Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
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Floyd Robertson
MiamiSpartan
Heat Miser
tTito
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DWags
Robert J Sakimano
steveschneider
Watch Out Pylon!
Turtleneck
InTenSity
The_Dude
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Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
http://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/2015/03/14/michigan-proposal-roads/70307352/
The_Dude- Pet Troll
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
Michigan should just go back to dirt roads.
InTenSity- Geronte
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
Who gets promoted if we vote yes? Or is this about banning Nigel?
Turtleneck- Geronte
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
If they explain exactly how they are going to use the added revenue, maybe.
Watch Out Pylon!- Geronte
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
Watch Out Pylon! wrote:If they explain exactly how they are going to use the added revenue, maybe.
I still don't understand how politicians don't grasp the concept that these proposals won't pass when they are overly complicated and convoluted.
They are all effing lawyers and making things complicated is just business for them.
The_Dude- Pet Troll
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
How are the roads in Michigan?
Michigan should just open up some toll booths and pay for the roads.
Michigan should just open up some toll booths and pay for the roads.
Last edited by steveschneider on 2015-04-13, 12:57; edited 1 time in total
steveschneider- Spartiate
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
big 'ol "NO" for me.
Robert J Sakimano- Geronte
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
that would be pretty sweet..InTenSity wrote:Michigan should just go back to dirt roads.
Robert J Sakimano- Geronte
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
Sure, I'll vote yes. It won't kill me and the roads will be better.
DWags- Geronte
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
steveschneider wrote:How are the roads in Michigan?
Michigan should just open up some toll booths and pay for the roads.
Awful, but with that said,
F tolls.
Other Teams Pursuing That- Geronte
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
can't imagine this passing... granted, I don't exactly hang out with the most influential people but I haven't talked with anyone about it who is voting "yes".
Robert J Sakimano- Geronte
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:steveschneider wrote:How are the roads in Michigan?
Michigan should just open up some toll booths and pay for the roads.
Awful, but with that said,
F tolls.
I just added up what I pay a year in tolls. Around $550-$600. My wife and I both drive, so I'm guessing it totals about $1k a year.
InTenSity- Geronte
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
Robert J Sakimano wrote:can't imagine this passing... granted, I don't exactly hang out with the most influential people but I haven't talked with anyone about it who is voting "yes".
I"d be surprised if it passed also. When it doesn't Snyder and the legislature, I'm fairly certain, will take it out on public education or something like that. They'll be paid for. Either by this tax or by robbing peter to pay paul and cutting public education and creating the need for higher tuition. I don't know, just have a feeling.
I don't think Toll roads work on a pennisula, maybe they do. I would love for somebody to tell me what's fair and I'll pay it. But I don't think I've read what's fair that I've really agreed with. Bottom line is we'll fork over money some way, and if we need too, that's fine. These roads just suck.
DWags- Geronte
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
steveschneider wrote:How are the roads in Michigan?
Michigan should just open up some toll booths and pay for the roads.
Agreed. Should return the taxes they're taking for the roads and toll it up.
They won't relinquish those sweet, sweet tax dollars, though.
Mmmm mmmm sooo good.
xsanguine- Geronte
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
I visited my parents in Michigan (Lansing) last month and they were bitching about the roads.
I dunno... compared to New York, at least Brooklyn... they didn't seem that bad.
I dunno... compared to New York, at least Brooklyn... they didn't seem that bad.
xsanguine- Geronte
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
The freeways certainly aren't as nice as Pennsylvania's or Ohio's, but those are toll roads so it makes sense they're that much nicer.
xsanguine- Geronte
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
yeah, the roads definitely suck..DWags wrote:Robert J Sakimano wrote:can't imagine this passing... granted, I don't exactly hang out with the most influential people but I haven't talked with anyone about it who is voting "yes".
I"d be surprised if it passed also. When it doesn't Snyder and the legislature, I'm fairly certain, will take it out on public education or something like that. They'll be paid for. Either by this tax or by robbing peter to pay paul and cutting public education and creating the need for higher tuition. I don't know, just have a feeling.
I don't think Toll roads work on a pennisula, maybe they do. I would love for somebody to tell me what's fair and I'll pay it. But I don't think I've read what's fair that I've really agreed with. Bottom line is we'll fork over money some way, and if we need too, that's fine. These roads just suck.
however, I prefer to have politicians be held accountable. Like cowards, they're passing their elected duties down to the taxpayers so they can then run around during the next election cycle proclaiming to the knuckle-draggers how they've never raised their taxes.
and, yeah, I agree with you on education. The only thing that the gerrymandered republican legislature values less than the people of Michigan is educating the people of Michigan. They need to make sure that the general electorate remains uninformed in order for them to maintain their power.
Robert J Sakimano- Geronte
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
If I know one thing, no $ should be coming from fucking education. We are still taking $ AWAY from ed? It's 2015, fuck.
Other Teams Pursuing That- Geronte
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
xsanguine wrote:I visited my parents in Michigan (Lansing) last month and they were bitching about the roads.
I dunno... compared to New York, at least Brooklyn... they didn't seem that bad.
Last year was effing insane. I remember Lake Lansing was reduced to rubble across the whole road in some sections. This winter wasn't as brutal and the roads didn't fall apart nearly as bad once everything thawed.
Roads will always be bad around here. I'm pretty much used to it.
Watch Out Pylon!- Geronte
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
Watch Out Pylon! wrote:xsanguine wrote:I visited my parents in Michigan (Lansing) last month and they were bitching about the roads.
I dunno... compared to New York, at least Brooklyn... they didn't seem that bad.
Last year was effing insane. I remember Lake Lansing was reduced to rubble across the whole road in some sections. This winter wasn't as brutal and the roads didn't fall apart nearly as bad once everything thawed.
Roads will always be bad around here. I'm pretty much used to it.
The one thing I did notice about Michigan is when you guys have a pothole... you have a motherfucking POTHOLE. Like you could tie Luke Skywalker's hands behind his back and make him walk the plank into that fuckin pothole.
Here we don't have as dramatic of holes (heh), but there's just a lot more of them scattered about.
xsanguine- Geronte
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
like I said, the republicans have a vested interest in keeping the electorate uniformed. An educated public would be cataclysmic to their agenda.Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:If I know one thing, no $ should be coming from fucking education. We are still taking $ AWAY from ed? It's 2015, fuck.
Robert J Sakimano- Geronte
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
Robert J Sakimano wrote:like I said, the republicans have a vested interest in keeping the electorate uniformed. An educated public would be cataclysmic to their agenda.Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:If I know one thing, no $ should be coming from fucking education. We are still taking $ AWAY from ed? It's 2015, fuck.
Bob, you're still my homie. Always fun chatting with you, brotha.
xsanguine- Geronte
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:If I know one thing, no $ should be coming from fucking education. We are still taking $ AWAY from ed? It's 2015, fuck.
Yes, its been a great plan.
1)Say that education doesn't work. Take money from the school system and 'privatize' it. Now with less money into education, complain that education doesn't work. Show that private, for profit schools with smaller classes in affluential area's work better than public, tax sucking money pits in run down area's and huge classes are a failure.
2)Make sure that your buddies are the ones running hte for profit schools
3)Profit
4)Get out before everyone realizes its a scam and hurt the children.
InTenSity- Geronte
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
thanks, dude.. right back at ya.. I have no idea why people think everyone has to agree with them all the time about everything.xsanguine wrote:Robert J Sakimano wrote:like I said, the republicans have a vested interest in keeping the electorate uniformed. An educated public would be cataclysmic to their agenda.
Bob, you're still my homie. Always fun chatting with you, brotha.
Robert J Sakimano- Geronte
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
xsanguine wrote:Watch Out Pylon! wrote:
Last year was effing insane. I remember Lake Lansing was reduced to rubble across the whole road in some sections. This winter wasn't as brutal and the roads didn't fall apart nearly as bad once everything thawed.
Roads will always be bad around here. I'm pretty much used to it.
The one thing I did notice about Michigan is when you guys have a pothole... you have a motherfucking POTHOLE. Like you could tie Luke Skywalker's hands behind his back and make him walk the plank into that fuckin pothole.
Here we don't have as dramatic of holes (heh), but there's just a lot more of them scattered about.
Truth regarding the pot holes in Michigan..
Why don't we do "Pot for potholes"? Legalize the mary jane, use that $$$ to fix our roads and continue to support human capital with education. Boom.
Elect me.
Other Teams Pursuing That- Geronte
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
InTenSity wrote:Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:If I know one thing, no $ should be coming from fucking education. We are still taking $ AWAY from ed? It's 2015, fuck.
Yes, its been a great plan.
1)Say that education doesn't work. Take money from the school system and 'privatize' it. Now with less money into education, complain that education doesn't work. Show that private, for profit schools with smaller classes in affluential area's work better than public, tax sucking money pits in run down area's and huge classes are a failure.
2)Make sure that your buddies are the ones running hte for profit schools
3)Profit
4)Get out before everyone realizes its a scam and hurt the children.
Want to get depressed? Set aside some time one night to watch this.
Watch Out Pylon!- Geronte
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
Don't tax me bro.
tTito- Geronte
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
xsanguine wrote:Watch Out Pylon! wrote:
Last year was effing insane. I remember Lake Lansing was reduced to rubble across the whole road in some sections. This winter wasn't as brutal and the roads didn't fall apart nearly as bad once everything thawed.
Roads will always be bad around here. I'm pretty much used to it.
The one thing I did notice about Michigan is when you guys have a pothole... you have a motherfucking POTHOLE. Like you could tie Luke Skywalker's hands behind his back and make him walk the plank into that fuckin pothole.
Here we don't have as dramatic of holes (heh), but there's just a lot more of them scattered about.
Watch Out Pylon!- Geronte
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:If I know one thing, no $ should be coming from fucking education. We are still taking $ AWAY from ed? It's 2015, fuck.
Fallacy.
We spend much more on education now than we have in the past.
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
xsanguine wrote:I visited my parents in Michigan (Lansing) last month and they were bitching about the roads.
I dunno... compared to New York, at least Brooklyn... they didn't seem that bad.
I've been off the road for 2 years or so now but this "Michigan has the worst roads" thing has been around longer than that. It's just not so. As X says take a trip to New Jersey, Connecticut and New York then come tell me about our roads.
I'd vote for a gas/diesel or miles driven tax, let the users pay for the roads. Quit taking road money out for mass transit, bike paths and other bullshit. If people want those things, again let the users pay.
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:xsanguine wrote:
The one thing I did notice about Michigan is when you guys have a pothole... you have a motherfucking POTHOLE. Like you could tie Luke Skywalker's hands behind his back and make him walk the plank into that fuckin pothole.
Here we don't have as dramatic of holes (heh), but there's just a lot more of them scattered about.
Truth regarding the pot holes in Michigan..
Why don't we do "Pot for potholes"? Legalize the mary jane, use that $$$ to fix our roads and continue to support human capital with education. Boom.
Elect me.
While not perfect in my view (I'm pretty much an anarchist)... it's a far better solution than enslaving stoners.
What we do now is some Old Testament shit.
xsanguine- Geronte
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
DWags wrote:Robert J Sakimano wrote:can't imagine this passing... granted, I don't exactly hang out with the most influential people but I haven't talked with anyone about it who is voting "yes".
I"d be surprised if it passed also. When it doesn't Snyder and the legislature, I'm fairly certain, will take it out on public education or something like that. They'll be paid for. Either by this tax or by robbing peter to pay paul and cutting public education and creating the need for higher tuition. I don't know, just have a feeling.
I don't think Toll roads work on a pennisula, maybe they do. I would love for somebody to tell me what's fair and I'll pay it. But I don't think I've read what's fair that I've really agreed with. Bottom line is we'll fork over money some way, and if we need too, that's fine. These roads just suck.
What's the logic here. Florida (a peninsula) is full of toll roads. Florida's roads are also pretty easy to maintain. Now they've got this new "toll by plate" deal where you don't even have to slow down. No toll booths. No toll operators. You just pass under some sensors & they take your money! How convenient!! And during rush hour, on the busiest roads, you can pay up to $8 to drive 5 miles in the "express lane".
It's funny (not really), but when the idea of tolls was originally sold, they were supposed to stop when the bonds that paid for the building of the roads were paid off. I've yet to see that happen. I saw they did it in Atlanta, but I've never seen it in FL. I think that's because, like with the lottery & education, the new funds end up being replacement funds instead of additional funds. The budget for the items stays the same & the extra money ends up taking the place of funds siphoned off to other areas.
So I wouldn't bet on this new bill magically fixing the roads in MI, assuming it passes, but you never know, maybe the government with get something right for once. Blind squirrel, right?
Heat Miser- Ephor (Operations)
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
I'm down with this.LooseGoose wrote:xsanguine wrote:I visited my parents in Michigan (Lansing) last month and they were bitching about the roads.
I dunno... compared to New York, at least Brooklyn... they didn't seem that bad.
I've been off the road for 2 years or so now but this "Michigan has the worst roads" thing has been around longer than that. It's just not so. As X says take a trip to New Jersey, Connecticut and New York then come tell me about our roads.
I'd vote for a gas/diesel or miles driven tax, let the users pay for the roads. Quit taking road money out for mass transit, bike paths and other bullshit. If people want those things, again let the users pay.
Robert J Sakimano- Geronte
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
I thought that MDX has to have construction going on in order to have tolls. That is why the Palmetto has never been completed and there is a revolving 5 year plan of what roads are getting fixed. All I know is that even before they start construction, they make sure that the tolls get in there first. Now the Dolphin has tolls running East and West, which is kind of bullshit. I'm not even sure you can drive anywhere in Miami without going through a toll anymore. Now the only way to get anywhere south of the Dolphin to downtown, without a toll is using US1.Heat Miser wrote:DWags wrote:
I"d be surprised if it passed also. When it doesn't Snyder and the legislature, I'm fairly certain, will take it out on public education or something like that. They'll be paid for. Either by this tax or by robbing peter to pay paul and cutting public education and creating the need for higher tuition. I don't know, just have a feeling.
I don't think Toll roads work on a pennisula, maybe they do. I would love for somebody to tell me what's fair and I'll pay it. But I don't think I've read what's fair that I've really agreed with. Bottom line is we'll fork over money some way, and if we need too, that's fine. These roads just suck.
What's the logic here. Florida (a peninsula) is full of toll roads. Florida's roads are also pretty easy to maintain. Now they've got this new "toll by plate" deal where you don't even have to slow down. No toll booths. No toll operators. You just pass under some sensors & they take your money! How convenient!! And during rush hour, on the busiest roads, you can pay up to $8 to drive 5 miles in the "express lane".
It's funny (not really), but when the idea of tolls was originally sold, they were supposed to stop when the bonds that paid for the building of the roads were paid off. I've yet to see that happen. I saw they did it in Atlanta, but I've never seen it in FL. I think that's because, like with the lottery & education, the new funds end up being replacement funds instead of additional funds. The budget for the items stays the same & the extra money ends up taking the place of funds siphoned off to other areas.
So I wouldn't bet on this new bill magically fixing the roads in MI, assuming it passes, but you never know, maybe the government with get something right for once. Blind squirrel, right?
/endrant /sorryforhijack
InTenSity- Geronte
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
LooseGoose wrote:xsanguine wrote:I visited my parents in Michigan (Lansing) last month and they were bitching about the roads.
I dunno... compared to New York, at least Brooklyn... they didn't seem that bad.
I've been off the road for 2 years or so now but this "Michigan has the worst roads" thing has been around longer than that. It's just not so. As X says take a trip to New Jersey, Connecticut and New York then come tell me about our roads.
I'd vote for a gas/diesel or miles driven tax, let the users pay for the roads. Quit taking road money out for mass transit, bike paths and other bullshit. If people want those things, again let the users pay.
Initially I wanted to disagree with this just due to my own personal philosophy.
But it really does make the most sense. I'm not a big fan of taxes but if you're going to tax... try as hard as possible to put the tax where it'll affect those using them the most.
It doesn't make sense to raise Bob's taxes (or yours if you're referring to biking/walking as being off the roads) when Bob is doing the earth and his health some good by riding a bike to work.
xsanguine- Geronte
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
Heat Miser wrote:DWags wrote:
I"d be surprised if it passed also. When it doesn't Snyder and the legislature, I'm fairly certain, will take it out on public education or something like that. They'll be paid for. Either by this tax or by robbing peter to pay paul and cutting public education and creating the need for higher tuition. I don't know, just have a feeling.
I don't think Toll roads work on a pennisula, maybe they do. I would love for somebody to tell me what's fair and I'll pay it. But I don't think I've read what's fair that I've really agreed with. Bottom line is we'll fork over money some way, and if we need too, that's fine. These roads just suck.
What's the logic here. Florida (a peninsula) is full of toll roads. Florida's roads are also pretty easy to maintain. Now they've got this new "toll by plate" deal where you don't even have to slow down. No toll booths. No toll operators. You just pass under some sensors & they take your money! How convenient!! And during rush hour, on the busiest roads, you can pay up to $8 to drive 5 miles in the "express lane".
It's funny (not really), but when the idea of tolls was originally sold, they were supposed to stop when the bonds that paid for the building of the roads were paid off. I've yet to see that happen. I saw they did it in Atlanta, but I've never seen it in FL. I think that's because, like with the lottery & education, the new funds end up being replacement funds instead of additional funds. The budget for the items stays the same & the extra money ends up taking the place of funds siphoned off to other areas.
So I wouldn't bet on this new bill magically fixing the roads in MI, assuming it passes, but you never know, maybe the government with get something right for once. Blind squirrel, right?
It's probably the Michigan winters. Water getting in those cracks and then freezing, coupled with the peninsula aspect, is prolly what he's talking about I'd imagine.
I mean... when I was in Arizona... fantastic roads.
xsanguine- Geronte
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
InTenSity wrote:I thought that MDX has to have construction going on in order to have tolls. That is why the Palmetto has never been completed and there is a revolving 5 year plan of what roads are getting fixed. All I know is that even before they start construction, they make sure that the tolls get in there first. Now the Dolphin has tolls running East and West, which is kind of bullshit. I'm not even sure you can drive anywhere in Miami without going through a toll anymore. Now the only way to get anywhere south of the Dolphin to downtown, without a toll is using US1.Heat Miser wrote:DWags wrote:
I"d be surprised if it passed also. When it doesn't Snyder and the legislature, I'm fairly certain, will take it out on public education or something like that. They'll be paid for. Either by this tax or by robbing peter to pay paul and cutting public education and creating the need for higher tuition. I don't know, just have a feeling.
I don't think Toll roads work on a pennisula, maybe they do. I would love for somebody to tell me what's fair and I'll pay it. But I don't think I've read what's fair that I've really agreed with. Bottom line is we'll fork over money some way, and if we need too, that's fine. These roads just suck.
What's the logic here. Florida (a peninsula) is full of toll roads. Florida's roads are also pretty easy to maintain. Now they've got this new "toll by plate" deal where you don't even have to slow down. No toll booths. No toll operators. You just pass under some sensors & they take your money! How convenient!! And during rush hour, on the busiest roads, you can pay up to $8 to drive 5 miles in the "express lane".
It's funny (not really), but when the idea of tolls was originally sold, they were supposed to stop when the bonds that paid for the building of the roads were paid off. I've yet to see that happen. I saw they did it in Atlanta, but I've never seen it in FL. I think that's because, like with the lottery & education, the new funds end up being replacement funds instead of additional funds. The budget for the items stays the same & the extra money ends up taking the place of funds siphoned off to other areas.
So I wouldn't bet on this new bill magically fixing the roads in MI, assuming it passes, but you never know, maybe the government with get something right for once. Blind squirrel, right?
/endrant /sorryforhijack
It does seem like sometimes they'll resurface a perfectly good stretch of road for no apparent reason. Maybe, as you say, to keep the toll up or to get federal $$$ that would otherwise be lost?
FYI...the toll is both ways on the 112 now too.
Heat Miser- Ephor (Operations)
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
yeah, but you had to live in Arizona. Yikes. Not my scene.xsanguine wrote:Heat Miser wrote:
What's the logic here. Florida (a peninsula) is full of toll roads. Florida's roads are also pretty easy to maintain. Now they've got this new "toll by plate" deal where you don't even have to slow down. No toll booths. No toll operators. You just pass under some sensors & they take your money! How convenient!! And during rush hour, on the busiest roads, you can pay up to $8 to drive 5 miles in the "express lane".
It's funny (not really), but when the idea of tolls was originally sold, they were supposed to stop when the bonds that paid for the building of the roads were paid off. I've yet to see that happen. I saw they did it in Atlanta, but I've never seen it in FL. I think that's because, like with the lottery & education, the new funds end up being replacement funds instead of additional funds. The budget for the items stays the same & the extra money ends up taking the place of funds siphoned off to other areas.
So I wouldn't bet on this new bill magically fixing the roads in MI, assuming it passes, but you never know, maybe the government with get something right for once. Blind squirrel, right?
It's probably the Michigan winters. Water getting in those cracks and then freezing, coupled with the peninsula aspect, is prolly what he's talking about I'd imagine.
I mean... when I was in Arizona... fantastic roads.
Robert J Sakimano- Geronte
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Re: Is anyone going to vote yes on Proposal 1?
xsanguine wrote:But it really does make the most sense. I'm not a big fan of taxes but if you're going to tax... try as hard as possible to put the tax where it'll affect those using them the most.
It doesn't make sense to raise Bob's taxes (or yours if you're referring to biking/walking as being off the roads) when Bob is doing the earth and his health some good by riding a bike to work.
My reference to being "off the road" was based on me spending about 5 years helping my sons get a business started. We delivered motorcycles to every state except AK/HI, over those years we averaged about 250,000 miles per year on our trucks and were literally in every corner of the US. We knew the roads both freeways and local roads pretty darned well.
Since I stopped driving for them I probably average driving about 300-500 miles a month so I use the roads very little. Even then with a user fee I'd feel that I paid my fair share because the companies that deliver things to me are going to pay those fees resulting in higher prices to me.
The problem with making it a straight gas/diesel tax as in the past is all the alternative fuels - CNG, Electric, Hybrids, Ethanol, etc, etc get "missed". Thus there is something to be said for mileage fees, but that isn't going to go over well with the "big brother" haters.
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» PAC-12 proposal to deal with one and done situation...... restore freshman ineligibility.
» Proposal 2 gerrymandering
» Proposal regarding empty SE Stadium seats:
» East Lansing voters OK marijuana proposal
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