Are we supposed to be upset about Afghanistan?

GRR Spartan wrote:It’s easy to ask why we didn’t evacuate Afghan nationals who assisted the US but the cold hard truth based on how many Afghans chose to let the Taliban take control is I don’t think everyone who helped the US was necessarily an ally and would have given the Taliban a heads up on too many details.

Good to see FL US Senator is worried about the deficit again.  He wasn’t concerned when he voted for the 2017  Tax Act that cut Federal revenue and cut his taxes (he’s the richest US Senator @ $250M+)

Do governors vote for Federal Tax Acts now?  Because Dick Scott was Governor then.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

GRR Spartan wrote:It’s easy to ask why we didn’t evacuate Afghan nationals who assisted the US but the cold hard truth based on how many Afghans chose to let the Taliban take control is I don’t think everyone who helped the US was necessarily an ally and would have given the Taliban a heads up on too many details.

Good to see FL US Senator is worried about the deficit again.  He wasn’t concerned when he voted for the 2017  Tax Act that cut Federal revenue and cut his taxes (he’s the richest US Senator @ $250M+)

Do governors vote for Federal Tax Acts now?  Because Dick Scott was Governor then.

You are correct. He was running Florida into a ditch while taking advatage of that state’s regressive taxes and cheering the passage of the tax act that helped him a bunch.

He’s also the SOB who was running United Health that was fined million$ for defrauding Medicare.

Yes, he's a piece of shit and a pro-Seditionist, who has harmed me and people I know.

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A one day poll? Get the fuck out of here.

Good thread alert

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So much for the ‘fall of Saigon’ comparisons, the ‘permanent stain on his legacy’ and ‘they’ll be studying this policy disaster for years’ takes. Awful week for the media and pundits.

it's pretty clear that the GOP is upset about Afghanistan because their attempt to do the same thing on January 6th failed.

it'll be successful next time unless the limp-spined Democrats and DOJ do something to secure voting rights and prosecute the ringleaders of the insurrection (the racist, bigoted christian sexual predator, his filthy, mutant offspring, Guiliani, Hawley, Cruz, et al) and the people who provided them access to the Capitol, aid and comfort.

So let me get this straight. While Trump was in office he negotiated with the Taliban so that we could pull our troops out and they could have their country back. To show he was serious he released 5,000 Taliban that we had captive and set a date for the US to pull out all the troops. The date came and since Trump's coup didn't work out too well for him and he didn't get to install himself as dictator for life Afghanistan was left up to President Biden who went ahead and pulled the troops out according to plan. Now that the Taliban took over it's Biden fault, even through there was an agreement in place?

Jake from State Farm wrote:So let me get this straight. While Trump was in office he negotiated with the Taliban so that we could pull our troops out and they could have their country back. To show he was serious he released 5,000 Taliban that we had captive and set a date for the US to pull out all the troops. The date came and since Trump's coup didn't work out too well for him and he didn't get to install himself as dictator for life Afghanistan was left up to President Biden who went ahead and pulled the troops out according to plan. Now that the Taliban took over it's Biden fault, even through there was an agreement in place?

That's more or less how I understand it. One of those freed is now the presumptive leader of Afghanistan, by the way.

The intelligence reports seemed to indicate they thought that Afghani fighters could hold off the Taliban for 18 months once withdrawal started, giving time for a more orderly evacuation. If that's true, it's not a good look for the intelligence reports. If it's not true, and Biden was given a more dire outlook, the disorderly evacuation is on him.

Jake from State Farm wrote:So let me get this straight. While Trump was in office he negotiated with the Taliban so that we could pull our troops out and they could have their country back. To show he was serious he released 5,000 Taliban that we had captive and set a date for the US to pull out all the troops. The date came and since Trump's coup didn't work out too well for him and he didn't get to install himself as dictator for life Afghanistan was left up to President Biden who went ahead and pulled the troops out according to plan. Now that the Taliban took over it's Biden fault, even through there was an agreement in place?

pretty much.

Congratulations.. your attention to detail and facts prohibits you from ever working for a mainstream media "news" outlet.

One slight thing missing that is somewhat inconsequential but I’m sorry I’m a stickler for detail Jake. Biden didn’t quite pull the troops out according to trumps plan, that plan was originally may and he delayed it to august.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:One slight thing missing that is somewhat inconsequential but I’m sorry I’m a stickler for detail Jake. Biden didn’t quite pull the troops out according to trumps plan, that plan was originally may and he delayed it to august.

Well there you go. Three months earlier and everything would have gone smoothly.

Well I didn’t say that I just wanted to make sure that the record reflects that the swill is a bastion for truth and accuracy.

I'm assuming these intelligence reports were in place. Who in the fuck told Donnie what he wanted to hear in regards to the Afghans holding out for 18 While he (after winning re election) withdrew troops.

kingstonlake wrote:I'm assuming these intelligence reports were in place. Who in the fuck told Donnie what he wanted to hear in regards to the Afghans holding out for 18 While he (after winning re election) withdrew troops.

I'm sure the list is about 30 miles long of the people that told Donny what he wanted to hear. Probably because they preferred the future of their job security over the future of their country.

Floyd Robertson wrote:

Jake from State Farm wrote:So let me get this straight. While Trump was in office he negotiated with the Taliban so that we could pull our troops out and they could have their country back. To show he was serious he released 5,000 Taliban that we had captive and set a date for the US to pull out all the troops. The date came and since Trump's coup didn't work out too well for him and he didn't get to install himself as dictator for life Afghanistan was left up to President Biden who went ahead and pulled the troops out according to plan. Now that the Taliban took over it's Biden fault, even through there was an agreement in place?

That's more or less how I understand it. One of those freed is now the presumptive leader of Afghanistan, by the way.

The intelligence reports seemed to indicate they thought that Afghani fighters could hold off the Taliban for 18 months once withdrawal started, giving time for a more orderly evacuation. If that's true, it's not a good look for the intelligence reports. If it's not true, and Biden was given a more dire outlook, the disorderly evacuation is on him.

It is not true. There were lots of intel reports predicting a Taliban takeover that could quickly accelerate as they gained territory, and reports that the Afghan military weren't going to fight. As the summer went on, these reports got bleaker.

Of course, intelligence on things like this aren't 100% firm, so no one was saying, "This will definitely happen" (it is predicting the collective behavior of tens of thousands of people). They give different scenarios and discuss the likelihood of each. If someone wants to say that the discussions from various governmental groups (intel, diplomatic, political, and military) came to a different conclusion on the likelihood, fine. But it isn't the intelligence failure that some want to paint it as, considering that there was intelligence presented to the administration that discussed a rapid collapse.

All we will hear about from now until November 2024 is how Biden lost Afghanistan.

I have yet to find any Trump supporter who was willing to go or send their sons/grandsons to Afghanistan and fight for the Afghani's who didn't want to fight.

But you don’t live n Taiwan, you live in a Northern MI vacation spot in a dual income household with good health insurance and at one time were maneuvering your assets to virtual currency.

None of the now vociferous Stateside Outrage Brigade lifted a finger to support Afghan relief efforts for women’s medical needs and education for Afghanistan’s female population in the two decades the US occupied the country attempting to prop up a government.

The Stateside Civilian Outrage Brigade never gave a damn about the 1000’s of MI National Guardsman who were called to active duty in Iraq and Afghanistan over the last two decades.

I heard the same blather afyer April of 1975 from people too old to serve and after the fact from those fortunate enough to avoid the draft.

Rave on tTy.

Floyd Robertson wrote:

Jake from State Farm wrote:So let me get this straight. While Trump was in office he negotiated with the Taliban so that we could pull our troops out and they could have their country back. To show he was serious he released 5,000 Taliban that we had captive and set a date for the US to pull out all the troops. The date came and since Trump's coup didn't work out too well for him and he didn't get to install himself as dictator for life Afghanistan was left up to President Biden who went ahead and pulled the troops out according to plan. Now that the Taliban took over it's Biden fault, even through there was an agreement in place? That's more or less how I understand it. One of those freed is now the presumptive leader of Afghanistan, by the way.

The intelligence reports seemed to indicate they thought that Afghani fighters could hold off the Taliban for 18 months once withdrawal started, giving time for a more orderly evacuation. If that's true, it's not a good look for the intelligence reports. If it's not true, and Biden was given a more dire outlook, the disorderly evacuation is on him.

Too many at the Pentagon refused to actually plan for an orderly withdrawal. President Biden (and trump before him) basically said, screw it, we are leaving anyway we can, which is the right choice.

TrapperGus wrote:

Floyd Robertson wrote:



The intelligence reports seemed to indicate they thought that Afghani fighters could hold off the Taliban for 18 months once withdrawal started, giving time for a more orderly evacuation. If that's true, it's not a good look for the intelligence reports. If it's not true, and Biden was given a more dire outlook, the disorderly evacuation is on him.

Too many at the Pentagon refused to actually plan for an orderly withdrawal. President Biden (and trump before him) basically said, screw it, we are leaving anyway we can, which is the right choice.

I'll never understand the mindset of oppressive regimes. "Oh you want to leave our shithole of a country never to return? How about we just kill you instead."

Jake from State Farm wrote:

TrapperGus wrote:

Too many at the Pentagon refused to actually plan for an orderly withdrawal. President Biden (and trump before him) basically said, screw it, we are leaving anyway we can, which is the right choice.

I'll never understand the mindset of oppressive regimes. "Oh you want to leave our shithole of a country never to return? How about we just kill you instead."

I agree, it doesn't make any sense. All that I can figger is that it is a local power play, they do it to look powerful to their followers.

I'd like to see the previous administrations withdrawal plan. I'm assuming there was one since he thought he was winning re election.

Maybe it's in the same folder as his healthcare plan and vaccine distribution plan.

kingstonlake wrote:I'd like to see the previous administrations withdrawal plan. I'm assuming there was one since he thought he was winning re election.

Maybe it's in the same folder as his healthcare plan and vaccine distribution plan.

It was the best withdrawal plan. You'd be amazed. It was called Operation GTFO. We would have gotten everyone out in 36 hours.

operation GTFO

Hey, lets try to insert ourselves into all of this and get in the fucking way of a massive airlift. Seems clownish.

WASHINGTON (AP) — Two members of Congress flew unannounced into Kabul airport in the middle of the ongoing chaotic evacuation Tuesday, stunning State Department and U.S. military personnel who had to divert resources to provide security and information to the lawmakers, U.S. officials said.

Officials said Rep. Seth Moulton, D-Mass., and Rep. Peter Meijer, R-Mich., flew in on a charter aircraft and were on the ground at the Kabul airport for several hours. Officials said the two men were flying out of Kabul on another charter aircraft, prompting officials to complain that they were taking seats that could have gone to other Americans or Afghans fleeing the country.

https://www.wlns.com/news/michigan/michigan-rep-peter-meijer-flies-to-kabul-amid-chaotic-evacuation/

Turtleneck wrote:Hey, lets try to insert ourselves into all of this and get in the fucking way of a massive airlift. Seems clownish.

WASHINGTON (AP) — Two members of Congress flew unannounced into Kabul airport in the middle of the ongoing chaotic evacuation Tuesday, stunning State Department and U.S. military personnel who had to divert resources to provide security and information to the lawmakers, U.S. officials said.

Officials said Rep. Seth Moulton, D-Mass., and Rep. Peter Meijer, R-Mich., flew in on a charter aircraft and were on the ground at the Kabul airport for several hours. Officials said the two men were flying out of Kabul on another charter aircraft, prompting officials to complain that they were taking seats that could have gone to other Americans or Afghans fleeing the country.

It does seem a bit of a stunt.  Meijer was in Afghanistan in some role before he was elected & seems to be a straight shooter, aka he voted to Impeach and has been critical of the Trump wing.

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4 Marines reported dead. Finish evacs and get the fuck out of that country.

yep.. I suspect the mainstream media and patriotic right is having fun with dead Americans.

should've never been there anyway. This is bu$h's fault. Biden is doing the right thing. Keep evacuating people and get the hell out of senseless, needless wars.

Joe is slow but he rocked that press conference and nailed that last question from the fox dude.

Rocinante wrote:Joe is slow but he rocked that press conference and nailed that last question from the fox dude.

That was Doochi, right? They need to start ignoring him, he's a troll.

InTenSity wrote:

Rocinante wrote:Joe is slow but he rocked that press conference and nailed that last question from the fox dude.

That was Doochi, right? They need to start ignoring him, he's a troll.

I think they need to take as many questions from him as possible since he’s so easy to own.

InTenSity wrote:

Rocinante wrote:Joe is slow but he rocked that press conference and nailed that last question from the fox dude.

That was Doochi, right? They need to start ignoring him, he's a troll.

Biden basically trolls him.  I was watching when he called on him today and Biden said he'd take the last question from the guy who asks the best questions or his (Biden's) favorite questions, or something like that.  And then Biden had to clarify to Doocy that he meant him, because Doocy is clueless

He always seems to joke with Doocy.  I don't think it means Biden likes him, but it shows that Biden isn't going to get angered by him or FoxNews.

The Trumpers blaming Biden on this is pretty funny

It's Bidens fault that Pompeyos surrender.......err peace agreement was wrote on wet toilet paper. Duh.

kingstonlake wrote:I'm assuming these intelligence reports were in place. Who in the fuck told Donnie what he wanted to hear in regards to the Afghans holding out for 18 While he (after winning re election) withdrew troops.

Stephen Miller, the political adviser who never told Trump anything he didn't want to hear.

GRR Spartan wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:I'm assuming these intelligence reports were in place. Who in the fuck told Donnie what he wanted to hear in regards to the Afghans holding out for 18 While he (after winning re election) withdrew troops.

Stephen Miller, the political adviser who never told Trump anything he didn't want to hear.

GRR Spartan wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:I'm assuming these intelligence reports were in place. Who in the fuck told Donnie what he wanted to hear in regards to the Afghans holding out for 18 While he (after winning re election) withdrew troops.

Stephen Miller, the political adviser who never told Trump anything he didn't want to hear.

Miller's beliefs are abhorrent, however, everyone who worked with Trump told him what he wanted to hear.

Funny thing is Trump got the main point right, get the troops out of dangerous places where the US interests are not at stake. Keeping bases in safe places is a good idea, but question why we have troops in hot spots and if there are no compelling reasons then leave. Biden agreed with Trump for Afghanistan and IMO is doing the right thing by leaving.

TrapperGus wrote:

GRR Spartan wrote:

Stephen Miller, the political adviser who never told Trump anything he didn't want to hear.

GRR Spartan wrote:

Stephen Miller, the political adviser who never told Trump anything he didn't want to hear.

Miller's beliefs are abhorrent, however, everyone who worked with Trump told him what he wanted to hear.

Funny thing is Trump got the main point right, get the troops out of dangerous places where the US interests are not at stake. Keeping bases in safe places is a good idea, but question why we have troops in hot spots and if there are no compelling reasons then leave. Biden agreed with Trump for Afghanistan and IMO is doing the right thing by leaving.

To be fair, a lot of people that worked for Trump did not tell him what he wanted to hear. They just didn't last long (McMasters, Bolton, Mattis, Esper, Comey, Sessions, and the list goes on and on).

The vast majority of people agree with leaving Afghanistan. The execution of that withdrawal has not been good, largely due to the rapidity of the Taliban takeover (however one wishes to assign the blame on that).

It's funny, I remember dip shit in a debate whining about telling your enemy what you're going to do. Seems he pretty much advertised the withdrawal giving the Taliban a timeline for chaos. I guess it's just a coincidence they took the country in a shorter time span than my Disney vacation.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

TrapperGus wrote:

Miller's beliefs are abhorrent, however, everyone who worked with Trump told him what he wanted to hear.

Funny thing is Trump got the main point right, get the troops out of dangerous places where the US interests are not at stake. Keeping bases in safe places is a good idea, but question why we have troops in hot spots and if there are no compelling reasons then leave. Biden agreed with Trump for Afghanistan and IMO is doing the right thing by leaving.

To be fair, a lot of people that worked for Trump did not tell him what he wanted to hear. They just didn't last long (McMasters, Bolton, Mattis, Esper, Comey, Sessions, and the list goes on and on).

The vast majority of people agree with leaving Afghanistan. The execution of that withdrawal has not been good, largely due to the rapidity of the Taliban takeover (however one wishes to assign the blame on that).

Most of those told him what he wanted to hear while doing some things he didn't like. Sessions may be an exception.