Can Warren or Sanders beat Trump?

Base vs. all party members. Will the base pull Warren over the top and then discourage the general party population? Would Biden do the same thing the opposite way? Warren and Sanders seem to have the base fired up.

vs Trump I think both could win. He has his rabid knuckle dragging base and that’s it.

I think Elizabeth Warren definitely could and will. She is everything the racist, bigoted christian sexual predator wishes he could be.

from a numbers perspective, Sanders certainly could.. but, like a lot of folks, I'm sick of old white men.

Regarding Biden last time I checked he was leading the African American vote and yes he’d probably put off some of the Bernie Bros who will never vote for anyone they view as a corporatist but I think he’d do alright with white uneducated voters, women and the rust belt states. He’s beating trump in Ohio in the polls.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_warren-6251.html

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-6250.html

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_biden-6247.html

My main concern about Warren is really just misogyny in the media. Trump says ridiculous things like wind mills cause cancer, nuke hurricanes., fabricated that China called him twice to make a deal, leads send them back chants at klan rallies, says nice things about Nazis but they can’t forgive Warren for saying she’s part Cherokee and she’s apologized several times for it.

steveschneider wrote:Regarding Biden last time I checked he was leading the African American vote and yes he’d probably put off some of the Bernie Bros who will never vote for anyone they view as a corporatist but I think he’d do alright with white uneducated voters, women and the rust belt states. He’s beating trump in Ohio in the polls.

I keep hearing that from MSM in regards to how well Biden does in the Black community, but he's ranked #9 among candidates here.

Castro Punches His Ticket, Harris Starts to Fidget and Yang Starts to Kick It: 2020 Presidential Black Power Rankings, Week 8

steveschneider wrote:My main concern about Warren is really just misogyny in the media. Trump says ridiculous things like wind mills cause cancer, nuke hurricanes., fabricated that China called him twice to make a deal, leads send them back chants at klan rallies, says nice things about Nazis  but they can’t forgive Warren for saying she’s part Cherokee and she’s apologized several times for it.

it's what the mainstream media does.

As I've said before, they needed the racist, bigoted christian sexual predator to become president. Imagine what they would have to cover day in/day out if Hillary had won: discussions on income inequality, climate change, access to affordable healthcare, education, etc.

with the racist, bigoted christian sexual predator, they get white supremacist MAGA rallies, porn stars, christianity, MAGA-inspired mass shootings, children in cages, children dying at the border, etc.

turns out, that sort of thing is good for ratings.

The only democrat running who would lose is Biden.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:The only democrat running who would lose is Biden.

Biden is leading Trump in Ohio. Biden would mop the floor with Trump.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/454676-biden-is-only-top-2020-democrat-leading-trump-in-ohio-poll

Floyd Robertson wrote:

steveschneider wrote:Regarding Biden last time I checked he was leading the African American vote and yes he’d probably put off some of the Bernie Bros who will never vote for anyone they view as a corporatist but I think he’d do alright with white uneducated voters, women and the rust belt states. He’s beating trump in Ohio in the polls.

I keep hearing that from MSM in regards to how well Biden does in the Black community, but he's ranked #9 among candidates here.

Castro Punches His Ticket, Harris Starts to Fidget and Yang Starts to Kick It: 2020 Presidential Black Power Rankings, Week 8

I looked over his criteria and wonder how much he weighs the other factors in besides outside polling because like you I keep seeing he's doing really well with black voters. For a while Harris was pulling some support from him but from what I saw the older african americans were staying with Biden. I liked that list, good read.

steveschneider wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:The only democrat running who would lose is Biden.

Biden is leading Trump in Ohio. Biden would mop the floor with Trump.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/454676-biden-is-only-top-2020-democrat-leading-trump-in-ohio-poll

Biden ranks about 7th-8th for me on which candidate I would prefer but, obviously, I'll support whoever the candidate is.

that said, seems like any human being with a pulse would beat the racist, bigoted christian sexual predator but.. America is a stupid country and I wouldn't put anything past the average person walking the frozen food section at the local Wal-Mart.

steveschneider wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:The only democrat running who would lose is Biden.

Biden is leading Trump in Ohio. Biden would mop the floor with Trump.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/454676-biden-is-only-top-2020-democrat-leading-trump-in-ohio-poll

Neat. It’s august 2019.

Biden would lose. He has no message. Not a single person out there wants to vote for him. Your cable news pundit message will die out before November next year.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

Biden is leading Trump in Ohio. Biden would mop the floor with Trump.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/454676-biden-is-only-top-2020-democrat-leading-trump-in-ohio-poll

Neat. It’s august 2019.

Biden would lose. He has no message. Not a single person out there wants to vote for him. Your cable news pundit message will die out before November next year.

Sounds like you are going off a gut feeling. I've noted that you feel this way.

steveschneider wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Neat. It’s august 2019.

Biden would lose. He has no message. Not a single person out there wants to vote for him. Your cable news pundit message will die out before November next year.

Sounds like you are going off a gut feeling. I've noted that you feel this way.

“He has no message” is not a gut feeling. It’s a statement of fact. “No one wants to vote for him” is not a gut feeling either. Fact.

I’ll add another. His only “message” is “I’m not trump.” That’s not enough. And it’s something every other candidate has in common. The polls you referenced have done him, and us, absolutely no favors as he seems to think he can just sit back and ride them straight to the White House. He can’t.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

Sounds like you are going off a gut feeling. I've noted that you feel this way.

“He has no message” is not a gut feeling. It’s a statement of fact. “No one wants to vote for him” is not a gut feeling either. Fact.

I’ll add another. His only “message” is “I’m not trump.” That’s not enough. And it’s something every other candidate has in common. The polls you referenced have done him, and us, absolutely no favors as he seems to think he can just sit back and ride them straight to the White House. He can’t.

Came out with a health care plan that is popular. That's a message.

No one wants to vote for him just tells me you are ignoring all the polls and support he has from African American voters.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

Sounds like you are going off a gut feeling. I've noted that you feel this way.

“He has no message” is not a gut feeling. It’s a statement of fact. “No one wants to vote for him” is not a gut feeling either. Fact.

I’ll add another. His only “message” is “I’m not trump.” That’s not enough. And it’s something every other candidate has in common. The polls you referenced have done him, and us, absolutely no favors as he seems to think he can just sit back and ride them straight to the White House. He can’t.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/2020_democratic_presidential_nomination-6730.html

Let's take er down a good 20% there Travis.

steveschneider wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

“He has no message” is not a gut feeling. It’s a statement of fact. “No one wants to vote for him” is not a gut feeling either. Fact.

I’ll add another. His only “message” is “I’m not trump.” That’s not enough. And it’s something every other candidate has in common. The polls you referenced have done him, and us, absolutely no favors as he seems to think he can just sit back and ride them straight to the White House. He can’t.

Came out with a health care plan that is popular. That's a message.

No one wants to vote for him just tells me you are ignoring all the polls and support he has from African American voters.

Polls are not a reason. Everything you’re saying is polls. That’s the only reason you can dig up.

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

“He has no message” is not a gut feeling. It’s a statement of fact. “No one wants to vote for him” is not a gut feeling either. Fact.

I’ll add another. His only “message” is “I’m not trump.” That’s not enough. And it’s something every other candidate has in common. The polls you referenced have done him, and us, absolutely no favors as he seems to think he can just sit back and ride them straight to the White House. He can’t.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/2020_democratic_presidential_nomination-6730.html

Let's take er down a good 20% there Travis.

You’re very intentionally misunderstanding what I mean by wants.

Who is out there that is passionate about this guy? All there is is a bunch of Steve like cable news wannabes who see polls and think “we’ll i just don’t like trump and I want a different old white man.” That’s not sustainable.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/2020_democratic_presidential_nomination-6730.html

Let's take er down a good 20% there Travis.

You’re very intentionally misunderstanding what I mean by wants.

Who is out there that is passionate about this guy? All there is is a bunch of Steve like cable news wannabes who see polls and think “we’ll i just don’t like trump and I want a different old white man.” That’s not sustainable.

You'll see them all once he secures the nomination.

steveschneider wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

You’re very intentionally misunderstanding what I mean by wants.

Who is out there that is passionate about this guy? All there is is a bunch of Steve like cable news wannabes who see polls and think “we’ll i just don’t like trump and I want a different old white man.” That’s not sustainable.

You'll see them all once he secures the nomination.

God forbid.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/2020_democratic_presidential_nomination-6730.html

Let's take er down a good 20% there Travis.

You’re very intentionally misunderstanding what I mean by wants.

Who is out there that is passionate about this guy? All there is is a bunch of Steve like cable news wannabes who see polls and think “we’ll i just don’t like trump and I want a different old white man.” That’s not sustainable.

I'm sure there are a bunch of old white dudes who are fans. Unfortunately I can't find a poll that asks the question "Do you REALLY like Biden or do you just hate Trump more?"

Good pylon. You’re learning. Good. In August 2019 a poll doesn’t mean much. Stop looking. Listen to people talk. Listen to steve. He’s telling you why he supports him. It’s not because he likes Biden. It’s because cable news and Bill Maher tell him he would win. That’s it.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Good pylon. You’re learning. Good. In August 2019 a poll doesn’t mean much. Stop looking. Listen to people talk. Listen to steve. He’s telling you why he supports him. It’s not because he likes Biden. It’s because cable news and Bill Maher tell him he would win. That’s it.

Funny it's just August 2019 but for some reason you are able to declare on August 2019 who won't win it but anyone else that has an opinion in August 2019 is wrong because it's too early. Not too early for your opinion, but everyone else it is way too early. Got it.

Again, I've noted your gut feeling about the 2020 election.

steveschneider wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Good pylon. You’re learning. Good. In August 2019 a poll doesn’t mean much. Stop looking. Listen to people talk. Listen to steve. He’s telling you why he supports him. It’s not because he likes Biden. It’s because cable news and Bill Maher tell him he would win. That’s it.

Funny it's just August 2019 but for some reason you are able to declare on August 2019 who won't win it but anyone else that has an opinion in August 2019 is wrong because it's too early. Not too early for your opinion, but everyone else it is way too early. Got it.

Again, I've noted your gut feeling about the 2020 election.

These words don’t make any sense steve. None at all. I didn’t say you can’t have an opinion. I said an opinion fueled entirely on polls is a stupid opinion. You’re allowed to have it, sure, but it’s stupid.

steveschneider wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

“He has no message” is not a gut feeling. It’s a statement of fact. “No one wants to vote for him” is not a gut feeling either. Fact.

I’ll add another. His only “message” is “I’m not trump.” That’s not enough. And it’s something every other candidate has in common. The polls you referenced have done him, and us, absolutely no favors as he seems to think he can just sit back and ride them straight to the White House. He can’t.

Came out with a health care plan that is popular. That's a message.

No one wants to vote for him just tells me you are ignoring all the polls and support he has from African American voters.

Polls that are a year before even the primary, and 15 months before the election. Polls where most of the respondents have barely heard of anyone other than Biden. In other words, fairly pointless polls at this stage.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

Funny it's just August 2019 but for some reason you are able to declare on August 2019 who won't win it but anyone else that has an opinion in August 2019 is wrong because it's too early. Not too early for your opinion, but everyone else it is way too early. Got it.

Again, I've noted your gut feeling about the 2020 election.

These words don’t make any sense steve. None at all. I didn’t say you can’t have an opinion. I said an opinion fueled entirely on polls is a stupid opinion. You’re allowed to have it, sure, but it’s stupid.

Polls matter, ask Tulsi Gabbard who's only at 1% and won't make the next debates.

His new ad is getting covered on the NYT main page. Amazing coverage for someone nobody likes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/27/us/politics/joe-biden-ad-personal.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share

steveschneider wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Good pylon. You’re learning. Good. In August 2019 a poll doesn’t mean much. Stop looking. Listen to people talk. Listen to steve. He’s telling you why he supports him. It’s not because he likes Biden. It’s because cable news and Bill Maher tell him he would win. That’s it.

Funny it's just August 2019 but for some reason you are able to declare on August 2019 who won't win it but anyone else that has an opinion in August 2019 is wrong because it's too early. Not too early for your opinion, but everyone else it is way too early. Got it.

Again, I've noted your gut feeling about the 2020 election.

Steve you need to learn what we’ve all learned. You’re not allowed to use Travis own words to counterpoint his own words

steveschneider wrote:His new ad is getting covered on the NYT main page. Amazing coverage for someone nobody likes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/27/us/politics/joe-biden-ad-personal.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share

Amazing coverage.....

Dog you could have take a minute to explain why you actually like Biden, outside of polls, throughout this. But you haven’t. Because you can’t do it without saying “coverage” or “polls” or “he’s not trump and someone said he could win.” You’re actually proving my point with every post and making me even more certain that Biden carries the biggest risk of losing in the general election.

In other words, stop defending him with what other people think of him. Tell me what you think. Why do YOU like him. If it’s just polls then fine, it’s literally what I’m saying, but that’s foolish.

kingstonlake wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

Funny it's just August 2019 but for some reason you are able to declare on August 2019 who won't win it but anyone else that has an opinion in August 2019 is wrong because it's too early. Not too early for your opinion, but everyone else it is way too early. Got it.

Again, I've noted your gut feeling about the 2020 election.

Steve you need to learn what we’ve all learned. You’re not allowed to use Travis own words to counterpoint his own words

lol!!!

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

steveschneider wrote:His new ad is getting covered on the NYT main page. Amazing coverage for someone nobody likes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/27/us/politics/joe-biden-ad-personal.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share

Amazing coverage.....

Dog you could have take a minute to explain why you actually like Biden, outside of polls, throughout this. But you haven’t. Because you can’t do it without saying “coverage” or “polls” or “he’s not trump and someone said he could win.” You’re actually proving my point with every post and making me even more certain that Biden carries the biggest risk of losing in the general election.

Why do I like him? I think he's qualified, I think he has a health care plan that will make our system better and he has the best shot to win the electoral map which is more important that winning the popular vote.

steveschneider wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Amazing coverage.....

Dog you could have take a minute to explain why you actually like Biden, outside of polls, throughout this. But you haven’t. Because you can’t do it without saying “coverage” or “polls” or “he’s not trump and someone said he could win.” You’re actually proving my point with every post and making me even more certain that Biden carries the biggest risk of losing in the general election.

Why do I like him? I think he's qualified, I think he has a health care plan that will make our system better and he has the best shot to win the electoral map which is more important that winning the popular vote.

Steve, stop focusing on things like electability. If you like Gillibrand  vote for her because electability doesn’t matter. And why all the focusing on an electoral map? You act like it’s the foundation on determining a winner in a general election.

I'm just glad that y'all answered the original question posed by DWags.

Of course they can beat him.

Rocinante wrote:Of course they can beat him.

yep.

kingstonlake wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

Why do I like him? I think he's qualified, I think he has a health care plan that will make our system better and he has the best shot to win the electoral map which is more important that winning the popular vote.

Steve, stop focusing on things like electability. If you like Gillibrand  vote for her because electability doesn’t matter. And why all the focusing on an electoral map? You act like it’s the foundation on determining a winner in a general election.

Good job Kingston, that is accurate.

I’ve told you all before but I do not think you’re listening. The most electable person is the one that gets the most votes in the primary. The rest is just hot air that you’re being spoon fed from pundits.

steveschneider wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Amazing coverage.....

Dog you could have take a minute to explain why you actually like Biden, outside of polls, throughout this. But you haven’t. Because you can’t do it without saying “coverage” or “polls” or “he’s not trump and someone said he could win.” You’re actually proving my point with every post and making me even more certain that Biden carries the biggest risk of losing in the general election.

Why do I like him? I think he's qualified, I think he has a health care plan that will make our system better and he has the best shot to win the electoral map which is more important that winning the popular vote.

You were doing so well until the last sentence. Just couldn’t help it.

Dog I just don’t think it’s very smart for you to base your vote on what you think will happen in ohio or Florida 15 months from now based on polls that, like Miami said, are barely instructive at all at this point. It’s not wise.

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_warren-6251.html

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-6250.html

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_biden-6247.html

I still think trump voters don’t tell the surveys they’re voting for him.