Re: At Least 10 Dead at a Community College Shooting In Oregon..

[Code_Warrior]

Interesting connections.  A Tweet claiming to be from an ISIS account taking credit for the attack.  Alek Skarlatos is a student at that college and had classes scheduled in the building where the gunman made his attack.  Skarlatos was one of the guys who subdued the gunman on the train in France and wasn't in class that day because he agreed to do an interview on the Ellen Degeneres show.  Was the attack really an ISIS hit on Skarlatos?  Conspiracy theorists will no doubt run with this ball.  It will be interesting to see if more evidence supports that idea.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/10/02/oregon-college-shooting-french-train-hero-alek-skarlatos/73202860/

[Robert J Sakimano]

Interesting connections.  A Tweet claiming to be from an ISIS account taking credit for the attack.  Alek Skarlatos is a student at that college and had classes scheduled in the building where the gunman made his attack.  Skarlatos was one of the guys who subdued the gunman on the train in France and wasn't in class that day because he agreed to do an interview on the Ellen Degeneres show.  Was the attack really an ISIS hit on Skarlatos?  Conspiracy theorists will no doubt run with this ball.  It will be interesting to see if more evidence supports that idea.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/10/02/oregon-college-shooting-french-train-hero-alek-skarlatos/73202860/

yikes.. strangely bizarre.

[The_Dude]

Interesting connections.  A Tweet claiming to be from an ISIS account taking credit for the attack.  Alek Skarlatos is a student at that college and had classes scheduled in the building where the gunman made his attack.  Skarlatos was one of the guys who subdued the gunman on the train in France and wasn't in class that day because he agreed to do an interview on the Ellen Degeneres show.  Was the attack really an ISIS hit on Skarlatos?  Conspiracy theorists will no doubt run with this ball.  It will be interesting to see if more evidence supports that idea.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/10/02/oregon-college-shooting-french-train-hero-alek-skarlatos/73202860/

Well, the fact this particular community college was chosen...it wasn't a coincidence, I don't think.

[Herbie Green]

Or how about if his child was from one of the 32,000?  Does that mean he wouldn't count it?

Twist away all you want, the purpose of the author was to show that very few of the deaths involving a gun were murders using a legally obtained weapon.   In case you missed the point - that means that any gun laws you're passing will really be only targeting 850 of 32,000 deaths.   In other words if you want to attack the bigger part of the problem more gun laws aren't the place to start.

Most all of the guns were legally purchased at some point right?

I don't know what the solution is, but I am skeptical that it will come from aligning interest with the NRA whose primary purpose is to sell more guns.

[The_Dude]

Twist away all you want, the purpose of the author was to show that very few of the deaths involving a gun were murders using a legally obtained weapon.   In case you missed the point - that means that any gun laws you're passing will really be only targeting 850 of 32,000 deaths.   In other words if you want to attack the bigger part of the problem more gun laws aren't the place to start.

Most all of the guns were legally purchased at some point right?

.

Gah


You missed the point. The guns were obtained ILLEGALLY in 31,150 of the 32,000 murders.

It doesn't matter that the guns were purchased legally, the point is the criminals use illegal means to obtain guns...meaning you can pass more laws, and the criminal nutjobs will continue to not follow the laws.

Who knew murderers don't follow laws?

Even if we follow your logic, and ban all legal sales of guns, the criminals will still get them via black market, etc.

We have a major societal issue with world detachment. Technology is only furthering this hermit behavior.

[Robert J Sakimano]

yep - guns aren't the issue. Very rarely are guns actually used in the process of a shooting... and the times that they are.. liberal media.

[Travis of the Cosmos]

yep - guns aren't the issue. Very rarely are guns actually used in the process of a shooting... and the times that they are.. liberal media.

For fucks sake Bob it's a mental health issue. Why won't you just listen and understand that it is totally a mental health issue and has nothing to do with the gun

[Herbie Green]

yep - guns aren't the issue. Very rarely are guns actually used in the process of a shooting... and the times that they are.. liberal media.

Do we have any statistics of how many gun deaths did not involve guns?

[WhiteBoyHatcher]

Were the guns Adam Lanza used in the Newtown shooting deemed to have been obtained legally or illegally?

[Travis of the Cosmos]

Were the guns Adam Lanza used in the Newtown shooting deemed to have been obtained legally or illegally?

Legally. Well, I think they were his mom's. So if you consider him using the guns that his mom had at a house they share to be stealing them then not legally technically. But his mom bought them legally.

[WhiteBoyHatcher]

Were the guns Adam Lanza used in the Newtown shooting deemed to have been obtained legally or illegally?

Legally. Well, I think they were his mom's. So if you consider him using the guns that his mom had at a house they share to be stealing them then not legally technically. But his mom bought them legally.

Understood, but I am curious if they would be deemed "illegally" because he stole them from his mom. Not sure.

[kingstonlake]

mom a nutjob and dad nowhere to be found.  just like adam lanza.  

yep - another symptom of tragic events such as this is the fragmentation of the family unit, as I mentioned a few pages ago.

Making abortion illegal and forcing people to bear children they can't afford or have the means to support will definitely help the family units issues in that regard.

[Travis of the Cosmos]

Legally. Well, I think they were his mom's. So if you consider him using the guns that his mom had at a house they share to be stealing them then not legally technically. But his mom bought them legally.

Understood, but I am curious if they would be deemed "illegally" because he stole them from his mom. Not sure.

It probably depends on whose statistics you are looking at...

[Herbie Green]

Were the guns Adam Lanza used in the Newtown shooting deemed to have been obtained legally or illegally?

Pretty sure that would be illegally. Stolen.

[GRR Spartan]

Were the guns Adam Lanza used in the Newtown shooting deemed to have been obtained legally or illegally?

Pretty sure that would be illegally. Stolen.

No. The weapons Adam Lanza used were legally purchased by his mother including the gun he used to kill her prior to going to Sandy Hook Elementary. Lanza used his mother's credit card(s) to order ammunition on line.

There are some similarities between Sandy Hook and the shootings in Oregon. Both shooters had been diagnosed with issues that can cause people to be anti-social. Both attended schools with programs designed to address those issues. Both lived with their divorced mothers and both father's were not involved living a significant distance away.

Given the relatively small living quarters (an apartment) its difficult to imagine the mother in Oregon not being aware of the 12-13 weapons and ammunition her son had in their home unless she chose to ignore what he was doing. His father who still lives in LA is also wondering how his son got access to so many guns.

[WhiteBoyHatcher]

I think you're missing the point, GRR.

[CheesySpartan]

Pretty sure that would be illegally. Stolen.

No. The weapons Adam Lanza used were legally purchased by his mother including the gun he used to kill her prior to going to Sandy Hook Elementary. Lanza used his mother's credit card(s) to order ammunition on line.

There are some similarities between Sandy Hook and the shootings in Oregon. Both shooters had been diagnosed with issues that can cause people to be anti-social. Both attended schools with programs designed to address those issues. Both lived with their divorced mothers and both father's were not involved living a significant distance away.

Given the relatively small living quarters (an apartment) its difficult to imagine the mother in Oregon not being aware of the 12-13 weapons and ammunition her son had in their home unless she chose to ignore what he was doing. His father who still lives in LA is also wondering how his son got access to so many guns.

Maybe be involved in your child's life and you might know dumbass...

[GRR Spartan]

The point is if you have unstable family members its not a good idea to help them build self-esteem by making weapons readily available. We don't have any Federal laws requiring owners how to store their weapons.

I think its funny how we can get pulled over for a traffic violation and the Panasonic laptop in most patrol cars has access to all kinds of information about all of us but the gun dealers and people who sell guns at shows fight requiring registration at time of purchase that could be in a similar data base. Same goes for a data base for people who have personal protection orders sworn out against them.

Unlimited gun sales in states like VA have been supplying the illegal weapons business on the Eastern seaboard for decades.

Just don't buy the excuse of there are so many illegal weapons floating around we should sit and do nothing.

[Robert J Sakimano]

No.  The weapons Adam Lanza used were legally purchased by his mother including the gun he used to kill her prior to going to Sandy Hook Elementary.  Lanza used his mother's credit card(s) to order ammunition on line.

There are some similarities between Sandy Hook and the shootings in Oregon.  Both shooters  had been diagnosed with issues that can cause people to be anti-social.  Both attended schools with programs designed to address those issues.  Both lived with their divorced mothers and both father's were not involved living a significant distance away.

Given the relatively small living quarters (an apartment) its difficult to imagine the mother in Oregon not being aware of the 12-13 weapons and ammunition her son had in their home unless she chose to ignore what he was doing. His father who still lives in LA is also wondering how his son got access to so many guns.

Maybe be involved in your child's life and you might know dumbass...

yes - be involved in your child's life while not instilling a sense of paranoia and fear through the stockpiling of weapons.

This would definitely be a good start in building a healthy relationship.

[GRR Spartan]

I've never been divorced but if your former spouse chooses move 1000 miles away with your son who is over 18 and you are still working your oprions are limited.

I do know there are some divorces that are not pleasant and fathers are fought at every turn when it comes to children. There are times you can't be involved if the child moves a long distance away and refuses contact.

Bottom line is another troubled person diagnosed with Asperbergers who had demonstrated anti-social behavior and a parent who shared they gun hobby with their special needs children.

[Herbie Green]

Most all of the guns were legally purchased at some point right?

.

Gah


You missed the point. The guns were obtained ILLEGALLY in 31,150 of the 32,000 murders.

It doesn't matter that the guns were purchased legally, the point is the criminals use illegal means to obtain guns...meaning you can pass more laws, and the criminal nutjobs will continue to not follow the laws.

Who knew murderers don't follow laws?

Even if we follow your logic, and ban all legal sales of guns, the criminals will still get them via black market, etc.

We have a major societal issue with world detachment. Technology is only furthering this hermit behavior.

I actually mostly agree that nothing will significantly change with the supply so large and sophisticated.

But do you agree that the lax gun laws over the years is what has put us in this position? You can't really deny the relationship between gun ownership and gun deaths can you?
So now you are arguing for more guns to solve a problem that has been created by more guns. As is said, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

[The_Dude]

Gah


You missed the point. The guns were obtained ILLEGALLY in 31,150 of the 32,000 murders.

It doesn't matter that the guns were purchased legally, the point is the criminals use illegal means to obtain guns...meaning you can pass more laws, and the criminal nutjobs will continue to not follow the laws.

Who knew murderers don't follow laws?

Even if we follow your logic, and ban all legal sales of guns, the criminals will still get them via black market, etc.

We have a major societal issue with world detachment. Technology is only furthering this hermit behavior.

I actually mostly agree that nothing will significantly change with the supply so large and sophisticated.

But do you agree that the lax gun laws over the years is what has put us in this position? You can't really deny the relationship between gun ownership and gun deaths can you?
So now you are arguing for more guns to solve a problem that has been created by more guns. As is said, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

Not arguing for 'more guns.'

I think first and foremost longer waiting periods and mandatory background check (private seller to seller doesn't require one) is something most people can agree on.

But why does it seem like after most of these shooting, the red flags become obvious? Like, this guy had a long history of being a nutjob, his social media is crazy and his mother is a psycho.

But then again, free speech is protected and you cant round up everyone that appears to be crazy online.

The big question for me is how do we identify guys like this and get them the help they need BEFORE they act out and shoot people?

That is the tough question.

[Travis of the Cosmos]

I actually mostly agree that nothing will significantly change with the supply so large and sophisticated.

But do you agree that the lax gun laws over the years is what has put us in this position? You can't really deny the relationship between gun ownership and gun deaths can you?
So now you are arguing for more guns to solve a problem that has been created by more guns. As is said, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

Not arguing for 'more guns.'

I think first and foremost longer waiting periods and mandatory background check (private seller to seller doesn't require one) is something most people can agree on.

But why does it seem like after most of these shooting, the red flags become obvious? Like, this guy had a long history of being a nutjob, his social media is crazy and his mother is a psycho.

But then again, free speech is protected and you cant round up everyone that appears to be crazy online.

The big question for me is how do we identify guys like this and get them the help they need BEFORE they act out and shoot people?

That is the tough question.

You know that link that I posted 2 hours ago from Friday that showed that we cut mental health funding in Lansing by a bunch? You start by not doing that. Then you go from there.

[I.B. Fine]

Legally. Well, I think they were his mom's. So if you consider him using the guns that his mom had at a house they share to be stealing them then not legally technically. But his mom bought them legally.

Understood, but I am curious if they would be deemed "illegally" because he stole them from his mom. Not sure.

It would have been difficult for her to give consent for him leaving the house with her guns once he killed her, so I'm going with illegally obtained.

[Robert J Sakimano]

I'd like to point out once again that the {ahem} very concerned gun enthusiasts who have determined that mental health is paramount in tragic situations such as mass shootings are almost always the exact same people opposed to funding mental health..

[Brock Middlebrook]

You people do realize that (in Michigan, at least) you can't just walk into a store, plop down some cash, and walk out a few minutes later with a gun, right...?

How to legally purchase a gun in MI: http://www.wikihow.com/Buy-a-Firearm-in-Michigan

[Robert J Sakimano]

You people do realize that (in Michigan, at least) you can't just walk into a store, plop down some cash, and walk out a few minutes later with a gun, right...?

How to legally purchase a gun in MI: http://www.wikihow.com/Buy-a-Firearm-in-Michigan

I can't count very well but it looks like there are 32 states in which you can go to a gun show and walk out with a weapon - no background check required.

States Where Proud Patriots Can Purchase Guns With No Background Check

[Other Teams Pursuing That]

I went to a gun show with my friend and it seemed like he just walked around and finally decided on one - bought it, walked out of the place. Seemed simple. Did he have a BG check done? I think he gave them his info at least..

[Robert J Sakimano]

Ben Carson blames the victims by saying "I would not just stand there and let him shoot me"..

Thanks, Ben - Your Check  From the NRA Is On Its Way

the esteemed patriot also went on to say this:

Carson said there was "no doubt that this senseless violence is breathtaking" but added that he "never saw a body with bullet holes that was more devastating than taking the right to arm ourselves away. "

oh - and for those keeping score - I'm pretty sure he calls himself "pro-life"..

[Brock Middlebrook]

Ben Carson blames the victims by saying "I would not just stand there and let him shoot me"..

Thanks, Ben - Your Check  From the NRA Is On Its Way

the esteemed patriot also went on to say this:

Carson said there was "no doubt that this senseless violence is breathtaking" but added that he "never saw a body with bullet holes that was more devastating than taking the right to arm ourselves away. "

oh - and for those keeping score - I'm pretty sure he calls himself "pro-life"..

The right to bear arms is not the cause of these school/church shootings.

[Robert J Sakimano]

Ben Carson blames the victims by saying "I would not just stand there and let him shoot me"..

Thanks, Ben - Your Check  From the NRA Is On Its Way

the esteemed patriot also went on to say this:



oh - and for those keeping score - I'm pretty sure he calls himself "pro-life"..

The right to bear arms is not the cause of these school/church shootings.

good point - I have yet to see a shooting that has involved a gun.

[Brock Middlebrook]

The right to bear arms is not the cause of these school/church shootings.

good point - I have yet to see a shooting that has involved a gun.

So, we should make gun ownership illegal in the U.S.?

[The_Dude]

good point - I have yet to see a shooting that has involved a gun.

So, we should make gun ownership illegal in the U.S.?

I think you know Bob's stance on that.

[The_Dude]

Ben Carson blames the victims by saying "I would not just stand there and let him shoot me"..

Thanks, Ben - Your Check  From the NRA Is On Its Way

the esteemed patriot also went on to say this:

Carson said there was "no doubt that this senseless violence is breathtaking" but added that he "never saw a body with bullet holes that was more devastating than taking the right to arm ourselves away. "

oh - and for those keeping score - I'm pretty sure he calls himself "pro-life"..

Whats wrong with what he said? He's absolutely true. If everybody attacked the guy at once, less people would have died. Instead of just standing around in a group, waiting your turn to die, everyone rush the guy at once. It was only one guy.

[Brock Middlebrook]

So, we should make gun ownership illegal in the U.S.?

I think you know Bob's stance on that.

No, I don't think he's ever flat out stated that. It's a serious question.

[GRR Spartan]

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Sooo, can anyone fill me in on membership status in a well regulated militia for any of these shooters?

[Robert J Sakimano]

So, we should make gun ownership illegal in the U.S.?

I think you know Bob's stance on that.

[Robert J Sakimano]

I think you know Bob's stance on that.

No, I don't think he's ever flat out stated that. It's a serious question.

okay, fair enough.

No - I don't think gun ownership should be illegal in the U.S.

[Giant Moose]

No - I don't think gun ownership should be illegal in the U.S.

Bob supports guns.

[Robert J Sakimano]

No - I don't think gun ownership should be illegal in the U.S.

Bob supports guns.

I just don't want one in my house or around my family..

yeah, I know.. perteckt.

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