MSU Football Team Kind of Sucks - True or False Edition?

I will refrain from making any arguments. But please weigh in with your opinions. 

MSU is 5-0 if starting 8/31 through today we have the following guys on the field for the majority of the snaps: Cole Chewins, David Beedle, Josiah Scott, LJ Scott, Cody White, Darrell Stewart, Jailon Nailor, Jacob Panasiuk, Kevin Jarvis.

True

Hmmmmmmm

With those guys we still lose to PSU and OSU. We are 5-0 at this point however. This team is definitely bottom half of league and boring

DWags wrote:With those guys we still lose to PSU and OSU.  We are 5-0 at this point however. This team is definitely bottom half of league and boring

We lose to PSU and OSU no matter what pretty much. Right? 

But we're on track. We're not melting the fuck down. We're not questioning whether Coach D still has the fire in his belly and demanding Warner and Staten's head. 

Right?

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

DWags wrote:With those guys we still lose to PSU and OSU.  We are 5-0 at this point however. This team is definitely bottom half of league and boring

We lose to PSU and OSU no matter what pretty much. Right? 

But we're on track. We're not melting the fuck down. We're not questioning whether Coach D still has the fire in his belly and demanding Warner and Staten's head. 

Right?

I love loyalty, but there’s also something to bringing in fresh ideas to your offense. If coach D is comfortable with the guy. But I know it has to fit D’s style and philosophy so we won’t make changes there. I think next year we’re very formidable

Then there’s Oklahoma. Fuck loyalty. Stoops out.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ryaber/status/1049105949292683264?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1049106743400194048&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2F247sports.com%2FBoard%2F30%2FContents%2FThe-Official-Michigan-State-and-Michigan-Thread-3334707%2F%3FPage%3D9327

DWags wrote:

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:
We lose to PSU and OSU no matter what pretty much. Right? 

But we're on track. We're not melting the fuck down. We're not questioning whether Coach D still has the fire in his belly and demanding Warner and Staten's head. 

Right?

I love loyalty, but there’s also something to bringing in fresh ideas to your offense. If coach D is comfortable with the guy.  But I know it has to fit D’s style and philosophy so we won’t make changes there. I think next year we’re very formidable

Do not get me wrong. I am not standing up for Warner. I do think often, anger is misplaced. We have discussed this in other places. Is this truly Warner's offense? I don't really think so. I think this is Warner's offense, dictated by Coach D, under Coach D's philosophy. Coach D wants an offense than can run power. He wants balance. Hell he wants a 60/40 run/pass split. How do you maintain that right now? 

In terms of evolving the offense - I'm all for it. But it's gotta start at the top. Are we angry enough at this injury-plagued start to the season that we want to demand Coach D change his fundamentals or GTFO and hire PJ Fleck? 

Or do we acknowledge the injuries, and that we might be right on track right now to be where we thought we might be, if not for being physically decimated? 

Food for thought I guess.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

DWags wrote:

I love loyalty, but there’s also something to bringing in fresh ideas to your offense. If coach D is comfortable with the guy.  But I know it has to fit D’s style and philosophy so we won’t make changes there. I think next year we’re very formidable

Do not get me wrong. I am not standing up for Warner. I do think often, anger is misplaced. We have discussed this in other places. Is this truly Warner's offense? I don't really think so. I think this is Warner's offense, dictated by Coach D, under Coach D's philosophy. Coach D wants an offense than can run power. He wants balance. Hell he wants a 60/40 run/pass split. How do you maintain that right now? 

In terms of evolving the offense - I'm all for it. But it's gotta start at the top. Are we angry enough at this injury-plagued start to the season that we want to demand Coach D change his fundamentals or GTFO and hire PJ Fleck? 

Or do we acknowledge the injuries, and that we might be right on track right now to be where we thought we might be, if not for being physically decimated? 

Food for thought I guess.

I’m good with the staff. But we all need to admit maybe we’ve hit our ceiling.

Ferris State is good this year.

Injuries are part of the game. Every team suffers from the injury flu. It’s called having depth

Bill Cain wrote:Injuries are part of the game. Every team suffers from the injury flu. It’s called having depth

Not every team has depth.

My guess is the anger is just a symptom of frustration. There might also be some feeling of defeat from what DWags said; we’ve seen the ceiling for this program and realistically, our guys won’t hit it again anytime soon, if ever.

Someone say PJ Fleck?

DWags wrote:

Bill Cain wrote:Injuries are part of the game. Every team suffers from the injury flu. It’s called having depth

Not every team has depth.

This was always the problem with MSU ever since Perles. It felt to me (not based on fact, just felt) like we were turning that corner in 2013-2015 then the 2016 class and on-field results screwed that up. Now back to square one. Feels like this is especially true on the OL, where it counts the most.

Scott Frost might be available soon.

Floyd Robertson wrote:

DWags wrote:

Not every team has depth.

This was always the problem with MSU ever since Perles. It felt to me (not based on fact, just felt) like we were turning that corner in 2013-2015 then the 2016 class and on-field results screwed that up. Now back to square one. Feels like this is especially true on the OL, where it counts the most.

This is what I don't get. I kept hearing that the OL was going to be average at worst. Not the disaster that we've been watching this year. I know injuries haven't helped at all but damn. Maybe I'm listening to the wrong people.

the injuries are obviously a factor - but I mentioned something in the game thread on Saturday about intangibles. Seems like there is a lack of urgency, a spark.. the swagger that good teams need. If that's the case, it's liked tied to a lack of leadership on the team (not necessarily from the coaching staff).

how can a team that returned 19 starters (that's the number I hear, anyway) from a 10 win season just look so disengaged?

Here again, sometimes you put together a team of really nice kids. I mean really nice. Kids you have no problem that your daughter hangs out with. Stories of bad ass Defensive Ends in study sessions for human biology. Which, by far is great, and in the grand scheme of life, way more important. But are nice guys the type of guys who will cut your heart out and hate losing on the field? I guess we can all give anecdotal evidence of a guy like Cousins or whomever. But I honestly think maybe in football you just need some bad ass people who are very independent and pissed off at life.

Shit, I don't know. I thought we'd be 5-0 right now. So, I'm really bummed out. Excuses or whatever, I, like many of you dreaded the build up this year, it always seems that shit bites us in the ass.

DWags wrote:Here again, sometimes you put together a team of really nice kids.   I mean really nice.  Kids you have no problem that your daughter hangs out with.  Stories of bad ass Defensive Ends in study sessions for human biology.  Which, by far is great, and in the grand scheme of life, way more important.  But are nice guys the type of guys who will cut your heart out and hate losing on the field?   I guess we can all give anecdotal evidence of a guy like Cousins or whomever.  But I honestly think maybe in football you just need some bad ass people who are very independent and pissed off at life.  

Shit, I don't know.  I thought we'd be 5-0 right now. So, I'm really bummed out.   Excuses or whatever, I, like many of you dreaded the build up this year, it always seems that shit bites us in the ass.  

that's what I was getting at with the intangible stuff. They're lacking that chip on the shoulder, the swagger, the "I'm gonna stomp you and steal your girlfriend" attitude.

and that's the frustrating part, I think, as a fan - most of us could live with less talent and just lining up and getting beat on the field. But it's what seems to be complacency or a lack of urgency that is frustrating.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

DWags wrote:Here again, sometimes you put together a team of really nice kids.   I mean really nice.  Kids you have no problem that your daughter hangs out with.  Stories of bad ass Defensive Ends in study sessions for human biology.  Which, by far is great, and in the grand scheme of life, way more important.  But are nice guys the type of guys who will cut your heart out and hate losing on the field?   I guess we can all give anecdotal evidence of a guy like Cousins or whomever.  But I honestly think maybe in football you just need some bad ass people who are very independent and pissed off at life.  

Shit, I don't know.  I thought we'd be 5-0 right now. So, I'm really bummed out.   Excuses or whatever, I, like many of you dreaded the build up this year, it always seems that shit bites us in the ass.  

that's what I was getting at with the intangible stuff. They're lacking that chip on the shoulder, the swagger, the "I'm gonna stomp you and steal your girlfriend" attitude.

and that's the frustrating part, I think, as a fan - most of us could live with less talent and just lining up and getting beat on the field. But it's what seems to be complacency or a lack of urgency that is frustrating.

I wouldn't steal your girlfriend Bob. Maybe stomp you just a little bit though.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

and that's the frustrating part, I think, as a fan - most of us could live with less talent and just lining up and getting beat on the field. But it's what seems to be complacency or a lack of urgency that is frustrating.

Almost like they're STUDENT/athletes, here for college first. Who the fuck needs that on a college football team?

DWags wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

and that's the frustrating part, I think, as a fan - most of us could live with less talent and just lining up and getting beat on the field. But it's what seems to be complacency or a lack of urgency that is frustrating.

Almost like they're STUDENT/athletes, here for college first. Who the fuck needs that on a college football team?

yeah - what's up with that.. what the hell is the matter with them??

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
that's what I was getting at with the intangible stuff. They're lacking that chip on the shoulder, the swagger, the "I'm gonna stomp you and steal your girlfriend" attitude.

and that's the frustrating part, I think, as a fan - most of us could live with less talent and just lining up and getting beat on the field. But it's what seems to be complacency or a lack of urgency that is frustrating.

I wouldn't steal your girlfriend Bob. Maybe stomp you just a little bit though.

I gotta be honest, I could use a good stomping. Just ask my wife.

You all might be right about the intangibles. We might be slogging along and underperforming against CMU. But we'd be 5-0 if it weren't for the injuries. 

Food for thought. OSU has probably the 2nd most talented team in the country. Possibly 3rd. They have "depth". I'm guessing OSU would have 2 losses right now if they had suffered the same kind of injuries we have. They barely survived TCU and PSU healthy. It's not ASU and Northwestern, but just sayin.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

I wouldn't steal your girlfriend Bob. Maybe stomp you just a little bit though.

I gotta be honest, I could use a good stomping. Just ask my wife.

Group stomping or just a good old fashioned one on one stomping?

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I will refrain from making any arguments. But please weigh in with your opinions. 

MSU is 5-0 if starting 8/31 through today we have the following guys on the field for the majority of the snaps: Cole Chewins, David Beedle, Josiah Scott, LJ Scott, Cody White, Darrell Stewart, Jailon Nailor, Jacob Panasiuk, Kevin Jarvis.

If by "sucks" you mean "not good" then yes you are right. That pass defense is pitiful. But I do agree, we have been devastated by injuries. But that is no excuse, you have to rise up.

Luckily scum is just as bad right now, so while I don't have a lot of hope against PSU, I think we still beat scum.

TheReal_LWS wrote:

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I will refrain from making any arguments. But please weigh in with your opinions. 

MSU is 5-0 if starting 8/31 through today we have the following guys on the field for the majority of the snaps: Cole Chewins, David Beedle, Josiah Scott, LJ Scott, Cody White, Darrell Stewart, Jailon Nailor, Jacob Panasiuk, Kevin Jarvis.

If by "sucks" you mean "not good" then yes you are right. That pass defense is pitiful. But I do agree, we have been devastated by injuries. But that is no excuse, you have to rise up.

Luckily scum is just as bad right now, so while I don't have a lot of hope against PSU, I think we still beat scum.

In what way?

Jake from State Farm wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:I gotta be honest, I could use a good stomping. Just ask my wife.

Group stomping or just a good old fashioned one on one stomping?

I'm sure I would benefit from either.

Jake from State Farm wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:I gotta be honest, I could use a good stomping. Just ask my wife.

Group stomping or just a good old fashioned one on one stomping?

Whoa whoa whoa! Don't try to horn in on my Bob stomping action.

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

Jake from State Farm wrote:

Group stomping or just a good old fashioned one on one stomping?

Whoa whoa whoa! Don't try to horn in on my Bob stomping action.

there's enough of me and my attitude/ego to go around.

Not buying wbh’s sunshine. Outside of Josiah Scott and chewins, we were relatively healthy at times this year and still looked like shit, no?

Either way talking about 5-0 without injuries is mgoblog level and I’m sure yall would be copying and pasting things like wbh just said comparing us to OSU in the obsession thread.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Not buying wbh’s sunshine. Outside of Josiah Scott and chewins, we were relatively healthy at times this year and still looked like shit, no?

Either way talking about 5-0 without injuries is mgoblog level and I’m sure yall would be copying and pasting things like wbh just said comparing us to OSU in the obsession thread.

You're missing the point, McFly. Shocker. 

We do suck. There are no excuses. The reason why we suck is not because of Dave Warner or Mark Staten. The meltdown from the fanbase is laughable. There are posts on the rivals board breaking down OL recruiting for the past 10 years. OUR BEST TWO LINEMAN HAVE NOT PLAYED TOGETHER YET THIS YEAR FOR MORE THAN A HANDFUL OF SNAPS. And only 1 has played an entire game to date. I wonder why our OL sucks?

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Not buying wbh’s sunshine. Outside of Josiah Scott and chewins, we were relatively healthy at times this year and still looked like shit, no?

Either way talking about 5-0 without injuries is mgoblog level and I’m sure yall would be copying and pasting things like wbh just said comparing us to OSU in the obsession thread.

You're missing the point, McFly. Shocker. 

We do suck. There are no excuses. The reason why we suck is not because of Dave Warner or Mark Staten. The meltdown from the fanbase is laughable. There are posts on the rivals board breaking down OL recruiting for the past 10 years. OUR BEST TWO LINEMAN HAVE NOT PLAYED TOGETHER YET THIS YEAR FOR MORE THAN A HANDFUL OF SNAPS. And only 1 has played an entire game to date. I wonder why our OL sucks?

I missed the point because of posts on other message boards..? Guess I’m glad to miss it then.

you still keep saying this 5-0 narrative that’s just as much message board bullshit as calling out coaches that have been here for years. As a reminder, having no depth is on the coaches. Everything is on the coaches.

In the end, none of us know WHY we suck. D wags will think it’s because some random players stayed out too late on Thursday or are too nice and attend too many study sessions, you’ll blame it on injuries, but in the end - we just suck. And it’s multiple factors that may include those. The football team just sucks.

The 5-0 stuff without injuries stuff is laughable - I may have missed your point calling out random rivals posters but you still compared us to OSU and act like no depth isn’t the coaches fault.

OTPT, we could say what you just said, or we could have a conversation as to why we suck.

It's a message board. You're right, we suck. So, we should just start a thread that says "We suck"
Then everyone in it says "Yep" all the way down.

I guess that makes for a good message board. Or we can discuss why we think we suck and could it be different.

Is anyone anywhere on this board saying we don't suck? I'm curious.

We do not have the kind of depth where we can sustain the type of injuries we have sustained and remain a competitor to win the conference. We do not have half of the depth or talent that OSU does and they would also probably have 2 losses if they had taken the kind of hit that we have. Yes, that is on the coaches that we do not have half the kind of depth that OSU and Bama have. We should panic and demand they are all fired.

I disagree with the fact that OSU would have to loss to ASU and NU if they had similar injuries. That gets more and more asinine every time i type it considering how they reload.

So the goals of the season shift....
Goal 1 = Bowl game.
Goal 2 = Ruin someone else's season.

That's all I got.

I blame Reschke.