can do that because kids are willing to be treated like shit to play for those programs. There will always be a certain number of top kids that will never consider MSU because we aren't a big enough name. DPJ, for example, will not end up at MSU. Guaranteed. He wants the big name school like UM or OSU.

We had arguably the best OL in modern history last year and looked like school girls vs Bama. We never have a shot to land a dynamic QB like a Deshaun Watson either, which is what it would take to beat a Bama defense.

Just the way I see it. Doesn't mean we aren't a top program. We absolutely are right now. National title in football is just something I don't consider as a reality for MSU.

by **Blanch32** 2016-04-26, 13:01

The_Dude wrote:I mean, lets get real for a second here. Every high level D1 football or basketball player isn't a true student athlete. Lets not kid ourselves. They are all steered to remedial courses and majors.

I want to get outraged over this, but I just can't. Maybe UNC pushed this to the extreme, but every school does it. None of these kids at any basketball or football factory would be going to 'school' there if they weren't an athlete.

Even your beloved uofm?

by **Watch Out Pylon!** 2016-04-26, 13:08

Blanch32 wrote:
The_Dude wrote:I mean, lets get real for a second here. Every high level D1 football or basketball player isn't a true student athlete. Lets not kid ourselves. They are all steered to remedial courses and majors.

I want to get outraged over this, but I just can't. Maybe UNC pushed this to the extreme, but every school does it. None of these kids at any basketball or football factory would be going to 'school' there if they weren't an athlete.

Even your beloved uofm?

um doesn't need to cheat. The program sells itself.

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2016-04-26, 13:14

You keep bringing up OSU and UM. Havent we won the big ten the past 2/3 years while beating those exact teams to do it?

So that leaves us with bama and deshaun Watson. We got blown out by bama. Join the club. The rest of the nation is chasing bama as well.

Say that ole miss bama game goes differently. Bama not in the playoff. What happens then? Oh, we don't play by the same rules. That's right.
(Logic)

by **tGreenWay** 2016-04-26, 13:18

Blanch32 wrote:
The_Dude wrote:I mean, lets get real for a second here. Every high level D1 football or basketball player isn't a true student athlete. Lets not kid ourselves. They are all steered to remedial courses and majors.

I want to get outraged over this, but I just can't. Maybe UNC pushed this to the extreme, but every school does it. None of these kids at any basketball or football factory would be going to 'school' there if they weren't an athlete.

Even your beloved uofm?

He only adopted u-m because there isn't a football team at Bob Jones University.

by **The_Dude** 2016-04-26, 13:51

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:You keep bringing up OSU and UM. Havent we won the big ten the past 2/3 years while beating those exact teams to do it?

So that leaves us with bama and deshaun Watson. We got blown out by bama. Join the club. The rest of the nation is chasing bama as well.

Say that ole miss bama game goes differently. Bama not in the playoff. What happens then? Oh, we don't play by the same rules. That's right.
(Logic)

Are we talking about winning a natty or winning the B1G?

UM now has an elite coach willing to bend and break rules to win. OSU used to be the only B1G program to operate like an SEC school, now UM is also. In my opinion its a matter of when, not if Harbaugh wins a natty there.

Elite coaching willing to bend rules/be unethical and elite talent = natty.

MSU has 1 of the 3.

by **Blanch32** 2016-04-26, 14:30

The_Dude wrote:
Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:You keep bringing up OSU and UM. Havent we won the big ten the past 2/3 years while beating those exact teams to do it?

So that leaves us with bama and deshaun Watson. We got blown out by bama. Join the club. The rest of the nation is chasing bama as well.

Say that ole miss bama game goes differently. Bama not in the playoff. What happens then? Oh, we don't play by the same rules. That's right.
(Logic)

Are we talking about winning a natty or winning the B1G?

UM now has an elite coach willing to bend and break rules to win. OSU used to be the only B1G program to operate like an SEC school, now UM is also. In my opinion its a matter of when, not if Harbaugh wins a natty there.

Elite coaching willing to bend rules/be unethical and elite talent = natty.

MSU has 1 of the 3.

So you are a uofm fan. So shocking

by **The_Dude** 2016-04-26, 14:33

Blanch32 wrote:
The_Dude wrote:

Are we talking about winning a natty or winning the B1G?

UM now has an elite coach willing to bend and break rules to win. OSU used to be the only B1G program to operate like an SEC school, now UM is also. In my opinion its a matter of when, not if Harbaugh wins a natty there.

Elite coaching willing to bend rules/be unethical and elite talent = natty.

MSU has 1 of the 3.

So you are a uofm fan. So shocking

How so?

Because I dont follow the typical everything MSU does = good and everything UM = bad script? Because I realie its just collegiate athletics and to act extremely petty about it is kind of pathetic?

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2016-04-26, 14:57

The_Dude wrote:
Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:You keep bringing up OSU and UM. Havent we won the big ten the past 2/3 years while beating those exact teams to do it?

So that leaves us with bama and deshaun Watson. We got blown out by bama. Join the club. The rest of the nation is chasing bama as well.

Say that ole miss bama game goes differently. Bama not in the playoff. What happens then? Oh, we don't play by the same rules. That's right.
(Logic)

Are we talking about winning a natty or winning the B1G?

UM now has an elite coach willing to bend and break rules to win. OSU used to be the only B1G program to operate like an SEC school, now UM is also. In my opinion its a matter of when, not if Harbaugh wins a natty there.

Elite coaching willing to bend rules/be unethical and elite talent = natty.

MSU has 1 of the 3.

Natty. But the first step would be to win the big ten. Which OSU and uofm can't do as consistently as us right now. So don't you see where I have an issue with your take?

by **Blanch32** 2016-04-26, 15:27

The_Dude wrote:
Blanch32 wrote:

So you are a uofm fan. So shocking

How so?

Because I dont follow the typical everything MSU does = good and everything UM = bad script? Because I realie its just collegiate athletics and to act extremely petty about it is kind of pathetic?

Well, for starters your boner for harbs

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2016-04-26, 15:28

Blanch32 wrote:
The_Dude wrote:

How so?

Because I dont follow the typical everything MSU does = good and everything UM = bad script? Because I realie its just collegiate athletics and to act extremely petty about it is kind of pathetic?

Well, for starters your boner for harbs

See uofm and OSU can win a natty. But they can't beat us - who can't win a natty. This is just how it works.

by **tGreenWay** 2016-04-26, 17:32

So, no cheese?

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