Loose, here is the civil conversation you desire (re: Trump and Clinton)

I'm still waiting for all of those quotes I've supposedly put in here supporting Trump.

Still waiting for quotes from Romney and bush that the dems made them say just like the Dems made trump.

We're so close to being done with this for another 3ish years. You guys should be happy! Who wants a hug?

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:We're so close to being done with this for another 3ish years. You guys should be happy! Who wants a hug?

You really think trump is going to go away like a normal grown up would?

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:We're so close to being done with this for another 3ish years. You guys should be happy! Who wants a hug?

You really think trump is going to go away like a normal grown up would?

Assuming he loses, election law doesn't care what he does and in turn I don't care what he says and that makes me happy.

LooseGoose wrote:I'm still waiting for all of those quotes I've supposedly put in here supporting Trump.

So, you're NOT supporting Trump by making excuses for him? Why are you trying to spin him mocking someone? You really think he wasn't mocking that guy?

Come on. You're not that dumb.

NigelUno wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:I'm still waiting for all of those quotes I've supposedly put in here supporting Trump.

So, you're NOT supporting Trump by making excuses for him? Why are you trying to spin him mocking someone? You really think he wasn't mocking that guy?

Come on. You're not that dumb.

I don't think he's dumb he's just ignorant or melting down because Hillary is going to win. He still hasn't really defended his position in like 2 pages. Just spinning and talking about things that don't really have anything to do with the conversation.

xsanguine wrote:What personal liberties do we possibly stand to lose after Jan 1st? With Hillary I'm anticipating 2nd amendment rights as well as an outside chance at some 1st amendment rights. Trump I'd say Muslim looking fellers will be hassled more and long term possibly screw with our pocket books when he pisses off trade partners with his arrogant "deal making". What else?

How did you reach the conclusion that Clinton is more or a danger to the 1st Amendment than Trump?

Trump has said he would like to relax libel laws so it is easier to sue his critics, and publicly stated that media outlets like the Washington Post "will have troubles" if he is president. He once toyed with the idea of censoring, and blocking traffic to, parts of the Internet in the name of national security. The above certainly has significant 1st Amendment implications (speech and media). On top of that, "Muslim looking fellers" being "hassled more" by the government represents a major 1st Amendment issue (free exercise of religion). In her statements, Clinton has not articulated a threat to the 1st Amendment like Trump.

Many of the policies he has publicly articulated also contradict the 4th Amendment. For example, his call for more aggressive "stop and frisk" policies probably constitute "unreasonable searches and seizures." Between 1st Amendment issues and 4th Amendment issues, there are natural 5th Amendment issues regarding being "deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law." We could expand our criticism of 5th Amendment issues, talk about 8th Amendment issues, and connect some of this to completely undermining the 14th Amendment.

The 2nd Amendment is where you are right. He is very friendly to the 2nd Amendment, which is odd considering it exists out of fear for people like Trump.

pretty sure Goose is trolling you guys.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:pretty sure Goose is trolling you guys.

If that is the case, he should get an award because it is top notch trolling. Maybe he could be grand marshal of the Mio Days parade, or be honored at AmishFest 2017.

Turtleneck wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:pretty sure Goose is trolling you guys.

If that is the case, he should get an award because it is top notch trolling. Maybe he could be grand marshal of the Mio Days parade, or be honored at AmishFest 2017.

whatever you do, don't accuse him of supporting Trump.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:

If that is the case, he should get an award because it is top notch trolling. Maybe he could be grand marshal of the Mio Days parade, or be honored at AmishFest 2017.

whatever you do, don't accuse him of supporting Trump.

Absolutely. I wouldn't be proud of supporting an ass. Too bad about the Hills supporters. They'll get to spend the next 4 years defending her shit.

LooseGoose wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

whatever you do, don't accuse him of supporting Trump.

Absolutely. I wouldn't be proud of supporting an ass. Too bad about the Hills supporters. They'll get to spend the next 4 years defending her shit.

I don't believe the mainstream media and, because of that, I think she's an excellent candidate.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

Absolutely. I wouldn't be proud of supporting an ass. Too bad about the Hills supporters. They'll get to spend the next 4 years defending her shit.

I don't believe the mainstream media and, because of that, I think she's an excellent candidate.

lol, the MSM or 30+ years of evidence.

LooseGoose wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:I don't believe the mainstream media and, because of that, I think she's an excellent candidate.

lol, the MSM or 30+ years of evidence.

you mean the "evidence" perpetuated by the mainstream media?

like her email account.. or her coughing.. or her pantsuits.

Guest wrote:And BTW - wringing your hands that "we may not survive" a 4 year Presidency of one of the major party candidates isn't really conducive to a "civil" discussion. That's more along the lines of - hey let me tell you what a power hungry jackass that other guy is while trying to convince you we should settle for the crook.

Well, guest, it wasn't too far off was it? Hope all is well.

Turtleneck wrote:

Guest wrote:And BTW - wringing your hands that "we may not survive" a 4 year Presidency of one of the major party candidates isn't really conducive to a "civil" discussion. That's more along the lines of - hey let me tell you what a power hungry jackass that other guy is while trying to convince you we should settle for the crook.

Well, guest, it wasn't too far off was it? Hope all is well.

poor 'ol Goose.. I need to write another poem so I can bump his mainstream media-inspired manifesto.

It's not really hyperbole anymore. Now, with each passing day, it does feel like a real "Weimar moment." Fascism is no longer milling around on the sidewalk. We opened the gate to the front lawn in 2016, and now we are letting it sit on the porch with the front door unlocked. It is hard to read this book and not find striking similarities (which the author does not attempt to point out, you can deduce them on your own).

And the media is complicit. Today's headlines should only be about Trump telling Russia it can do whatever it wants and his continued use of the Mein Kampf playbook. I realize Biden is not ideal for a lot of people, but those people will have to get over it to protect us from a far greater danger. The people who push back on this are either too selfish, too ignorant, or Trump supporters. At some point, the first two just fold into the third.

[tw]1756527996758810651?s=20[/tw]

[tw]1756412015793279117?s=20[/tw]

The best tweet I have read regarding the 2024 election...

[tw]1747066450978709533?s=20[/tw]

Also, this guy gets it...

[tw]1753835925098922395?s=20[/tw]

Turtleneck wrote:It's not really hyperbole anymore. Now, with each passing day, it does feel like a real "Weimar moment." Fascism is no longer milling around on the sidewalk. We open the gate to the front lawn in 2016, and now we are letting it sit on the porch with the front door unlocked. It is hard to read this book and not find striking similarities (which the author does not attempt point out, you can deduce them on your own).

And the media is complicit. Today's headlines should only be about Trump telling Russia it can do whatever it wants and his continued use of the Mein Kampf playbook. I realize Biden is not ideal for a lot of people, but those people will have to get over it to protect us from a far greater danger. The people who push back on this are either too selfish, too ignorant, or supporters. At some point, the first two just fold into the third.

[tw]1756527996758810651?s=20[/tw]

[tw]1756412015793279117?s=20[/tw]

The best tweet I have read regarding the 2024 election...

[tw]1747066450978709533?s=20[/tw]

Also, this guy gets it...

[tw]1753835925098922395?s=20[/tw]

I think that what the last part of your paragraph is missing is that a lot of people who criticize biden are saying it in the name of making sure that trump doesn’t win. As in, maybe we need to be looking at someone else while there is still time (if there even is still time I don’t know how that would work). 

Biden may have been the best chance to win in 2020. I earnestly do not believe that that’s still the case. I think any number of generic democrat candidates would have a much easier time winning. None of them are running because none of them want to weaken biden because like all of us we want trump to lose, which means that the path to another candidate requires biden to not be running first.

Again it’s probably too late at this point and we’re gonna throw our hat in with the 50/50 at best shot on the guy who they’ve spent 5 years ruthlessly attacking.

Side note, I think one real answer to the Fox News propaganda problem is to not be so goddamn predictable all the time. Trump wouldn’t have won the first time if the democrats didn’t spend 6 to 8 years hand delivering that Hillary was the assumptive candidate and needed to be the focal point of their attacks for years in end.

Well Trump does know something about not paying bills.

But seriously I don't understand how this is even a race. What Trump is saying basically is against what I thought we stood for in a country. Wasn't it Vandenberg senator from Michigan that said politics should stop at the ocean shores.

gomersbro wrote:Well Trump does know something about not paying bills.

But seriously I don't understand how this is even a race. What Trump is saying basically is against what I thought we stood for in a country. Wasn't it Vandenberg senator from Michigan that said politics should stop at the ocean shores.

I’m not sure that the median voter reads a lot of vandenberg.

They don’t give a shit. Most voters are morons.

I think in 2016 people thought trumps rhetoric was funny. In 2020 they bought into the bidens “old” bit, with a hint of “yeah this guys potentially dangerous “. My gut tells me his continued escalation and rhetoric is sounding the alarm that his certifiably insane and a danger to democracy. He’s not hiding it.

At least I hope America has read the general election “room” correctly.

kingstonlake wrote:I think in 2016 people thought trumps rhetoric was funny. In 2020 they bought into the bidens “old” bit, with a hint of “yeah this guys potentially dangerous “. My gut tells me his continued escalation and rhetoric is sounding the alarm that his certifiably insane and a danger to democracy. He’s not hiding it.

At least I hope America has read the general election “room” correctly.

a few things..

a) this is a a good thread to bump. Our old friend, Guest, dating back to November of 2016 with his apologetic tone regarding his racist, bigoted, christian sexual predator hero. I know I told him after his christian hero was elected that it was gonna be a long 4 years for him at tSwill. He didn't make it that long.

b) it also proves each of us correct who were smart enough (and loved America and our families enough) to look past the mainstream media smoke and mirrors of 2016 and beyond.. and they're still going strong today.

c) the veil has been dropped. I think even some of the racist, bigoted christian sexual predator's biggest fans are tired of his act. I'm sure Guest is still cheering for him from the comfort of his recliner and cigarette smoke-filled living room, heart racing as he watches his Sunday morning propaganda - but I think a lot of (somewhat) regular folks who were duped in 2016 have some buyers remorse.

d) decent people who love America, respect the Constitution and the judicial system and still cherish traditional American values need to stay engaged, but not so much to buy into the mainstream media narratives. Understand that American democracy and all it represents is on the ballot in November.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:It's not really hyperbole anymore. Now, with each passing day, it does feel like a real "Weimar moment." Fascism is no longer milling around on the sidewalk. We open the gate to the front lawn in 2016, and now we are letting it sit on the porch with the front door unlocked. It is hard to read this book and not find striking similarities (which the author does not attempt point out, you can deduce them on your own).

And the media is complicit. Today's headlines should only be about Trump telling Russia it can do whatever it wants and his continued use of the Mein Kampf playbook. I realize Biden is not ideal for a lot of people, but those people will have to get over it to protect us from a far greater danger. The people who push back on this are either too selfish, too ignorant, or supporters. At some point, the first two just fold into the third.

[tw]1756527996758810651?s=20[/tw]

[tw]1756412015793279117?s=20[/tw]

The best tweet I have read regarding the 2024 election...

[tw]1747066450978709533?s=20[/tw]

Also, this guy gets it...

[tw]1753835925098922395?s=20[/tw]

I think that what the last part of your paragraph is missing is that a lot of people who criticize biden are saying it in the name of making sure that trump doesn’t win. As in, maybe we need to be looking at someone else while there is still time (if there even is still time I don’t know how that would work). 

Biden may have been the best chance to win in 2020. I earnestly do not believe that that’s still the case. I think any number of generic democrat candidates would have a much easier time winning. None of them are running because none of them want to weaken biden because like all of us we want trump to lose, which means that the path to another candidate requires biden to not be running first.

Again it’s probably too late at this point and we’re gonna throw our hat in with the 50/50 at best shot on the guy who they’ve spent 5 years ruthlessly attacking.

Side note, I think one real answer to the Fox News propaganda problem is to not be so goddamn predictable all the time. Trump wouldn’t have won the first time if the democrats didn’t spend 6 to 8 years hand delivering that Hillary was the assumptive candidate and needed to be the focal point of their attacks for years in end.

I agree to some extent about criticizing Biden to ensure Trump doesn't win, at least in terms of conversations among regular voters like us. However, I disagree about another candidate being able to beat Trump.

Trump received 10 million more votes in 2020 than 2016. His 74.2 million in 2020 is the second highest vote total in the history of presidential elections. While I don't think Trump will gain too many voters in 2024, it doesn't seem like he is losing many. I'm not sure what other Democrat could top that count. If Trump receives a similar number of votes in 2024, there would be a good chance he wins the electoral college if his opponent is unable to match.

The other issue is that Democrats are a less unified party than Republicans. Maybe 2024 will break form the norm, but Republican voters have historically rallied around their nominee where Democrats are more susceptible to splintering. Biden appeals to the core base of the party more than any other potential candidate I can think of. Yet, like you said, it is too late for this conversation anyway. Democrats will have to work with what they have, and voters are faced with a choice that is about far more than the direction of public policy.

It turns out simply disagreeing, even in a way that can provoke the rare productive discussion, is considered uncivil at tSwill.