Re: Mississippi governor signs law allowing businesses etc to refuse gay people

by **DWags** Fri 27 Jan 2017 - 12:12

http://journals.oregondigital.org/trforum/article/view/986
“This paper makes clear that the grant of pricing freedom to the airline industry has generally resulted in average prices being higher than they would have been had regulation continued...”

http://www.gao.gov/assets/260/250423.html
for those extolling deregulation is the 50 percent drop in airfares since 1980. Few know that the proponents own research argues that only a portion, perhaps a minor portion of that drop can be attributed to deregulation.

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d06630.pdf
Even the Government Accountability Office, a proponent of deregulation, had to concede back in 2006 that the slope of the downward ticket price curve was the same before and after deregulation.

Good book on it.

http://www.epi.org/publication/flying-blind/
Indeed, a 1990 study by Paul Dempsey of the Economic Policy Institute concluded that after adjusting for changes in energy prices, fares fell more rapidly in the 10 years before 1978 than during the subsequent decade.

Goose,, I know you like long reads. I'm not here to say I'm dumb ass enough to know what the outcome would be had we kept regulating the industry. The wife, in a past life as a lobby for the Natural gas industry could talk a blue streak about shit like this. I find some of it interesting.

As far as the other two here, dumb asses be dumb assing. I can ignore them. If you want, read and give me your opinion. I've always found it an interesting subject, especially owning a business. After some reading, and talking to people in the field, and this deregulation coming from both sides of the isle, it seems the airline industry is a perfect experiment to debate this.

by **Rocinante** Fri 27 Jan 2017 - 12:19

Shut up wags, you over the hill social justice warrior. With your facts and shit.

by **DWags** Fri 27 Jan 2017 - 12:38

Rocinante wrote:Shut up wags, you over the hill social justice warrior. With your facts and shit.

Yeah. I remember being young and pissed off too. Lots of em. Thus Trump.

by P Rob Fri 27 Jan 2017 - 12:48

DWags wrote:
Rocinante wrote:Shut up wags, you over the hill social justice warrior. With your facts and shit.

Yeah. I remember being young and pissed off too. Lots of em. Thus Trump.

You want pissed off? I give you pissed off.

Stupid fucking moron.

by P Rob Fri 27 Jan 2017 - 12:51

Rocinante wrote:Shut up wags, you stupid fucking suburbanite over the hill social justice warrior. With your red herrings and shit.

Fixed for accuracy.

by **DWags** Fri 27 Jan 2017 - 12:52

Wow. Ok.

by Guest Fri 27 Jan 2017 - 12:54

DWags wrote:No Goose, not quite. Our time in history made us think that shit worked. It didn't. In the following year of deregulation, oil prices dropped by about 70%, maybe you don't remember gas lines, or the embargo, or Jimmy Carter telling us to wear a sweater, but I do. When a bunch of new airlines got in the game, oil prices when downward, it did become much cheaper to fly.

One of my ex players is a pilot, he was telling me that the ten years before deregulation prices fell, way more rapidly than they did after deregulation. Now, you can be charged for a bag overhead, big time for checking bags on etc. Since degregulation, we've seen 4, now three companies corner the market, charge us for carry ons, etc. So, don't confuse oil prices coming down with deregulation of the airlines working. I'm not so sure it did.

I remember waiting in lines each morning in Florida to pump $2 worth of gas to get started home. But that's not really related to the cost of flying pre/post deregulation.

Part 4 : 1979 - 2010 : The Effects of Deregulation - Lower Fares, More Travel, Frequent Flier Programs

Result 1 : Airfares Dropped
In round figures, and in inflation adjusted dollars, airfares today are almost three times cheaper than they were in the late 1970s.

There is various data out there offering differing versions of this statistic, depending on the sources of the data they are using and the time period over which they are measuring the change. A July 2010 Wall St Journal article refers to the cost to fly one mile in 1977 as being 8.42c and in 2009, it was 13.5c. The article says that 8.42c in 1977 equates to 'more than 30c' in today's money. That would suggest fares are 2.22 times cheaper.

The WSJ article cites the Air Transport Association as the source of its figures. I can't find the data on their website, but they do have this fascinating page that shows airfare costs in 1978 (rather than 1977) and 2009 (with a different number than that quoted in the WSJ), plus a series of comparisons for other goods and services over the 21 years too. The ATA table shows that domestic air travel costs per mile increased from 8.49c in 1978 up to 12.07c in 2009, an increase of 42%. This contrasts with a weighted CPI that went from 65.2 up to 214.5 over the same period. In other words, the 8.49c in 1978 is the same as 27.93c in today's money, which contrasts with the actual cost of 12.07c - ie, 2.31 times cheaper.

There's one other interesting fact in this table - a table which is crammed full of fascinating facts great for your next trivial pursuit game. Note how the (unindexed for inflation) cost of international travel increased by 52%, compared to the unindexed increase of 42% for domestic travel. When you consider that international travel, although also now vastly less regulated than domestic travel, is still somewhat more regulated, this would seem to gently show, from another dimension, the benefits of greater deregulation.

by **DWags** Fri 27 Jan 2017 - 13:06

LooseGoose wrote:
DWags wrote:No Goose, not quite. Our time in history made us think that shit worked. It didn't. In the following year of deregulation, oil prices dropped by about 70%, maybe you don't remember gas lines, or the embargo, or Jimmy Carter telling us to wear a sweater, but I do. When a bunch of new airlines got in the game, oil prices when downward, it did become much cheaper to fly.

One of my ex players is a pilot, he was telling me that the ten years before deregulation prices fell, way more rapidly than they did after deregulation. Now, you can be charged for a bag overhead, big time for checking bags on etc. Since degregulation, we've seen 4, now three companies corner the market, charge us for carry ons, etc. So, don't confuse oil prices coming down with deregulation of the airlines working. I'm not so sure it did.

I remember waiting in lines each morning in Florida to pump $2 worth of gas to get started home. But that's not really related to the cost of flying pre/post deregulation.

Part 4 : 1979 - 2010 : The Effects of Deregulation - Lower Fares, More Travel, Frequent Flier Programs

Result 1 : Airfares Dropped
In round figures, and in inflation adjusted dollars, airfares today are almost three times cheaper than they were in the late 1970s.

There is various data out there offering differing versions of this statistic, depending on the sources of the data they are using and the time period over which they are measuring the change. A July 2010 Wall St Journal article refers to the cost to fly one mile in 1977 as being 8.42c and in 2009, it was 13.5c. The article says that 8.42c in 1977 equates to 'more than 30c' in today's money. That would suggest fares are 2.22 times cheaper.

The WSJ article cites the Air Transport Association as the source of its figures. I can't find the data on their website, but they do have this fascinating page that shows airfare costs in 1978 (rather than 1977) and 2009 (with a different number than that quoted in the WSJ), plus a series of comparisons for other goods and services over the 21 years too. The ATA table shows that domestic air travel costs per mile increased from 8.49c in 1978 up to 12.07c in 2009, an increase of 42%. This contrasts with a weighted CPI that went from 65.2 up to 214.5 over the same period. In other words, the 8.49c in 1978 is the same as 27.93c in today's money, which contrasts with the actual cost of 12.07c - ie, 2.31 times cheaper.

There's one other interesting fact in this table - a table which is crammed full of fascinating facts great for your next trivial pursuit game. Note how the (unindexed for inflation) cost of international travel increased by 52%, compared to the unindexed increase of 42% for domestic travel. When you consider that international travel, although also now vastly less regulated than domestic travel, is still somewhat more regulated, this would seem to gently show, from another dimension, the benefits of greater deregulation.

The other thing that deregulation has brought is the lively baggage fees. Wife and I are hitting up Pas a Grille in March for a couple weeks so the college girl says she could join us one week from Friday night through Wed night cause according to the syllabus no tests. OK I get her the ticket but called her back and asked if she could make the four days on a back pack and small suit case. I mean they've gone to charging ala carte everything. I'm pretty sure regulation puts that cost on the "total cost of flying" while now airlines can just say "this is how much for a ticket". Don't know if that's apples to apples.

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