Future Debt Ceiling Hostage crisis

I'll have to check with my FP.

Looks like the debt deal will need Democratic votes, so one can think it will be much different than what the Republicans proposed.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/25/house-conservatives-mccarthy-biden-debt-talks-00098821


https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4019483-democrats-unanimously-back-debt-ceiling-discharge-petition/

TravelinMan wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
grad school at Michigan State... and, no, I didn't work hard (I tried to tell you that once).

I've been very privileged.

So you have a graduate degree, yet claim you didn't work hard?  

Okay..... Good for you, I guess.

Caution: A Novella Forthcoming

FYI - I didn't answer thoughtfully earlier, because (I think) I was in a bit of a hurry to do something and, as you may have noticed, my rapid-fire message board responses are usually not embedded in any significant degree of deep thought.

here's the thing - and it's not a comment on you, dude. I know I can be weird here and possibly.. "difficult" - but anytime I hear or see someone talk about "working hard", it hits a deep chord inside of the genetic code in my being.

and here's why:

I grew up in rural Appalachia. I have immense pride in the area that I come from. As I'm sitting here right now typing on my silly laptop, sipping expensive tequila and waiting for my wife to get home for goddamn Whole Foods - I'm wearing an "Appalachian 'til I Die" t-shirt.

the folks I grew up around "worked hard" - my Dad (RIP) wore a hardhat to work every day for 40+ years. That same hat is in my basement right now, hanging on a nail. I see it every time I'm down there (along with my high school football jersey where I was a star wide receiver for a team who threw the ball 3 times/game).

anyway..

from being a little kid, I know what "hard work" looks like. I'd watch my Dad work all week in the factory, come home exhausted with me and my brother (RIP) standing on the front porch asking him if he wanted to throw football in the back yard. He would almost always go out back and throw spirals as I ran a fly pattern mimicking Lynn Swann's juggling catch vs the Cowboys in 1976 (shout out to Google) when I was 8-9 years old.

He and his co-workers would sometimes work 16-24 hour shifts during harsh weather conditions to keep the plant going so that the town could have electricity.

as I got older, I learned to appreciate a bit more of the "hard work" that he and his generation put in. Sure, it's a cliche, but he was the hard hat, steel-toed boots guy who provided me, my brother and, to me, more importantly, my Mom (RIP), with a lifestyle where going camping for a week in the summer was a treat.

I grew up in an area where when we'd visit my grandmother, I'd drink water out of a deep well from a dented metal ladle (I can still see that ladle) and walk through a patch of weeds into the woods to use the bathroom at the outhouse.

somehow I managed to graduate high school and graduate from Appalachian State. Met my wife ( a Division I full scholarship college athlete, thank you very much) and we moved to East Lansing for grad school (me) and law school (her).

And, here's the deal, TravelinMan - I have no idea of your journey. I truly don't - and I'm certain you "worked hard" to get to where you are and for the successes you've experienced. And I'm genuinely happy for you. I know that I can be a total dick at times toward folks that I (fairly/unfairly) see as looking down their nose toward people who struggle and I do think it speaks to the "chip on my shoulder" way I grew up.

It's a big 'fuck you' to the world that I grew up in and on behalf of rural Appalachia. Where we're mocked by Hollywood, the mainstream media, and taken advantage of by politicians.

seriously - next time you see a TV show, a movie, etc., of someone portrayed as "ignorant", I'd be willing to bet you that it's being played in a southern/rural mountain accent.

So, no - I didn't work hard. I hung around East Lansing drinking beer and did some busy work while standing on the shoulders of people like my Dad and his co-workers at the mill who knew what genuine 'hard work' is.

anyway, man - I'm sorry for being a dick at times. I'll try to reel it in. That sort of thing just hits a nerve deep inside my DNA that I haven't quite been able to disconnect from even 35-40 years later.

and I fully acknowledge that my situation isn't unique. Each of us have our own and they're all equally important.

Thanks, dude.

Agree, shouldn't be difficult in Michigan to find a person who works their tail off and is scraping by... anyone who says "I worked hard" is slighting others who also work hard (or harder) and aren't as comfortable for whatever reason. One of my boys friend's dad is a paramedic in Flint... works 60 hrs a week (in complete shit), makes a third of what I do.

That must be some potent tequila

Trapper Gus wrote:That must be some potent tequila

I was sippin' on a Labatt Blue Light, as well.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:That must be some potent tequila

I was sippin' on a Labatt Blue Light, as well.

Got it.  What did your dad drink?

And btw, cool meltdown. Your dad sounds like the all the guys who got good wages working hard that the FDR administration with its overall of labor laws created in the golden era of the middle class in this country.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
I was sippin' on a Labatt Blue Light, as well.

Got it.  What did your dad drink?

And btw, cool meltdown. Your dad sounds like the all the guys who got good wages working hard that the FDR administration with its overall of labor laws created in the golden era of the middle class in this country.

my Dad didn't drink. And it wasn't that he was an alki or anything, I just never saw him drink. Even when I was older,, he'd come visit and we'd go to the Peanut Barrel, etc.

(I suspect he drank some when I was a kid, just not around us).

And, yep, back when a man could work a job and provide a middle class lifestyle for his family. Mom was an insurance agent but I suspect had she wanted to stay home, she could have. Both somehow managed to graduate from hS (not all of their brothers and sisters did. They were the success stories of the family)

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:

So you have a graduate degree, yet claim you didn't work hard?  

Okay..... Good for you, I guess.

Caution: A Novella Forthcoming

FYI - I didn't answer thoughtfully earlier, because (I think) I was in a bit of a hurry to do something and, as you may have noticed, my rapid-fire message board responses are usually not embedded in any significant degree of deep thought.

here's the thing - and it's not a comment on you, dude. I know I can be weird here and possibly.. "difficult" - but anytime I hear or see someone talk about "working hard", it hits a deep chord inside of the genetic code in my being.

and here's why:

I grew up in rural Appalachia. I have immense pride in the area that I come from. As I'm sitting here right now typing on my silly laptop, sipping expensive tequila and waiting for my wife to get home for goddamn Whole Foods - I'm wearing an "Appalachian 'til I Die" t-shirt.

the folks I grew up around "worked hard" - my Dad (RIP) wore a hardhat to work every day for 40+ years. That same hat is in my basement right now, hanging on a nail. I see it every time I'm down there (along with my high school football jersey where I was a star wide receiver for a team who threw the ball 3 times/game).

anyway..

from being a little kid, I know what "hard work" looks like. I'd watch my Dad work all week in the factory, come home exhausted with me and my brother (RIP) standing on the front porch asking him if he wanted to throw football in the back yard. He would almost always go out back and throw spirals as I ran a fly pattern mimicking Lynn Swann's juggling catch vs the Cowboys in 1976 (shout out to Google) when I was 8-9 years old.

He and his co-workers would sometimes work 16-24 hour shifts during harsh weather conditions to keep the plant going so that the town could have electricity.

as I got older, I learned to appreciate a bit more of the "hard work" that he and his generation put in. Sure, it's a cliche, but he was the hard hat, steel-toed boots guy who provided me, my brother and, to me, more importantly, my Mom (RIP), with a lifestyle where going camping for a week in the summer was a treat.

I grew up in an area where when we'd visit my grandmother, I'd drink water out of a deep well from a dented metal ladle (I can still see that ladle) and walk through a patch of weeds into the woods to use the bathroom at the outhouse.

somehow I managed to graduate high school and graduate from Appalachian State. Met my wife ( a Division I full scholarship college athlete, thank you very much) and we moved to East Lansing for grad school (me) and law school (her).

And, here's the deal, TravelinMan - I have no idea of your journey. I truly don't - and I'm certain you "worked hard" to get to where you are and for the successes you've experienced. And I'm genuinely happy for you. I know that I can be a total dick at times toward folks that I (fairly/unfairly) see as looking down their nose toward people who struggle and I do think it speaks to the "chip on my shoulder" way I grew up.

It's a big 'fuck you' to the world that I grew up in and on behalf of rural Appalachia. Where we're mocked by Hollywood, the mainstream media, and taken advantage of by politicians.

seriously - next time you see a TV show, a movie, etc., of someone portrayed as "ignorant", I'd be willing to bet you that it's being played in a southern/rural mountain accent.

So, no - I didn't work hard. I hung around East Lansing drinking beer and did some busy work while standing on the shoulders of people like my Dad and his co-workers at the mill who knew what genuine 'hard work' is.

anyway, man - I'm sorry for being a dick at times. I'll try to reel it in. That sort of thing just hits a nerve deep inside my DNA that I haven't quite been able to disconnect from even 35-40 years later.

and I fully acknowledge that my situation isn't unique. Each of us have our own and they're all equally important.

Thanks, dude.

Sounds like your dad was a cool dude. Any dad that has a catch with the kids after working ten just “trying to keep the wolves away” (uncle lucious) shows a live for family in a way that others don’t.  

And sure Gomer and Barney are idiots, but it’s always offset with the calm logic and intelligence of Andy.

DWags wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
Caution: A Novella Forthcoming

FYI - I didn't answer thoughtfully earlier, because (I think) I was in a bit of a hurry to do something and, as you may have noticed, my rapid-fire message board responses are usually not embedded in any significant degree of deep thought.

here's the thing - and it's not a comment on you, dude. I know I can be weird here and possibly.. "difficult" - but anytime I hear or see someone talk about "working hard", it hits a deep chord inside of the genetic code in my being.

and here's why:

I grew up in rural Appalachia. I have immense pride in the area that I come from. As I'm sitting here right now typing on my silly laptop, sipping expensive tequila and waiting for my wife to get home for goddamn Whole Foods - I'm wearing an "Appalachian 'til I Die" t-shirt.

the folks I grew up around "worked hard" - my Dad (RIP) wore a hardhat to work every day for 40+ years. That same hat is in my basement right now, hanging on a nail. I see it every time I'm down there (along with my high school football jersey where I was a star wide receiver for a team who threw the ball 3 times/game).

anyway..

from being a little kid, I know what "hard work" looks like. I'd watch my Dad work all week in the factory, come home exhausted with me and my brother (RIP) standing on the front porch asking him if he wanted to throw football in the back yard. He would almost always go out back and throw spirals as I ran a fly pattern mimicking Lynn Swann's juggling catch vs the Cowboys in 1976 (shout out to Google) when I was 8-9 years old.

He and his co-workers would sometimes work 16-24 hour shifts during harsh weather conditions to keep the plant going so that the town could have electricity.

as I got older, I learned to appreciate a bit more of the "hard work" that he and his generation put in. Sure, it's a cliche, but he was the hard hat, steel-toed boots guy who provided me, my brother and, to me, more importantly, my Mom (RIP), with a lifestyle where going camping for a week in the summer was a treat.

I grew up in an area where when we'd visit my grandmother, I'd drink water out of a deep well from a dented metal ladle (I can still see that ladle) and walk through a patch of weeds into the woods to use the bathroom at the outhouse.

somehow I managed to graduate high school and graduate from Appalachian State. Met my wife ( a Division I full scholarship college athlete, thank you very much) and we moved to East Lansing for grad school (me) and law school (her).

And, here's the deal, TravelinMan - I have no idea of your journey. I truly don't - and I'm certain you "worked hard" to get to where you are and for the successes you've experienced. And I'm genuinely happy for you. I know that I can be a total dick at times toward folks that I (fairly/unfairly) see as looking down their nose toward people who struggle and I do think it speaks to the "chip on my shoulder" way I grew up.

It's a big 'fuck you' to the world that I grew up in and on behalf of rural Appalachia. Where we're mocked by Hollywood, the mainstream media, and taken advantage of by politicians.

seriously - next time you see a TV show, a movie, etc., of someone portrayed as "ignorant", I'd be willing to bet you that it's being played in a southern/rural mountain accent.

So, no - I didn't work hard. I hung around East Lansing drinking beer and did some busy work while standing on the shoulders of people like my Dad and his co-workers at the mill who knew what genuine 'hard work' is.

anyway, man - I'm sorry for being a dick at times. I'll try to reel it in. That sort of thing just hits a nerve deep inside my DNA that I haven't quite been able to disconnect from even 35-40 years later.

and I fully acknowledge that my situation isn't unique. Each of us have our own and they're all equally important.

Thanks, dude.

Sounds like your dad was a cool dude. Any dad that has a catch with the kids after working ten just “trying to keep the wolves away” (uncle lucious) shows a live for family in a way that others don’t.  

And sure Gomer and Barney are idiots, but it’s always offset with the calm logic and intelligence of Andy.

thanks, dude.

And literally watching Andy Griffith right now.

(My family didn't represent Mayberry, though. That was "town". My family were The Darlins', Earnest T, Rafe Hollister. Jubal Foster, etc).

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

DWags wrote:

Sounds like your dad was a cool dude. Any dad that has a catch with the kids after working ten just “trying to keep the wolves away” (uncle lucious) shows a live for family in a way that others don’t.  

And sure Gomer and Barney are idiots, but it’s always offset with the calm logic and intelligence of Andy.

thanks, dude.

And literally watching Andy Griffith right now.

(My  family didn't represent Mayberry, though. That was "town". My family were The Darlins', Earnest T, Rafe Hollister. Jubal Foster, etc).

My wife's family resembles that.  AFAIK among all of the cousins on her mom's side she is the only one with a university degree, and in fact most didn't graduate HS but some got GED'S later.  Genealogy is one of my hobbies and as best as I can tell thr typical age of marriage for the women is 16.  They are nice, church going people, mostly, with many of the issues that the poor in this country have.  No idea if they vote or who for, that sort of thing doesn't come up at the times we see them, mostly funerals.

Christ almighty this thread has turned into Hillbilly Elegy.

Thanks for sharing, Bob. But I would argue that just because your father worked hard, doesn't mean you didn't. My grandfather worked in the coal mines. Yes, that was back breaking work. But that doesn't mean my father didn't work hard to get a factory job here in Michigan. It doesn't mean I didn't work hard to graduate from MSU. Just because you didn't work the "hardest" doesn't mean it wasn't hard. I'm sure no one gave you your current life. You worked to get it. Take pride in what you accomplished. You should be very proud.

Also (and conversely) on the "hard work" front....

How many perfectly smart people do you know who worked their tails off and got professional degrees (or whatever), but their path didn't end up at the top of the profession? Are they less worthy because the firm they chose had a dipshit inherit the reins after they put a decade into building it up? Or if they didn't interview as well as the blonde with the boobs?

AvgMSUJoe wrote:Also (and conversely) on the "hard work" front....

How many perfectly smart people do you know who worked their tails off and got professional degrees (or whatever), but their path didn't end up at the top of the profession? Are they less worthy because the firm they chose had a dipshit inherit the reins after they put a decade into building it up? Or if they didn't interview as well as the blonde with the boobs?

Are you saying you can only recognize hard work based upon accomplishments? That's silly. Hard work is hard work.

Motown Spartan wrote:Christ almighty this thread has turned into Hillbilly Elegy.

Fuck you and JD Vance.. that damn sorry as bitch. Turning his back on his family and where he claims to have grown up.

Take it back, Motown.

TAKE IT BACK!!

TravelinMan wrote:Thanks for sharing, Bob. But I would argue that just because your father worked hard, doesn't mean you didn't. My grandfather worked in the coal mines. Yes, that was back breaking work. But that doesn't mean my father didn't work hard to get a factory job here in Michigan. It doesn't mean I didn't work hard to graduate from MSU. Just because you didn't work the "hardest" doesn't mean it wasn't hard. I'm sure no one gave you your current life. You worked to get it. Take pride in what you accomplished. You should be very proud.

meh. Thanks (I guess).

I have "worked hard", but it has never been connected to school or actual work (where I might be eligible for remuneration). Training for/running marathons isn't easy, but even then it's just putting one foot in front of the other.

A few summers ago, I did spend 4 months undergoing chemotherapy. That sucked. I worked hard to stay healthy during that time.

so that might count for something.

thanks man.

Biden was going to crash the economy - didn't happen

COVID vaccines were going to cripple the economy - didn't happen

Russia was going to overrun Ukraine in 6 months of less - didn't happen

Major corporations wouldn't support boycotting Russian exports - didn't happen

Biden is getting older - as is every member of Congress and every candidate for POTUS

The only thing left for the GOP is a created crisis.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
thanks, dude.

And literally watching Andy Griffith right now.

(My  family didn't represent Mayberry, though. That was "town". My family were The Darlins', Earnest T, Rafe Hollister. Jubal Foster, etc).

My wife's family resembles that.  AFAIK among all of the cousins on her mom's side she is the only one with a university degree, and in fact most didn't graduate HS but some got GED'S later.  Genealogy is one of my hobbies and as best as I can tell thr typical age of marriage for the women is 16.  They are nice, church going people, mostly, with many of the issues that the poor in this country have.  No idea if they vote or who for, that sort of thing doesn't come up at the times we see them, mostly funerals.

my extended family, especially on my Mom's side, are are still quite poor. I'd go to my grandmother's house when I was a little kid and you could see daylight coming through the boards of the house. My grandmother would often wash clothes in the creek behind her house.

a lot of them (aunts, uncles, cousins) have spent time in jail, in and out of prison.

in fact, after Mom and Dad died (mom in 2012, dad in 2018), I sold Dad's truck to my one cousin who had just gotten out of the state prison. He was trying to work on a 'new start', had gotten a job with the county and paid me in cash. Literally handed me an envelope full of 100 dollar bills. I didn't ask where it came from.

GRR Spartan wrote:Biden was going to crash the economy - didn't happen

COVID vaccines were going to cripple the economy - didn't happen

Russia was going to overrun Ukraine in 6 months of less - didn't happen

Major corporations wouldn't support boycotting Russian exports - didn't happen

Biden is getting older - as is every member of Congress and every candidate for POTUS

The only thing left for the GOP is a created crisis.

all the GOP has is manufactured outrage, hate, fear and paranoia.

it's what happens when you choose fascism over helping folks out.

TravelinMan wrote:

AvgMSUJoe wrote:Also (and conversely) on the "hard work" front....

How many perfectly smart people do you know who worked their tails off and got professional degrees (or whatever), but their path didn't end up at the top of the profession? Are they less worthy because the firm they chose had a dipshit inherit the reins after they put a decade into building it up? Or if they didn't interview as well as the blonde with the boobs?

Are you saying you can only recognize hard work based upon accomplishments? That's silly. Hard work is hard work.

I'm saying, if you say "I worked hard" to justify whatever... If others haven't reached whatever, you are implying you worked harder than them. Which very well could not be true and belittles their efforts.

Plus "I worked hard" is an excuse Don Jr. would use to justify things... People who use that as a crutch usually feel the need to justify their lot in life for a reason.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

My wife's family resembles that.  AFAIK among all of the cousins on her mom's side she is the only one with a university degree, and in fact most didn't graduate HS but some got GED'S later.  Genealogy is one of my hobbies and as best as I can tell thr typical age of marriage for the women is 16.  They are nice, church going people, mostly, with many of the issues that the poor in this country have.  No idea if they vote or who for, that sort of thing doesn't come up at the times we see them, mostly funerals.

my extended family, especially on my Mom's side, are are still quite poor. I'd go to my grandmother's house when I was a little kid and you could see daylight coming through the boards of the house. My grandmother would often wash clothes in the creek behind her house.

a lot of them (aunts, uncles, cousins) have spent time in jail, in and out of prison.

in fact, after Mom and Dad died (mom in 2012, dad in 2018), I sold Dad's truck to my one cousin who had just gotten out of the state prison. He was trying to work on a 'new start', had gotten a job with the county and paid me in cash. Literally handed me an envelope full of 100 dollar bills. I didn't ask where it came from.

Ex felons have a bunch of issues, one of which is obtaining banking.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:my extended family, especially on my Mom's side, are are still quite poor. I'd go to my grandmother's house when I was a little kid and you could see daylight coming through the boards of the house. My grandmother would often wash clothes in the creek behind her house.

a lot of them (aunts, uncles, cousins) have spent time in jail, in and out of prison.

in fact, after Mom and Dad died (mom in 2012, dad in 2018), I sold Dad's truck to my one cousin who had just gotten out of the state prison. He was trying to work on a 'new start', had gotten a job with the county and paid me in cash. Literally handed me an envelope full of 100 dollar bills. I didn't ask where it came from.

Ex felons have a bunch of issues, one of which is obtaining banking.

I indeed.

AvgMSUJoe wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:

Are you saying you can only recognize hard work based upon accomplishments? That's silly. Hard work is hard work.

I'm saying, if you say "I worked hard" to justify whatever... If others haven't reached whatever, you are implying you worked harder than them. Which very well could not be true and belittles their efforts.

Plus "I worked hard" is an excuse Don Jr. would use to justify things... People who use that as a crutch usually feel the need to justify their lot in life for a reason.

yep.

I see it as a way of "othering". A majority of Americans "work hard" and have nowhere near the comforts I have because I have been very fortunate, very privileged, very male and very white.

For me to pretend otherwise makes me feel kinda slimy.

...Republicans’ insistence that spending is out of control does not reflect reality. In fact, discretionary spending has fallen more than 40% in the past 50 years as a percentage of gross domestic product, from 11% to 6.3%. What has driven rising deficits are the George W. Bush and Donald Trump tax cuts, which will have added $8 trillion and $1.7 trillion, respectively, to the debt by the end of the 2023 fiscal year.

https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/may-24-2023

As the Fitch credit rating service puts the United States on “watch” for a possible downgrade and Democrats dither about the 14th Amendment, Republicans just declared the House of Representatives in a break because, from their point of view, there really is no crisis.

In fact, from the GOP’s perspective, it’s all going according to plan.

As Teagan Goddard’s Political Wire noted yesterday:

“RNC Chair Ronna McDaniel told Fox News that the U.S. potentially defaulting on its debt ‘bodes very well for the Republican field.’”

It’s no accident or coincidence that the threat of a failure to pay the nation’s bills never once happened during the presidencies of Reagan, Bush, Bush, or Trump. Or that it did happen every single time during the presidencies of Clinton, Obama…and, now, Biden.

You could even call it a conspiracy: there’s an amazing backstory — with a unique name — here. And it all started with a guy named Jude Wanniski, who literally transformed American politics with a plan that the American mainstream media, astonishingly, continues to ignore.

https://hartmannreport.com/p/the-debt-ceiling-is-just-two-santas

Tentative deal reached!

Details: The deal between Biden and McCarthy — who spent 90 minutes on the phone Saturday evening — would raise the debt ceiling until January 2025 in exchange for spending cuts and deficit reduction measures, according to sources familiar with the negotiations.

Spending: Non-defense discretionary spending would be kept roughly flat in 2024, with a 1% increase in 2025 and no caps on growth afterward.

Welfare work requirements: Changes to Temporary Needy Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) and phased-in time limits for Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) recipients under age 54 until 2030. Medicaid is unchanged.

Defense: The plan includes $885 billion Biden sought in his 2024 budget proposal, up from just under $800 billion in the 2023 budget. Veterans Affairs spending also would be increased.

Permitting reform: Streamlines the environmental review process to speed up approval for new energy projects.

COVID aid: Claws back $29 billion in unspent COVID aid.

IRS funding: Rescinds $1.9 billion of the $70 billion in funding for new Internal Revenue Service agents in the Inflation Reduction Act.

https://www.axios.com/2023/05/28/debt-ceiling-deal-republicans-white-house

Don't know how, if this goes through, that it is anything but a win for Biden and sane government and a loss for the RWNJ crazies in the House. McCarthy is being much more pragmatic than I expected.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Details: The deal between Biden and McCarthy — who spent 90 minutes on the phone Saturday evening — would raise the debt ceiling until January 2025 in exchange for spending cuts and deficit reduction measures, according to sources familiar with the negotiations.

Spending: Non-defense discretionary spending would be kept roughly flat in 2024, with a 1% increase in 2025 and no caps on growth afterward.

Welfare work requirements: Changes to Temporary Needy Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) and phased-in time limits for Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) recipients under age 54 until 2030. Medicaid is unchanged.

Defense: The plan includes $885 billion Biden sought in his 2024 budget proposal, up from just under $800 billion in the 2023 budget. Veterans Affairs spending also would be increased.

Permitting reform: Streamlines the environmental review process to speed up approval for new energy projects.

COVID aid: Claws back $29 billion in unspent COVID aid.

IRS funding: Rescinds $1.9 billion of the $70 billion in funding for new Internal Revenue Service agents in the Inflation Reduction Act.

https://www.axios.com/2023/05/28/debt-ceiling-deal-republicans-white-house

Don't know how, if this goes through, that it is anything but a win for Biden and sane government and a loss for the RWNJ crazies in the House. McCarthy is being much more pragmatic than I expected.

Lol

Spending: Non-defense discretionary spending would be kept roughly flat in 2024, with a 1% increase in 2025 and no caps on growth afterward.

So the 30% cuts in many programs the Republicans passed in their first bill is out the window. Really most of their bill thrown in the trash heap.

A "caretaker" budget for FY 2024 (starts in October 2023), which is what Biden proposed at the beginning.

Token cuts for the IRS of about 2% of the increase when the Republicans wanted 100%.

Claw back of remaining COVID funds, which was a given and $29 Billion is a drop in the bucket of the Federal Budget.

But the big win is that Biden has eliminated the budget drama for 2023 & 2024. Locking the House into an agreed to framework for the next two years. A huge political win.

And only some people will go hungry over something that democrats could have done for nothing 6 months ago! Big win!

Come on trapper stop it. You’re not a political operative, you’re a message board shit poster. You don’t need to jerk off the President every chance you get. The thing is done, good. Big win is silly nonsense.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:And only some people will go hungry over something that democrats could have done for nothing 6 months ago! Big win!

Come on trapper stop it. You’re not a political operative, you’re a message board shit poster. You don’t need to jerk off the President every chance you get. The thing is done, good. Big win is silly nonsense.

Sorry you don't think so, however although I do cheer lead for the Democratics & Biden in this case they deserve it.

While some guys are really plugged into MSU sports, I am interested but not "plugged in". My passion is politics, and within the possible this deal is really good for Biden.

It is really huge that the budget outlines are set for the next two years, politically.

The Republicans are reduced to their silly hearings about Hunter Biden which few people care about and their ability to tank the economy, which 95% of the people care about, has been hugely reduced.

Again, no deal was necessary 6 months ago but he couldn’t get that done. Now people are going to starve because of his failiure.

The problem with people like you that describe this as your passion is that you often lose sight of the real world impacts of this shit and get too caught up in the horse race bullshit. There are no winners from this absolute nonsense.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Again, no deal was necessary 6 months ago but he couldn’t get that done. Now people are going to starve because of his failiure.

The problem with people like you that describe this as your passion is that you often lose sight of the real world impacts of this shit and get too caught up in the horse race bullshit. There are no winners from this absolute nonsense.

No Trav.

It is always about what is politically possible.

If the Democratics had tried to do this in the 117th the two "dog in the manger" independents in the Senate would have blocked it, either in reconciliation or refusing a filibuster rule change.  Now, with it being a bipartisan deal in the House the Senate's Republicans will be forced to bring it to the floor, voting for closure, thus procedural Seante issues will not be an issue.

As it is, the "Permitting reform: Streamlines the environmental review process to speed up approval for new energy projects." is a direct political payment for the vote of Senator from WV, which will help his election chances, and which was badly needed to support the IRA too.

You should expect the press, with Biden's tacit approval, to say the Republican got more, but it just isn't so.  They got what they got, the biggest thing being able to say the "cut spending" and some window dressing cuts.  

You are correct that the work requirements for TANF & time limits for SNAP will reduce participation, however, from what we know those were reduced from what the Republicans wanted and are in TANF case not a reduction, but an additional qualification paperwork needed which if filled out keeps benefits the same, as a majority of the people on those programs are low level wage earners.  The changes do not apply to those over 54, one of the softening, so the retired are not affected.

Then you get them to not block it, via politics.

Calling this a big win is huge loser shit. Do better.

It’s trav.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Then you get them to not block it, via politics.

Calling this a big win is huge loser shit. Do better.

It’s trav.

Spelling is hard (for me) and vowels are the hardest.  Fixed it, thanks.

For whatever reason their asking price was too high.  Probably what they were asking would have cause other members & Senators to vote against the bills.  Sometimes there really is no political solution that works.

I really expected the Republicans to go to the mattress on this, and they still might, and for Biden to be forced into unilaterally issuing more debt, however, some of the Republicans are smart enough to see that if that happened and the debt limit law was found to be in conflict with the 14th they would be losing a bargaining hammer, so neither side really wants that issue resolved.

https://www.axios.com/2023/05/27/debt-ceiling-biden-us-economy

Literally anything: *happens*
Trapper: "This was a great move by the Democrats!"

Cameron wrote:Literally anything: *happens*
Trapper: "This was a great move by the Democrats!"

LoL

Me ... wait for it ... and the Republicans

[tw]1661829120194387981[/tw]

[tw]1662649930878427136[/tw]

Sure, I cheer for the only sane party (If the Republicans went back to the Ike Republicans, I might change my mind) which supports the same policies that I like, should I not be cheering for those I consider the good guys?

Trapper is right about the two asshole senators that would never have allowed it. One is from a state that needs snap help the most.

We’ve migrated in politics in our country where we are allowing one or two people fuck us up. McCarthy is a watered down errand boy who would suck a dick for the job. I think he may have sucked MTG’s dick.

In my life we had Tip O’Neil. He wanted the job to help the country. I cant think of any other who wanted the job for that reason. The others wanted the label.

There are no winners here. Going forward we won’t have any either.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Cameron wrote:Literally anything: *happens*
Trapper: "This was a great move by the Democrats!"

Sure, I cheer a party

Okay stop.

Right there, that’s your problem. This isn’t sports and cheering for a party is silly nonsense.

DWags wrote:Trapper is right about the two asshole senators that would never have allowed it. One is from a state that needs snap help the most.

We’ve migrated in politics in our country where we are allowing one or two people fuck us up. McCarthy is a watered down errand boy who would suck a dick for the job. I think he may have sucked MTG’s dick.

In my life we had Tip O’Neil. He wanted the job to help the country. I cant think of any other who wanted the job for that reason. The others wanted the label.

There are no winners here. Going forward we won’t have any either.

Tip O’Neil? The same tip O’Neil that made deals with one of the worst presidents we e ever had? That tip O’Neil?

I’m not going to get into a tip O’Neil debate with you because I don’t want to, but there’s an argument that we’d all be a lot better off now if tip O’Neil stood up for what was right instead of bargaining with the devil for bargainings sake.