Rate MSU B-ball leaders

My request. Rate these guys in your own eyes 1-10 in two categories - 1)Leadership ability and 2)Skill level

Please post age and feel free to do a "N/A" if you're too young/weren't close enough to really have a bead on it.

WBH - age 38

Magic - N/A
Skiles - N/A
S. Smith - N/A
Respert - N/A / 9 (was too young to really know much about his leadership but he was unstoppable)
A. Smith - 9.5 / 5
Cleaves - 9 / 8
Draymond - 9 / 7
Valentine - 8 / 8.5

No real honorable mention to guys in between. We've had some good players but imo no one else belongs on this list.

gHost Spartan wrote:Mateen will always be the #1 Spartan hoops player for me until someone else wins a title. Going into the season everyone just seemed to know that Mateen was going to win a Natty for MSU. The confidence, the swagger, it was all there. The kid was one of a kind. Day Day in a way went out like a chump against Louisville, I remember him lying on the floor during the rout and it just made me so upset. Keep in mind that I'm not questioning his leadership or skills, but he wasn't able to bring home the Natty and when he went to the Final Four he was a sophomore and not really the true leader of the team. But he's still one of my all time favorite Spartans. Even if Denzel won the Natty then I still wouldn't place him above Mateen. Okay so I didn't answer your question the way you wanted it to but I'm really tired and falling asleep

Lock the thread.

Russell Byrd - 10/10

All of those players respect really doesn't fit in the mix. All of those dudes are really serious and intense respert was just fun loving. Granted, only Skiles had a similar offensive talent but still...

My first thought when reading the OP is a 38 year old dude never got to see Magic, Skiles or even Steve Smith at MSU. Damn, does that make me feel even older.

As for leaders

1. Magic
1b Mateen
2 Skiles
3 Day day
4 DV

Valentine goes to 1c if we win it all.

Blanch32 wrote:All of those players respect really doesn't fit in the mix. All of those dudes are really serious and intense respert was just fun loving. Granted, only Skiles had a similar offensive talent but still...

Byrd was pretty fun-loving. I remember him laughing in the huddle when the coach was trying to explain a play while everyone else was paying attention and serious.

2 Byrd "jokes"/references in one thread.

You crack yourself up.

NigelUno wrote:2 Byrd "jokes"/references in one thread.

You crack yourself up.

Klarissa Bell doesn't even think about Byrd this much.

duffy munn wrote:My first thought when reading the OP is a 38 year old dude never got to see Magic, Skiles or even Steve Smith at MSU. Damn, does that make me feel even older.

As for leaders

1. Magic
1b Mateen
2 Skiles
3 Day day
4 DV

Valentine goes to 1c if we win it all.

Duffy nailed it - championships trump and then it's just sifting through to your liking. I started watching MSU Magic's freshman year when I was 11. Dayum I'm old too.

I guess because maybe you grew up in a certain era at MSU, you cling to those who were big time them. For many people my age, Skiles will forever be out there willing victories on such undermanned teams where it was him carrying us.

However, that makes him my favorite all time, not the greatest leader. He fucking hated some people he played with. Did he make them better? Probably. But as a leader, who knows.

The all time great leaders are Magic and Mateen. Magic definitely directed the show, Izzo and Mateen directed the show when Mateen was there, so I'd give the slightest of edges to Magic. However, it's very slim. DV, jury is out. He makes great plays, but this team does drift once in a while. To me, instead of leading, he will try to do things on his own. To this point, it's worked. Love him though.

The rest, I'd put together as leaders and players. I do think though, as Day Day's rep grows in the NBA, his legend as a "leader" at MSU will grow with him. Now doubt, he was outstanding, but I dont' think he can quite join the Magic/Mateen class.

Giant Moose wrote:Russell Byrd - 10/10

is he the guy that kissed the floor?

sorry - I get them all confused.

DWags wrote:I guess because maybe you grew up in a certain era at MSU, you cling to those who were big time them. For many people my age, Skiles will forever be out there willing victories on such undermanned teams where it was him carrying us.

However, that makes him my favorite all time, not the greatest leader. He fucking hated some people he played with. Did he make them better? Probably. But as a leader, who knows.

The all time great leaders are Magic and Mateen. Magic definitely directed the show, Izzo and Mateen directed the show when Mateen was there, so I'd give the slightest of edges to Magic. However, it's very slim. DV, jury is out. He makes great plays, but this team does drift once in a while. To me, instead of leading, he will try to do things on his own. To this point, it's worked. Love him though.

The rest, I'd put together as leaders and players. I do think though, as Day Day's rep grows in the NBA, his legend as a "leader" at MSU will grow with him. Now doubt, he was outstanding, but I dont' think he can quite join the Magic/Mateen class.

Cool, glad to know that Jud did nothing.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

Giant Moose wrote:Russell Byrd - 10/10

is he the guy that kissed the floor?

sorry - I get them all confused.

I think he was the guy who did it in an opposing uniform while our fans celebrated, which is strange because one of the fans who celebrated this opposing player also fights opposing fans during games.

Played.

Jud was great. However, after the 4-4 start, I think Magic just said screw it, we need to play up tempo and I need to take over up here. As a leader, I think that stands out more to me. Had we lost another game, I don't know we make the tournament that year. That's why I think Magic edges Mateen. Izzo and Mateen were running the show together. I think Magic just took the bull by the horns out there his sophomore year and decided when to run and when to slow it down. Jud, being a great coach, knew when to let his guy run things.

Giant Moose wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:is he the guy that kissed the floor?

sorry - I get them all confused.

I think he was the guy who did it in an opposing uniform while our fans celebrated, which is strange because one of the fans who celebrated this opposing player also fights opposing fans during games.

oh, okay.. thanks.

I'm still unsure of who it was but I'll probably ask again later.

Here's where I was going with this one. Didn't have a ton of time today to follow up on it.

I think Denzel is the best player here definitely since Cleaves and/or Peterson. I think he might be better from an on-court standpoint than either. It's close with Mateen. Mateen had that Zeke/Clutch gene where you knew he was getting the ball on the last possession and he was almost always making the shot. But from an overall skills and controlling every aspect of the game, I think 'Zel may be better. He just does EVERYTHING, and he makes me shake my head multiple times per game as an adult and say damn that kid is unbelievable. Denzel might be the best player we've had since Respert.

Denzel is the undisputed leader of the team, but he's clearly more understated than Mateen was. Or even Draymond.

That got me to thinking....Mateen was the clutch guy, but he wasn't the leader until his Sr year. Antonio was just a bad fucking ass, and while you guys are saying it was Mateen and Izzo, I would argue it was Izzo and Tone who set the tone/foundation for this program. Tone was the first big recruit, he put the upperclassmen in their place as a true frosh, and he brought everyone else to the program. He wasn't a national-level player the way Mateen was, but I think Tone was a better leader.

It takes the right mix of skill and leadership to win a Natty. Tone had the leadership but not quite the skill. Mateen had a great mix of both. Denzel has the skill in my opinion without question. Does he have the other piece of the equation?

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Here's where I was going with this one. Didn't have a ton of time today to follow up on it.

I think Denzel is the best player here definitely since Cleaves and/or Peterson. I think he might be better from an on-court standpoint than either. It's close with Mateen. Mateen had that Zeke/Clutch gene where you knew he was getting the ball on the last possession and he was almost always making the shot. But from an overall skills and controlling every aspect of the game, I think 'Zel may be better. He just does EVERYTHING, and he makes me shake my head multiple times per game as an adult and say damn that kid is unbelievable. Denzel might be the best player we've had since Respert.

Denzel is the undisputed leader of the team, but he's clearly more understated than Mateen was. Or even Draymond.

That got me to thinking....Mateen was the clutch guy, but he wasn't the leader until his Sr year. Antonio was just a bad fucking ass, and while you guys are saying it was Mateen and Izzo, I would argue it was Izzo and Tone who set the tone/foundation for this program. Tone was the first big recruit, he put the upperclassmen in their place as a true frosh, and he brought everyone else to the program. He wasn't a national-level player the way Mateen was, but I think Tone was a better leader.

It takes the right mix of skill and leadership to win a Natty. Tone had the leadership but not quite the skill. Mateen had a great mix of both. Denzel has the skill in my opinion without question. Does he have the other piece of the equation?

We are about to find out if DV will always be mentioned in the same sentence as Mateen.
Valentine is a better basketball player than Cleaves but Mateen lead MSU to a National Title. I think Denzel can lead MSU there too and if he does he ranks in the top 3 without question.