Re: Michigan state vs Indiana Game Thread

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2022-11-19, 18:57

aualum06 wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Nah, Minnesota was way lower. We’ve already accepted what we are at this point rather than having hope like we did before that game.

I meant the season as a whole in the rucker era

Oh, yeah. I think it will be tbh.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2022-11-19, 19:22

What happened to tre Mosley? Like, I know I’ve seen his name around, so I don’t think he’s hurt. But I can’t think of anything he’s done all year.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-11-19, 20:39

While I am unhappy with this year, I have to analyze the situation.

Tucker walked in the door with Dantonio's piss poor last class, plue mediocre recuiting for three years before that.

Year one of his own recuiting was blocked by covid.

Year two of his recuiting are freshman this year.

Still, he has pulled some stars out of the portal, enought for an 11-2 season.

Sorry, but until "his guys" are at least three years in, 2024, he is working with Dantonio's guys plus what he can pick up in the portal.

This team lack heart, but 3/5 of them are Dantonio's guys.

by **MiamiSpartan** 2022-11-19, 21:46

Trapper Gus wrote:While I am unhappy with this year, I have to analyze the situation.

Tucker walked in the door with Dantonio's piss poor last class, plue mediocre recuiting for three years before that.

Year one of his own recuiting was blocked by covid.

Year two of his recuiting are freshman this year.

Still, he has pulled some stars out of the portal, enought for an 11-2 season.

Sorry, but until "his guys" are at least three years in, 2024, he is working with Dantonio's guys plus what he can pick up in the portal.

This team lack heart, but 3/5 of them are Dantonio's guys.

That wasn't even his recruiting class. He was hired after national signing day.

And perhaps even more significant was that Mel missed out on Spring football his first year, and fall practice was limited and start/stop. This is effectively year 2. Maybe 2.5.

I also think that because of the timing of his hiring, he was very limited in who he could pick as his assistants. I've never felt that they were all as high on his list of options as he makes out.

He's had a chance to make changes if those weren't the guys he wanted. I suppose it is tough to fire someone after the covid year (and the limited recruiting/practice that I mentioned), and it is difficult to fire people after an 11-2 NY6 Bowl winning season, so it iant a huge surprise that there hasn't been more turnover. But this off-season will be interesting as far as assistants go.

by **NigelUno** 2022-11-19, 22:15

So, Thorne was getting calls from the sideline today...

"With Payton getting the call from the sideline, that was by design. I’m not sure if I really want to go into why. It’s probably not a good idea for me to go into why we did that, but that was intentional on our part. That was the game plan going in. That’s not something that we normally do." - Tucker

What does that mean? Johnson wasn't calling plays from the press box, and somebody else was from the sideline?

by **MiamiSpartan** 2022-11-19, 22:58

NigelUno wrote:So, Thorne was getting calls from the sideline today...

"With Payton getting the call from the sideline, that was by design. I’m not sure if I really want to go into why. It’s probably not a good idea for me to go into why we did that, but that was intentional on our part. That was the game plan going in. That’s not something that we normally do." - Tucker

What does that mean? Johnson wasn't calling plays from the press box, and somebody else was from the sideline?

Thorne always gets the call from the sideline (sideline staff relaying Johnson's call), so I dont think he would phrase it like that if it was that someone different was calling the plays.

On TV, I did notice Thorne running back and forth to the sideline between plays, so I think that's what Tuck is referring to, that he was getting the calls verbally straight from the sideline, as opposed to a sub bringing the play in or signals from the sideline.

by **Nordic** 2022-11-20, 00:15

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
Nordic wrote:

Travis

Don’t be rude I did my best :(

4-1 on the season with this sack of shit team is something I will proudly remember for years into the future. But I will step aside and let the new generation lead on game threads.

You don't start a game thread with fun facts about the other team. That's turtleneck's job.

by **tGreenWay** 2022-11-20, 00:25

Nordic wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Don’t be rude I did my best :(

4-1 on the season with this sack of shit team is something I will proudly remember for years into the future. But I will step aside and let the new generation lead on game threads.

You don't start a game thread with fun facts about the other team. That's turtleneck's job.

Except very little of what Turtleneck posts could ever qualify as fun.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2022-11-20, 00:37

Nordic wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Don’t be rude I did my best :(

4-1 on the season with this sack of shit team is something I will proudly remember for years into the future. But I will step aside and let the new generation lead on game threads.

You don't start a game thread with fun facts about the other team. That's turtleneck's job.

So, just as a little explanation for the thought process here- last week I started it with a bit of a Tony soprano joke for Rutgers. This week it was like well what the fuck is notable about Indiana? Nothing. Nothing is. So I went searching for who some alums are. Came across Fogle and Jones. And there we were.

Anyway the spittoon is gone and it’s all my fault. I deserve to be punished like a bad boy.

by AvgMSUJoe 2022-11-20, 07:49

Well, since we don't have a spitoon lying around... Travis is the guy that has to clean up the coke bottles filled with Kodiak smelling spit around this joint.

by **DWags** 2022-11-20, 08:54

Who do you all blame for not centering the ball at end of regulation. To me that’s all Tucker. If you hand the ball off to a running back he’s going to do running back things. Just have Thorne take a snap and move over.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-11-20, 09:06

DWags wrote:Who do you all blame for not centering the ball at end of regulation. To me that’s all Tucker. If you hand the ball off to a running back he’s going to do running back things. Just have Thorne take a snap and move over.

It isn't clear with the past performance of the kicking team, that it would have made any difference.

by **duffy munn** 2022-11-20, 09:11

DWags wrote:Who do you all blame for not centering the ball at end of regulation. To me that’s all Tucker. If you hand the ball off to a running back he’s going to do running back things. Just have Thorne take a snap and move over.

No reason to hand the ball off. 100% on Tucker. I'm really starting to think he may be over his head. When he threw the ball late against Illinois when they had no time outs my head almost exploded. The Illini then had a chance to win the fucking game.

This kinda shit has to change.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2022-11-20, 09:14

DWags wrote:Who do you all blame for not centering the ball at end of regulation. To me that’s all Tucker. If you hand the ball off to a running back he’s going to do running back things. Just have Thorne take a snap and move over.

No, running back doesn’t have to do running back things. If Thorne does it, kicker misses anyway, then you’re mad that he wasn’t playing for the touchdown. You’re just putting everything on Tucker no matter what happens.

by Pervis Muldoon 2022-11-20, 09:17

NigelUno wrote:So, Thorne was getting calls from the sideline today...

"With Payton getting the call from the sideline, that was by design. I’m not sure if I really want to go into why. It’s probably not a good idea for me to go into why we did that, but that was intentional on our part. That was the game plan going in. That’s not something that we normally do." - Tucker

What does that mean? Johnson wasn't calling plays from the press box, and somebody else was from the sideline?

Saying it wasn't a good idea to go into why makes me think there was a suspicion about Indiana stealing signals.

by **duffy munn** 2022-11-20, 09:21

Anyone else notice Thorne running to the sidelines to get play calls? WTF is that? Tucker said something about they "had to" after the game. Implying IU was picking up signals. Which in itself is inexcusable but what's worse is not having a back up plan. Hell, Thorne had to be exhausted.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2022-11-20, 09:24

duffy munn wrote:Anyone else notice Thorne running to the sidelines to get play calls? WTF is that? Tucker said something about they "had to" after the game. Implying IU was picking up signals. Which in itself is inexcusable but what's worse is not having a back up plan. Hell, Thorne had to be exhausted.

Saying it wasn't a good idea to go into why makes me think there was a suspicion about Indiana stealing signals.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-11-20, 09:25

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
DWags wrote:Who do you all blame for not centering the ball at end of regulation. To me that’s all Tucker. If you hand the ball off to a running back he’s going to do running back things. Just have Thorne take a snap and move over.

No, running back doesn’t have to do running back things. If Thorne does it, kicker misses anyway, then you’re mad that he wasn’t playing for the touchdown. You’re just putting everything on Tucker no matter what happens.

At some level Tucker has responsibility, however, having a kicker who cannot consistently kick the ball through the uprights is a recruiting issue and or kicking team coaching issue, not a decision about "centering the ball" issue.

by **duffy munn** 2022-11-20, 09:26

Pervis Muldoon wrote:
NigelUno wrote:So, Thorne was getting calls from the sideline today...

"With Payton getting the call from the sideline, that was by design. I’m not sure if I really want to go into why. It’s probably not a good idea for me to go into why we did that, but that was intentional on our part. That was the game plan going in. That’s not something that we normally do." - Tucker

What does that mean? Johnson wasn't calling plays from the press box, and somebody else was from the sideline?

Saying it wasn't a good idea to go into why makes me think there was a suspicion about Indiana stealing signals.

I'm late to this party. What's the rule on stealing signals? I mean if they did it through a head set hack or something electronic that's one thing. If they just did with their eyes from across the field that's on our staff not theirs.

Finally, if what they did is illegal and Tuck said nothing when asked about another bad pattern is developing

by Pervis Muldoon 2022-11-20, 09:42

duffy munn wrote:
Pervis Muldoon wrote:

Saying it wasn't a good idea to go into why makes me think there was a suspicion about Indiana stealing signals.

I'm late to this party. What's the rule on stealing signals? I mean if they did it through a head set hack or something electronic that's one thing. If they just did with their eyes from across the field that's on our staff not theirs.

Finally, if what they did is illegal and Tuck said nothing when asked about another bad pattern is developing

It's not illegal, and it's fairly common. Clemson's opponents have said that's one part of how Dabo built a successful program. I'd be interested to know if it was an in-game adjustment or if they went in knowing they wouldn't be able to signal.

by **Nordic** 2022-11-20, 09:45

DWags wrote:Who do you all blame for not centering the ball at end of regulation. To me that’s all Tucker. If you hand the ball off to a running back he’s going to do running back things. Just have Thorne take a snap and move over.

Collins fucked up. But ultimate accountability is on the OC or Tucker. The message needed to be clear to Collins (you don't cut back).

You can also blame the play call (OC). You could have Thorne shuffle over and center it, like you said. But that assumes you have a reliable kicker. Which we do not. I don't have a big issue with giving the ball to Collins as there is a chance Indiana just lets him score a TD to get the ball back. But again, you better make damn sure Collins knows what he is doing. Collins had a good game, I think he tried to go hero ball on that play.

by **Nordic** 2022-11-20, 09:45

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
duffy munn wrote:Anyone else notice Thorne running to the sidelines to get play calls? WTF is that? Tucker said something about they "had to" after the game. Implying IU was picking up signals. Which in itself is inexcusable but what's worse is not having a back up plan. Hell, Thorne had to be exhausted.

Saying it wasn't a good idea to go into why makes me think there was a suspicion about Indiana stealing signals.

that would be my interpretation as well

by **duffy munn** 2022-11-20, 09:47

Pervis Muldoon wrote:
duffy munn wrote:

I'm late to this party. What's the rule on stealing signals? I mean if they did it through a head set hack or something electronic that's one thing. If they just did with their eyes from across the field that's on our staff not theirs.

Finally, if what they did is illegal and Tuck said nothing when asked about another bad pattern is developing

It's not illegal, and it's fairly common. Clemson's opponents have said that's one part of how Dabo built a successful program. I'd be interested to know if it was an in-game adjustment or if they went in knowing they wouldn't be able to signal.

Wow. Outcoached by Tom Allen.

by **Nordic** 2022-11-20, 09:49

Pervis Muldoon wrote:
Saying it wasn't a good idea to go into why makes me think there was a suspicion about Indiana stealing signals.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
Saying it wasn't a good idea to go into why makes me think there was a suspicion about Indiana stealing signals.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-11-20, 09:49

Nordic wrote:
DWags wrote:Who do you all blame for not centering the ball at end of regulation. To me that’s all Tucker. If you hand the ball off to a running back he’s going to do running back things. Just have Thorne take a snap and move over.

Collins fucked up. But ultimate accountability is on the OC or Tucker. The message needed to be clear to Collins (you don't cut back).

You can also blame the play call (OC). You could have Thorne shuffle over and center it, like you said. But that assumes you have a reliable kicker. Which we do not. I don't have a big issue with giving the ball to Collins as there is a chance Indiana just lets him score a TD to get the ball back. But again, you better make damn sure Collins knows what he is doing. Collins had a good game, I think he tried to go hero ball on that play.

This discussion after all the "don't play for a field goal" comments. As Nodic said, Collins, and the MSU coaching staff, were trying to score a touchdown, not set up for a field goal.

by **MiamiSpartan** 2022-11-20, 10:01

I think we should expect the kicker to get the ball with 10 yards of the uprights on a 20 yard kick, regardless of whether the ball is on the hash marks or in the center. I mean, it wasn't remotely close.

by Pervis Muldoon 2022-11-20, 10:13

duffy munn wrote:
Pervis Muldoon wrote:

It's not illegal, and it's fairly common. Clemson's opponents have said that's one part of how Dabo built a successful program. I'd be interested to know if it was an in-game adjustment or if they went in knowing they wouldn't be able to signal.

Wow. Outcoached by Tom Allen.

I'd give Mel a point for preventing them from stealing signals; it would be taking one of your opponent's strengths away.

I remember once when Dantonio seemed to get beat by signal-stealing. MSU was undefeated going into Lincoln in 2011, and were set to roll over a Husker defense that has been getting roasted that season. But Nebraska somehow destroyed the Spartan offense of Cousins, Bell, Baker, Cunningham and Martin, winning 24-3. After the game, Husker defenders commented that they knew what the Spartans would do before they did it.

The gamesmanship between Pelini and Dantonio was fun. Dantonio's defense totally screwed the Huskers by clapping before the snap in 2014 after seeing that Nebraska's QB clapped for the snap on the road. That was against the rules, but it didn't get called in that game.

by AvgMSUJoe 2022-11-20, 10:30

So everyone remember when MSU was just off an 11 win season and locked in their golden boy coach with a huge contract because the SEC came sniffing around? Yeah, good times.

So, who's the next golden boy? (This is what a Nebraska fan must feel like...)

by **duffy munn** 2022-11-20, 11:02

Pervis Muldoon wrote:
duffy munn wrote:

Wow. Outcoached by Tom Allen.

I'd give Mel a point for preventing them from stealing signals; it would be taking one of your opponent's strengths away.

I remember once when Dantonio seemed to get beat by signal-stealing. MSU was undefeated going into Lincoln in 2011, and were set to roll over a Husker defense that has been getting roasted that season. But Nebraska somehow destroyed the Spartan offense of Cousins, Bell, Baker, Cunningham and Martin, winning 24-3. After the game, Husker defenders commented that they knew what the Spartans would do before they did it.

The gamesmanship between Pelini and Dantonio was fun. Dantonio's defense totally screwed the Huskers by clapping before the snap in 2014 after seeing that Nebraska's QB clapped for the snap on the road. That was against the rules, but it didn't get called in that game.

Either change the signals or run the plays in with subs ( running back or tight end). Making your QB run a marathon between plays is dumb.

by **NigelUno** 2022-11-20, 11:19

Pervis Muldoon wrote:
NigelUno wrote:So, Thorne was getting calls from the sideline today...

"With Payton getting the call from the sideline, that was by design. I’m not sure if I really want to go into why. It’s probably not a good idea for me to go into why we did that, but that was intentional on our part. That was the game plan going in. That’s not something that we normally do." - Tucker

What does that mean? Johnson wasn't calling plays from the press box, and somebody else was from the sideline?

Saying it wasn't a good idea to go into why makes me think there was a suspicion about Indiana stealing signals.

I haven't paid enough attention to notice if we have 2 or 3 (or just 1) guy giving signs.

by **DWags** 2022-11-20, 11:41

duffy munn wrote:
Pervis Muldoon wrote:

Saying it wasn't a good idea to go into why makes me think there was a suspicion about Indiana stealing signals.

I'm late to this party. What's the rule on stealing signals? I mean if they did it through a head set hack or something electronic that's one thing. If they just did with their eyes from across the field that's on our staff not theirs.

Finally, if what they did is illegal and Tuck said nothing when asked about another bad pattern is developing

One advantage of home field is you have your back to the press box. You absolutely bet there are eyes in the PB watching the away teams sideline. 100%. If IU was picking up signs in real time they were doing it from ground level across the field. If we’ve been that obvious, shame on us.

by **DWags** 2022-11-20, 11:43

duffy munn wrote:
Pervis Muldoon wrote:

It's not illegal, and it's fairly common. Clemson's opponents have said that's one part of how Dabo built a successful program. I'd be interested to know if it was an in-game adjustment or if they went in knowing they wouldn't be able to signal.

Wow. Outcoached by Tom Allen.

Reading this made me laugh out loud. Btw it’s true.

by **DWags** 2022-11-20, 11:46

MiamiSpartan wrote:I think we should expect the kicker to get the ball with 10 yards of the uprights on a 20 yard kick, regardless of whether the ball is on the hash marks or in the center. I mean, it wasn't remotely close.

Agree, but if you’re looking at this seasons analytics, maybe not so much.

by **NigelUno** 2022-11-20, 11:56

duffy munn wrote:
Pervis Muldoon wrote:

It's not illegal, and it's fairly common. Clemson's opponents have said that's one part of how Dabo built a successful program. I'd be interested to know if it was an in-game adjustment or if they went in knowing they wouldn't be able to signal.

Wow. Outcoached by Tom Allen.

I wonder if he jumps around all excited when he gets a hole in one.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-11-20, 12:45

DWags wrote:
duffy munn wrote:

I'm late to this party. What's the rule on stealing signals? I mean if they did it through a head set hack or something electronic that's one thing. If they just did with their eyes from across the field that's on our staff not theirs.

Finally, if what they did is illegal and Tuck said nothing when asked about another bad pattern is developing

One advantage of home field is you have your back to the press box. You absolutely bet there are eyes in the PB watching the away teams sideline. 100%. If IU was picking up signs in real time they were doing it from ground level across the field. If we’ve been that obvious, shame on us.

Pretty sure both teams have people in the pressbox.

by **DWags** 2022-11-20, 13:16

Trapper Gus wrote:
DWags wrote:

One advantage of home field is you have your back to the press box. You absolutely bet there are eyes in the PB watching the away teams sideline. 100%. If IU was picking up signs in real time they were doing it from ground level across the field. If we’ve been that obvious, shame on us.

Pretty sure both teams have people in the pressbox.

And with the home team having their back to it, you can’t pick up signals in real time. With visiting team facing it, a good pair of binoculars gives you real time views.

by **duffy munn** 2022-11-20, 14:47

DWags wrote:
duffy munn wrote:

Wow. Outcoached by Tom Allen.

Reading this made me laugh out loud. Btw it’s true.

Serious question Wags. what should tucker have done if he indeed knew they were stealing signals? It seems to me he had better options that making Thorne go to the sidelines.

by **DWags** 2022-11-20, 14:52

duffy munn wrote:
DWags wrote:

Reading this made me laugh out loud. Btw it’s true.

Serious question Wags. what should tucker have done if he indeed knew they were stealing signals? It seems to me he had better options that making Thorne go to the sidelines.

Run guys in. Could be anyone. From a tight end to receiver to a lineman. But who knows with injuries.

by Pervis Muldoon 2022-11-20, 14:59

duffy munn wrote:
Pervis Muldoon wrote:

I'd give Mel a point for preventing them from stealing signals; it would be taking one of your opponent's strengths away.

I remember once when Dantonio seemed to get beat by signal-stealing. MSU was undefeated going into Lincoln in 2011, and were set to roll over a Husker defense that has been getting roasted that season. But Nebraska somehow destroyed the Spartan offense of Cousins, Bell, Baker, Cunningham and Martin, winning 24-3. After the game, Husker defenders commented that they knew what the Spartans would do before they did it.

The gamesmanship between Pelini and Dantonio was fun. Dantonio's defense totally screwed the Huskers by clapping before the snap in 2014 after seeing that Nebraska's QB clapped for the snap on the road. That was against the rules, but it didn't get called in that game.

Either change the signals or run the plays in with subs ( running back or tight end). Making your QB run a marathon between plays is dumb.

We don't have enough information to make such definitive judgments.

by **duffy munn** 2022-11-20, 15:04

DWags wrote:
duffy munn wrote:

Serious question Wags. what should tucker have done if he indeed knew they were stealing signals? It seems to me he had better options that making Thorne go to the sidelines.

Run guys in. Could be anyone. From a tight end to receiver to a lineman. But who knows with injuries.

That's what I thought. Still can't believe what I was watching. Yarema tells a story of George of making him go to the side lines for plays. GP made him sprint. Dave said by the 3rd quarter his legs were gone.

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