Joe Biden is crushing it.

Trapper Gus wrote:

PennSpartan wrote:
I’m not dodging anything. I don’t feel the need to tell you here who I worked for. Certainly not with the wackos on this board. I have good coverage. You can, too. You have to choose a good company to work for.

You know that the US has screwed up health care system, way too expensive due to the privatization neocon movement since Reagan, and worse outcomes overall than most first world countries, but since you probably worked in an industry which was unionized and are too chicken shit to admit that you keep doing what you do.

I promise you I was not in a union, lol. I worked in management. Changing the way we pay for healthcare would not change the quality of healthcare. It would be the same doctors, same clinics, same hospitals. The VA is a good example of nationalized healthcare in the U.S. It’s garbage.

PennSpartan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

You know that the US has screwed up health care system, way too expensive due to the privatization neocon movement since Reagan, and worse outcomes overall than most first world countries, but since you probably worked in an industry which was unionized and are too chicken shit to admit that you keep doing what you do.

I promise you I was not in a union, lol. I worked in management. Changing the way we pay for healthcare would not change the quality of healthcare. It would be the same doctors, same clinics, same hospitals. The VA is a good example of nationalized healthcare in the U.S. It’s garbage.

Sounds like you're one of those that buy into the myths about VA healthcare.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/five-myths/five-myths-about-va-health-care/2018/04/13/e5834d1e-3d9a-11e8-974f-aacd97698cef_story.html

Jake from State Farm wrote:

PennSpartan wrote:
I promise you I was not in a union, lol. I worked in management. Changing the way we pay for healthcare would not change the quality of healthcare. It would be the same doctors, same clinics, same hospitals. The VA is a good example of nationalized healthcare in the U.S. It’s garbage.

Sounds like you're one of those that buy into the myths about VA healthcare.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/five-myths/five-myths-about-va-health-care/2018/04/13/e5834d1e-3d9a-11e8-974f-aacd97698cef_story.html

I don’t need to read about it. I’ve seen it first hand. Perhaps in large cities VA Hospitals are respectable, but in the vast majority of the country they’re not. Walking into one is like walking into a 1950’s era facility. Dingy tile walls, outdated decor, and healthcare providers that look like they just got out of battle. It’s not a pretty site. Nobody brags about the cutting edge medicine in the VA.

PennSpartan wrote:

Jake from State Farm wrote:

Sounds like you're one of those that buy into the myths about VA healthcare.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/five-myths/five-myths-about-va-health-care/2018/04/13/e5834d1e-3d9a-11e8-974f-aacd97698cef_story.html

I don’t need to read about it.  I’ve seen it first hand.  Perhaps in large cities VA Hospitals are respectable, but in the vast majority of the country they’re not.  Walking into one is like walking into a 1950’s era facility. Dingy tile walls, outdated decor, and healthcare providers that look like they just got out of battle.  It’s not a pretty site.  Nobody brags about the cutting edge medicine in the VA.

So, kind of like the MSU Clinical Center on Service Road?

Jake from State Farm wrote:

PennSpartan wrote:
I don’t need to read about it.  I’ve seen it first hand.  Perhaps in large cities VA Hospitals are respectable, but in the vast majority of the country they’re not.  Walking into one is like walking into a 1950’s era facility. Dingy tile walls, outdated decor, and healthcare providers that look like they just got out of battle.  It’s not a pretty site.  Nobody brags about the cutting edge medicine in the VA.

So, kind of like the MSU Clinical Center on Service Road?

I don’t know. I haven’t been there in decades. But Olin back in the day comes to mind.

It’s remarkable how often douche Penn reaffirms stereotypes and prejudices. Small minded, easily manipulated, and backwards thinking.

Is there a stereotype he doesn’t believe?

PennSpartan wrote:

Jake from State Farm wrote:

So, kind of like the MSU Clinical Center on Service Road?

I don’t know.  I haven’t been there in decades.  But Olin back in the day comes to mind.  

I was there a couple months ago, trust me, it hasn't changed since the last time you were there. Dingy rooms with outdated tile walls, cabinets that look like they predate that. Poor lighting. No need for signs saying this is institutionalized healthcare. Just a dreary looking place to visit or work and it looks like it's been forgotten as compared to all the new buildings on campus.

Biden still crushing it..

and driving whiny, insecure, racist, misogynistic, anti-America republicans insane while crushing it.

Trapper Gus wrote:Another Republican Talking Point is very wrong, and it is a big one.




https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/09/21/how-bad-is-crime-anyway/

In short: violent crime is down 21 percent over the past two years, down 37 percent over the past ten years, and down 79 percent since 1993.

So why are Republicans able to beat up Democrats about crime in state after state (as recently noted by the New York Times and the Washington Post)? They are lying and getting away with it. Importantly, the mainstream media is not pointing out the lies, and neither are progressive organizations or Democratic officials in safe districts.

They have no problem lying. It is just beyond the pale.

Trapper Gus wrote:Another Republican Talking Point is very wrong, and it is a big one.




https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/09/21/how-bad-is-crime-anyway/

In short: violent crime is down 21 percent over the past two years, down 37 percent over the past ten years, and down 79 percent since 1993.

So why are Republicans able to beat up Democrats about crime in state after state (as recently noted by the New York Times and the Washington Post)? They are lying and getting away with it. Importantly, the mainstream media is not pointing out the lies, and neither are progressive organizations or Democratic officials in safe districts.

So Krugman is pointing out via tweet that the spikes in crime nationally have been in rural/red areas and NYC has the lowest violent numbers in forever...

Also, yes, the 90's peaked crime. (Freakenomics/abortion)

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

RQA wrote:

The health care system is not the sole determinant of "health quality" or life expectancy.

Are you going to answer my question?

Oh I don’t read your posts because they’re basically drivel. What was your question?

Interesting that you quote my posts and then claim not to read them!

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Do you get what you pay for and what your doctor thinks you need or do you get what a for profit insurance company is willing to pay for

Generally speaking, for the vast vast majority of situations, you will receive the treatment your doctor recommends.

You seem to want to claim that insurance companies diagnose and then mandate subpar treatment. They don't.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

So anyway, your question is why does an exceedingly rich person who has unlimited resources choose to seek care here when he can fly all over the country, only go to the absolute best specialists, and has access to levels of care that very few in the country do because only so many people get to work with the absolute best the system has to offer and most just have to deal with whoever happens to be at their local hospital that day. Why does that guy use medical care in the US?

Did I answer your question sufficiently enough or do you need me to embarrass your terrible question further?

Good job Boss!   Correct, Mick Jagger, being an ultrarich guy, could have received his needed AVR anywhere in the world (Perhaps the NHS would have even paid for it, but I vaguely remember that the Stones left the UK for tax reasons, or maybe that was the Beatles?  Maybe the Boomer posters around here know.  Bob?  Gus?  Penn?) but he came to the US for it.

So the follow-up question is obviously (as you posted in your rambling retort):

Why did Mick Jagger have his AVR in the US?

Back to full time posting for the Russian Quisling Agent.

Vladimir Putin likes him so much he’s not being called to serve in Ukraine.

I’m not certain an Uber rich non American European citizen paying his way to the front of the line is the checkmate we think it is when comparing healthcare systems. If I remember correctly the procedure was done when the were on a US tour. Are we certain this wasn’t just a locality and timing thing? If they were on a European tour would it have been done there? Also it’s not an uncommon surgery. Fairly non invasive. Pretty sure it’s done all over the world on the regular.

RQA wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Do you get what you pay for and what your doctor thinks you need or do you get what a for profit insurance company is willing to pay for

Generally speaking, for the vast vast majority of situations, you will receive the treatment your doctor recommends.

You seem to want to claim that insurance companies diagnose and then mandate subpar treatment. They don't.

Are you fucking kidding me?

THIS YEAR... My kid had a cyst pressing on his spine. Doctors knew it was abnormally fucked up last October from Xrays (Insurance oked.) The kid could hardly walk. Insurance wouldn't pay for an MRI until he had physical therapy for 6 weeks (when he could barely walk). Then he had to bounce between a pain specialist , the primary care guy and a spine doc getting all of them to sign off prior to Insurance allowing him to see the specialist SIX FUCKING MONTHS LATER who eventually fixed him. (um doc, yes I spent more time in aa then a human should be forced to this year)... AND then AT UofM with the worlds highest ranked pediatric neurosurgery department calling the shots, multiple docs in the surgery, the fucking insurance company did not approve an overnight stay... for spinal surgery. Like it was a fucking outpatient treatment or something.
US Health care system SUCKS ASS. And fuck INSURANCE companies.

An old but good reference of European experiences with healthcare.

Seriously. Ask anyone who has ever worked in healthcare what they think of dealing with insurance companies. It is a deeply frustrating experience and a terrible way to get patients the care that their doctors recommend.

"Oh, your doctor thinks this prescription medication is the best way to treat your condition? Well, the doctor we have on our payroll, whom you've never met and who is sitting in an office 6 states away counting his money, says that this other medication is better, so you need to try that for 6 months and demonstrate that it is ineffective before we will cover the medication your doctor, who actually knows and has seen you, recommends." All the time with this shit.

My insurance wouldn't pay for the higher priced medication I was prescribed and I ended up in hospital for eleven days. I think the bill was over $100,000. For some reason the prescription got approved shortly thereafter.

AvgMSUJoe wrote:

RQA wrote:

Generally speaking, for the vast vast majority of situations, you will receive the treatment your doctor recommends.  

You seem to want to claim that insurance companies diagnose and then mandate subpar treatment.   They don't.  

Are you fucking kidding me?

THIS YEAR... My kid had a cyst pressing on his spine. Doctors knew it was abnormally fucked up last October from Xrays (Insurance oked.) The kid could hardly walk. Insurance wouldn't pay for an MRI until he had physical therapy for 6 weeks (when he could barely walk). Then he had to bounce between a pain specialist , the primary care guy and a spine doc getting all of them to sign off prior to Insurance allowing him to see the specialist SIX FUCKING MONTHS LATER who eventually fixed him. (um doc, yes I spent more time in aa then a human should be forced to this year)... AND then AT UofM with the worlds highest ranked pediatric neurosurgery department calling the shots, multiple docs in the surgery, the fucking insurance company did not approve an overnight stay... for spinal surgery. Like it was a fucking outpatient treatment or something.
US Health care system SUCKS ASS. And fuck INSURANCE companies.

Joe, I am sorry that your child had this health problem but am also glad to hear that it was remedied within 6 months and hopefully all continues to be well.

Difficult to comment without knowing specific details of the diagnosis and the various doctor's recommendations (and this certainly isn't the place for that).   Your child did see various specialists ("spine doc" (ortho surgeon, neurosurgeon, PM&R).   Was surgery the initial advice or was a course of nonoperative therapy advised with surgery being reserved for failure of nonoperative treatment.   At what point did a specialist order an MRI?  Keep in mind that the insurance company can't stop anyone from getting one.   Also keep in mind that the rules around hospital stays are largely derived from government regulation.

Your child received best in world health care and despite insurance bureaucrats a complicated problem was resolved within 6 months.

Don't think exchanging insurance bureaucrats  for government ones will improve things.

I have BC/BS and have never been denied treatment for anything. Ever. I never even hear from the insurance until after the treatment or procedure is done. I have a MRI coming up in a couple of weeks and there were no questions asked. I have to think some of these denials are due to the company or plan people have, or maybe the state you live in.

I can tell you all of the detail... and Yes, most of it was us jumping through hoops just to get to the next doctor to get the next referral to eventually get to the specialist.

They denied an MRI until after 6 weeks of physical therapy. The primary care guy had to refer to a pain guy, who had to refer to physical therapy. Once that was done (months later) the pain guy was able to refer to the neurospecalist who was finally able to get an mri. Once they got that done and saw the detail, both had the pain and neuro guy had to refer to get him to um. And then they denied the overnight stay.

I currently am on a medication that the insurance requires I be on prior to them paying for what the doc actually wants me on. So yes, insurance companies diagnose and require subpar treatment. I just hope this doesn't fuck up my liver prior to me being able to take the correct med.

AvgMSUJoe wrote:

RQA wrote:

Generally speaking, for the vast vast majority of situations, you will receive the treatment your doctor recommends.

You seem to want to claim that insurance companies diagnose and then mandate subpar treatment. They don't.

Are you fucking kidding me?

THIS YEAR... My kid had a cyst pressing on his spine. Doctors knew it was abnormally fucked up last October from Xrays (Insurance oked.) The kid could hardly walk. Insurance wouldn't pay for an MRI until he had physical therapy for 6 weeks (when he could barely walk). Then he had to bounce between a pain specialist , the primary care guy and a spine doc getting all of them to sign off prior to Insurance allowing him to see the specialist SIX FUCKING MONTHS LATER who eventually fixed him. (um doc, yes I spent more time in aa then a human should be forced to this year)... AND then AT UofM with the worlds highest ranked pediatric neurosurgery department calling the shots, multiple docs in the surgery, the fucking insurance company did not approve an overnight stay... for spinal surgery. Like it was a fucking outpatient treatment or something.
US Health care system SUCKS ASS. And fuck INSURANCE companies.

An old but good reference of European experiences with healthcare.

Another good example of this is Josh Thornhill's son Marcus. He was diagnosed with brain cancer at age 5. Josh and Katie fought the insurance companies every step of the way of his treatment. And nearly went broke trying to keep their son alive.

Marcus died at age 7.

(Y'all decent Americans aren't attempting to have a rational conversation with a racist, bigoted, MAGA christian, misogynistic election-denier, are you?)

duffy munn wrote:

AvgMSUJoe wrote:

Are you fucking kidding me?

THIS YEAR... My kid had a cyst pressing on his spine. Doctors knew it was abnormally fucked up last October from Xrays (Insurance oked.) The kid could hardly walk. Insurance wouldn't pay for an MRI until he had physical therapy for 6 weeks (when he could barely walk). Then he had to bounce between a pain specialist , the primary care guy and a spine doc getting all of them to sign off prior to Insurance allowing him to see the specialist SIX FUCKING MONTHS LATER who eventually fixed him. (um doc, yes I spent more time in aa then a human should be forced to this year)... AND then AT UofM with the worlds highest ranked pediatric neurosurgery department calling the shots, multiple docs in the surgery, the fucking insurance company did not approve an overnight stay... for spinal surgery. Like it was a fucking outpatient treatment or something.
US Health care system SUCKS ASS. And fuck INSURANCE companies.

An old but good reference of European experiences with healthcare.

Another good example of this is Josh Thornhill's son Marcus. He was diagnosed with brain cancer at age 5. Josh and Katie fought the insurance companies every step of the way of his treatment. And nearly went broke trying to keep their son alive.

Marcus died at age 7.

And there are plenty of examples of people who got the treatment they needed. My wife died of cancer. Surgery and treatment went on for years. In the end, she didn’t survive. But it wasn’t for a lack of trying. And the insurance company covered every treatment the doctor ordered.

There’s no reason that everyone shouldn’t get that experience dude. That’s the whole point. It doesn’t matter that you did- a lot of people don’t.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:There’s no reason that everyone shouldn’t get that experience dude. That’s the whole point. It doesn’t matter that you did- a lot of people don’t.

I guess my point is it’s available. If I can get it, so can others.

PennSpartan wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:There’s no reason that everyone shouldn’t get that experience dude. That’s the whole point. It doesn’t matter that you did- a lot of people don’t.

I guess my point is it’s available. If I can get it, so can others.

How? How are we to even know before it’s too late? If I get cancer tomorrow, will my oncologist have to fight with my health insurance company to get the treatment they want me to get? I have no idea. They don’t tell you that in the pamphlet when you sign up for your employer sponsored health insurance. If the one I have now isn’t good enough, which company do I have to work for to have good enough health insurance to cover it? Will they tell me in advance if the insurance company they use will fight with my oncologist? And this is all without me actually having cancer right now. Once I need those treatments, and I find out my insurance isn’t good enough, do I now have to go job hunting with going through that?

Alternatively, we can abandon this insane system of employer sponsored health insurance and come up with something better that works for everyone

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

PennSpartan wrote:
I guess my point is it’s available. If I can get it, so can others.

How? How are we to even know before it’s too late? If I get cancer tomorrow, will my oncologist have to fight with my health insurance company to get the treatment they want me to get? I have no idea. They don’t tell you that in the pamphlet when you sign up for your employer sponsored health insurance. If the one I have now isn’t good enough, which company do I have to work for to have good enough health insurance to cover it? Will they tell me in advance if the insurance company they use will fight with my oncologist? And this is all without me actually having cancer right now. Once I need those treatments, and I find out my insurance isn’t good enough, do I now have to go job hunting with going through that?

Alternatively, we can abandon this insane system of employer sponsored health insurance and come up with something better that works for everyone

Like I said before, I have BC/BS. Mine has been great. Yes my employer provided a good amount toward the policy, but I pay a handsome amount too. You only get one life. Cars and houses can be replaced. Lives can’t. Spend as much as possible to get great healthcare insurance. I honestly don’t know anything about other carriers because BC/BS is all I have had.

Bcbs is a ppo with high co-pays (usually)... yes it's great. Most can't afford it anymore.
Many/most employers only offer a hmo. Hmo dictates your care.

Blue care network is the hmo option from blue cross.

AvgMSUJoe wrote:Bcbs is a ppo with high co-pays (usually)... yes it's great. Most can't afford it anymore.
Many/most employers only offer a hmo. Hmo dictates your care.

Blue care network is the hmo option from blue cross.

I’m not trying to be a dick, but you can’t afford not to get the best healthcare coverage available. I know from experience. It has to be your top priority.

PennSpartan wrote:

duffy munn wrote:

Another good example of this is Josh Thornhill's son Marcus. He was diagnosed with brain cancer at age 5. Josh and Katie fought the insurance companies every step of the way of his treatment. And nearly went broke trying to keep their son alive.

Marcus died at age 7.

And there are plenty of examples of people who got the treatment they needed. My wife died of cancer. Surgery and treatment went on for years. In the end, she didn’t survive. But it wasn’t for a lack of trying. And the insurance company covered every treatment the doctor ordered.

Very sorry about your wife and you're partially correct. And fortunate you had great insurance. Because even will good coverage the bills can be staggering. My wife was in a bad car accident 5 years ago, lucky to survive. She was in the hospital for 9 days and had 3 surgeries. Very lucky auto insurance paid every dime of the 295k bills. Imagine having 80/20 coverage for that.

PennSpartan wrote:

AvgMSUJoe wrote:Bcbs is a ppo with high co-pays (usually)... yes it's great. Most can't afford it anymore.
Many/most employers only offer a hmo. Hmo dictates your care.

Blue care network is the hmo option from blue cross.

I’m not trying to be a dick, but you can’t afford not to get the best healthcare coverage available. I know from experience. It has to be your top priority.

Wow. What if some peoples top priority are a roof over their heads and food on the table? Well fuck them I guess.

AvgMSUJoe wrote:

RQA wrote:

Generally speaking, for the vast vast majority of situations, you will receive the treatment your doctor recommends.

You seem to want to claim that insurance companies diagnose and then mandate subpar treatment. They don't.

Are you fucking kidding me?

THIS YEAR... My kid had a cyst pressing on his spine. Doctors knew it was abnormally fucked up last October from Xrays (Insurance oked.) The kid could hardly walk. Insurance wouldn't pay for an MRI until he had physical therapy for 6 weeks (when he could barely walk). Then he had to bounce between a pain specialist , the primary care guy and a spine doc getting all of them to sign off prior to Insurance allowing him to see the specialist SIX FUCKING MONTHS LATER who eventually fixed him. (um doc, yes I spent more time in aa then a human should be forced to this year)... AND then AT UofM with the worlds highest ranked pediatric neurosurgery department calling the shots, multiple docs in the surgery, the fucking insurance company did not approve an overnight stay... for spinal surgery. Like it was a fucking outpatient treatment or something.
US Health care system SUCKS ASS. And fuck INSURANCE companies.

An old but good reference of European experiences with healthcare.

Insurance is a racket. Pay for health insurance plus a ridiculous deductible then after all that expense we might start covering something.

RQA wrote:

AvgMSUJoe wrote:

Are you fucking kidding me?

THIS YEAR... My kid had a cyst pressing on his spine. Doctors knew it was abnormally fucked up last October from Xrays (Insurance oked.) The kid could hardly walk. Insurance wouldn't pay for an MRI until he had physical therapy for 6 weeks (when he could barely walk). Then he had to bounce between a pain specialist , the primary care guy and a spine doc getting all of them to sign off prior to Insurance allowing him to see the specialist SIX FUCKING MONTHS LATER who eventually fixed him. (um doc, yes I spent more time in aa then a human should be forced to this year)... AND then AT UofM with the worlds highest ranked pediatric neurosurgery department calling the shots, multiple docs in the surgery, the fucking insurance company did not approve an overnight stay... for spinal surgery. Like it was a fucking outpatient treatment or something.
US Health care system SUCKS ASS. And fuck INSURANCE companies.

Joe, I am sorry that your child had this health problem but am also glad to hear that it was remedied within 6 months and hopefully all continues to be well.

Difficult to comment without knowing specific details of the diagnosis and the various doctor's recommendations (and this certainly isn't the place for that).   Your child did see various specialists ("spine doc" (ortho surgeon, neurosurgeon, PM&R).   Was surgery the initial advice or was a course of nonoperative therapy advised with surgery being reserved for failure of nonoperative treatment.   At what point did a specialist order an MRI?  Keep in mind that the insurance company can't stop anyone from getting one.   Also keep in mind that the rules around hospital stays are largely derived from government regulation.

Your child received best in world health care and despite insurance bureaucrats a complicated problem was resolved within 6 months.

Don't think exchanging insurance bureaucrats  for government ones will improve things.

Exchanging a for-profit corporation for a government agency would benefit healthcare consumers. Who knows that? The insurance corporations. That's why they always fight against a public option. They know the government will give consumers a much better value.

duffy munn wrote:

PennSpartan wrote:
I’m not trying to be a dick, but you can’t afford not to get the best healthcare coverage available. I know from experience. It has to be your top priority.

Wow. What if some peoples top priority are a roof over their heads and food on the table? Well fuck them I guess.

Every day I think what else could have been done to save my wife. But I would feel worse if I knew I hadn’t paid for the best insurance possible, and hadn’t gotten the best treatment available. Without your life that roof or food is pointless.

Pervis Muldoon wrote:

RQA wrote:

Joe, I am sorry that your child had this health problem but am also glad to hear that it was remedied within 6 months and hopefully all continues to be well.

Difficult to comment without knowing specific details of the diagnosis and the various doctor's recommendations (and this certainly isn't the place for that).   Your child did see various specialists ("spine doc" (ortho surgeon, neurosurgeon, PM&R).   Was surgery the initial advice or was a course of nonoperative therapy advised with surgery being reserved for failure of nonoperative treatment.   At what point did a specialist order an MRI?  Keep in mind that the insurance company can't stop anyone from getting one.   Also keep in mind that the rules around hospital stays are largely derived from government regulation.

Your child received best in world health care and despite insurance bureaucrats a complicated problem was resolved within 6 months.

Don't think exchanging insurance bureaucrats  for government ones will improve things.

Exchanging a for-profit corporation for a government agency would benefit healthcare consumers. Who knows that? The insurance corporations. That's why they always fight against a public option. They know the government will give consumers a much better value.

We’re still going to be paying for healthcare if we have Medicare for All, Pervis.  It’s just going to be through our taxes.  And the current Medicare also has a premium that you pay quarterly.  Nothing is actually free.  I have no idea how we could get MFA done in this political climate.  You’re going to need 60 Senators.  Lots of people are going to lose their jobs.  And this nonsense that Bernie promotes that the top 1% will pay for it is crazy.  Everyone needs to pay if everyone is going to benefit.

PennSpartan wrote: Everyone needs to pay if everyone is going to benefit.

You mean like social security and Medicare?

Pretty sure Bernie sees this and knows taxes on the vast amounts or wealth the top .01 have accrude could pay for health care, social programs PLUS infrastructure, etc.