Game of Thrones - Final Season

Rocinante wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

The word stretching is a stretch in this case. These writers could not write a decent poem.

On the same note: minus the way too long epilogue, I actually liked the way true detective season 3 ended. It could have been at least 2 episodes shorter and gotten there just fine. But I’m ok with it.

I was a fan of it overall. Kept me interested and engaged - people get caught up in these potential trippy ends with simple shows that never really add up considering the entire show. True detective is out there, but it’s still a crime drama, not lost.

I’m just glad Chernobyl has saved the day. Refreshing bounce back on Monday nights after one last gut punch with game of thrones episode 6 fellowship of the throne revenge of the writers.

Nordic wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:What an insult to the red wedding. Uncalled for.

Talk about predictable...

No one saw the Red Wedding coming. No one saw Dany burning KL down to the ground for the fuck of it.

It really wasn’t surprising considering the last episode or two - including those cringeworthy close ups of her face showing her angry and then her teenager hissy fit she threw by locking herself in a room without eating. Jesus. Come on !!!

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

Nordic wrote:

Talk about predictable...

No one saw the Red Wedding coming. No one saw Dany burning KL down to the ground for the fuck of it.

It really wasn’t surprising considering the last episode or two - including those cringeworthy close ups of her face showing her angry and then her teenager hissy fit she threw by locking herself in a room without eating. Jesus. Come on !!!

So you knew she was going to burn KL for the fuck of it? Not in the heat of the battle, not to kill Cersi...but just for the shits and giggles? If so, impressive. I didn't see that coming.

Nordic wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:


It really wasn’t surprising considering the last episode or two - including those cringeworthy close ups of her face showing her angry and then her teenager hissy fit she threw by locking herself in a room without eating. Jesus. Come on !!!

So you knew she was going to burn KL for the fuck of it? Not in the heat of the battle, not to kill Cersi...but just for the shits and giggles? If so, impressive. I didn't see that coming.

I don't remember what post I said predictable in...but you're not wrong, her burning the city was definitely not predictable. What I feel was predictable were some of the story arcs. I just don't really agree with you all saying that she's always been batshit crazy and wanting to burn everyone. She was always a protagonist who stood up for the every day citizen/those being taken advantage of. She hated her enemies and those who wronged her and showed them no mercy, and she was focused on winning the electoral college so that she could rid the white house of the evil that currently resided there so she could be a kind, benevolent queen. I mean that was my interpretation for 8 seasons. Maybe 2 episodes ago you caught a glimpse that ruling to her was just as if not more important to her than Jon's 3 incher. But that had not been a theme previously to my best recollection. And even that did not foretell her 180 from protector of the people to let's line em up and fry em. I just thought they completely changed her character in the course of one episode (I'm not even gonna give you two, because as I said, previous episodes showed her desire to sit on the throne and vanquish her enemies but not to kill innocents for no reason). I thought that was pretty dumb.

And back to my original post after watching. The other thing that was extremely dumb was the flip flopping of the prowess of the dragons. What the hell changed from last episode? Honestly I thought last episode was the dumb one in that regard, with the scorpions on ships being some infallible dragon defense.

I don't know if you guys read the Sepinwall recap I posted yesterday but like I said he summed it up better than I did above. He's a better tv watcher than me.

The more you can see, the less sense any of it makes. And that extends particularly to Daenerys’ heel turn from Breaker of Chains to Barbecuer of Families.

Dany’s descent into genocidal madness didn’t exactly come out of nowhere. Throughout her travels across Essos, her preferred solution to problems was to burn them and all the people associated with them. She’s impetuous, narcissistic and one of the last members of a bloodline with a history of doing things exactly like what she did to King’s Landing. But the manner in which it played out this season felt sloppy in the way these last few seasons have often been. It’s not just about characters like Euron and Bronn and Jaime surviving point-blank dragon-fire attacks, or Varys (RIP) being able to teleport across continents. It’s that Benioff and Weiss have been a lot less diligent at getting the characters — and the Mother of Dragons in particular — to the planned endpoint. They’ve told us where this is going, but they haven’t really shown the work necessary to bring her from “erratic but ultimately well-meaning” to “will roast thousands of innocent civilians alive just because she feels like it.” A version where she ignored the bells and flew Drogon straight through Cersei’s balcony would have felt of a piece with where the story had taken us to this point. What she did instead required at least another half of a regular-length GoT season to feel earned. But the showrunners needed their queen to get mad in a hurry, and so she did.

I suppose she freed slaves and spared commoners all across the other continent for her own benefit. Played the part of a good monarch. All of it may have been ploy to gain the advantage she needed to attack and burn KL to the ground... But it seems like that should have been hinted to 3 seasons ago. That she's "good" only for her own personal gains.
But, no fk that. She put her entire army she built strictly to burn Kings Landing to the ground (with evil intent) in harms way with the White war. Why bother if she was singularly driven to "make them pay"... crazy targarian...

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I don't know if you guys read the Sepinwall recap I posted yesterday but like I said he summed it up better than I did above. He's a better tv watcher than me.

The more you can see, the less sense any of it makes. And that extends particularly to Daenerys’ heel turn from Breaker of Chains to Barbecuer of Families.

Dany’s descent into genocidal madness didn’t exactly come out of nowhere. Throughout her travels across Essos, her preferred solution to problems was to burn them and all the people associated with them. She’s impetuous, narcissistic and one of the last members of a bloodline with a history of doing things exactly like what she did to King’s Landing. But the manner in which it played out this season felt sloppy in the way these last few seasons have often been. It’s not just about characters like Euron and Bronn and Jaime surviving point-blank dragon-fire attacks, or Varys (RIP) being able to teleport across continents. It’s that Benioff and Weiss have been a lot less diligent at getting the characters — and the Mother of Dragons in particular — to the planned endpoint. They’ve told us where this is going, but they haven’t really shown the work necessary to bring her from “erratic but ultimately well-meaning” to “will roast thousands of innocent civilians alive just because she feels like it.” A version where she ignored the bells and flew Drogon straight through Cersei’s balcony would have felt of a piece with where the story had taken us to this point. What she did instead required at least another half of a regular-length GoT season to feel earned. But the showrunners needed their queen to get mad in a hurry, and so she did.

From The Ringer? They put out the best Thrones commentary. Especially Ask the Maester (which I haven't read yet) is usually a good read.

But I disagree with this. There is plenty to bitch about regarding the timelines being smashed, but I don't need another half season of watching Dany turn into a monster and this would of ruined the effect it had. She has been shown to be a stone cold emotionless killer from season 1 (maybe 2). Most of the time under the guise of doing good for the little guy. But she was a straight up killer all along. This season they have been setting up how miserable and alone she is. Add in her only bestie got her head lopped off and her man piece just rejected her.  The battle was won, her mission on paper was complete. But it turns out it wasn't enough and whether she knew it or not, the Iron Throne was not what she was truly after. She was still pissed and out for revenge.

This also answers a big question I've had for a while. Why the fuck does she care about the Iron Throne? The first episode she said she didn't 'want any of this' (I can't remember the exact quote. But she was a teenager living in a rich dudes mansion. She didn't give two shits about the Iron Throne. Over the course of the show, she was sold off, raped, left to die, her family was murdered and countless people tied to kill her. She wanted vengeance. I mean, why leave Mareen? She was already a queen, most loved her and it looked like a cooler place than Westeros. When she won and the Iron Throne was basically hers, it wasn't enough. She had contempt for all those that didn't rise up and open the gates for her (she showed this in other cities she sacked as well). She was still alone, still pissed and out for revenge. Add in her family background and MO for burning people and it needed no further setup. OTPT saw it coming. Everyone in her corner was fearful of it.

If they played out another half season of her getting to that point, Jon and Tyrion would not of followed her and the ending would not of been a surprise.

Fair points. "We'll agree to disagree".

Also didn't she just say a couple of episodes ago that her entire life she's known one thing, and that was wanting to sit on the iron throne?

Sepinwall writes for Rolling Stone now. He used to write for Uproxx, must have gotten hired away. He's probably my favorite reviewer of this stuff. Used to be required reading during the last couple of seasons of BB. He's a good read after Saul, as well (though I seem to be one of the few remaining who love that show).

I want to know why Danerys’ eyebrows are so fucking dark.

This season we don't get lots of dialog and several hints at a plot. We have to parse out bits and pieces. Wondering if anyone else thought Varys was plotting to kill Dany by poisoning her food. Knowing that he had turned on Dany, the conversation with the girl about whether or not Dany was eating could have been more about a plot and less about concern for her. Also, he wrote some notes, at least one was competed. Who was the intended recipient?

Also thought Dany let that dragon get killed easily by Euron. She had a very concerned look on her face when the crowd was praising Jon for riding the dragon in battle. Can't remember the exact words but they were in awe seeing him on the dragon. Next big scene his dragon gets killed. Hmmmm.

Does it end with Dany taking over and the Seven Kingdoms are in a never-ending loop of GOT?

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Fair points. "We'll agree to disagree".

Also didn't she just say a couple of episodes ago that her entire life she's known one thing, and that was wanting to sit on the iron throne?

Sepinwall writes for Rolling Stone now. He used to write for Uproxx, must have gotten hired away. He's probably my favorite reviewer of this stuff. Used to be required reading during the last couple of seasons of BB. He's a good read after Saul, as well (though I seem to be one of the few remaining who love that show).

That is what I was getting at in paragraph 3. She did say that and when she did, I didn't get it. That was he brother's goal, not hers. She said as much in S1E1. When shit started to get real, she changed her tune. She then said she wanted the Iron Throne, and maybe even believed it. But in reality she just wanted to kill them all. When the Iron Throne was hers, it wasn't enough and she rampaged.

I didn't know she'd specifically burn all of Kings Landing but they've been hinting that she's kinda cruel and unstable and will be the final bad guy all series. I've been waiting for her final heel turn all seaon. Again, they've shown multiple visions of ashes (then thought to be snow) raining down on a destroyed Kings Landing.

Ineresting read: Hightlights some of the many times Dany showed how cruel and possibly unhinged she is.

https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/bncw5f/spoilers_the_queen_of_ashes_theory_updated/

BTW, John should've just given her the D and he could've saved so many lives. That was when she realized no one loved her and she only had fear to fall back on.

The Night King being a complete glass cannon is the most unforgivable thing about this show.

Clarett's Folly wrote:The Night King being a complete glass cannon is the most unforgivable thing about this show.

You nailed it a few days ago. The show sucks now and that’s ok!

Is this the show where people named their kids after this Danny lady, and now she's really, really mean?

NigelUno wrote:Is this the show where people named their kids after this Danny lady, and now she's really, really mean?

Oh wow, that's hilarious.

Clarett's Folly wrote:The Night King being a complete glass cannon is the most unforgivable thing about this show.

The series is going to end with someone's eyes lighting up blue. Watch.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

Clarett's Folly wrote:The Night King being a complete glass cannon is the most unforgivable thing about this show.

The series is going to end with someone's eyes lighting up blue. Watch.

Bran? He's got the Night King's mark on his arm...

StylesGShmooth wrote:IBTW, John should've just given her the D and he could've saved so many lives.

This

Watching a Dany compilation. These early clips are interesting

10:20 - Note she doesn't say "rightful heir to the Iron Throne"

https://ytcropper.com/cropped/tI5cdb72b592798

12:20 - "We will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground... starting with yours". Foreshadowing

https://ytcropper.com/cropped/tI5cdb704a4511f

13:30 -  Again no mention of "heir to the Iron throne' and more talk of burning stuff

https://ytcropper.com/cropped/tI5cdb70edb6ac4

Nordic wrote:Watching a Dany compilation. These early clips are interesting

10:20 - Note she doesn't say "rightful heir to the Iron Throne"

https://ytcropper.com/cropped/tI5cdb72b592798

12:20 - "We will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground... starting with yours". Foreshadowing

https://ytcropper.com/cropped/tI5cdb704a4511f

13:30 -  Again no mention of "heir to the Iron throne' and more talk of burning stuff

https://ytcropper.com/cropped/tI5cdb70edb6ac4

I already covered this shit for you people. You also missed her racial exploitation for 7 seasons in addition to her messiah complex.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

Clarett's Folly wrote:The Night King being a complete glass cannon is the most unforgivable thing about this show.

The series is going to end with someone's eyes lighting up blue. Watch.

Ray Liotta Chantix commercial blue?

Clarett's Folly wrote:The Night King being a complete glass cannon is the most unforgivable thing about this show.

I would have to agree that it was a really bad moment.

Here's the thing from my perspective though guys. She makes one more well placed comment about the people of KL rebelling on her father or how filthy it is there or some shit. And one more comment this season about her desire to storm the city and not caring about causalities as long as they end Cersei, perhaps in reference to a horrible thing that she's done to personally offend her (and I don't think Missandei really cuts it here, maybe the death of the dragon, I don't know). And I'm good. I'm buying it.

It's interesting to read back Dany's past comments, as I don't remember those specifics from early seasons. I think that she was made out as such a hero to the viewers that it's easy to not take those ominous words of her seriously over the years. Or perhaps to think of them as a rallying cry because it's "our" side, much like the tough talk of a general.

But I think it's more than just revenge on Kings Landing (though that plays into it). She would prefer to gain legitimacy as a ruler through love. That's what she's had with other cities, because she set them free. But all season, she has been gradually coming to the realization that she will never be loved there, and true fear is her only means of power.

Whether or not you like what they did, I think that's what they were going for, and it has been building to that. It feels out of character for her in some ways because we felt that she's good and didn't want to believe that the dark thoughts would win out.

Also, they made a point to revoke her hotness, as she looked like shit after not eating/sleeping for days, so there was really no reason to be on her side anymore.

She still looked better than Emilia Clarke.

https://youtu.be/-ikUYFK84OQ

MiamiSpartan wrote:It's interesting to read back Dany's past comments, as I don't remember those specifics from early seasons. I think that she was made out as such a hero to the viewers that it's easy to not take those ominous words of her seriously over the years. Or perhaps to think of them as a rallying cry because it's "our" side, much like the tough talk of a general.

But I think it's more than just revenge on Kings Landing (though that plays into it). She would prefer to gain legitimacy as a ruler through love. That's what she's had with other cities, because she set them free. But all season, she has been gradually coming to the realization that she will never be loved there, and true fear is her only means of power.

Whether or not you like what they did, I think that's what they were going for, and it has been building to that. It feels out of character for her in some ways because we felt that she's good and didn't want to believe that the dark thoughts would win out.

Also, they made a point to revoke her hotness, as she looked like shit after not eating/sleeping for days, so there was really no reason to be on her side anymore.

*gradually* does a hell of a lot of work in your post doesn’t it?

I think in retrospect the big problem here is that they sort of thought that you’d buy into the whole jon and Dani totes love each other now thing, but you really don’t. Why? Because they’ve loved each other for all of 15 minutes. If you contrast it with Jon and Ygritte.... you got several episodes, Hell an entire season, built around turning them from enemies to lovers. Here you’ve got Jon and Dani who just met like yesterday burning people alive because of each other. Come on now. It’s just silly. Maybe season 7 and 8 being the standard ten episodes would have been a good call, even if it meant a few boring ones where we watch “nothing.”

Or on the other hand Dani had no reason at all. Which is also silly nonsense. Crazy people don’t do crazy for no reason. They do crazy for a crazy reason.

I guess my beef is that it wouldn’t have been that hard to come up with a good reason why she felt like she needed to burn the whole city- even though she didn’t. Hell, our country has been waging war for no reason for decades in a city by city house to house style. Super easy to use us as inspiration. (Bin)

Anyway, have one scene where cersei put the scorpions in all the old brothels that littlefinger left abandoned. They’re everywhere it turns out. Have Dani go a little fucking overboard on murdering people trying to take them out, you know, kinda Cheney style, and have her die next week however you want just like you’re planning to do now. It’s not hard here.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:It's interesting to read back Dany's past comments, as I don't remember those specifics from early seasons.  I think that she was made out as such a hero to the viewers that it's easy to not take those ominous words of her seriously over the years.  Or perhaps to think of them as a rallying cry because it's "our" side, much like the tough talk of a general.

But I think it's more than just revenge on Kings Landing (though that plays into it).  She would prefer to gain legitimacy as a ruler through love.  That's what she's had with other cities, because she set them free.  But all season, she has been gradually coming to the realization that she will never be loved there, and true fear is her only means of power.

Whether or not you like what they did, I think that's what they were going for, and it has been building to that.  It feels out of character for her in some ways because we felt that she's good and didn't want to believe that the dark thoughts would win out.

Also, they made a point to revoke her hotness, as she looked like shit after not eating/sleeping for days, so there was really no reason to be on her side anymore.  

*gradually* does a hell of a lot of work in your post doesn’t it?

I think in retrospect the big problem here is that they sort of thought that you’d buy into the whole jon and Dani totes love each other now thing, but you really don’t. Why? Because they’ve loved each other for all of 15 minutes. If you contrast it with Jon and Ygritte.... you got several episodes, Hell an entire season, built around turning them from enemies to lovers. Here you’ve got Jon and Dani who just met like yesterday burning people alive because of each other. Come on now. It’s just silly. Maybe season 7 and 8 being the standard ten episodes would have been a good call, even if it meant a few boring ones where we watch “nothing.”

Or on the other hand Dani had no reason at all. Which is also silly nonsense. Crazy people don’t do crazy for no reason. They do crazy for a crazy reason.

Agree on the Jon/Dany love story. They could have vetted that out a little better. But they had to squeeze in dragons getting killed beyond the wall. That episode was the worst of the series and was the end of its greatness.

Disagree on the rest. Her rampage has been set up from S1 and having her do it for military reasons takes away from the effect. It also sets up a final confrontation. We will have to agree to disagree there.

Travis will never forgive you for this, Nordic.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:It's interesting to read back Dany's past comments, as I don't remember those specifics from early seasons. I think that she was made out as such a hero to the viewers that it's easy to not take those ominous words of her seriously over the years. Or perhaps to think of them as a rallying cry because it's "our" side, much like the tough talk of a general.

But I think it's more than just revenge on Kings Landing (though that plays into it). She would prefer to gain legitimacy as a ruler through love. That's what she's had with other cities, because she set them free. But all season, she has been gradually coming to the realization that she will never be loved there, and true fear is her only means of power.

Whether or not you like what they did, I think that's what they were going for, and it has been building to that. It feels out of character for her in some ways because we felt that she's good and didn't want to believe that the dark thoughts would win out.

Also, they made a point to revoke her hotness, as she looked like shit after not eating/sleeping for days, so there was really no reason to be on her side anymore.

*gradually* does a hell of a lot of work in your post doesn’t it?

I think in retrospect the big problem here is that they sort of thought that you’d buy into the whole jon and Dani totes love each other now thing, but you really don’t. Why? Because they’ve loved each other for all of 15 minutes. If you contrast it with Jon and Ygritte.... you got several episodes, Hell an entire season, built around turning them from enemies to lovers. Here you’ve got Jon and Dani who just met like yesterday burning people alive because of each other. Come on now. It’s just silly. Maybe season 7 and 8 being the standard ten episodes would have been a good call, even if it meant a few boring ones where we watch “nothing.”

Or on the other hand Dani had no reason at all. Which is also silly nonsense. Crazy people don’t do crazy for no reason. They do crazy for a crazy reason.

Or maybe because it's his aunt. I don't think I could ever feel for their "love" story, no matter how they built it up. I get that they said on the show that Targaryan's do that incest is best shit, but while Jon may be half Targaryan by blood, he wasn't raised as one and he seems to not even care about fucking his aunt (and so I don't think that's even why he pulled away from her).

So here is a lock prediction: no matter what happens tomorrow, OTPT will not like it.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I was surprised watching in the moment when he shanked her. I was not expecting that. The rest of it was pretty boring. Definitely would have liked to have seen what happened with Jon afterwards. Seems like Greyjoy would have had the Unsullied take him out for sure. Made little sense.

He went north to go hang out with north folk. Probably to rebuild. The unsullied kinda peaced out to Narth and the Greyjoys would have had to go directly against the Kings orders at that point. They couldn’t do anything immediately other than hold a grudge.

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:Anyway, here is how it will end. Dany claims victory over the ashes. Jon won't know what to do because he's fucking stupid. Arya will get caught trying to assassinate Dany and sentenced to die by barbecue. Bran wargs into the dragon at the last minute and eats Dany. The ever expanding Dothraki/Unsullied army quits and swims back to the other continent. Bran breaks the 4th wall and looks at the camera and apologizes to everyone watching for not finishing the source material in time for the show to end. Roll credits.

Hey, I was kinda close.

I didn't hate the ending. Were there parts that were done poorly, probably. It finished the story. This is probably the ending that GRRM gave to D&D, the problem was that they didn't know how to get there. Hopefully we get at least one more book. The turn that Daenarys took, was too fast.

Back inside from the outdoors.

He's right. Disease is everywhere.

I enjoyed not seeing the immediate impact of jon killing danerys. Let’s skip that and move ahead 3 weeks. How lazy

Floyd Robertson wrote:

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:Has there ever been a series finale that knocked your socks off? I can't think of one. They usually leave most people unhappy because network execs let a popular show go on way too long and the quality has gone downhill years back. Even the Leftovers (which was three seasons) finale was just ok. The real question is what is OTPT going to hate watch now?

IMHO, the Justified finale was a grand slam.

Agree on Justified. I imagine it's pretty difficult to end a show, but the Justified writers got that one right.

I did not mind last night's finale. The only people in the show with a sense of justice - abiding by the laws of the realm - were the Starks. In the end, after seemingly being punished for having a sense of justice, the Starks inherit the opportunity to shape a new Westeros. "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice."

Turtleneck wrote:Man says college is a waste and you don't learn anything. Same man says, "I inoculate myself. Germs are not a real thing. I can’t see them. Therefore they’re not real.” https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2019/02/11/why-fox-news-pete-hegseth-hasnt-washed-his-hands-in-10-years/#29d4452c1238

yikes - that is fairly frightening, though certainly not surprising. America is a stupid country.

but, at least folks like this are fun to mock. We gotta take what we can get.