X's and O's Talk: How Did Our Offense Improve?

No question this years is better but how did we get to this point?

I haven't seen the basket weave and I haven't seen the predictable half court sets that used to drive me crazy. I'm seeing quick developing plays, great cuts, great passes, guys are driving to the basket and there are stretches of play where all five guys on the floor can actually score! What happened?

No more Bridges iso's is a big one. Everyone is more invested in the offense. Winston taking his game to the next level helps a ton too.

I'm an idiot when it comes to basketball strategy and diagrammed plays but I agree with the overall tenor of this post. Our offense seems vastly improved.

Clarett's Folly wrote:I'm an idiot when it comes to basketball strategy and diagrammed plays but I agree with the overall tenor of this post. Our offense seems vastly improved.

Don't let that get in the way of providing a break down of the play and action you are seeing. I gave multiple takes the other week on that one recruit I knew nothing about.

I’m like CF—I don’t know the ins and outs of basketball, but everyone seems to be rebounding better/more, especially on O. There’s also a quicker pace to players getting open for better shots, and Cash’s passes and drives to the basket are money in getting us a basket or kicking it out after the D collapses inside. Plus, our fast break is just dirty dirty dirty.

An Izzo offense runs better through a point guard.  Izzo coaches better when he can run his designed sets.  Frankly Izzo struggles when he has to find creative ways to get 5*'s that aren't PG's ways to score or be the focal point of an offense.  Especially todays stretch 3's 4's or 5's. Give Izzo a beast in the paint, an above average true PG and he will get them to the Elite 8 every year.  He recruits enough very good talent at the other positions to keep an opponent honest if they try to shut down the post or point.  He's a defined role player type of coach and that's his comfort zone. This team is that in spades.

Modernized!

Ball movement. Extra pass. Pace. Ball doesn't touch the floor as often. I would bet a hefty sum that we have more passes per possession than any team in the country.

Izzo.

Team is assisting on a very high percentage of baskets. Less iso, more passes, and Winston taking another step forward have all helped this year.

Cameron wrote:Team is assisting on a very high percentage of baskets. Less iso, more passes, and Winston taking another step forward have all helped this year.

You could have just quoted me and said "Ditto."

Clarett's Folly wrote:I'm an idiot when it comes to basketball strategy and diagrammed plays but I agree with the overall tenor of this post. Our offense seems vastly improved.

As am I. However, ,I think being dumb in this instance is helpful. Just on visual, this team moves the ball up the court quicker. They don't all run to one spot and wait for the offense to get going. Different players are seeming to fill different lanes each time down, they don't do that fucking three man weave up top.

so, what do they do? I have no fucking idea, but as the basketball idiot on tis board, it just looks faster, quicker, "we're not waiting for your ass to get down here" type of offense.

Plus they can play the hell out of some defense. And the don't make my stomach hurt wondering "why do we have all this NBA talent and Ben Carson and we just don't seem like we're that good?"

Also, and in fairness, if we look back at the beginning of last season and through December, that team seemed like aton of fun too. If we're being far, the whole ESPN thing probably put a damper on that season too.

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

Cameron wrote:Team is assisting on a very high percentage of baskets. Less iso, more passes, and Winston taking another step forward have all helped this year.

You could have just quoted me and said "Ditto."

But I didn't. #teamTravis

DWags wrote:

Clarett's Folly wrote:I'm an idiot when it comes to basketball strategy and diagrammed plays but I agree with the overall tenor of this post. Our offense seems vastly improved.

As am I. However, ,I think being dumb in this instance is helpful. Just on visual, this team moves the ball up the court quicker. They don't all run to one spot and wait for the offense to get going. Different players are seeming to fill different lanes each time down, they don't do that fucking three man weave up top.

so, what do they do? I have no fucking idea, but as the basketball idiot on tis board, it just looks faster, quicker, "we're not waiting for your ass to get down here" type of offense.

Plus they can play the hell out of some defense. And the don't make my stomach hurt wondering "why do we have all this NBA talent and Ben Carson and we just don't seem like we're that good?"

Also, and in fairness, if we look back at the beginning of last season and through December, that team seemed like aton of fun too. If we're being far, the whole ESPN thing probably put a damper on that season too.

To be fair he's very busy with the Department of Housing and Urban Development so his help-side defense is bound to suffer.

DWags wrote:
Also, and in fairness, if we look back at the beginning of last season and through December, that team seemed like aton of fun too. If we're being far, the whole ESPN thing probably put a damper on that season too.

This is a good point, and probably a bigger factor than many of us might realize.

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

Cameron wrote:Team is assisting on a very high percentage of baskets. Less iso, more passes, and Winston taking another step forward have all helped this year.

You could have just quoted me and said "Ditto."

Nobody wants your stink on them.

The answers you seek are in here How Izzo & Loyer Modernized MSU's offense

we still run the weave

DWags wrote:

Clarett's Folly wrote:I'm an idiot when it comes to basketball strategy and diagrammed plays but I agree with the overall tenor of this post. Our offense seems vastly improved.

As am I. However, ,I think being dumb in this instance is helpful. Just on visual, this team moves the ball up the court quicker. They don't all run to one spot and wait for the offense to get going. Different players are seeming to fill different lanes each time down, they don't do that fucking three man weave up top.

so, what do they do? I have no fucking idea, but as the basketball idiot on tis board, it just looks faster, quicker, "we're not waiting for your ass to get down here" type of offense.

Plus they can play the hell out of some defense. And the don't make my stomach hurt wondering "why do we have all this NBA talent and Ben Carson and we just don't seem like we're that good?"

Also, and in fairness, if we look back at the beginning of last season and through December, that team seemed like aton of fun too. If we're being far, the whole ESPN thing probably put a damper on that season too.

We've always transitioned fast and ran it. In that game where MSU beat Kentucky when they had Randal and all those Freshmen we killed them that game with the transition. I went to a game last year against the Sea Wolves and the Spartans ran that team out of the gym on the transition. The UofM game I saw in MSG last year it looked like UofM gave up on offensive rebounds to send guys running back to stop MSU on the transition. We are definitely running it really good this year but I think the big improvement I'm seeing is our half court sets.

I agree with you that ESPN shit was a huge toxic cloud over the team last year. Tough to measure how much damage they did but having that distraction around is not good.

To be honest I don't think much has changed. Izzo's teams have always been about defense, rebounding and running. I will say that in the half court he isn't running some of the sets we used to see (ie scissor cuts, weave) but a lot of it is the same. He still runs a ton of ball screens. He still runs the double high screens with his bigs. We still swing the ball from wing to wing in the half court.

I think the only real difference is the players are simply doing everything more efficiently. And it all starts with Cash. Perfect example of one guy making everyone better.

Nordic wrote:The answers you seek are in here How Izzo & Loyer Modernized MSU's offense

we still run the weave

Yeah and I hate that shit. Fucking weave. Are they trying to distract the defense or bore them to sleep?

Nordic wrote:The answers you seek are in here How Izzo & Loyer Modernized MSU's offense

we still run the weave

This. And yes, we do still run the weave - do you not see it? It's not a shot set. It's movement to get us into a set, usually to set up a feed to Ward/Mr. Pickles in the post.

Other factors touched on already - no more iso ball with Miles on the wing. More assertiveness from Cash.

Factors not touched on - Ward Ward Ward. He is more dedicated in everything he is doing and that helps the offense out like crazy, from sprinting out down the center on the break looking for the feed, to learning how to deal with a double (which is where our downfall started last year against OSU).

Also just everyone else getting better and more confident. McQuaid is no longer just a spot shooter. He dribble drives, and will score or dish. Same with Ahrens. Even Go ins is a more confident player who has a little bit of Offensive game.

I think we still run a lot of the same shit we ran last year. Different players, dynamics and chemistry have it working a lot better this year.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

Nordic wrote:The answers you seek are in here How Izzo & Loyer Modernized MSU's offense

we still run the weave

This. And yes, we do still run the weave - do you not see it? It's not a shot set. It's movement to get us into a set, usually to set up a feed to Ward/Mr. Pickles in the post.

Other factors touched on already - no more iso ball with Miles on the wing. More assertiveness from Cash.

Factors not touched on - Ward Ward Ward. He is more dedicated in everything he is doing and that helps the offense out like crazy, from sprinting out down the center on the break looking for the feed, to learning how to deal with a double (which is where our downfall started last year against OSU).

Also just everyone else getting better and more confident. McQuaid is no longer just a spot shooter. He dribble drives, and will score or dish. Same with Ahrens. Even Go ins is a more confident player who has a little bit of Offensive game.

I think we still run a lot of the same shit we ran last year. Different players, dynamics and chemistry have it working a lot better this year.

Agree completely. Ward's improvement is all phases of his game offensively has been huge.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote: It's not a shot set. It's movement to get us into a set, usually to set up a feed to Ward/Mr. Pickles in the post.

This is what I've noticed as well. They run it early to get guys in the right spot/the ball moving. Old habits diehard, but it works pretty good how they are using it now.

Agree on all the rest as well.

We are going to win so much.

I'm going to be OTPT for a minute.
I had a great post about how teams sagged off of Tum Tum, allowing them to play 5 on 4 D against us last year.
I'll try to do it later.

InTenSity wrote:I'm going to be OTPT for a minute.
I had a great post about how teams sagged off of Tum Tum, allowing them to play 5 on 4 D against us last year.
I'll try to do it later.

It wasn’t just last year it was every time he was on the floor.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

Nordic wrote:The answers you seek are in here How Izzo & Loyer Modernized MSU's offense

we still run the weave

This. And yes, we do still run the weave - do you not see it? It's not a shot set. It's movement to get us into a set, usually to set up a feed to Ward/Mr. Pickles in the post.

Other factors touched on already - no more iso ball with Miles on the wing. More assertiveness from Cash.

Factors not touched on - Ward Ward Ward. He is more dedicated in everything he is doing and that helps the offense out like crazy, from sprinting out down the center on the break looking for the feed, to learning how to deal with a double (which is where our downfall started last year against OSU).

Also just everyone else getting better and more confident. McQuaid is no longer just a spot shooter. He dribble drives, and will score or dish. Same with Ahrens. Even Go ins is a more confident player who has a little bit of Offensive game.

I think we still run a lot of the same shit we ran last year. Different players, dynamics and chemistry have it working a lot better this year.

I guess I haven't noticed, or maybe the fact it's effective threw me off!

steveschneider wrote:

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

This. And yes, we do still run the weave - do you not see it? It's not a shot set. It's movement to get us into a set, usually to set up a feed to Ward/Mr. Pickles in the post.

Other factors touched on already - no more iso ball with Miles on the wing. More assertiveness from Cash.

Factors not touched on - Ward Ward Ward. He is more dedicated in everything he is doing and that helps the offense out like crazy, from sprinting out down the center on the break looking for the feed, to learning how to deal with a double (which is where our downfall started last year against OSU).

Also just everyone else getting better and more confident. McQuaid is no longer just a spot shooter. He dribble drives, and will score or dish. Same with Ahrens. Even Go ins is a more confident player who has a little bit of Offensive game.

I think we still run a lot of the same shit we ran last year. Different players, dynamics and chemistry have it working a lot better this year.

I guess I haven't noticed, or maybe the fact it's effective threw me off!

See I think to the uninformed like me and who go to quite a few games each year, it helps to be ignorant of sets and shit. This team just looks “smother”. My wife was worried about Langford coming back because “this group seems to move smooth together and will he shake the rhythm up”? I told her maybe, but it can’t hurt having a healthy Langford as an option.

I agree I like The Smothers Brothers too

InTenSity wrote:I'm going to be OTPT for a minute.
I had a great post about how teams sagged off of Tum Tum, allowing them to play 5 on 4 D against us last year.
I'll try to do it later.

I think this may be the biggest change. Tum Tum was a huge liability on O.

DWags wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

I guess I haven't noticed, or maybe the fact it's effective threw me off!

See I think to the uninformed like me and who go to quite a few games each year, it helps to be ignorant of sets and shit. This team just looks “smother”. My wife was worried about Langford coming back because “this group seems to move smooth together and will he shake the rhythm up”? I told her maybe, but it can’t hurt having a healthy Langford as an option.

Did Mrs. DWags smother the kids?

Can we attribute some of the improvements to our O to a down B10? A lot of the conference games I’ve seen this year the opponents look like they’ve regressed from last year.