How can the Democrats start winning?

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/taibbi-the-democrats-need-a-new-message-w484569

Not a huge Taibbi fan, but he had a few interesting points in the article above:

* Current polling shows that in a hypothetical rematch Trump would beat Hillary by a larger margin
* Though Trumps approval rating is low, Dems has dropped to 40%. It was 5% higher in November.

What can the dems do to start winning? Shift to the right?

steveschneider wrote:http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/taibbi-the-democrats-need-a-new-message-w484569

Not a huge Taibbi fan, but he had a few interesting points in the article above:

* Current polling shows that in a hypothetical rematch Trump would beat Hillary by a larger margin
* Though Trumps approval rating is low, Dems has dropped to 40%. It was 5% higher in November.

What can the dems do to start winning? Shift to the right?

They can start by telling Hilliary to take a nice relaxing vacation and please stop making appearances and saying shit about Trump. She is associated with being a loser, and yet, she seems like she's the mouthpiece for the party.

I forget the guys name, but when Trump said "We should make the Euro's pay more for NATO", why on earth would any fucking American congressman disagree with that? Publicly? What good does it do the Democratic party to disagree with it? The American Joe public says "fuck yeah" to shit like that, and you're going to try to explain to them why it's better that we pay more? Just concede those points and move the fuck on.

I dont' think the party has to sell it's soul or compromise ti's standards to win. We're closer than many think. I also think that in a year if the Health plan goes south, and tax rates don't do the tickling down they're supposed to do, and our public education system really starts losing quality teachers because of lack of pensions and salary, and manufacturing jobs aren't coming back because it's way more difficult to make that shit happen than threatening people, not only will the house change, but state legislatures will start swinging too.

They need to come up with more of a vision for the future. Less "that guy is awful vote for me" and more "if we win this is what the future looks like and how it will make your life better."

I agree with all three responses -

* Hillary you had your turn and you blew it. Stay in the fucking woods.
* Have a fucking message. The we are not crazy vote for us is not working.
* Screw what Michelle Obama said, when they go low lets go lower.

steveschneider wrote:I agree with all three responses -

* Hillary you had your turn and you blew it. Stay in the fucking woods.
* Have a fucking message. The we are not crazy vote for us is not working.
* Screw what Michelle Obama said, when they go low lets go lower.

Yeah that line was a nice sound byte until it got changed in November. "When they go low we go high then they win the White House and congress and fuck up the whole world so you know oops"

NigelUno wrote:Comey will testify in public next week.

#Winning

Does it really matter? As mentioned above trying to win with facts, good policy or counting on the scandals or corruption to tarnish the republicans is not working.

Its going to be a tough uphill slog.

An example of how tough is the news about USAA insurance that markets to US Military families and vets bowing to pressure from their policy holders to reverse course on begin to advertise on Sean Hannity's show on Fox cable channel again.

They don't mind  Hannity keeps repeating  that people connected to the DNC and/or the Clinton Presdential campaign are responsible for death of a DNC staffer.

If a significant number of vets who are customers of USAA have no issue with Hannity's desire to keep in repeating a story that FoxNews own source dscredited they won't hesitate to support anyone who demonizes any Democrat.

NigelUno wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

Does it really matter? As mentioned above trying to win with facts, good policy or counting on the scandals or corruption to tarnish the republicans is not working.

Republicans control the WH, Senate, and House. Not sure the Democrats can really win at anything right now.

Comey testifying carries a little more weight than anonymous sources though.

It's totally possible he has nothing game-changing to reveal.

NigelUno wrote:

CheesySpartan wrote:

It's totally possible he has nothing game-changing to reveal.

Or it's possible he'll testify that Trump asked him to shut down the Flynn investigation.

The so called secret memo that is supposedly unclassified but no one can get their hands on it with a simple FOIA request. If it exists Trumps fucked but until we actually see it I don't know what to believe.

Dragging this into a conversation about comey highlights something that I think is pretty interesting to think about (that actually relates to the thread.)

How much should we be hammering on things like Russia and comey and all that versus how much should we be talking about healthcare and things that impact people? I think there's a balance there. Random dude in Ohio doesn't give a shit about comey. He does give a shit if he loses his insurance or if his premiums go up. That's not to say that we should ignore the Russia thing, the president or his advisors or anyone related being compromised is a big fuckin deal, but the message has to be more than just that. Anyway, I don't know. It's a conversation to have. And gets us back on track here.

If nothing comes of the Russian collusion and the Comey stuff the Dems are going to be in trouble of actually losing more seats IMO. Not that the idiot Reps will get anything done even with more control.

CheesySpartan wrote:If nothing comes of the Russian collusion and the Comey stuff the Dems are going to be in trouble of actually losing more seats IMO. Not that the idiot Reps will get anything done even with more control.

Stuff has already come from it. If you're exclusively saying "impeachment or bust" then a) you're statement is probably wrong depending on democratic messaging and b) that's a silly way of looking at it since there is almost no way in hell that paul ryan is going to allow for that to happen outside of if somehow there's a situation where his choices are "raise taxes on the rich or impeach."

But yeah, I do think they should be talking a lot more about 23 million people losing their healthcare than Russia. Which, I guess depending on where you're looking they are, but not if your source of information is message boards or cable news. Since Russia and Kathy griffin is way sexier to talk about than healthcare policy.

NigelUno wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Dragging this into a conversation about comey highlights something that I think is pretty interesting to think about (that actually relates to the thread.)

How much should we be hammering on things like Russia and comey and all that versus how much should we be talking about healthcare and things that impact people? I think there's a balance there. Random dude in Ohio doesn't give a shit about comey. He does give a shit if he loses his insurance or if his premiums go up. That's not to say that we should ignore the Russia thing, the president or his advisors or anyone related being compromised is a big fuckin deal, but the message has to be more than just that. Anyway, I don't know. It's a conversation to have. And gets us back on track here.

Do Republicans want to talk about health care?  They control the WH, Senate, and House, and still can't figure out what they're going to do.

Is that more important?  Of course.  

I don't think MORE important is the right word. They're both super important things. But hammering the Russia stuff isn't going to that guy that didn't vote in the last election to the polls next time.

And no, they certainly do not want to talk about it. Really I think they're ideal scenario is for all of us to be distracted by something else so they can sneak whatever monstrous policy they come up with by while no one is looking.

I agree with Timothy Snyder PhD Yale History Department:


"Fascism says nothing’s true. Your daily life is not important. The facts that you think you understand are not important. All that matters is the myth ― the myth of one nation as together the myth of the mystical connection with the leader.

When we think of “Post-truth,” we think it’s something new. We think it’s something at campuses. We think it’s something irrelevant. Actually, what post-truth does is it paves the way for regime change. If we don’t have access to facts, we can’t trust each other. Without trust, there’s no law. Without law, there’s no democracy.

So if you want to rip the heart out of a democracy directly, if you want to go right at it and kill it, what you do is you go after facts. And that is what modern authoritarians do.

Step one: You lie yourself, all the time. Step two: You say it’s your opponents and the journalists who lie. Step three: Everyone looks around and says, “What is truth? There is no truth.”

And then, resistance is impossible, and the game is over."

In my opinion the Democrats have to get voters out in 2018 or its game over.

USAA customers have shown they are willing to support a guy who goes on a "cable news" channel and keep spreading a Seth Rich murder conspiracy where even Fox News disavowed its source .  So we have a guy on what is the GOP/Trump "news network"  Fox repeating conspiracy FAKE NEWS and USAA customers get him back on the air.

The truth is even less important to Trump supporters,  voters who indentify themselves as Republicans and/or "conservatives and "libertarians than it was 5 months ago.

Lie more and more flagrantly. Double down when called on it. Fuck the truth, people don't seem to give a shit. Pull a Lavar Ball and speak it into existence. Just say over and over again whatever you wish were true, and see what happens.

Cameron wrote:Lie more and more flagrantly. Double down when called on it. Fuck the truth, people don't seem to give a shit. Pull a Lavar Ball and speak it into existence. Just say over and over again whatever you wish were true, and see what happens.

^^^ this is an incorrect answer^^^

GRR Spartan wrote:I agree with Timothy Snyder PhD Yale History Department:


"Fascism says nothing’s true. Your daily life is not important. The facts that you think you understand are not important. All that matters is the myth ― the myth of one nation as together the myth of the mystical connection with the leader.

When we think of “Post-truth,” we think it’s something new. We think it’s something at campuses. We think it’s something irrelevant. Actually, what post-truth does is it paves the way for regime change. If we don’t have access to facts, we can’t trust each other. Without trust, there’s no law. Without law, there’s no democracy.

So if you want to rip the heart out of a democracy directly, if you want to go right at it and kill it, what you do is you go after facts. And that is what modern authoritarians do.

Step one: You lie yourself, all the time. Step two: You say it’s your opponents and the journalists who lie. Step three: Everyone looks around and says, “What is truth? There is no truth.”

And then, resistance is impossible, and the game is over."

In my opinion the Democrats have to get voters out in 2018 or its game over.

USAA customers have shown they are willing to support a guy who goes on a "cable news" channel and keep spreading a Seth Rich murder conspiracy where even Fox News disavowed its source .  So we have a guy on what is the GOP/Trump "news network"  Fox repeating conspiracy FAKE NEWS and USAA customers get him back on the air.

The truth is even less important to Trump supporters,  voters who indentify themselves as Republicans and/or "conservatives and "libertarians than it was 5 months ago.

Agree.

I don't understand why the Dems don't adopt a few issues that seem like could help their cause.

* become the pro legalize pot party

* become the single payer health care party

* become the $15 minimum wage party

* become the free/affordable college tuition party

And get some balls and fight for jobs/workers.

steveschneider wrote:

I don't understand why the Dems don't adopt a few issues that seem like could help their cause.

* become the pro legalize pot party

* become the single payer health care party

* become the $15 minimum wage party

* become the free/affordable college tuition party

And get some balls and fight for jobs/workers.

Their corporate overlords would never stand for it.

Cameron wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

I don't understand why the Dems don't adopt a few issues that seem like could help their cause.

* become the pro legalize pot party

* become the single payer health care party

* become the $15 minimum wage party

* become the free/affordable college tuition party

And get some balls and fight for jobs/workers.

Their corporate overlords would never stand for it.

They should lie and say they are for that shit.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:they need to stop being nice and polite.. and need to stop apologizing every time someone in the mainstream media has their feelings hurt.

America is a pretty stupid country - and as long as Democrats think they can appeal to people by promoting civility and intellectual debate, they're gonna be in trouble.

LMAO - you can't be typing that with a straight face.

steveschneider wrote:

I don't understand why the Dems don't adopt a few issues that seem like could help their cause.

* become the pro legalize pot party

* become the single payer health care party

* become the $15 minimum wage party

* become the free/affordable college tuition party

And get some balls and fight for jobs/workers.

They already are the ""everything is free" party.

Goosechev took full advantage of the "free Medicare when his father was spending his last few months with him in Mio.

That's the joke for all "conservatives" Not a peep when its their kin using the benefits that are set up for everyone.

More Fake bullshit from Goosechev.

GRR Spartan wrote:Goosechev took full advantage of the "free Medicare when his father was spending his last few months with him in Mio.

That's the joke for all "conservatives" Not a peep when its their kin using the benefits that are set up for everyone.

More Fake bullshit from Goosechev.

Dude I don't have no idea if that's true or not but there's no need to be personal.

Also, the "everything is free" party is right up there on the ridiculous line scale with "they're gunna take all ur guns!"

GRR Spartan wrote:Goosechev took full advantage of the "free Medicare when his father was spending his last few months with him in Mio.

That's the joke for all "conservatives" Not a peep when its their kin using the benefits that are set up for everyone.

More Fake bullshit from Goosechev.

Dude, I have half a mind to ban you right now. Don't post shit like this again.

GRR Spartan wrote:Goosechev took full advantage of the "free Medicare when his father was spending his last few months with him in Mio.

That's the joke for all "conservatives"  Not a peep when its their kin using the benefits that are set up for everyone.

More Fake bullshit from Goosechev.

You'd be shocked at how little I "used" the system.  2 facts and I'll drop this.   My Dad was cared for by me and my family and 2 privately hired nurses.  I paid them every week, the government paid them ZERO.  EVER.  2nd fact was that Dad had Blue Cross coverage from the Early 80s to the time of his death.   That's insurance, you try writing that check every month like we did.


So have your bullshit narrative. The facts on the ground are that some of us walk the walk.

Damn Goosechev you are Mr.Blanket statement about a lot of stuff including your "free" line I responded to.

You are a typical righty who believes all the bullshit or like being a troll.

I'm operating with a variation of FoxNews slogan
Goose trolls, I respond.

I know what PartB Medicare runs because my wife handles my 89 year old mother-in-law's health costs. Another unfunded mandate by the small government Bush2.

Bottom line is the VA and Medicare operate with a helluva lot less overhead than even the best non-government programs like Kaiser Health. But the "conservatives and GOP get too much funding from the health insurance lobby.

We also don't get more Americans covered by ending subsidies and giving the richest 1% a massive tax break. But I'm a fan of a progressive tax system.

LooseGoose wrote:

GRR Spartan wrote:Goosechev took full advantage of the "free Medicare when his father was spending his last few months with him in Mio.

That's the joke for all "conservatives"  Not a peep when its their kin using the benefits that are set up for everyone.

More Fake bullshit from Goosechev.

You'd be shocked at how little I "used" the system.  2 facts and I'll drop this.   My Dad was cared for by me and my family and 2 privately hired nurses.  I paid them every week, the government paid them ZERO.  EVER.  2nd fact was that Dad had Blue Cross coverage from the Early 80s to the time of his death.   That's insurance, you try writing that check every month like we did.


So have your bullshit narrative. The facts on the ground are that some of us walk the walk.

Goose, sorry for your loss.