Re: THE Game thread! Boo Buie is still playing!

[steveschneider]

If that one opinion is that off putting to him then it’s probably for the best. I stand by my analysis.

I agree with him on that and with you that most successful (all?) higher level college teams have some NBA potential players. However, sometimes they are considered NBA potential because of the team record in college, so that analysis is a double-edged sword.

One side of the sword was objective and the other was subjective. I stand by the objective and respect your opinions.

[Trapper Gus]

I agree with him on that and with you that most successful (all?) higher level college teams have some NBA potential players.  However, sometimes they are considered NBA potential because of the team record in college, so that analysis is a double-edged sword.

One side of the sword was objective and the other was subjective. I stand by the objective and respect your opinions.

The fact that players get a cup of coffee in the NBA is partly subjective, based on their college team's record and their contribution to that, getting their foot in the NBA door.  Many of them flame out at the NBA level, so were they NBA talent, or did they get there based on great college coaching making them look better than they objectively are?

[steveschneider]

One side of the sword was objective and the other was subjective. I stand by the objective and respect your opinions.

The fact that players get a cup of coffee in the NBA is partly subjective, based on their college team's record and their contribution to that, getting their foot in the NBA door.  Many of them flame out at the NBA level, so were they NBA talent, or did they get there based on great college coaching making them look better than they objectively are?

The NBA is the highest level. Just looked it up as of Feb 2022 4706 people total have player at least one full nba game after 76 seasons. Anyone that had made it that far has probably had all the best coaching, 1000s upon 1000s of hours of work and reached their ceiling. Drafting to an extent is a crap shoot and the high level competition creates a natural elimination process.

[Trapper Gus]

The fact that players get a cup of coffee in the NBA is partly subjective, based on their college team's record and their contribution to that, getting their foot in the NBA door.  Many of them flame out at the NBA level, so were they NBA talent, or did they get there based on great college coaching making them look better than they objectively are?

The NBA is the highest level. Just looked it up as of Feb 2022 4706 people total have player at least one full nba game after 76 seasons. Anyone that had made it that far has probably had all the best coaching, 1000s upon 1000s of hours of work and reached their ceiling. Drafting to an extent is a crap shoot and the high level competition creates a natural elimination process.

Don't disagree, however my point is that given that drafting is a "crap shoot" then drafting is a subjective process so then part of the subjectivity is how the potential draftees college team performed, thus if Izzo is as good of a coach as we believe then playing for him and being on an MSU team improves marginal "NBA talent" players chances of being drafted, and then just being drafted from a MSU team is not necessarily a good objective measure of NBA potential.

[steveschneider]

The NBA is the highest level. Just looked it up as of Feb 2022 4706 people total have player at least one full nba game after 76 seasons. Anyone that had made it that far has probably had all the best coaching, 1000s upon 1000s of hours of work and reached their ceiling. Drafting to an extent is a crap shoot and the high level competition creates a natural elimination process.

Don't disagree, however my point is that given that drafting is a "crap shoot" then drafting is a subjective process so then part of the subjectivity is how the potential draftees college team performed, thus if Izzo is as good of a coach as we believe then playing for him and being on an MSU team improves marginal "NBA talent" players chances of being drafted, and then just being drafted from a MSU team is not necessarily a good objective measure of NBA potential.

Agreed.
That’s everyone in the list that I have had/has at minimum have 82 games in the league.

[Trapper Gus]

Don't disagree, however my point is that given that drafting is a "crap shoot" then drafting is a subjective process so then part of the subjectivity is how the potential draftees college team performed, thus if Izzo is as good of a coach as we believe then playing for him and being on an MSU team improves marginal "NBA talent" players chances of being drafted, and then just being drafted from a MSU team is not necessarily a good objective measure of NBA potential.

Agreed.
That’s everyone in the list that I have had/has at minimum have 82 games in the league.

Okay - that filter is a start - maybe playing time in those 82 games & points scored is a second filter? "In the league" I assume means on the bench of an NBA team in the regular season, not the "G" or "D" teams.

[steveschneider]

Agreed.
That’s everyone in the list that I have had/has at minimum have 82 games in the league.

Okay - that filter is a start - maybe playing time in those 82 games & points scored is a second filter? "In the league" I assume means on the bench of an NBA team in the regular season, not the "G" or "D" teams.

Any way you cut it making it in the nba that long takes an unbelievable amount of talent and an ability to play the game at an incredibly high level. The talent gap between a person that makes it even 82 games vs a player that is in the g league is substantial.

The point is every Izzo team that’s made a final four run has at least one player that fits this criteria. He’s never done it without it. Last couple seasons he hasn’t had this type of talent and I think it explains the consistent early round exits. It is possible to get bounced early even with pro talent on the team (happens to Duke, Kentucky etc) but if you have those players three four seasons odds are damn good izzo will make a run.

[Trapper Gus]

Okay - that filter is a start - maybe playing time in those 82 games & points scored is a second filter? "In the league" I assume means on the bench of an NBA team in the regular season, not the "G" or "D" teams.

Any way you cut it making it in the nba that long takes an unbelievable amount of talent and an ability to play the game at an incredibly high level. The talent gap between a person that makes it even 82 games vs a player that is in the g league is substantial.

The point is every Izzo team that’s made a final four run has at least one player that fits these criteria. He’s never done it without it. Last couple seasons he hasn’t had this type of talent and I think it explains the consistent early round exits. It is possible to get bounced early even with pro talent on the team (happens to Duke, Kentucky etc) but if you have those players three four seasons odds are damn good izzo will make a run.

I'm thinking that Cash's last year should get a pass as most believe that was a final 4 type team and had no players which match your statement.

It might be an exception, however if you would soften your statement to say that Izzo has a higher likelihood of making it to the final four if he has NBA talent on the team instead of seemingly making is a hard rule that he must have NBA talent on the team you would be more accurate.

[steveschneider]

Any way you cut it making it in the nba that long takes an unbelievable amount of talent and an ability to play the game at an incredibly high level. The talent gap between a person that makes it even 82 games vs a player that is in the g league is substantial.

The point is every Izzo team that’s made a final four run has at least one player that fits these criteria. He’s never done it without it. Last couple seasons he hasn’t had this type of talent and I think it explains the consistent early round exits. It is possible to get bounced early even with pro talent on the team (happens to Duke, Kentucky etc) but if you have those players three four seasons odds are damn good izzo will make a run.

I'm thinking that Cash's last year should get a pass as most believe that was a final 4 type team and had no players which match your statement.

It might be an exception, however if you would soften your statement to say that Izzo has a higher likelihood of making it to the final four if he has NBA talent on the team instead of seemingly making is a hard rule that he must have NBA talent on the team you would be more accurate.

That team had Xavier Tillman.

[duffy munn]

I'm thinking that Cash's last year should get a pass as most believe that was a final 4 type team and had no players which match your statement.

It might be an exception, however if you would soften your statement to say that Izzo has a higher likelihood of making it to the final four if he has NBA talent on the team instead of seemingly making is a hard rule that he must have NBA talent on the team you would be more accurate.

That team had Xavier Tillman.

Who may never have become an NBA player if he didn't play with Cash or was coached by Izzo.

[Trapper Gus]

I'm thinking that Cash's last year should get a pass as most believe that was a final 4 type team and had no players which match your statement.

It might be an exception, however if you would soften your statement to say that Izzo has a higher likelihood of making it to the final four if he has NBA talent on the team instead of seemingly making is a hard rule that he must have NBA talent on the team you would be more accurate.

That team had Xavier Tillman.

Okay - and the number of NBA players on the present team is unknown.

[steveschneider]

That team had Xavier Tillman.

Okay - and the number of NBA players on the present team is unknown.

I don't see anyone with the size or shooting percentage that will get drafted so far. Xavier going off memory but I though it was clear by his sophomore year he was on an upward trajectory and NBA potential was getting batted around..

IMO this team has a bunch of great complimentary pieces that we've seen through out Izzo's long and incredible career he's currently missing that NBA piece. I still think next year it is looking promising that we add that piece.

[steveschneider]

That team had Xavier Tillman.

Who may never have become an NBA player if he didn't play with Cash or was coached by Izzo.

I have no doubt that playing under Tom Izzo and competing in the Big Ten can help a player develop. If Xavier went to some other program who knows what happens but I buy in that his time at MSU helped.

[Trapper Gus]

Okay - and the number of NBA players on the present team is unknown.

I don't see anyone with the size or shooting percentage that will get drafted so far. Xavier going off memory but I though it was clear by his sophomore year he was on an upward trajectory and NBA potential was getting batted around..

IMO this team has a bunch of great complimentary pieces that we've seen through out Izzo's long and incredible career he's currently missing that NBA piece. I still think next year it is looking promising that we add that piece.

I guess we will just have to wait and see on that.  I do not have such a high opinion of myself that I think I can evaluate basketball talent to that level.

Steve, as long as there are no posts after your post you can just delete it

[steveschneider]

I don't see anyone with the size or shooting percentage that will get drafted so far. Xavier going off memory but I though it was clear by his sophomore year he was on an upward trajectory and NBA potential was getting batted around..

IMO this team has a bunch of great complimentary pieces that we've seen through out Izzo's long and incredible career he's currently missing that NBA piece. I still think next year it is looking promising that we add that piece.

I guess we will just have to wait and see on that.  I do not have such a high opinion of myself that I think I can evaluate basketball talent to that level.

Steve, as long as there are no posts after your post you can just delete it

I couldn't delete it was on mobile last night.

You are correct time will tell and I have to say I think Kohler has the potential. Really looking forward to seeing how he progresses this season. As of now you can see him starting to have some moments and got that feeling there's more upside to come.

[NigelUno]

Dude took down Purdue again.

[tw]1730816679104418171[/tw]

[DWags]

Is this his sixth year? League is tough….. again. My daughter’s boyfriend is a northwestern undergraduate. We give those two our tickets to the game. The only person I know who takes a loss harder than my wife is my daughter. Four years of sweating on the sidelines I guess. Last year he texted me that I might have to pick her up in East Lansing because she wanted not to be around a NW grad.

He texted me this morning that he didn’t want the tickets just in case they beat us again. (We raise our children properly)

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