Re: Rocket Watts in the portal...

by **Motown Spartan** 2021-03-29, 20:29

The Pantry wrote:
steveschneider wrote:

If you don’t have anything nice to say...
Call it hard love, if you want.

Douche

by **The Pantry** 2021-03-29, 20:33

Motown Spartan wrote:
The Pantry wrote:Call it hard love, if you want.

Douche

snowflake

by **Nordic** 2021-03-29, 20:55

kingstonlake wrote:
WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Kithier is a good player and would be one of those plug and play Sr role players for Izzo next year if there was room at the 4. Like a Goins or a McQuaid etc. Kids get better under Izzo and by the time they are Srs they are very solid players, even if off the bench. He's just too small for the 5, and he has Hall and Hauser in front of him at the 4. I'd love to have him back but there's not a great path to PT. I'd love to have any kid back who wants to come back. No better guy to learn hoops and life under than TI.

Edit to clarify - I am aware that MM is not a 4.

I believe Izzo really likes him. I've seen him put an undersized Kithier in the game to defend much bigger guys that he has no business guarding over guys who are physically better match ups. I think it says a ton about how Izzo thinks the kid works.

Kithier is a very smart and cagey player. Ball finds him because he is usually in a good spot. He just lacks size. He can't grow, but I think 15lbs of muscle would do him good.

I would be surprised if Loyer transfers. I just don't see him leaving MSU, his teammates, learning from a HoF coach, MSU degree(s) to chase more PT at a MAC school. Same with Kithier, not considering personal stuff. I'm guessing both know who they are as players and I doubt either has aspirations to play after MSU. Both probably would of thrived in the MAC from the jump, seems kind of pointless now.

by AvgMSUJoe 2021-03-29, 21:03

https://twitter.com/MSU_Basketball/status/1376645521113239554?s=19
[tw]1376645521113239554[/tw]

Izzo classy statement.

by **kingstonlake** 2021-03-29, 21:04

The Pantry wrote:
Motown Spartan wrote:

Douche
snowflake

While his play can be frustrating, there are a few former Spartans I'd gladly say "don't let the door hit you on the way out", Watts isn't one of them. Never heard anything bad about him.

by **The Pantry** 2021-03-29, 21:08

kingstonlake wrote:
The Pantry wrote:
snowflake

While his play can be frustrating, there are a few former Spartans I'd gladly say "don't let the door hit you on the way out", Watts isn't one of them. Never heard anything bad about him.

He begged out. Not Spartan material.

by **InTenSity** 2021-03-29, 21:09

Best of luck to him. I probably had too many expectations. Izzo statement clarifies a few things. Is there also a message to Loyer? Or were they supposed to split time?

by **kingstonlake** 2021-03-29, 21:09

The Pantry wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

While his play can be frustrating, there are a few former Spartans I'd gladly say "don't let the door hit you on the way out", Watts isn't one of them. Never heard anything bad about him.
He begged out. Not Spartan material.

LOL

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2021-03-29, 21:13

What a loser (not referring to watts)

by **The Pantry** 2021-03-29, 21:16

kingstonlake wrote:
The Pantry wrote:He begged out. Not Spartan material.

LOL

Why "LOL"? He didn't want to be here anymore. Not Spartan material.

by **kingstonlake** 2021-03-29, 21:22

The Pantry wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

LOL
Why "LOL"? He didn't want to be here anymore. Not Spartan material.

Rocket Watts in the portal... - Page 2 200.gif?cid=ddb306a5fr1dfcy1svsdc4e3l5moqa55n6swpo6f0fbujdlt&rid=200

by **Nordic** 2021-03-29, 21:39

kingstonlake wrote:
The Pantry wrote:
snowflake

While his play can be frustrating, there are a few former Spartans I'd gladly say "don't let the door hit you on the way out", Watts isn't one of them. Never heard anything bad about him.

It looked like he tried to change his game to fit Izzo's system. It didn't work out. GL to him

by **DWags** 2021-03-29, 21:58

The Pantry wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

LOL
Why "LOL"? He didn't want to be here anymore. Not Spartan material.

I always think of my brother. He could really spin the ball in h.s. set some passing records but man I'saw him spin it 50-60 yards to some of his receivers. He was good. He was offered by Wyoming, Central, Western etc. He wasn't a big ten quarterback, but Sherm Lewis convinced him to got to MSU. Might have been because he didn't want to go out of state, maybe he thought he was better than what he was, who knows. Well, he got there and Rogers just said "All QB's I didn't recruit, move em". My brother was asked to play defensive back. In other words, not what was promised, not what was on his mind. I also didn't think he had anywhere near the heart to play on that side of the ball. So, after he got hurt in a practice, he decided screw it, I'm leaving. Going to try to play QB somewhere. He did everything that was asked from him that year. He was practice fodder, he was a tackling dummy. But he showed up and gave it everything in practice every day. So, he left after the season. I don't think he wasn't "Spartan Material" especially because he did everything that was asked and never complained. Did Rocket complain? I know he had that tweet, but other than that, we never heard a damn thing out of him. Anyway. I think your take is short sighted. But it's your's so there it is.

by **steveschneider** 2021-03-29, 22:24

I hope Watts lights up Duke and makes Louisville fans proud.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2021-03-29, 23:15

That's a great anecdote about your bro Wags. It's definitely a two way street and I'm actually happy for the student athletes that they finally have some power.

by **Nordic** 2021-03-30, 00:43

Soooooo...where did he end up Dwags?

by AvgMSUJoe 2021-03-30, 06:48

With the kids having a little power now, the paradigm shift in college athletics will be huge. Hell, high school coaches don't understand student athletes these days.

by **steveschneider** 2021-03-30, 07:15

The Pantry wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

While his play can be frustrating, there are a few former Spartans I'd gladly say "don't let the door hit you on the way out", Watts isn't one of them. Never heard anything bad about him.
He begged out. Not Spartan material.

That’s crazy to just wish away talent like that. End of Freshman year he was putting up 18 points a game and here he was about to head into junior year where he actually had an off season to practice. Every game this year where he was rolling we looked like a legit top ten team. Even vs UCLA when it looked like we were going to blow them out of the water in the first half he was playing good. The correct move is to want to keep a talent like that and figure out ways to make it easier for him to score. How do we open up some lanes for him, how do we get him opportunities off the ball?

by **DWags** 2021-03-30, 07:29

Nordic wrote:Soooooo...where did he end up Dwags?

Lol, I haven’t told this story? He went to Michigan Tech. Coaches were pleased he was loving life. His fixed knee (in 77 surgery wasn’t as good I guess) blows up when he genuflects in Church. No joke. So, his career is basically done. He still has problems to this day.

But this I the best part. In 79 he then transfers to Michigan and gets a Ba and Ma from Uofm.

Name another person that played football at MSU but their college degrees say uofm. Probably a few others or vica versa but it has to be a small club.

by **NigelUno** 2021-03-30, 09:50

The Pantry wrote:
Motown Spartan wrote:

You know how I know you’re a douche?
Piss up a rope. Players don't read this board.

So, you know you're a douche...

by **Other Teams Pursuing That** 2021-03-30, 10:02

Spartan material Rocket Watts in the portal... - Page 2 1966794946

Imagine typing that behind a keyboard on a fucking message board.

by **steveschneider** 2021-03-30, 10:10

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Spartan material

Imagine typing that behind a keyboard on a fucking message board.

All the big wins this season including our Big Ten Conference championship last year have Rocket's thumb prints all over it. If that isn't 'Spartan Material' I don't know what is.

by **Motown Spartan** 2021-03-30, 10:15

Rocket Watts has to deal with more pressure and higher expectations at age 20 than most of us will ever have to at anytime in our lives. He has about a 4 year window to execute a plan that can potentially lead to multi-generational wealth for his family and a lot of “fans” just want him to know his role accept his fate. If any of us have the opportunity to change our lives for what we feel is for the best there is no one to publicly criticize us and as a matter of fact we would usually get lauded for it.

Embrace the kid for making what had to be a gut wrenching decision.

I am truly sorry to see him go and truly wish him the best. If MSU doesn’t win a championship while he is still in college, I hope he does.

by **steveschneider** 2021-03-30, 10:33

Motown Spartan wrote:Rocket Watts has to deal with more pressure and higher expectations at age 20 than most of us will ever have to at anytime in our lives. He has about a 4 year window to execute a plan that can potentially lead to multi-generational wealth for his family and a lot of “fans” just want him to know his role accept his fate. If any of us have the opportunity to change our lives for what we feel is for the best there is no one to publicly criticize us and as a matter of fact we would usually get lauded for it.

Embrace the kid for making what had to be a gut wrenching decision.

I am truly sorry to see him go and truly wish him the best. If MSU doesn’t win a championship while he is still in college, I hope he does.

Me too. I was hoping all year he'd catch fire again.

The big wound that is opened up through all of this is obvious...we were all deprived of seeing a 2019 run that would have featured a back court of Winston and a Rocket that was really lifting off.

by **StylesGShmooth** 2021-03-30, 11:26

Way more likely than him 'begging' out, it was suggested that he transfer. Pretty apparent he was going to be behind all 4 of the guys coming in. Undersized 2 that doesn't shoot that well was not getting many minutes next year. I'm sure he and team advisors (including Izzo) thought he would have much better opportunities somewhere else. That's pretty much been the thing with every hoops transfer we've had leave here.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2021-03-30, 11:48

FWIW from everything I've heard Izzo wanted him back. He loves Rocket. This was a push by Mark Sr, and has been in the works for some time. He was reaching out to Louisville in like December/January timeframe. Some have alluded to the fact that Izzo has known he was likely to leave for awhile, and that is why Izzo arranged to get his mom to the Brez for the UM game - might be her only chance to see him play in person. It may be for the best for him - fresh start, etc.

Also I don't think Izzo suggests anyone should leave, even in this brave new world. I think he has a conversation with each player about what their goals are and is 100% honest about how likely they are to accomplish those goals at MSU. If a kid says he wants 28+ minutes because he wants to play pro ball after next season (this is just a hypothetical) and Izzo says yeah I can't guarantee that, I'm bringing in a transfer and I will need to find minutes for this freshman to develop and the best players will play, then the writing is on the wall. Similarly as Nordy mentioned if a kid comes to him and says I love it here, I am a Captain, I want to be a part of the team next year, I want to compete and if there are 3 guys better than me at my spot and I'm on the end of the bench, so be it, I think Izzo is like "cool".

I don't think Izzo believes in processing kids, or views kids as a "wasted scholarship" the way some fans do.

This is just my read based off of tidbits that I pick up here and there. Not fact.

by **DWags** 2021-03-30, 13:03

Motown Spartan wrote:Rocket Watts has to deal with more pressure and higher expectations at age 20 than most of us will ever have to at anytime in our lives. He has about a 4 year window to execute a plan that can potentially lead to multi-generational wealth for his family and a lot of “fans” just want him to know his role accept his fate. If any of us have the opportunity to change our lives for what we feel is for the best there is no one to publicly criticize us and as a matter of fact we would usually get lauded for it.

Embrace the kid for making what had to be a gut wrenching decision.

I am truly sorry to see him go and truly wish him the best. If MSU doesn’t win a championship while he is still in college, I hope he does.

Right on. All of this

by **DWags** 2021-03-30, 13:10

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:FWIW from everything I've heard Izzo wanted him back. He loves Rocket. This was a push by Mark Sr, and has been in the works for some time. He was reaching out to Louisville in like December/January timeframe. Some have alluded to the fact that Izzo has known he was likely to leave for awhile, and that is why Izzo arranged to get his mom to the Brez for the UM game - might be her only chance to see him play in person. It may be for the best for him - fresh start, etc.

Also I don't think Izzo suggests anyone should leave, even in this brave new world. I think he has a conversation with each player about what their goals are and is 100% honest about how likely they are to accomplish those goals at MSU. If a kid says he wants 28+ minutes because he wants to play pro ball after next season (this is just a hypothetical) and Izzo says yeah I can't guarantee that, I'm bringing in a transfer and I will need to find minutes for this freshman to develop and the best players will play, then the writing is on the wall. Similarly as Nordy mentioned if a kid comes to him and says I love it here, I am a Captain, I want to be a part of the team next year, I want to compete and if there are 3 guys better than me at my spot and I'm on the end of the bench, so be it, I think Izzo is like "cool".

I don't think Izzo believes in processing kids, or views kids as a "wasted scholarship" the way some fans do.

This is just my read based off of tidbits that I pick up here and there. Not fact.

I think in a nutshell, unless we’ve all been fooled by that livable little elf, this is why many Spartans were outraged by the ESPN thing. If anything this man is pretty damn straight forward. WBH put it in pretty good terms here. Like I say , unless he’s a master manipulator, this is the Izzo we all seem to know. Or think we know. I don’t think you get that loyalty he gets from past players if you’ve not been honest with them.

by **Turtleneck** 2021-03-30, 13:24

DWags wrote:
WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:FWIW from everything I've heard Izzo wanted him back. He loves Rocket. This was a push by Mark Sr, and has been in the works for some time. He was reaching out to Louisville in like December/January timeframe. Some have alluded to the fact that Izzo has known he was likely to leave for awhile, and that is why Izzo arranged to get his mom to the Brez for the UM game - might be her only chance to see him play in person. It may be for the best for him - fresh start, etc.

Also I don't think Izzo suggests anyone should leave, even in this brave new world. I think he has a conversation with each player about what their goals are and is 100% honest about how likely they are to accomplish those goals at MSU. If a kid says he wants 28+ minutes because he wants to play pro ball after next season (this is just a hypothetical) and Izzo says yeah I can't guarantee that, I'm bringing in a transfer and I will need to find minutes for this freshman to develop and the best players will play, then the writing is on the wall. Similarly as Nordy mentioned if a kid comes to him and says I love it here, I am a Captain, I want to be a part of the team next year, I want to compete and if there are 3 guys better than me at my spot and I'm on the end of the bench, so be it, I think Izzo is like "cool".

I don't think Izzo believes in processing kids, or views kids as a "wasted scholarship" the way some fans do.

This is just my read based off of tidbits that I pick up here and there. Not fact.

I think in a nutshell, unless we’ve all been fooled by that livable little elf, this is why many Spartans were outraged by the ESPN thing. If anything this man is pretty damn straight forward. WBH put it in pretty good terms here. Like I say , unless he’s a master manipulator, this is the Izzo we all seem to know. Or think we know. I don’t think you get that loyalty he gets from past players if you’ve not been honest with them.

Now that the NCAA has free agency maybe they should adopt some tampering policies.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2021-03-30, 13:35

DWags wrote:
WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:FWIW from everything I've heard Izzo wanted him back. He loves Rocket. This was a push by Mark Sr, and has been in the works for some time. He was reaching out to Louisville in like December/January timeframe. Some have alluded to the fact that Izzo has known he was likely to leave for awhile, and that is why Izzo arranged to get his mom to the Brez for the UM game - might be her only chance to see him play in person. It may be for the best for him - fresh start, etc.

Also I don't think Izzo suggests anyone should leave, even in this brave new world. I think he has a conversation with each player about what their goals are and is 100% honest about how likely they are to accomplish those goals at MSU. If a kid says he wants 28+ minutes because he wants to play pro ball after next season (this is just a hypothetical) and Izzo says yeah I can't guarantee that, I'm bringing in a transfer and I will need to find minutes for this freshman to develop and the best players will play, then the writing is on the wall. Similarly as Nordy mentioned if a kid comes to him and says I love it here, I am a Captain, I want to be a part of the team next year, I want to compete and if there are 3 guys better than me at my spot and I'm on the end of the bench, so be it, I think Izzo is like "cool".

I don't think Izzo believes in processing kids, or views kids as a "wasted scholarship" the way some fans do.

This is just my read based off of tidbits that I pick up here and there. Not fact.

I think in a nutshell, unless we’ve all been fooled by that livable little elf, this is why many Spartans were outraged by the ESPN thing. If anything this man is pretty damn straight forward. WBH put it in pretty good terms here. Like I say , unless he’s a master manipulator, this is the Izzo we all seem to know. Or think we know. I don’t think you get that loyalty he gets from past players if you’ve not been honest with them.

Right on Wags. I'm not saying the man is a Saint but he's as honest and transparent as they come.

Moreover, if one wanted to get out their jump to conclusions mat based off of the way this whole Rocket thing has played out - and this is honestly just me being stupid amateur detective and may not be the case at all - one might make a reasonable leap that Rocket himself didn't want to leave. Possibly that Rocket himself was not the one pushing the 'I want to play the 2' narrative to Izzo earlier this season (or that it was not his idea in the first place, but he was convinced by others that this is what was best for him and that he needed to talk to Izzo about). The way his post reads, the insider tidbits, the timetable - I don't think it's an unreasonable theory.

Also not trying to disparage Sr. Even if that was the case, everyone wants the best for their kids, and parents usually think they know what is best for their kids.

by **MiamiSpartan** 2021-03-30, 14:26

DWags wrote:
WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:FWIW from everything I've heard Izzo wanted him back. He loves Rocket. This was a push by Mark Sr, and has been in the works for some time. He was reaching out to Louisville in like December/January timeframe. Some have alluded to the fact that Izzo has known he was likely to leave for awhile, and that is why Izzo arranged to get his mom to the Brez for the UM game - might be her only chance to see him play in person. It may be for the best for him - fresh start, etc.

Also I don't think Izzo suggests anyone should leave, even in this brave new world. I think he has a conversation with each player about what their goals are and is 100% honest about how likely they are to accomplish those goals at MSU. If a kid says he wants 28+ minutes because he wants to play pro ball after next season (this is just a hypothetical) and Izzo says yeah I can't guarantee that, I'm bringing in a transfer and I will need to find minutes for this freshman to develop and the best players will play, then the writing is on the wall. Similarly as Nordy mentioned if a kid comes to him and says I love it here, I am a Captain, I want to be a part of the team next year, I want to compete and if there are 3 guys better than me at my spot and I'm on the end of the bench, so be it, I think Izzo is like "cool".

I don't think Izzo believes in processing kids, or views kids as a "wasted scholarship" the way some fans do.

This is just my read based off of tidbits that I pick up here and there. Not fact.

I think in a nutshell, unless we’ve all been fooled by that livable little elf, this is why many Spartans were outraged by the ESPN thing. If anything this man is pretty damn straight forward. WBH put it in pretty good terms here. Like I say , unless he’s a master manipulator, this is the Izzo we all seem to know. Or think we know. I don’t think you get that loyalty he gets from past players if you’ve not been honest with them.

I'm sure Kathy Redmond and her ilk would point out that the loyalty is forced due to Izzo threatening their families or otherwise blackmailing them, like he did to Stuart Dunnings III (according to Redmond) to say that no crime took place in one of those cases (Appling/Payne, maybe?).

But yes, for those of us living within some semblance of reality, this is yet another example of why that ESPN shit was so absurd.

by **Turtleneck** 2021-03-30, 14:36

MiamiSpartan wrote:
DWags wrote:

I think in a nutshell, unless we’ve all been fooled by that livable little elf, this is why many Spartans were outraged by the ESPN thing. If anything this man is pretty damn straight forward. WBH put it in pretty good terms here. Like I say , unless he’s a master manipulator, this is the Izzo we all seem to know. Or think we know. I don’t think you get that loyalty he gets from past players if you’ve not been honest with them.

I'm sure Kathy Redmond and her ilk would point out that the loyalty is forced due to Izzo threatening their families or otherwise blackmailing them, like he did to Stuart Dunnings III (according to Redmond) to say that no crime took place in one of those cases (Appling/Payne, maybe?).

But yes, for those of us living within some semblance of reality, this is yet another example of why that ESPN shit was so absurd.

I don't know anything about Tom Izzo. I do not trust ESPN, but I will equally refrain from granting him sainthood because he coaches my favorite college basketball program.

by **StylesGShmooth** 2021-03-30, 14:46

To be clear, I'm not suggesting he was forced out. I am saying though that they sat him down and said if you're looking for significant playing time next year or even a starting role that it's not likely to happen here.

by **DWags** 2021-03-30, 14:52

Turtleneck wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:

I'm sure Kathy Redmond and her ilk would point out that the loyalty is forced due to Izzo threatening their families or otherwise blackmailing them, like he did to Stuart Dunnings III (according to Redmond) to say that no crime took place in one of those cases (Appling/Payne, maybe?).

But yes, for those of us living within some semblance of reality, this is yet another example of why that ESPN shit was so absurd.

I don't know anything about Tom Izzo. I do not trust ESPN, but I will equally refrain from granting him sainthood because he coaches my favorite college basketball program.

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by **NigelUno** 2021-03-30, 15:00

DWags wrote:
WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:FWIW from everything I've heard Izzo wanted him back. He loves Rocket. This was a push by Mark Sr, and has been in the works for some time. He was reaching out to Louisville in like December/January timeframe. Some have alluded to the fact that Izzo has known he was likely to leave for awhile, and that is why Izzo arranged to get his mom to the Brez for the UM game - might be her only chance to see him play in person. It may be for the best for him - fresh start, etc.

Also I don't think Izzo suggests anyone should leave, even in this brave new world. I think he has a conversation with each player about what their goals are and is 100% honest about how likely they are to accomplish those goals at MSU. If a kid says he wants 28+ minutes because he wants to play pro ball after next season (this is just a hypothetical) and Izzo says yeah I can't guarantee that, I'm bringing in a transfer and I will need to find minutes for this freshman to develop and the best players will play, then the writing is on the wall. Similarly as Nordy mentioned if a kid comes to him and says I love it here, I am a Captain, I want to be a part of the team next year, I want to compete and if there are 3 guys better than me at my spot and I'm on the end of the bench, so be it, I think Izzo is like "cool".

I don't think Izzo believes in processing kids, or views kids as a "wasted scholarship" the way some fans do.

This is just my read based off of tidbits that I pick up here and there. Not fact.

I think in a nutshell, unless we’ve all been fooled by that livable little elf, this is why many Spartans were outraged by the ESPN thing. If anything this man is pretty damn straight forward. WBH put it in pretty good terms here. Like I say , unless he’s a master manipulator, this is the Izzo we all seem to know. Or think we know. I don’t think you get that loyalty he gets from past players if you’ve not been honest with them.

I think they wanted Rocket to stay. If he was going to manipulate the roster with the addition of Walker, there were probably 3 other players who will be impacted more at the PG position. I think he would have seen plenty of time at the 2. Now, if we add one more player, there might be an issue with players at the 2/3 getting shots.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2021-03-30, 15:05

StylesGShmooth wrote:To be clear, I'm not suggesting he was forced out. I am saying though that they sat him down and said if you're looking for significant playing time next year or even a starting role that it's not likely to happen here.

I got you. At first read that's what I thought you were saying but then when I re-read I thought you were probably saying that it was a suggestion from outside forces (family, etc).

by **Turtleneck** 2021-03-30, 15:06

DWags wrote:
Turtleneck wrote:

I don't know anything about Tom Izzo. I do not trust ESPN, but I will equally refrain from granting him sainthood because he coaches my favorite college basketball program.

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Not really. There are some definite sycophants in the fan base.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2021-03-30, 15:07

Turtleneck wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:

I'm sure Kathy Redmond and her ilk would point out that the loyalty is forced due to Izzo threatening their families or otherwise blackmailing them, like he did to Stuart Dunnings III (according to Redmond) to say that no crime took place in one of those cases (Appling/Payne, maybe?).

But yes, for those of us living within some semblance of reality, this is yet another example of why that ESPN shit was so absurd.

I don't know anything about Tom Izzo. I do not trust ESPN, but I will equally refrain from granting him sainthood because he coaches my favorite college basketball program.

I'm not personally proclaiming sainthood for him, in fact I even stated that. But I have 25+ years of pretty good evidence (some anecdotal, some factual, some even personal) that says he is pretty damn transparent and honest. If he were killing babies on his off days I think some of that may have come to light by now.

by **DWags** 2021-03-30, 15:11

Turtleneck wrote:
DWags wrote:

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Not really. There are some definite sycophants in the fan base.

Waters wet. Name a fan base that doesn’t have their share.

by **Turtleneck** 2021-03-30, 15:13

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:
Turtleneck wrote:

I don't know anything about Tom Izzo. I do not trust ESPN, but I will equally refrain from granting him sainthood because he coaches my favorite college basketball program.

I'm not personally proclaiming sainthood for him, in fact I even stated that. But I have 25+ years of pretty good evidence (some anecdotal, some factual, some even personal) that says he is pretty damn transparent and honest. If he were killing babies on his off days I think some of that may have come to light by now.

Killing babies is a pretty extreme example. Seems like you're trying to tell us something.

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