Re: Francis Scott key bridge

by **NigelUno** 2024-03-26, 17:01

Trapper Gus wrote:
NigelUno wrote:

Not sure if that's an engineering joke. Both pics are from Tampa. And they knocked down the other side when they rebuilt it.

No just me being stupid, thought the one was a picture from Baltimore.

They kept using the other side in Tampa while they built a new one. Don't have that luxury in Baltimore. Took a year to rebuild the bridge in Minneapolis. Seems like this would take longer.

by **NigelUno** 2024-03-26, 17:09

Pic of new and old bridge in Tampa.

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-03-26, 17:39

NigelUno wrote:Pic of new and old bridge in Tampa.

Just watched the video of the collusion.

The ship pushed the support column sideways without much change in motion for the ship, so likely force was much less than above calculation. It looks like there is an "explosive" failure of the concrete caisson the support is on top of a couple of seconds after the ship is passed and then it just crumbles. The truss structure came down mostly in a piece, its truss strength holding it together to effect that. Anyone on the truss was in the water in seconds.

Only people who saw the warnings and stopped were safe.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2024-03-26, 18:02

If I were in charge of the boat I simply would have not driven into the bridge

by **tGreenWay** 2024-03-26, 18:12

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:If I were in charge of the boat I simply would have not driven into the bridge

Yeah, I don’t know why he would do that.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2024-03-26, 18:20

tGreenWay wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:If I were in charge of the boat I simply would have not driven into the bridge

Yeah, I don’t know why he would do that.

He is probably a gen z and was busy making a tock tock dance I bet.

by **Turtleneck** 2024-03-26, 18:51

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
tGreenWay wrote:

Yeah, I don’t know why he would do that.

Or a boomer taking a nap.

He is probably a gen z and was busy making a tock tock dance I bet.

by **DWags** 2024-03-26, 19:32

tGreenWay wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:If I were in charge of the boat I simply would have not driven into the bridge

Yeah, I don’t know why he would do that.

Fucking video games.

by **Heat Miser** 2024-03-26, 20:15

The Pantry wrote:The anchors are down in pics of the aftermath. Wonder if they dropped and dragged them when they first realized there was trouble, or if that was done later to keep the ship from moving?

I read they dropped anchors when they lost power. Didn't do much good.

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-03-26, 21:03

Turtleneck wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Or a boomer taking a nap.

He is probably a gen z and was busy making a tock tock dance I bet.

All joking aside the ship would have had a harbor pilot on board and in charge. Not much they could do with little control of the ship.

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-03-26, 21:04

Heat Miser wrote:
The Pantry wrote:The anchors are down in pics of the aftermath. Wonder if they dropped and dragged them when they first realized there was trouble, or if that was done later to keep the ship from moving?

I read they dropped anchors when they lost power. Didn't do much good.

Need bigger and heavier anchors

by **tGreenWay** 2024-03-26, 21:10

Trapper Gus wrote:
Heat Miser wrote:

I read they dropped anchors when they lost power. Didn't do much good.

Need bigger and heavier anchors

Then the entire eastern seaboard goes dark after those anchors sever major electric cables. /s

(adding the /s for your benefit)

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-03-26, 21:15

tGreenWay wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Need bigger and heavier anchors

Then the entire eastern seaboard goes dark after those anchors sever major electric cables. /s

(adding the /s for your benefit)

Thanks, imagine all the electrocuted fish.

by **tGreenWay** 2024-03-26, 21:17

Trapper Gus wrote:
tGreenWay wrote:

Then the entire eastern seaboard goes dark after those anchors sever major electric cables. /s

(adding the /s for your benefit)

Thanks, imagine all the electrocuted fish.

An actual fish fry.

by **The Pantry** 2024-03-26, 21:20

Trapper Gus wrote:
Heat Miser wrote:

I read they dropped anchors when they lost power. Didn't do much good.

Need bigger and heavier anchors

That waterway/channel is likely just muck on the bottom. Doubt any anchor could have slowed it down much.

by **The Pantry** 2024-03-26, 21:27

tGreenWay wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Need bigger and heavier anchors

Then the entire eastern seaboard goes dark after those anchors sever major electric cables. /s

(adding the /s for your benefit)

Maybe you didn't notice in the vids. The power cables there are overhead/above the water. Kind of unusual.

by **tGreenWay** 2024-03-26, 21:33

The Pantry wrote:
tGreenWay wrote:

Then the entire eastern seaboard goes dark after those anchors sever major electric cables. /s

(adding the /s for your benefit)
Maybe you didn't notice in the vids. The power cables there are overhead/above the water. Kind of unusual.

Maybe you didn’t notice the /s. I was being sarcastic in re: Trapper’s comment about bigger, heavier anchors. All that fast food you eat is rotting your brain. Keep up, Pantry.

by **The Pantry** 2024-03-26, 21:46

tGreenWay wrote:
The Pantry wrote:Maybe you didn't notice in the vids. The power cables there are overhead/above the water. Kind of unusual.

Maybe you didn’t notice the /s. I was being sarcastic in re: Trapper’s comment about bigger, heavier anchors. All that fast food you eat is rotting your brain. Keep up, Pantry.

Sorry. I don't try to keep up with milllennial text code/abbreviations like you do. I work for a living.

by **tGreenWay** 2024-03-26, 21:50

The Pantry wrote:
tGreenWay wrote:

Maybe you didn’t notice the /s. I was being sarcastic in re: Trapper’s comment about bigger, heavier anchors. All that fast food you eat is rotting your brain. Keep up, Pantry.
Sorry. I don't try to keep up with milllennial text code/abbreviations like you do. I work for a living.

That /s has been around since the early days of TOB.

by **The Pantry** 2024-03-26, 21:53

tGreenWay wrote:
The Pantry wrote:Sorry. I don't try to keep up with milllennial text code/abbreviations like you do. I work for a living.

That /s has been around since the early days of TOB.

Never heard of it.

by **duffy munn** 2024-03-26, 22:36

Now now Greenway and Pantry. Let's just call this water under the bridge

by gomersbro 2024-03-27, 01:48

duffy munn wrote:Now now Greenway and Pantry. Let's just call this water under the bridge

Duff you need to keep up. The bridge is in the water not over it.

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-03-27, 07:38

The Pantry wrote:
tGreenWay wrote:

Then the entire eastern seaboard goes dark after those anchors sever major electric cables. /s

(adding the /s for your benefit)
Maybe you didn't notice in the vids. The power cables there are overhead/above the water. Kind of unusual.

Those power poles, which I question because it looks like a lower voltage line, and why would anyone run that over a river, seem to have protection against ships running into them that the bridge should have had.

I have never heard of high voltage power transmission lines running underwater but with the "/s" I wasn't going to mention that.

https://www.mlive.com/news/2024/03/has-the-mackinac-bridge-ever-been-struck-by-a-ship-3-collisions-that-made-headlines.html

by **MiamiSpartan** 2024-03-27, 08:18

The Pantry wrote:
tGreenWay wrote:

That /s has been around since the early days of TOB.
Never heard of it.

Honestly, I had never heard of it either until a few months ago, and it was Trapper (hardly a millenial) that used it and explained it to me (GenX).

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2024-03-27, 08:52

Like nearly everything on the other board that they pretend is original to that board, it is not unique to that board. Probably a rip off of Reddit, like most of those types of things

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-03-27, 09:20

MiamiSpartan wrote:
The Pantry wrote:
Never heard of it.

Honestly, I had never heard of it either until a few months ago, and it was Trapper (hardly a millennial) that used it and explained it to me (GenX).

As explained to me by one of the board's experts, boomer and millennial are not age related, but attitude related.

Therefore, I am claiming millennial rights on this question /s

by CaptainSlow33 2024-03-27, 11:47

I fell down a TikTok rabbit hole of Great Lakes shipping pilots and captains giving their insight into this last night. Most of what they said has already been said here, but it sounds like the crew may have been in the middle of a maneuver to spin the ship around to slow it/steer it out of danger, but ultimately lost power. The steering and lighting for modern ships is on its own backup generator, so the consensus seems to be that the lights of the ship going out may indicate a major problem the crew was dealing with leading up to impact. Since they were on their way out to sea, the harbor's tugs probably wouldn't have been hovering too close, and probably couldn't have gotten into position to push the ship away from the bridge. Sounds like the anchor had been dropped, but the ship was dragging it. Tragic that the construction crew on the bridge didn't have a radio. From the recordings I've heard, one of the officers who had been blocking traffic was getting ready to head out to tell the crew to clear out when the ship hit.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2024-03-27, 12:12

this is what happens when we remove jesus from schools

by **Motown Spartan** 2024-03-27, 17:10

by **tGreenWay** 2024-03-27, 17:35

Trapper Gus wrote:
The Pantry wrote:
Maybe you didn't notice in the vids. The power cables there are overhead/above the water. Kind of unusual.

Those power poles, which I question because it looks like a lower voltage line, and why would anyone run that over a river, seem to have protection against ships running into them that the bridge should have had.

I have never heard of high voltage power transmission lines running underwater but with the "/s" I wasn't going to mention that.

https://www.mlive.com/news/2024/03/has-the-mackinac-bridge-ever-been-struck-by-a-ship-3-collisions-that-made-headlines.html

What I posted was sarcasm, but I knew there were underwater high voltage cables. A good example would be how power gets to an island.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_power_cable

by **tGreenWay** 2024-03-27, 17:37

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Like nearly everything on the other board that they pretend is original to that board, it is not unique to that board. Probably a rip off of Reddit, like most of those types of things

I never said it was original to tob. I said it’d seen it there for years.

by **tGreenWay** 2024-03-27, 17:40

CaptainSlow33 wrote:I fell down a TikTok rabbit hole of Great Lakes shipping pilots and captains giving their insight into this last night. Most of what they said has already been said here, but it sounds like the crew may have been in the middle of a maneuver to spin the ship around to slow it/steer it out of danger, but ultimately lost power. The steering and lighting for modern ships is on its own backup generator, so the consensus seems to be that the lights of the ship going out may indicate a major problem the crew was dealing with leading up to impact. Since they were on their way out to sea, the harbor's tugs probably wouldn't have been hovering too close, and probably couldn't have gotten into position to push the ship away from the bridge. Sounds like the anchor had been dropped, but the ship was dragging it. Tragic that the construction crew on the bridge didn't have a radio. From the recordings I've heard, one of the officers who had been blocking traffic was getting ready to head out to tell the crew to clear out when the ship hit.

There was a port worker interviewed who said the Dali was having power issues the entire two days it was docked. She said because of those issues it was her opinion that the ship should’ve left in daylight to have a clearer sense of what they were navigating.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2024-03-27, 17:44

tGreenWay wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Like nearly everything on the other board that they pretend is original to that board, it is not unique to that board. Probably a rip off of Reddit, like most of those types of things

I never said it was original to tob. I said it’d seen it there for years.

Listen up lawyer man

I don’t care

by **tGreenWay** 2024-03-27, 17:56

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
tGreenWay wrote:

I never said it was original to tob. I said it’d seen it there for years.

Listen up lawyer man

I don’t care

https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/career-development/reading-comprehension-improvement-strategies

by **DWags** 2024-03-27, 18:14

They found two bodies. RIP

by **The Pantry** 2024-03-27, 20:24

MiamiSpartan wrote:
The Pantry wrote:
Never heard of it.

Honestly, I had never heard of it either until a few months ago, and it was Trapper (hardly a millenial) that used it and explained it to me (GenX).

Consider the wedgie smilie more communicative than a slash s. Little wonder Greenway is 300 years old now Francis Scott key bridge - Page 2 506486848

Francis Scott key bridge - Page 2 506486848

by **Trapper Gus** 2024-03-28, 07:28

The Pantry wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:

Honestly, I had never heard of it either until a few months ago, and it was Trapper (hardly a millenial) that used it and explained it to me (GenX).
Consider the wedgie smilie more communicative than a slash s. Little wonder Greenway is 300 years old now

This board doesn't have a "sarcasm" emoji, thus the need to go "old school" Francis Scott key bridge - Page 2 2102841802

by CaptainSlow33 2024-03-29, 08:55

tGreenWay wrote:
CaptainSlow33 wrote:I fell down a TikTok rabbit hole of Great Lakes shipping pilots and captains giving their insight into this last night. Most of what they said has already been said here, but it sounds like the crew may have been in the middle of a maneuver to spin the ship around to slow it/steer it out of danger, but ultimately lost power. The steering and lighting for modern ships is on its own backup generator, so the consensus seems to be that the lights of the ship going out may indicate a major problem the crew was dealing with leading up to impact. Since they were on their way out to sea, the harbor's tugs probably wouldn't have been hovering too close, and probably couldn't have gotten into position to push the ship away from the bridge. Sounds like the anchor had been dropped, but the ship was dragging it. Tragic that the construction crew on the bridge didn't have a radio. From the recordings I've heard, one of the officers who had been blocking traffic was getting ready to head out to tell the crew to clear out when the ship hit.

There was a port worker interviewed who said the Dali was having power issues the entire two days it was docked. She said because of those issues it was her opinion that the ship should’ve left in daylight to have a clearer sense of what they were navigating.

Not saying she was wrong, but it seems like they knew exactly where they were while they were drifting. Even in the daylight, if they lose control of steering and propulsion, it's hard to fight against the current sending them into the pylon. It sounds like the ocean cargo ships are infamous for being overloaded, and operating as cheaply as possible to maximize corporate profits - everything I'm reading seems to point to the Dali (as well as many US-owned, foreign crewed/flagged ships) not being up to the US Coast Guard's standards. I'd say that it's time for our government to act, but I'm sure they are already cashing checks from the shipping companies to do nothing.

by **DWags** 2024-03-29, 09:02

Not knowing much about tugboats and harbors, I guess I don’t understand why tugboats wouldn’t remain with those big ships until they got under that bridge and threw it into open water.

It seems like a layer of safety that needs to be added

Again, I don’t know the cost of that if it’s prohibitive, how much traffic would slow down, etc. I just don’t get why tugboats didn’t guide those big shifts all the way through that bridge

At the same time, I grew up in Manistee and the river from Manistee Lake, which is surrounded by major factories out to Lake Michigan is not that wide I’ve watched those huge ships going down that river and the captains maneuvering them and I’m just astounded by how good they are Maybe 10 yards on both sides of the ships Truly are amazing people

by CaptainSlow33 2024-03-29, 09:08

DWags wrote:Not knowing much about tugboats and harbors, I guess I don’t understand why tugboats wouldn’t remain with those big ships until they got under that bridge and threw it into open water.

It seems like a layer of safety that needs to be added

Again, I don’t know the cost of that if it’s prohibitive, how much traffic would slow down, etc. I just don’t get why tugboats didn’t guide those big shifts all the way through that bridge

At the same time, I grew up in Manistee and the river from Manistee Lake, which is surrounded by major factories out to Lake Michigan is not that wide I’ve watched those huge ships going down that river and the captains maneuvering them and I’m just astounded by how good they are Maybe 10 yards on both sides of the ships Truly are amazing people

Per the Great Lakes captains/pilots I've seen chiming in on the topic: Ships are not legally required to have tugboats with them coming or going from the harbor. Most common time for ships to have tugs is to edge into their docking position, or to pull out. On narrow waterways, pilots can request the tug to give them a nudge to help them around a tight bend. Pilots have the discretion to request tugs to follow them in or out, but if the ship doesn't ask, the tugs will go back to dock. The Dali was leaving the harbor and heading out to sea - it is rare for ships to have tug escorts heading out of a harbor. Even if the Dali would have called for tug assistance when the power started going out, it would have taken the tugs a while to get into position and push the Dali out of harm's way.

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