Re: What y time do the polls open tomorrow in Scotland?

by LoneWolfSparty 2014-09-18, 08:35

Well, while the exit polls are too close to call, the markets seem to suggest that there is little chance of a Yes vote. Drats.

I hate GB. And I hate the UK.

by **Turtleneck** 2014-09-18, 08:43

LoneWolfSparty wrote:Well, while the exit polls are too close to call, the markets seem to suggest that there is little chance of a Yes vote. Drats.

I hate GB. And I hate the UK.

A lot of people saying yes in a poll, but voting no in the voting booth. To be honest, probably a good idea to stay with the UK given the lack of long-term economic resources and potential currency issues.

by **steveschneider** 2014-09-18, 08:52

Turtleneck wrote:

A lot of people saying yes in a poll, but voting no in the voting booth. To be honest, probably a good idea to stay with the UK given the lack of long-term economic resources and potential currency issues.

I had no opinion on this matter but did some reading up on it. I think the move for Scotland is a cop out to bow out of the global economy.

In the era of globalization to want to shrink back and fall out of the European union is imo is taking a step back from the direction the global community is headed.

by **Jake from State Farm** 2014-09-18, 08:55

steveschneider wrote:

I had no opinion on this matter but did some reading up on it. I think the move for Scotland is a cop out to bow out of the global economy.

In the era of globalization to want to shrink back and fall out of the European union is imo is taking a step back from the direction the global community is headed.

Isn't the EU basically bankrupt? That could be one of the reasons they don't want to be a part of it.

by LoneWolfSparty 2014-09-18, 08:55

steveschneider wrote:

I had no opinion on this matter but did some reading up on it. I think the move for Scotland is a cop out to bow out of the global economy.

In the era of globalization to want to shrink back and fall out of the European union is imo is taking a step back from the direction the global community is headed.

Thanks for your opinion.

by **Turtleneck** 2014-09-18, 09:25

steveschneider wrote:

I had no opinion on this matter but did some reading up on it. I think the move for Scotland is a cop out to bow out of the global economy.

In the era of globalization to want to shrink back and fall out of the European union is imo is taking a step back from the direction the global community is headed.

Alex Salmond wants an independent Scotland to be a part of the EU.

by **steveschneider** 2014-09-18, 10:36

Turtleneck wrote:

Alex Salmond wants an independent Scotland to be a part of the EU.

I guess they want to stick with the pound, but what's the point in that? They are going to separate from England but be at the mercy of the UK currency.

The other option is to go to the EU, which I'm reading could make matters even worse. Doesn't even seem like they've fully thought out life after England but they keep saying 'oh, it will work out'.

I'm going to make a dumb analogy, it reminds me of folk that can't hack it in the work force they hate the real world and adult responsibility so they go back to grad school to return to their 'halcyon' days. Those days are gone.

I think they should stay, try to work through their issues in a more constructive manner and embrace England.

The long term goal for the human race should be about reducing borders, not creating more.

by **Cym Jim** 2014-09-18, 10:52

steveschneider wrote:

I guess they want to stick with the pound, but what's the point in that? They are going to separate from England but be at the mercy of the UK currency.

The other option is to go to the EU, which I'm reading could make matters even worse. Doesn't even seem like they've fully thought out life after England but they keep saying 'oh, it will work out'.

I'm going to make a dumb analogy, it reminds me of folk that can't hack it in the work force they hate the real world and adult responsibility so they go back to grad school to return to their 'halcyon' days. Those days are gone.

I think they should stay, try to work through their issues in a more constructive manner and embrace England.

The long term goal for the human race should be about reducing borders, not creating more.

Half the country is worried if they'll still get English television shows. They don't generate a lot of culture up there. Almost as bad as Australia.

by **steveschneider** 2014-09-18, 10:57

Cym Jim wrote:

Half the country is worried if they'll still get English television shows. They don't generate a lot of culture up there. Almost as bad as Australia.

If they do separate from what I've read you have tons of UK students up there, you have all the UK investment in wind energy, Scottish research labs are subsidized by the UK. Just the cost the Scottish are going to have incur in the 'divorce' alone seems to make it a risky move.

Also, seems like they are banking on living off of the petroleum in the North Sea. Great idea banking your future on a finite resource that is expected to last 60-70 years. That's a short amount of time in terms of the life of a country and seems like a very foolish bet in my opinion.

by LoneWolfSparty 2014-09-18, 10:59

steveschneider wrote:

If they do separate from what I've read you have tons of UK students up there, you have all the UK investment in wind energy, Scottish research labs are subsidized by the UK. Just the cost the Scottish are going to have incur in the 'divorce' alone seems to make it a risky move.

Also, seems like they are banking on living off of the petroleum in the North Sea. Great idea banking your future on a finite resource that is expected to last 60-70 years. That's a short amount of time in terms of the life of a country and seems like a very foolish bet in my opinion.

60-70 year estimate is probably low. Further, the registered voter, I am assuming aged 18, doesn't give a flip about 80 years from now.

by **steveschneider** 2014-09-18, 11:03

LoneWolfSparty wrote:

60-70 year estimate is probably low. Further, the registered voter, I am assuming aged 18, doesn't give a flip about 80 years from now.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26326117

Going off that link, the future of North Sea oil isn't looking very good.

On the other hand, if the vote goes through and they separate it will be fun to watch what happens. I just don't think it will work out that well for Scotland though.

by **Turtleneck** 2014-09-18, 11:27

steveschneider wrote:

I guess they want to stick with the pound, but what's the point in that? They are going to separate from England but be at the mercy of the UK currency.

The other option is to go to the EU, which I'm reading could make matters even worse. Doesn't even seem like they've fully thought out life after England but they keep saying 'oh, it will work out'.

I'm going to make a dumb analogy, it reminds me of folk that can't hack it in the work force they hate the real world and adult responsibility so they go back to grad school to return to their 'halcyon' days. Those days are gone.

I think they should stay, try to work through their issues in a more constructive manner and embrace England.

The long term goal for the human race should be about reducing borders, not creating more.

There are two approaches to using the pound. The first would be a formal currency union. Theoretically that would mean Scotland and the UK cooperatively govern the pound and associated fiscal policy. The other option is for Scotland to unilaterally adopt the pound. The latter seems more probable because the UK has so far rejected the idea of a formal currency union, and Alex Salmond has said that he is not afraid of unilaterally adopting the pound and walking away from Scotland's share of the UK national debt at the same time. While that sounds great, it break ties from the Bank of England and imposes considerable financial burdens on a new Scottish state from the start. It's probably not good to promise more government spending through independence, and then begin independence with strict austerity measures.

So this not thinking it through thing...this is why it seems like a political power grab by the Scottish Nationalists more than a claim to national sovereignty. Personally, from an outsiders perspective, the Nationalists appear to be less than honest about the economic consequences of independence. To some extent, this is a sad commentary about the nature of our world...that global markets and currency dictate decisions about freedom.

by **steveschneider** 2014-09-18, 11:44

Turtleneck wrote:

There are two approaches to using the pound. The first would be a formal currency union. Theoretically that would mean Scotland and the UK cooperatively govern the pound and associated fiscal policy. The other option is for Scotland to unilaterally adopt the pound. The latter seems more probable because the UK has so far rejected the idea of a formal currency union, and Alex Salmond has said that he is not afraid of unilaterally adopting the pound and walking away from Scotland's share of the UK national debt at the same time. While that sounds great, it break ties from the Bank of England and imposes considerable financial burdens on a new Scottish state from the start. It's probably not good to promise more government spending through independence, and then begin independence with strict austerity measures.

So this not thinking it through thing...this is why it seems like a political power grab by the Scottish Nationalists more than a claim to national sovereignty. Personally, from an outsiders perspective, the Nationalists appear to be less than honest about the economic consequences of independence. To some extent, this is a sad commentary about the nature of our world...that global markets and currency dictate decisions about freedom.

Great post.

Also, I just read this and I think it's spot on.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidnicholson/2014/03/05/5-reasons-why-scottish-independence-would-be-an-economic-disaster/

by LoneWolfSparty 2014-09-18, 12:09

steveschneider wrote:

Great post.

Also, I just read this and I think it's spot on.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidnicholson/2014/03/05/5-reasons-why-scottish-independence-would-be-an-economic-disaster/

I remember when I moved out of my parents house. It was a financial disaster. I went from 90% of my income being disposable, but having to live on < $1000 in discretionary spending money a month. However, the feeling of freedom more than compensated for any amount of money that it was costing me. I have think that the Scottish people might be willing to trade some economic stability for the right to self govern. But that is just me.

by **Wally Fairway** 2014-09-18, 16:01

Welp - the vote is in & big change is coming to Scotland

Spoiler:

by **Wally Fairway** 2014-09-18, 16:11

gHost Spartan wrote:Fuck independence

you forget to log in as that Loyalist poster - Trevor Barnes

by **Turtleneck** 2014-09-18, 21:52

LoneWolfSparty wrote:

I remember when I moved out of my parents house. It was a financial disaster. I went from 90% of my income being disposable, but having to live on < $1000 in discretionary spending money a month. However, the feeling of freedom more than compensated for any amount of money that it was costing me. I have think that the Scottish people might be willing to trade some economic stability for the right to self govern. But that is just me.

Of course, a complete economic meltdown is not exactly the minor economic disturbance you seem to be describing.

Of course, such a meltdown often results in government directed economic growth. As you would tell us, such direction detracts from freedom because it amounts to excessive state intervention into the economy.

To sum up, the probable economic consequences would likely undermine freedom. However, early returns show independence is unlikely. Probably because people are afraid of how the global marketplace would punish Scotland for pursuing self-determination.

by **Cym Jim** 2014-09-18, 23:54

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2014-09-19, 00:40

Cym Jim wrote:

What y time do the polls open tomorrow in Scotland? - Page 2 ?id=2788&num=103&size=stillclean

by **CORNER BLITZ** 2014-09-19, 00:41

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

that's an 8.5/10 in England...

by **Jaheab** 2014-09-19, 00:55

Cym Jim wrote:
Half the country is worried if they'll still get English television shows. They don't generate a lot of culture up there. Almost as bad as Australia.

Chris Lily is pretty much the only thing that country has going for it

by **Cym Jim** 2014-09-19, 01:39

My god, what a bunch of pussies the Scots are. You're handed the opportunity to be independent on a plate, and you decide to stay being ruled by a bunch of English toffs and royalty. ****ing embarrassing.

by LoneWolfSparty 2014-09-19, 07:09

Royalty blows.

by LoneWolfSparty 2014-09-19, 08:48

Sounds like the Scot yes voters aren't taking defeat too well. They may start blowing things up.

by **xsanguine** 2014-09-19, 09:00

LoneWolfSparty wrote:Sounds like the Scot yes voters aren't taking defeat too well. They may start blowing things up.

Nah, they're pussies. They're not Irish.

by **steveschneider** 2014-09-19, 09:01

LoneWolfSparty wrote:Sounds like the Scot yes voters aren't taking defeat too well. They may start blowing things up.

Glad the no voters won. Either way 50% of the Scottish eople today were going to be pissed off.

by **Watch Out Pylon!** 2014-09-19, 09:09

Democracyyyyyyyyyy!!!

by **xsanguine** 2014-09-19, 09:09

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:Democracyyyyyyyyyy!!!

hmph

by LoneWolfSparty 2014-09-19, 09:36

xsanguine wrote:

Nah, they're pussies. They're not Irish.

It's okay to rip on them as a whole because they're white!

by **xsanguine** 2014-09-19, 11:05

LoneWolfSparty wrote:

It's okay to rip on them as a whole because they're white!

Barely.

by **steveschneider** 2014-09-19, 11:22

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/19/us-usa-secession-exclusive-idUSKBN0HE19U20140919

Looks like 1 in 4 Americans are open to secession.

by **Watch Out Pylon!** 2014-09-19, 11:30

steveschneider wrote:http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/19/us-usa-secession-exclusive-idUSKBN0HE19U20140919

Looks like 1 in 4 Americans are open to succession.

I'm already pretty successful. Thanks though.

by **steveschneider** 2014-09-19, 11:31

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:
I'm already pretty successful. Thanks though.

Hahaha, fixed it.

by LoneWolfSparty 2014-09-19, 11:45

steveschneider wrote:http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/19/us-usa-secession-exclusive-idUSKBN0HE19U20140919

Looks like 1 in 4 Americans are open to secession.

Point?

I'd probably vote yes for Michigan to secede if it came up for a vote. What y time do the polls open tomorrow in Scotland? - Page 2 2599972566

by **steveschneider** 2014-09-19, 11:48

LoneWolfSparty wrote:

Point?

I'd probably vote yes for Michigan to secede if it came up for a vote.

Why?

by LoneWolfSparty 2014-09-19, 11:57

steveschneider wrote:

Why?

Because the federal goverment has become exactly what the founders feared. I'd gladly pay the state what I am paying the feds for income tax and let that be spent locally.

by **Watch Out Pylon!** 2014-09-19, 11:58

LoneWolfSparty wrote:

Point?

I'd probably vote yes for Michigan to secede if it came up for a vote.

I too wish we could vote to instantly become a third world country.

by LoneWolfSparty 2014-09-19, 12:01

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:
I too wish we could vote to instantly become a third world country.

Detroit, Flint and Saginaw are there already.

by **Turtleneck** 2014-09-19, 13:20

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