Wait till natty game to evaluate MSU loss to Bama

I think it's clear that MSU wasn't at Alabama's level and I think most people agree. However, I've also heard pundits and others say that MSU really wasn't the 4th best team based only on the loss to Alabama. To me, you can't really say that until the natty game is played.

If Alabama blows Clemson out in a similar way, then what? To me, that would say that MSU's level was top 4, but Alabama's level is just in a class of its own. If Clemson competes, or wins, then the statement that MSU may not have been at a top 4 level has merit.

My personal opinion is that Alabama is just on another level and I expect Clemson to get blown out like Notre Dame got blown out by Alabama in the 2012 natty. I expect Clemson to score since they play a different style of offense than MSU, but I think it will be clear that Alabama is vastly superior.

Well...Clemson has a dual threat QB and runs a spread offense. Its kid of different. That is what you need to beat Bama. If it was a pro style team...forget about it.

The_Dude wrote:Well...Clemson has a dual threat QB and runs a spread offense. Its kid of different. That is what you need to beat Bama. If it was a pro style team...forget about it.

I don't believe it will matter. I believe Alabama is going to be able to adjust and I think they're extremely motivated to make a statement. Clemson may score early in the game, but Alabama will shut them down once Clemson's game plan is figured out.

I'll evaluate what I want when I want.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:I'll evaluate what I want when I want.

I know you will sweetie. Whose my big boy? You are Trav. You are.

Code_Warrior wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:I'll evaluate what I want when I want.

I know you will sweetie. Whose my big boy? You are Trav. You are.

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe!!!!!!!

I'm just gonna come here and let DWags tell me what I should think..

CFP had 4 teams.

All other teams can fight fur the #5 spot.

How fair is the NC game going to be? Bama gets unlimited practice time, while Clemson is limited to 20 hours this week because they start school before Bama does.

NigelUno wrote:CFP had 4 teams.

All other teams can fight fur the #5 spot.

Yes, but would a bowout of Clemson change your opinion of MSU's talent level relative to Clemson and Oklahoma?

Pundits are stupid. MSU slogged through games against Ohio state and Iowa and showed that when properly motivated, their O-line can dominate. There were multiple times in the first half that it looked like they could score and they crapped it away. After that it just got out of hand. I don't think it's a "on the same level" issue. I think it's a "didn't play their best game and needed it" issue. I think MSU could win 30% or better in x number of games against Bama. They have top tier talent. Just not a good showing. It happens.

Also, fuck Michigan. Can't wait until next year.

InTenSity wrote:How fair is the NC game going to be? Bama gets unlimited practice time, while Clemson is limited to 20 hours this week because they start school before Bama does.

It's not fair, but even if Clemson had unlimited practice time, I don't believe they have the talent to hang with Alabama.

Rocinante wrote:Pundits are stupid. MSU slogged through games against Ohio state and Iowa and showed that when properly motivated, their O-line can dominate. There were multiple times in the first half that it looked like they could score and they crapped it away.  After that it just got out of hand. I don't think it's a "on the same level" issue. I think it's a "didn't play their best game and needed it" issue. I think MSU could win 30% or better in x number of games against Bama. They have top tier talent. Just not a good showing. It happens.

With Cook's shoulder at 100%, 30% is a good number.  However, I believe that Cook's shoulder was nowhere near 100%.  It may not have been hurting him, but I think it was weak and much of his arsenal of throws wasn't available to him.

Code_Warrior wrote:

NigelUno wrote:CFP had 4 teams.

All other teams can fight fur the #5 spot.

Yes, but would a bowout of Clemson change your opinion of MSU's talent level relative to Clemson and Oklahoma?

Like a blowout would mean we're better than Oklahoma?

Seems convoluted. We're a CFP Top 4 team. A bad loss to Bama doesn't change that.

NigelUno wrote:

Code_Warrior wrote:
Yes, but would a bowout of Clemson change your opinion of MSU's talent level relative to Clemson and Oklahoma?

Like a blowout would mean we're better than Oklahoma?

Seems convoluted. We're a CFP Top 4 team. A bad loss to Bama doesn't change that.

No. Merely comparable to Oklahoma. To me, the talent levels of Oklahoma, Clemson, and MSU are comparable and in multiple games against each other, I would expect each team to win half the games. However, Alabama would win against all these teams 70-80% of the time.

Code_Warrior wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

Like a blowout would mean we're better than Oklahoma?

Seems convoluted. We're a CFP Top 4 team. A bad loss to Bama doesn't change that.

No. Merely comparable to Oklahoma. To me, the talent levels of Oklahoma, Clemson, and MSU are comparable and in multiple games against each other, I would expect each team to win half the games. However, Alabama would win against all these teams 70-80% of the time.

I'll go along with that. Bama is easily the best.

And whoever told me Bama didn't have a QB and can't throw, can fuck off. TIA.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:And whoever told me Bama didn't have a QB and can't throw, can fuck off. TIA.

It wasn't me.  In fact, i predicted that's what would happen here:
https://spartanswill.forumotion.com/t9434-if-bama-comes-out-slinging

Not that I'm some kind of prognosticator, it just seemed like an obvious game plan to me given our weakness in the secondary.

I don't need to wait. A 38-0 loss against anyone sucks big time. FCS schools are supposed to lose to FBS schools 38-0.

FBS schools shouldn't lose to other FBS schools by that amount unless you are Kansas or some dogshit program.

Giant Moose wrote:I don't need to wait. A 38-0 loss against anyone sucks big time. FCS schools are supposed to lose to FBS schools 38-0.

FBS schools shouldn't lose to other FBS schools by that amount unless you are Kansas or some dogshit program.

I understand that take, but I would counter that Alabama's talent level is unique among FBS schools and when they play FBS competition, it's similar to an FBS school playing an FCS school. I think Ohio State under Urbz gets close to Alabama's talent level, but last year's OSU game v. Alabama was more about Alabama taking OSU lightly, and OSU being extremely motivated. Alabama was up 21-6 on OSU, but they were able to come back and hang on. I think this year's Alabama team would smoke OSU just like they smoked us and I believe will smoke Clemson.

I'm pulling for Clemson.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:I'm pulling for Clemson.

You just want everyone to keep laughing at MSU. You gunky.

Code_Warrior wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:I'm pulling for Clemson.

You just want everyone to keep laughing at MSU. You gunky.

why would I pull for a cheater like Saban?

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

Code_Warrior wrote:
You just want everyone to keep laughing at MSU. You gunky.

why would I pull for a cheater like Saban?

Because it will make MSU great again by lowering Clemson to MSU's level and discrediting Alabama's accomplishment as merely being the result of cheating. Given your documented obsession with SCum, you could then take a page from the SCummer manual of fandom and claim the MSU loss is really a national championship.

Code_Warrior wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:why would I pull for a cheater like Saban?

Because it will make MSU great again by lowering Clemson to MSU's level and discrediting Alabama's accomplishment as merely being the result of cheating. Given your documented obsession with SCum, you could then take a page from the SCummer manual of fandom and claim the MSU loss is really a national championship.

but what about officiating?

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

Code_Warrior wrote:
Because it will make MSU great again by lowering Clemson to MSU's level and discrediting Alabama's accomplishment as merely being the result of cheating. Given your documented obsession with SCum, you could then take a page from the SCummer manual of fandom and claim the MSU loss is really a national championship.

but what about officiating?

C'mon Bob, you're slipping. Obviously Delaney arranges have a BIG officiating crew do the natty game to ensure that the game is played without a conference bias. Even though Delaney hates MSU, he needs OSU and SCum to be perceived well, so he will make sure that Alabama gets the benefit of the doubt. That way, when Bama smokes Clemson, MSU's profile is raised, but OSU can then claim that since they beat Alabama last year in spite of Saban's cheating, but MSU beat OSU this year but lost to a cheater, the net effect is that both OSU and MSU get a national title and SCum gets 2nd place for beating the other team in the SEC championship. Clemson just gets screwed because fuck the ACC, nobody cares about them anyway.

It's so simple I can't believe you didn't figure that out.

Nah... Fire Warner now!

Code_Warrior wrote:I think it's clear that MSU wasn't at Alabama's level and I think most people agree. However, I've also heard pundits and others say that MSU really wasn't the 4th best team based only on the loss to Alabama. To me, you can't really say that until the natty game is played.

If Alabama blows Clemson out in a similar way, then what? To me, that would say that MSU's level was top 4, but Alabama's level is just in a class of its own. If Clemson competes, or wins, then the statement that MSU may not have been at a top 4 level has merit.

My personal opinion is that Alabama is just on another level and I expect Clemson to get blown out like Notre Dame got blown out by Alabama in the 2012 natty. I expect Clemson to score since they play a different style of offense than MSU, but I think it will be clear that Alabama is vastly superior.

Huh? The MSU body of work this season did not qualify it to be a top 4 team. Sagarin predictor rating had MSU at like 22. We were the odd Duck in that 4 team playoff. OSU and Stanford were better teams, and would have had a much better showing against Alabama.

You guys want to know how I know we were a top 4 team? Because we won the games to get there. Crazy, I know. I probably should stop looking at results on the field and start paying more attention to some guy's predictor rating on a website with a bunch of meaningless stats.

Like who GAF about the scoreboard? STATS BABY STATS

Code_Warrior wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

Like a blowout would mean we're better than Oklahoma?

Seems convoluted. We're a CFP Top 4 team. A bad loss to Bama doesn't change that.

No. Merely comparable to Oklahoma. To me, the talent levels of Oklahoma, Clemson, and MSU are comparable and in multiple games against each other, I would expect each team to win half the games. However, Alabama would win against all these teams 70-80% of the time.

You are dreaming. Alabama, Clemson, and Oklahoma are comparable, with MSU behind Stanford, OSU, Mississippi, and TCU.

DoogieHouser wrote:

Code_Warrior wrote:
No. Merely comparable to Oklahoma. To me, the talent levels of Oklahoma, Clemson, and MSU are comparable and in multiple games against each other, I would expect each team to win half the games. However, Alabama would win against all these teams 70-80% of the time.

You are dreaming. Alabama, Clemson, and Oklahoma are comparable, with MSU behind Stanford, OSU, Mississippi, and TCU.

Nah. The big 12 is kind of fraudulent. No defense what so ever. OU is NOT in the same boat as Clemson/Bama. KSU, Ok St, TX Tech, and OU all got ran over. Baylor played and beat a soft ACC team.

Im not even sure Michigan State could beat Ole Miss. The difference in speed between Bama and MSU was glaring. Ole Miss beat Bama. They have the overall team speed that would give us major problems.

We need to upgrade speed at our skill positions on offense and in the secondary to serious contend for a natty.

The_Dude wrote:

DoogieHouser wrote:

You are dreaming. Alabama, Clemson, and Oklahoma are comparable, with MSU behind Stanford, OSU, Mississippi, and TCU.

Nah.  The big 12 is kind of fraudulent.  No defense what so ever.  OU is NOT in the same boat as Clemson/Bama.  KSU, Ok St, TX Tech, and OU all got ran over.  Baylor played and beat a soft ACC team.

Im not even sure Michigan State could beat Ole Miss.  The difference in speed between Bama and MSU was glaring.  Ole Miss beat Bama.  They have the overall team speed that would give us major problems.

We need to upgrade speed at our skill positions on offense and in the secondary to serious contend for a natty.

Being 2 wins away from a national championship isn't seriously contending?  Okay.

Rocinante wrote:

The_Dude wrote:


Nah.  The big 12 is kind of fraudulent.  No defense what so ever.  OU is NOT in the same boat as Clemson/Bama.  KSU, Ok St, TX Tech, and OU all got ran over.  Baylor played and beat a soft ACC team.

Im not even sure Michigan State could beat Ole Miss.  The difference in speed between Bama and MSU was glaring.  Ole Miss beat Bama.  They have the overall team speed that would give us major problems.

We need to upgrade speed at our skill positions on offense and in the secondary to serious contend for a natty.

Being 2 wins away from a national championship isn't seriously contending?  Okay.

No. We lost 38-0. Look at the athletes Clemson and Bama have all over the field...once our team looks like that, we will be serious contenders.

The_Dude wrote:

Rocinante wrote:

Being 2 wins away from a national championship isn't seriously contending?  Okay.

No. We lost 38-0. Look at the athletes Clemson and Bama have all over the field...once our team looks like that, we will be serious contenders.

Does your opinion change if Clemson gets smoked 38-0?

After MSU lost to Alabama in the Citrus Bowl we saw major changes and improvements that resulted in Big Ten Championships and wining the Rose and Cotton Bowls.

At the same time while Dantonio thought he was improving MSU to match up better against Alabama, Saban was improving what he had getting deeper depth charts and faster LB's.

MSU was good enough to beat Ohio State and umaa at their place, good enough to beat Iowa on a neutral field and all that was done with recruiting classes from 2011 through tentative 2016 ranked #31, #41, #40, #22, #22 and #15 so far in '16

Alabama's recruiting for the same classes: #1, #1, #1, #1, #2 and #9 in '16. All those 4* and 5* players and slippage in Tuscaloosa is from #1 or 2 to #9.

(both according to Rivals)

I think Dantonio smells the coffee again and we see a drift to more mobile QB's, better (faster) receivers and LB's who are faster/stronger than we have seen.

DoogieHouser wrote:

Code_Warrior wrote:
No. Merely comparable to Oklahoma. To me, the talent levels of Oklahoma, Clemson, and MSU are comparable and in multiple games against each other, I would expect each team to win half the games. However, Alabama would win against all these teams 70-80% of the time.

You are dreaming. Alabama, Clemson, and Oklahoma are comparable, with MSU behind Stanford, OSU, Mississippi, and TCU.

I believe that Alabama is going to smoke Clemson, but we'll know for sure Tuesday at about Midnight.

Code_Warrior wrote:

The_Dude wrote:

No. We lost 38-0. Look at the athletes Clemson and Bama have all over the field...once our team looks like that, we will be serious contenders.

Does your opinion change if Clemson gets smoked 38-0?

No. And Clemson wont get rolled.

The_Dude wrote:

Code_Warrior wrote:
Does your opinion change if Clemson gets smoked 38-0?

No. And Clemson wont get rolled.

Maybe next time the teams that you root for should win a few more games, then they might be selected. Don't go around discounting MSU being in the playoff. Top 5 team.

we'll always be #1 in my heart.