Future Debt Ceiling Hostage crisis
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Re: Future Debt Ceiling Hostage crisis
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Trapper Gus wrote:
Sure, I cheer a party
Okay stop.
Right there, that’s your problem. This isn’t sports and cheering for a party is silly nonsense.
It is far more serious than sports, yes, however, you seem to thing there are good ideas on both sides.
I don't, in general, though I have given Republican Presidents, even Trump, credit for some things they have done. Somehow you guys never notice it when I do.
Technically I cheer for the policy wins, which sometimes, like this debt issue, are simply blocking policy losses.
The Republicans, in my opinion, are openly trying to destroy the values and ideals of the United States, over the long term. They were not always this way, but since Reagan on they have been. When I say this I am talking about the policies they want, along with the results of those policies, since Reagan.
Cheering for the Democratics is to me cheering for the Democratic policies.
Re: Future Debt Ceiling Hostage crisis
Trapper Gus wrote:Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
Okay stop.
Right there, that’s your problem. This isn’t sports and cheering for a party is silly nonsense.
It is far more serious than sports, yes, however, you seem to thing there are good ideas on both sides.
I don't, in general, though I have given Republican Presidents, even Trump, credit for some things they have done. Somehow you guys never notice it when I do.
Technically I cheer for the policy wins, which sometimes, like this debt issue, are simply blocking policy losses.
The Republicans, in my opinion, are openly trying to destroy the values and ideals of the United States, over the long term. They were not always this way, but since Reagan on they have been. When I say this I am talking about the policies they want, along with the results of those policies, since Reagan.
Cheering for the Democratics is to me cheering for the Democratic policies.
The fact that there are no good ideas on one side does not make all ideas on the other side good and worthy of praise.
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Re: Future Debt Ceiling Hostage crisis
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Trapper Gus wrote:
It is far more serious than sports, yes, however, you seem to thing there are good ideas on both sides.
I don't, in general, though I have given Republican Presidents, even Trump, credit for some things they have done. Somehow you guys never notice it when I do.
Technically I cheer for the policy wins, which sometimes, like this debt issue, are simply blocking policy losses.
The Republicans, in my opinion, are openly trying to destroy the values and ideals of the United States, over the long term. They were not always this way, but since Reagan on they have been. When I say this I am talking about the policies they want, along with the results of those policies, since Reagan.
Cheering for the Democratics is to me cheering for the Democratic policies.
The fact that there are no good ideas on one side does not make all ideas on the other side good and worthy of praise.
I don't praise all the policies that the Democratic propose. However I praise their results as better that those awful Republican proposals. I follow the Reagan Rule of not saying much of anything about proposals from the Democratics that I don't agree with other than to point to the weakness in the policies.
Re: Future Debt Ceiling Hostage crisis
I don't know the chances of those efforts failing, and i don't know the mechanics behind actually doing that. So i'm going to assume if that was not truly on the table, if this "deal" is disliked by both the extreme party elements, the hard line folks, but still passes, it's probably a fine compromise in the end. Again, wish they would just put this nonsense to bed but if not that then i guess a compromise is OK.
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I ain't apologizing. I'm Team America.
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sεяεηιτλ wrote:I really wish democrats laid a killing blow to the whole withholding the debt limit as a hostage strategy the republicans employ to essentially erase or reduce things prior (dem) house budgets contained. That would be fantastic if they figured out how to do that.
I don't know the chances of those efforts failing, and i don't know the mechanics behind actually doing that. So i'm going to assume if that was not truly on the table, if this "deal" is disliked by both the extreme party elements, the hard line folks, but still passes, it's probably a fine compromise in the end. Again, wish they would just put this nonsense to bed but if not that then i guess a compromise is OK.
The fear of the Republicans is that the debt limit law is overturned by the courts so forcing that issue is not in their interest if they want to keep using the debt limit law to gain political advantage, thus they don't want it taken to court.
The fear of the Democratics is that it goes to court and it is upheld, which with the current Supreme Court is a possibility. That risk is not zero, and until it is tested that threat can still be used in negotiations, so they don't see it as being in their interest either.
So it is unlikely it will ever be tested.
edit - btw, here is some more reporting on how the Republicans are seeing this as a huge loss for their side.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/5/28/2171894/-Furious-Freedom-Caucus-vows-to-scuttle-debt-deal
edit2 - other Republicans calling it a win...
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/28/debt-ceiling-conservatives-dusty-johnson-00099116
Re: Future Debt Ceiling Hostage crisis
Trapper Gus wrote:sεяεηιτλ wrote:I really wish democrats laid a killing blow to the whole withholding the debt limit as a hostage strategy the republicans employ to essentially erase or reduce things prior (dem) house budgets contained. That would be fantastic if they figured out how to do that.
I don't know the chances of those efforts failing, and i don't know the mechanics behind actually doing that. So i'm going to assume if that was not truly on the table, if this "deal" is disliked by both the extreme party elements, the hard line folks, but still passes, it's probably a fine compromise in the end. Again, wish they would just put this nonsense to bed but if not that then i guess a compromise is OK.
The fear of the Republicans is that the debt limit law is overturned by the courts so forcing that issue is not in their interest if they want to keep using the debt limit law to gain political advantage, thus they don't want it taken to court.
The fear of the Democratics is that it goes to court and it is upheld, which with the current Supreme Court is a possibility. That risk is not zero, and until it is tested that threat can still be used in negotiations, so they don't see it as being in their interest either.
So it is unlikely it will ever be tested.
edit - btw, here is some more reporting on how the Republicans are seeing this as a huge loss for their side.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/5/28/2171894/-Furious-Freedom-Caucus-vows-to-scuttle-debt-deal
edit2 - other Republicans calling it a win...
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/28/debt-ceiling-conservatives-dusty-johnson-00099116
Those that will be calling it a loss for republicans: The left leaning websites like dailykos, palmer report, etc and the right wing extremists that would be unhappy with any compromise at all
Those that will be calling it a win: all republicans other than the extremists, right wing leaning news source that aren't extremists, etc
It's all pretty predictable actually, any regular right wing politician will for sure be in spin mode to the positive. Every regular left wing politician will for sure be in spin mode to the positive. Unless there are any major major concessions by the dems and the righties are pumping up certain things like reduce funding for something minor here and there, then it was probably not a real effective thing for the right wing agenda. but again majority of politicians will be spinning it for a win for their side.
As i said before, i'm not real happy this exists because there's no real reason this should be allowed to continue. But you're not wrong, the risk isn't zero. If it went to court, it would be ridiculous to allow it and doesn't make sense. But all it takes is for this court to define something in an advantageous way (even if ridiculous) and then rally behind it to get enough votes. And we all know they have and are willing to do that in service to the right wing agenda.
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Re: Future Debt Ceiling Hostage crisis
AvgMSUJoe wrote:So sorry you infer people are struggling around you. The pandemic has been hard on everyone, but the "soft landing" is occurring whether your chosen media source tells you it is or not. (slowing inflation, extremely low unemployment rate, near record profits for many)TravelinMan wrote:
My receipt at the check out line? The trend line of my brokerage account? My neighbors trying to get loans? Common sense?
Also, I just got a personal loan without having to even meet the banker, what kind of person is having problems with that?
(& btw, "common sense" isn't a thing in 'merica)
What Recession? American Spending reaches record high in April.
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Well, I'm kinda hoping a trans lady drinks a beer on TV or something to distract them.Robert J Sakimano wrote:so what are republicans going to try to do in the next 48 hours or so to screw up the debt ceiling deal in hopes of making America fail?
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AvgMSUJoe wrote:Well, I'm kinda hoping a trans lady drinks a beer on TV or something to distract them.Robert J Sakimano wrote:so what are republicans going to try to do in the next 48 hours or so to screw up the debt ceiling deal in hopes of making America fail?
I'm hearing things about black mermaids.
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if it upsets the personal-freedom lovin' christians who now want to kick their leader out of his speaker position, I'm happy about it.TravelinMan wrote:This must be a good deal because no one seems happy about it.
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Re: Future Debt Ceiling Hostage crisis
TravelinMan wrote:This must be a good deal because no one seems happy about it.
TG has been calling Biden a master negotiator, afterall. Didn't Obama give up a lot more? Biden seems to have played them hard. In other words, Joe Biden is crushing it and not at all the dangerous socialist democrat the right wing claims him to be. You can compromise with joe biden so the government can govern.
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Robert J Sakimano wrote:ya have to love it when the freedom-lovin' christians who mock a man they claim has dementia get out-negotiated by the man they claim has dementia.
It's almost as if every talking point they have is bullshit!
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Trapper Gus wrote:
And now to President Biden's desk!
And now Uncle Joe can add "avoided financial apocalypse" to his list of "accomplishments."
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Re: Future Debt Ceiling Hostage crisis
TravelinMan wrote:Trapper Gus wrote:
And now to President Biden's desk!
And now Uncle Joe can add "avoided financial apocalypse" to his list of "accomplishments."
"And continued leading the US in the fastest economic recovery from covid on the globe!"
It is a pretty big list, unless you are just listening to RWNJ radio.
Re: Future Debt Ceiling Hostage crisis
Trapper Gus wrote:TravelinMan wrote:
And now Uncle Joe can add "avoided financial apocalypse" to his list of "accomplishments."
"And continued leading the US in the fastest economic recovery from covid on the globe!"
It is a pretty big list, unless you are just listening to RWNJ radio.
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TravelinMan wrote:Trapper Gus wrote:
And now to President Biden's desk!
And now Uncle Joe can add "avoided financial apocalypse" to his list of "accomplishments."
Along with the announcement that the economy added 339,000 jobs in May.
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Re: Future Debt Ceiling Hostage crisis
Last edited by GRR Spartan on 2023-06-02, 09:15; edited 1 time in total
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TravelinMan wrote:Trapper Gus wrote:
"And continued leading the US in the fastest economic recovery from covid on the globe!"
It is a pretty big list, unless you are just listening to RWNJ radio.
Since President Biden is probably the best President we have had in most of your lifetimes a little cheerleading is very on the mark.
We haven't had a President this skilled at working with Congress to get what he really wants since LBJ.
edit - (I was concerned when his former Chief of Staff left due to exhaustion, but it seems that sleeping Joe has it covered with his new Chief of Staff)
Good Job Market Continues - AP News
[tw]1664480202590756864[/tw]
Last edited by Trapper Gus on 2023-06-02, 09:25; edited 1 time in total
Re: Future Debt Ceiling Hostage crisis
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After becoming President all the things TravelinMan and his heroes have predicted haven’t happened.
Things have gone so well the GOP, “conservatives” and “libertarians” have resorted to crisis creation. Federal Defcit/Budget, Wokeness, return to God, need religion in public schools, “Back the blue”, removing books from school/public libraries and anti LGBT.
Essentially returning to the century old Josef Goebels handbook.
Last edited by GRR Spartan on 2023-06-02, 13:50; edited 1 time in total
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Republicans brought the nation to the brink of default with their insistence that they opposed runaway government spending, but their demands did not square with that argument. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) said that the $21 billion cut in funding to the Internal Revenue Service, for example, will result in $40 billion in lost revenue, increasing the deficit by $19 billion.
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/june-1-2023
Re: Future Debt Ceiling Hostage crisis
GRR Spartan wrote:TravelinMan “The Swill’s self proclaimed libertarian” long time GOP voter can’t come to grips with the fact Biden survived a real coup encouraged by the POTUS TravelinMan voted for at least once.
After becoming President all the things TravelinMan and his heroes have predicted haven’t happened.
Things have gone so well the GOP, “conservatives” and “libertarians” have resorted to crisis creation. Federal Defcit/Budget, Wokeness, return to God, need religion in public schools, “Back the blue”, removing books from school/public libraries and anti LGBT.
Essentially returning to the century old Josef Goebels handbook.
You know you sound like a lunatic, right? Do you? Really?
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Re: Future Debt Ceiling Hostage crisis
Motown Spartan wrote:But, but, he fell down so he's unfit to be president.
Yeah, the one at the AF academy probably wasn't even his fault, but it was poorly timed given the questions being raised. I kind of feel bad for him on that one. He's 80. He's gonna bruise like a melon and hurt like hell today. But he can't take a day and rest because "politics." Sad.
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TravelinMan “The Swill’s self proclaimed libertarian” long time GOP voter can’t come to grips with the fact Biden survived a real coup encouraged by the POTUS TravelinMan voted for at least once.
After becoming President all the things TravelinMan and his heroes have predicted haven’t happened.
Things have gone so well the GOP, “conservatives” and “libertarians” have resorted to crisis creation. Federal Defcit/Budget, Wokeness, return to God, need religion in public schools, “Back the blue”, removing books from school/public libraries and anti LGBT.
Essentially returning to the century old Josef Goebels handbook.
Justing waiting for a terrorist attack perpetrated by a group with brown skin to rally the troops!
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Re: Future Debt Ceiling Hostage crisis
TravelinMan wrote:GRR Spartan wrote:TravelinMan “The Swill’s self proclaimed libertarian” long time GOP voter can’t come to grips with the fact Biden survived a real coup encouraged by the POTUS TravelinMan voted for at least once.
After becoming President all the things TravelinMan and his heroes have predicted haven’t happened.
Things have gone so well the GOP, “conservatives” and “libertarians” have resorted to crisis creation. Federal Defcit/Budget, Wokeness, return to God, need religion in public schools, “Back the blue”, removing books from school/public libraries and anti LGBT.
Essentially returning to the century old Josef Goebels handbook.
You know you sound like a lunatic, right? Do you? Really?
No he doesn't, he's spot on. You know how I know? Because you can't refute any of his points and call him a lunatic instead.
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Re: Future Debt Ceiling Hostage crisis
TravelinMan wrote:Motown Spartan wrote:But, but, he fell down so he's unfit to be president.
Yeah, the one at the AF academy probably wasn't even his fault, but it was poorly timed given the questions being raised. I kind of feel bad for him on that one. He's 80. He's gonna bruise like a melon and hurt like hell today. But he can't take a day and rest because "politics." Sad.
TM listens to RWNJ radio, though he knows he shouldn't...
Jonathan Lemire, Adam Cancryn, and Jennifer Haberkorn of Politico reported today that White House officials urged allies to downplay their substantial victory on the debt ceiling crisis and the related budget negotiations, afraid of sparking Republican opposition and eager to be seen as the adults in the room.
But they needn’t have worried. Today, President Biden tripped over a sandbag left in his path as he was jogging away from the center stage of the U.S. Air Force Academy graduation in Colorado after giving the commencement address. He appeared fine after the fall, but it is dominating right-wing social media, the debt ceiling crisis already forgotten.
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/june-1-2023
Last edited by Trapper Gus on 2023-06-02, 10:26; edited 1 time in total
Re: Future Debt Ceiling Hostage crisis
Motown Spartan wrote:TravelinMan wrote:
You know you sound like a lunatic, right? Do you? Really?
No he doesn't, he's spot on. You know how I know? Because you can't refute any of his points and call him a lunatic instead.
I don’t know how many more times I can tell you I’m not a MAGA Republican, nor have I ever voted for one. The fact that you guys don’t believe me tells me your fragile self worth can’t handle the truth.
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TravelinMan wrote:Motown Spartan wrote:
No he doesn't, he's spot on. You know how I know? Because you can't refute any of his points and call him a lunatic instead.
I don’t know how many more times I can tell you I’m not a MAGA Republican, nor have I ever voted for one. The fact that you guys don’t believe me tells me your fragile self worth can’t handle the truth.
Did you vote for Biden?
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but, boy, did he get defensive when he was called out for aligning himself with his christian hero at every turn.. to the point that he got mad and left.
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It's simple math.
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Trapper Gus wrote:TravelinMan wrote:
Since President Biden is probably the best President we have had in most of your lifetimes a little cheerleading is very on the mark.
We haven't had a President this skilled at working with Congress to get what he really wants since LBJ.
edit - (I was concerned when his former Chief of Staff left due to exhaustion, but it seems that sleeping Joe has it covered with his new Chief of Staff)
Good Job Market Continues - AP News
[tw]1664480202590756864[/tw]
He does seem capable of governing, even in an era of run-away partisanship. Hard lefties might not like some of the things he includes but that's what it takes to build a list of accomplishments these days.
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Re: Future Debt Ceiling Hostage crisis
sεяεηιτλ wrote:Trapper Gus wrote:
Since President Biden is probably the best President we have had in most of your lifetimes a little cheerleading is very on the mark.
We haven't had a President this skilled at working with Congress to get what he really wants since LBJ.
edit - (I was concerned when his former Chief of Staff left due to exhaustion, but it seems that sleeping Joe has it covered with his new Chief of Staff)
Good Job Market Continues - AP News
[tw]1664480202590756864[/tw]
He does seem capable of governing, even in an era of run-away partisanship. Hard lefties might not like some of the things he includes but that's what it takes to build a list of accomplishments these days.
I'm one of those hard lefties, however any sane person can see when a master at a craft is at work.
Biden says a bunch of stuff that hard lefties like, even if it doesn't get done 100%
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