Nigel's thread about Poor People

[The_Dude]

http://www.wnyc.org/story/could-you-come-400-emergency/

"A recent study conducted by the Federal Reserve Board found that nearly half of all Americans say they would have to borrow or sell something to come up with $400 for an emergency. "

[The_Dude]

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/05/my-secret-shame/476415/

[Floyd Robertson]

Shouldn't come as a shock when the average household has $15k in credit card debt, right?

Me, I just dig up one of the coffee cans in the back yard.

[Robert J Sakimano]

yes

[Robert J Sakimano]

on a side note, of those "nearly half of all Americans say they would have to borrow or sell something to come up with $400 for an emergency", I wonder how many of them possess items like smart phones, flat screen TV's and, ostensibly, live beyond their means to begin with.

It's not the 400 bucks for an emergency that they should be concerned with.

[Turtleneck]

Shouldn't come as a shock when the average household has $15k in credit card debt, right?

Me, I just dig up one of the coffee cans in the back yard.

Floyd, thanks for the dinner invite tonight. I can't wait to catch up. Can you PM your address again. I totally forgot it. Thanks!

[Blanch32]

400 is an emergency? Sounds like a weekend to me

[Blanch32]

And ftr I've had friends with kids beg me to lend them 20 spots bf. It's sad really, but they always insist on paying me back

[Rocinante]

Stupid poor people only have themselves to blame. If they worked harder at all the jobs that are available they'd have 400 bucks for an emergency.

Poor = dumb.

[Floyd Robertson]

Shouldn't come as a shock when the average household has $15k in credit card debt, right?

Me, I just dig up one of the coffee cans in the back yard.

Floyd, thanks for the dinner invite tonight. I can't wait to catch up. Can you PM your address again. I totally forgot it. Thanks!

I can find the 400 clams easy enough but the fridge is empty. No dinner for you.

[Robert J Sakimano]

waiting for someone to blame the government as opposed to holding the people in question accountable for their situation.

[Rocinante]

waiting for someone to blame the government as opposed to holding the people in question accountable for their situation.

A few years ago (well, like 10) 400 bucks would have been really hard for me to come up with without using a credit card.

I'm still digging out from under some of that poor people debt that I accrued.

[The_Dude]

waiting for someone to blame the government as opposed to holding the people in question accountable for their situation.

It's the American dream to spend $1.10 for every $1.00 you make!

[Blanch32]

waiting for someone to blame the government as opposed to holding the people in question accountable for their situation.

A few years ago (well, like 10) 400 bucks would have been really hard for me to come up with without using a credit card.

I'm still digging out from under some of that poor people debt that I accrued.

And you give me shit? Never once had any poor people debt ever.

[Rocinante]

A few years ago (well, like 10) 400 bucks would have been really hard for me to come up with without using a credit card.

I'm still digging out from under some of that poor people debt that I accrued.

And you give me shit? Never once had any poor people debt ever.

I never give you shit about money. I give you shit because you're a moran.

[Travis of the Cosmos]

I blame the government.

[Other Teams Pursuing That]

I'm one of them you guys!!!

[The_Dude]

Interesting:

"A 2014 analysis by USA Today concluded that the American dream, defined by factors that generally corresponded to the Commerce Department’s middle-class benchmarks, would require an income of just more than $130,000 a year for an average family of four. Median family income in 2014 was roughly half that."

[The_Dude]

So this is what defines middle class..A lot of people probably aren't middle class that think they are:

"In a 2010 report titled “Middle Class in America,” the U.S. Commerce Department defined that class less by its position on the economic scale than by its aspirations: homeownership, a car for each adult, health security, a college education for each child, retirement security, and a family vacation each year."

[Floyd Robertson]

Interesting:

"A 2014 analysis by USA Today concluded that the American dream, defined by factors that generally corresponded to the Commerce Department’s middle-class benchmarks, would require an income of just more than $130,000 a year for an average family of four. Median family income in 2014 was roughly half that."

We've basically redefined the three classes in the last decade.

Wealthy
Lower Middle Class
Poors

[Guest]

I'm one of them you guys!!!

You're forgivable - you haven't been working for 15 years. It's the 2 income people that have been working for years with 2 new/leased cars, annual vacations, etc, etc that can't come up with $400 that are sad.

[Guest]

Interesting:

"A 2014 analysis by USA Today concluded that the American dream, defined by factors that generally corresponded to the Commerce Department’s middle-class benchmarks, would require an income of just more than $130,000 a year for an average family of four. Median family income in 2014 was roughly half that."

And then you see the comparisons of what a "poor" family today has compared to a wealthy family in the 60's.   TVs, Washer/Dryer, Dishwasher, microwave oven, DVD player, Cars, cell phones, etc, etc, etc and it's not even close.

[The_Dude]

Interesting:

"A 2014 analysis by USA Today concluded that the American dream, defined by factors that generally corresponded to the Commerce Department’s middle-class benchmarks, would require an income of just more than $130,000 a year for an average family of four. Median family income in 2014 was roughly half that."

And then you see the comparisons of what a "poor" family today has compared to a wealthy family in the 60's.   TVs, Washer/Dryer, Dishwasher, microwave oven, DVD player, Cars, cell phones, etc, etc, etc and it's not even close.

True. Are you truly a 'poor' if you have modern appliances, a computer, smartphone, etc? Or do you just spend your money on bullshit instead of trying to build wealth?

[Rocinante]

Interesting:

"A 2014 analysis by USA Today concluded that the American dream, defined by factors that generally corresponded to the Commerce Department’s middle-class benchmarks, would require an income of just more than $130,000 a year for an average family of four. Median family income in 2014 was roughly half that."

And then you see the comparisons of what a "poor" family today has compared to a wealthy family in the 60's.   TVs, Washer/Dryer, Dishwasher, microwave oven, DVD player, Cars, cell phones, etc, etc, etc and it's not even close.

Do those things improve life?

I seem to remember as a poor person having a shitty washer and dryer that I had to buy from a used place and then fix with parts I bought on the internet and a car that needed to have the radiator replaced and a roof that leaked. The stress of being poor and trying to survive on such inadequate income was not improved by these things you seem to consider "conveniences". Should I have asked my wife to wash our clothes by hand with a washboard in the backyard and work her full time job? Should I have hitchhiked into town for my job since there was no public transportation between towns and I couldn't afford to live where I worked?

Please inform me about how I should have lived within my means as poor person. Please enlighten me on what I was doing wrong.

[Rocinante]

"build wealth"

LOL

You guys are clueless.

[I.B. Fine]

I'm one of them you guys!!!

OTPT, why does this make me think of you?

A guy is pacing in front of a Denver dispensary, his face fixed with a look of concern. A limousine pulls up. Out steps a well-coiffed man sporting a tuxedo.

"Sir," the man in front of the dispensary says, "I must ask you for a favor. My wife is in our hotel room and she is very sick. She has just run out of her medication and I don't know how much time she has left. If I could just have $100 to buy some more medication for her, maybe she can pull through."

The man in the tux says, "I'd like to help you, but how do I know you're not going to just turn around and spend it on weed in the dispensary?"

The concerned man responds, "Oh, I've got weed money."

Oh, this can't be you, you're not married!

[The_Dude]

"build wealth"

LOL

You guys are clueless.

Building wealth takes a lifetime, not a decade, not two decades, but a lifetime.

If you started even saving $60 a month in your early twenties, you'd be amazed what it would be worth 40 years later.

Sounds like you are the clueless one.

[Guest]

And then you see the comparisons of what a "poor" family today has compared to a wealthy family in the 60's.   TVs, Washer/Dryer, Dishwasher, microwave oven, DVD player, Cars, cell phones, etc, etc, etc and it's not even close.

Do those things improve life?

I seem to remember as a poor person having a shitty washer and dryer that I had to buy from a used place and then fix with parts I bought on the internet and a car that needed to have the radiator replaced and a roof that leaked. The stress of being poor and trying to survive on such inadequate income was not improved by these things you seem to consider "conveniences". Should I have asked my wife to wash our clothes by hand with a washboard in the backyard and work her full time job? Should I have hitchhiked into town for my job since there was no public transportation between towns and I couldn't afford to live where I worked?

Please inform me about how I should have lived within my means as poor person. Please enlighten me on what I was doing wrong.

I think they do improve life. Prior to having that "shitty" washer/dryer in your home the option was to either not wash your clothes or drive that unreliable car to an overpriced laundromat to wash your clothes. I said nothing about living within means, I was just pointing the many things that poor families have today that even rich families didn't have 50-60 years ago. Keep in mind I live in an area of thriving poverty so I'm not unaware of the issues. People around here keep vehicles running that many wouldn't be seen driving, they fix old appliances and keep them working but in many ways they are better off than their predecessors. While I recognize that it doesn't mean I support stopping any help.

At the risk of a complete thread hijack - my daughter and I have been having an ongoing discussion of a GBI. Given that any thought? Switzerland is about to vote on one. I support it, she thinks it's crazy that people her age would quit working en masse.

Here's a 538.com article on it from this morning. There are pro/con articles all over the internet on it if you're unfamiliar with the concept.

What Would Happen If We Just Gave People Money?

[The_Dude]

Do those things improve life?  

I seem to remember as a poor person having a shitty washer and dryer that I had to buy from a used place  and then fix with parts I bought on the internet and a car that needed to have the radiator replaced and a roof that leaked.  The stress of being poor and trying to survive on such inadequate income was not improved by these things you seem to consider "conveniences".  Should I have asked my wife to wash our clothes by hand with a washboard in the backyard and work her full time job? Should I have hitchhiked into town for my job since there was no public transportation between towns and I couldn't afford to live where I worked?  

Please inform me about how I should have lived within my means as  poor person.  Please enlighten me on what I was doing wrong.

I think they do improve life.   Prior to having that "shitty" washer/dryer in your home the option was to either not wash your clothes or drive that unreliable car to an overpriced laundromat to wash your clothes.  I said nothing about living within means, I was just pointing the many things that poor families have today that even rich families didn't have 50-60 years ago.   Keep in mind I live in an area of thriving poverty so I'm not unaware of the issues.  People around here keep vehicles running that many wouldn't be seen driving, they fix old appliances and keep them working but in many ways they are better off than their predecessors.   While I recognize that it doesn't mean I support stopping any help.

At the risk of a complete thread hijack - my daughter and I have been having an ongoing discussion of a GBI.   Given that any thought?   Switzerland is about to vote on one.   I support it, she thinks it's crazy that people her age would quit working en masse.

Here's a 538.com article on it from this morning.   There are pro/con articles all over the internet on it if you're unfamiliar with the concept.

What Would Happen If We Just Gave People Money?

For the love of God, if the goal is to get people to be independent and out of poverty, how is taking care of all their needs so they never have to work, look for work, or try to better themselves again a good thing?

I never understood the liberal concept that getting people on welfare and social programs actually helps them get out of the poverty cycle.  It enables them to be stuck in it for generations.

[Travis of the Cosmos]

Should I go ahead and move this thread now? I like to be a will of the people mod. This feels like I should move it. I'll do whatever the first couple of people who reply say.

[I.B. Fine]

Do those things improve life?

I seem to remember as a poor person having a shitty washer and dryer that I had to buy from a used place and then fix with parts I bought on the internet and a car that needed to have the radiator replaced and a roof that leaked. The stress of being poor and trying to survive on such inadequate income was not improved by these things you seem to consider "conveniences". Should I have asked my wife to wash our clothes by hand with a washboard in the backyard and work her full time job? Should I have hitchhiked into town for my job since there was no public transportation between towns and I couldn't afford to live where I worked?

Please inform me about how I should have lived within my means as poor person. Please enlighten me on what I was doing wrong.

I think they do improve life. Prior to having that "shitty" washer/dryer in your home the option was to either not wash your clothes or drive that unreliable car to an overpriced laundromat to wash your clothes. I said nothing about living within means, I was just pointing the many things that poor families have today that even rich families didn't have 50-60 years ago. Keep in mind I live in an area of thriving poverty so I'm not unaware of the issues. People around here keep vehicles running that many wouldn't be seen driving, they fix old appliances and keep them working but in many ways they are better off than their predecessors. While I recognize that it doesn't mean I support stopping any help.

At the risk of a complete thread hijack - my daughter and I have been having an ongoing discussion of a GBI. Given that any thought? Switzerland is about to vote on one. I support it, she thinks it's crazy that people her age would quit working en masse.

Here's a 538.com article on it from this morning. There are pro/con articles all over the internet on it if you're unfamiliar with the concept.

What Would Happen If We Just Gave People Money?

Goose, are you familiar with the Fair Tax proposal? Sounds somewhat like the Prebate aspect of that plan, though probably a higher amount for GBI.

[Rocinante]

Do those things improve life?  

I seem to remember as a poor person having a shitty washer and dryer that I had to buy from a used place  and then fix with parts I bought on the internet and a car that needed to have the radiator replaced and a roof that leaked.  The stress of being poor and trying to survive on such inadequate income was not improved by these things you seem to consider "conveniences".  Should I have asked my wife to wash our clothes by hand with a washboard in the backyard and work her full time job? Should I have hitchhiked into town for my job since there was no public transportation between towns and I couldn't afford to live where I worked?  

Please inform me about how I should have lived within my means as  poor person.  Please enlighten me on what I was doing wrong.

I think they do improve life.   Prior to having that "shitty" washer/dryer in your home the option was to either not wash your clothes or drive that unreliable car to an overpriced laundromat to wash your clothes.  I said nothing about living within means, I was just pointing the many things that poor families have today that even rich families didn't have 50-60 years ago.   Keep in mind I live in an area of thriving poverty so I'm not unaware of the issues.  People around here keep vehicles running that many wouldn't be seen driving, they fix old appliances and keep them working but in many ways they are better off than their predecessors.   While I recognize that it doesn't mean I support stopping any help.

At the risk of a complete thread hijack - my daughter and I have been having an ongoing discussion of a GBI.   Given that any thought?   Switzerland is about to vote on one.   I support it, she thinks it's crazy that people her age would quit working en masse.

Here's a 538.com article on it from this morning.   There are pro/con articles all over the internet on it if you're unfamiliar with the concept.

What Would Happen If We Just Gave People Money?

I think that's exactly what you want since you're clearly out of you depth talking about what it's like to be poor, and what the real options are for poor people.  

It's so easy to sit and cluck your tongue.

Go ahead and move it Travis, since now all of a sudden you want to actually do something.

[Travis of the Cosmos]

I think they do improve life.   Prior to having that "shitty" washer/dryer in your home the option was to either not wash your clothes or drive that unreliable car to an overpriced laundromat to wash your clothes.  I said nothing about living within means, I was just pointing the many things that poor families have today that even rich families didn't have 50-60 years ago.   Keep in mind I live in an area of thriving poverty so I'm not unaware of the issues.  People around here keep vehicles running that many wouldn't be seen driving, they fix old appliances and keep them working but in many ways they are better off than their predecessors.   While I recognize that it doesn't mean I support stopping any help.

At the risk of a complete thread hijack - my daughter and I have been having an ongoing discussion of a GBI.   Given that any thought?   Switzerland is about to vote on one.   I support it, she thinks it's crazy that people her age would quit working en masse.

Here's a 538.com article on it from this morning.   There are pro/con articles all over the internet on it if you're unfamiliar with the concept.

What Would Happen If We Just Gave People Money?

I think that's exactly what you want since you're clearly out of you depth talking about what it's like to be poor, and what the real options are for poor people.  

It's so easy to sit and cluck your tongue.

Go ahead and move it Travis, since now all of a sudden you want to actually do something.

I do things all the time roc! Like merge threads. Maybe once every two weeks or so. Like, I did that twice so far I think. I also moved a thread to the bin once.

[Rocinante]

I think that's exactly what you want since you're clearly out of you depth talking about what it's like to be poor, and what the real options are for poor people.  

It's so easy to sit and cluck your tongue.

Go ahead and move it Travis, since now all of a sudden you want to actually do something.

I do things all the time roc! Like merge threads. Maybe once every two weeks or so. Like, I did that twice so far I think. I also moved a thread to the bin once.

I prefer WHB's gorilla modding. Merge completely unrelated threads. Change titles. Ban people wantonly.

[Travis of the Cosmos]

I do things all the time roc! Like merge threads. Maybe once every two weeks or so. Like, I did that twice so far I think. I also moved a thread to the bin once.

I prefer WHB's gorilla modding. Merge completely unrelated threads. Change titles. Ban people wantonly.

You can only have one wild card. If more than one started doing that everyone would yell. He is a critical piece of the modding team here though.

[tGreenWay]

Four-hundred is nothing. I'd just sell one of my women.

[DWags]

I'm completely middle class. I have a boring life, I have a car, my wife does, we have a third car. We go on a couple or three vacations yearly, we hang at a boring cottage and drink boring beer. We will never be rich. I pray that I'm never poor. I'm as boring as you get. I'm as middle class as you get. My life is average. Always has been always will be. I'll die and have an average funeral, with most of my average friends coming. Or maybe not. I live in an average town in an average house. Average wife with average kids. I have two average cats.

I could come up with 400 bucks. I'm thinking a bunch of people could.

[NigelUno]

Whose thread?

[The_Dude]

I'm completely middle class. I have a boring life, I have a car, my wife does, we have a third car. We go on a couple or three vacations yearly, we hang at a boring cottage and drink boring beer. We will never be rich. I pray that I'm never poor. I'm as boring as you get. I'm as middle class as you get. My life is average. Always has been always will be. I'll die and have an average funeral, with most of my average friends coming. Or maybe not. I live in an average town in an average house. Average wife with average kids. I have two average cats.

I could come up with 400 bucks. I'm thinking a bunch of people could.

See, I agree. I would consider a household income in the 200k range with a couple kids to be middle class.

However, a lot of people would see your lifestyle and consider you upper middle class, easily.

I would personally consider rich someone who is above 350k a year in income and has assets of a couple mil or more. Somewhere around there.

[Guest]

I think that's exactly what you want since you're clearly out of you depth talking about what it's like to be poor, and what the real options are for poor people.  

It's so easy to sit and cluck your tongue.

I was trying to publicize a possible solution for poverty. We obviously need a new one since the existing efforts haven't made much headway since we started the war on poverty 50 years ago. I think directly giving the money to the people is much more effective than funneling it through 15-50 bureaucracies. My bet is that most people would handle the money just fine. Drop $$ every week on a universal debit card and you'd wipe out most homelessness and hunger.

I guess that's clucking my tongue.

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