Sorry for the new topic: Debate last night. My Daughter comes downstairs and says "Honestly dad, these guys are embarrassing"

Got to get this off my chest. She's 15 years old. Fairly interested in this election. Thinks she's a socialist, but is happy her dad makes a living. I'm pleased she's watching the shit on t.v., and I'm encouraging her thoughts on it. But seriously, my first vote was in the Jimmy Carter Ronald Reagan election. I voted at MSU. I watched debates and there were some great zingers and points made. However, this is beyond fucked up. These guys are ass clowns. They're like me and you and I don't wNt them to be. I want them to be presidential. Kaisich seemed the most presidential last night.

I think about debates between Carter and Reagan, Mondale and Reagan, Bush and Dukakis, Clinton Bush, and the vice presidents and then I compare them to the last two Republican debates and man, these guys are fucked up. Biggest insult Reagan ever threw at Carter was insisting on calling him "Govenor Carter" instead of President Carter. I've heard more personal insults then policy answers. Fox took it's revenge on Trump last night. It' wasn't masked either. Did they have pie charts and slide shows ready for Rubio or Cruiz? Why just Trump.

Sorry guys, I just don't like where the country seems to be going. We fucking hate each other. It bothers the shit out of me.

Not to rain on the "everything was better in my day" parade or to defend those numbskulls that were on stage last night, but comparing them to the primary debates of those years would be an apples to apples comparison. Primary debates do not equal the debates the month before the election.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Not to rain on the "everything was better in my day" parade or to defend those numbskulls that were on stage last night, but comparing them to the primary debates of those years would be an apples to apples comparison. Primary debates do not equal the debates the month before the election.

Fair enough, lets watch a clip of the Republican Primary between Reagan and Bush. What do you think? Here's the same topic: Illegal Aliens from Mexico

DWags wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Not to rain on the "everything was better in my day" parade or to defend those numbskulls that were on stage last night, but comparing them to the primary debates of those years would be an apples to apples comparison. Primary debates do not equal the debates the month before the election.

Fair enough, lets watch a clip of the Republican Primary between Reagan and Bush. What do you think? Here's the same topic: Illegal Aliens from Mexico

Why do republicans have such a hard on about immigration is what I get out of that.

If you have time, here's the whole debate.  Look, I'm not coming down on policy here, I don't care to stir that up.  My point is the civility to each other.  Where has it gone?  Maybe I'm old and fucked inthe head, probably am.   I'm not saying it's "Better back then", but it was different.  Maybe many guys think last night was better than it was in 80.  Who knows.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

DWags wrote:

Fair enough, lets watch a clip of the Republican Primary between Reagan and Bush. What do you think? Here's the same topic: Illegal Aliens from Mexico

Why do republicans have such a hard on about immigration is what I get out of that.

I guess my greater point is, how they act towards each other. Not too many interuptions of each other and definitely not the name calling.

Bernie does not toss insults

DWags wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Why do republicans have such a hard on about immigration is what I get out of that.

I guess my greater point is, how they act towards each other.  Not too many interuptions of each other and definitely not the name calling.  

While I think your point is valid:

1) It is probably not fair to compare a two person debate with a four person debate.
2) Trump should be considered an outlier for comparison purposes.
3) TV has itself changed.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Bernie does not toss insults

Bernie does not get the nomination either.

MSU addict wrote:

DWags wrote:

I guess my greater point is, how they act towards each other.  Not too many interuptions of each other and definitely not the name calling.  

While I think your point is valid:

1) It is probably not fair to compare a two person debate with a four person debate.
2) Trump should be considered an outlier for comparison purposes.
3) TV has itself changed.

3 is definitely true. Kasich is barely on screen because actually talking about issues isn't what gets ratings.

Did Ted Cruz eat a booger last night?

http://usuncut.com/news/ted-cruz-ate-a-booger-oh-my-god/

MSU addict wrote:

DWags wrote:

I guess my greater point is, how they act towards each other.  Not too many interuptions of each other and definitely not the name calling.  

While I think your point is valid:

1) It is probably not fair to compare a two person debate with a four person debate.
2) Trump should be considered an outlier for comparison purposes.
3) TV has itself changed.

Agree with all of that. But for #3, has it changed for the better or worse? Us old timers will tell you it's worse. I know plenty of kids who say that it's much better than the Reagan/Bush debate I have posted.

DWags wrote:

MSU addict wrote:
While I think your point is valid:

1) It is probably not fair to compare a two person debate with a four person debate.
2) Trump should be considered an outlier for comparison purposes.
3) TV has itself changed.

Agree with all of that.  But for #3, has it changed for the better or worse? Us old timers will tell you it's worse.  I know plenty of kids who say that it's much better than the Reagan/Bush debate I have posted.  

I think most everyone would say worse.

Except for people dumb enough to support trump. They are the ones that think it's better. Rational people that actually like stimulating conversation and don't regularly watch Jerry springer would say worse. Unfortunately, there's like a lot of those trump supporting springer watching people as it turns out.

DWags wrote:

MSU addict wrote:
While I think your point is valid:

1) It is probably not fair to compare a two person debate with a four person debate.
2) Trump should be considered an outlier for comparison purposes.
3) TV has itself changed.

Agree with all of that. But for #3, has it changed for the better or worse? Us old timers will tell you it's worse. I know plenty of kids who say that it's much better than the Reagan/Bush debate I have posted.

Viewing options are definitely better than back in the old three channel days. News reporting, though, has gotten a whole lot worse. Thanks a lot, Fox News. When news channels started with political biases things have spiraled downward ever since.

Personally, I like them being more like human beings instead of sanitized robots.

And we forget that during the founding fathers era they used to duel each other, so last night was very tame compared to that.

Turtleneck wrote:Did Ted Cruz eat a booger last night?

http://usuncut.com/news/ted-cruz-ate-a-booger-oh-my-god/

I noticed that during the debate, looked like a stray piece of styrofoam on the TeeVee.......

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

DWags wrote:

Agree with all of that.  But for #3, has it changed for the better or worse? Us old timers will tell you it's worse.  I know plenty of kids who say that it's much better than the Reagan/Bush debate I have posted.  

Viewing options are definitely better than back in the old three channel days. News reporting, though, has gotten a whole lot worse. Thanks a lot, Fox News. When news channels started with political biases things have spiraled downward ever since.

LOL, I love how you blame FOX.    MSNBC was/is much more biased than Fox.   CBS & NBC have been biased for 40 years.   And who can forget Peter Jennings at ABC in 1994?   He called the voters giving the R's control of the US House for the 1st time in 40 years a "tantrum" - yep no bias there.

When you're going to start accusing others of bias, you might try being aware of your own.

Giant Moose wrote:Personally, I like them being more like human beings instead of sanitized robots.

And we forget that during the founding fathers era they used to duel each other, so last night was very tame compared to that.

See, this is where the divide comes and these are points well made for the generations below mine. I know there are a ton of you younger guys who believe in this vs. the type of debate Reagan Bush had. It's the real world today. However, I'd caution that the real world back then, was more like Reagan/Bush. And they did get upset with each other sometimes.

While I do realize it is a generational thing, and I'm not right, and each generation will have their own opinion of what is right and wrong in regards to them, what took me by surprise was my 15 year old telling me she thought it was a bit over the top. That's why I even started this thread.

LooseGoose wrote:

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

Viewing options are definitely better than back in the old three channel days. News reporting, though, has gotten a whole lot worse. Thanks a lot, Fox News. When news channels started with political biases things have spiraled downward ever since.

LOL, I love how you blame FOX.    MSNBC was/is much more biased than Fox.   CBS & NBC have been biased for 40 years.   And who can forget Peter Jennings at ABC in 1994?   He called the voters giving the R's control of the US House for the 1st time in 40 years a "tantrum" - yep no bias there.

When you're going to start accusing others of bias, you might try being aware of your own.

What's your opinion of them putting up the pie chart for Trump and having slides prepared for him and not the others? Did Fox give Trump a big "fuck you" vs. the others? Was that the right thing to do?

LooseGoose wrote:

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

Viewing options are definitely better than back in the old three channel days. News reporting, though, has gotten a whole lot worse. Thanks a lot, Fox News. When news channels started with political biases things have spiraled downward ever since.

LOL, I love how you blame FOX.    MSNBC was/is much more biased than Fox.   CBS & NBC have been biased for 40 years.   And who can forget Peter Jennings at ABC in 1994?   He called the voters giving the R's control of the US House for the 1st time in 40 years a "tantrum" - yep no bias there.

When you're going to start accusing others of bias, you might try being aware of your own.

I was expecting this response from you. Thanks for not disappointing.

Did a little research, MSNBC started about the same time as Fox News, so throw them into the mix as well. I thought they were around later on. Anyway, they all fucking suck now. I don't give a rats ass what side they root for.

DWags wrote:

Giant Moose wrote:Personally, I like them being more like human beings instead of sanitized robots.

And we forget that during the founding fathers era they used to duel each other, so last night was very tame compared to that.

See, this is where the divide comes and these are points well made for the generations below mine. I know there are a ton of you younger guys who believe in this vs. the type of debate Reagan Bush had. It's the real world today. However, I'd caution that the real world back then, was more like Reagan/Bush. And they did get upset with each other sometimes.

While I do realize it is a generational thing, and I'm not right, and each generation will have their own opinion of what is right and wrong in regards to them, what took me by surprise was my 15 year old telling me she thought it was a bit over the top. That's why I even started this thread.

I don't think it's a generational thing. Like, at all. It's that there are a whole bunch of idiots. And they are more vocal and have the ability to get their idiotic message out more than they used to. Remember that 50% of the country is of below average intelligence and average isn't very smart to begin with. Before you never got to hear from them. Now they all have phones and internets and such so they're "I want the candidates to kick each other in the balls and whoever loses will not be the nominee" message is getting out there.

The news channels have become like ESPN covering sports. Watch for the event and turn off when the event is over.

If by generational you meant "young people like this stuff" then Floyd just posted something interesting in that other thread. Young people like Kasich. The not lunatic.

Like I said, it's just idiots and there are a lot of them.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

DWags wrote:

See, this is where the divide comes and these are points well made for the generations below mine. I know there are a ton of you younger guys who believe in this vs. the type of debate Reagan Bush had. It's the real world today. However, I'd caution that the real world back then, was more like Reagan/Bush. And they did get upset with each other sometimes.

While I do realize it is a generational thing, and I'm not right, and each generation will have their own opinion of what is right and wrong in regards to them, what took me by surprise was my 15 year old telling me she thought it was a bit over the top. That's why I even started this thread.

I don't think it's a generational thing. Like, at all. It's that there are a whole bunch of idiots. And they are more vocal and have the ability to get their idiotic message out more than they used to. Remember that 50% of the country is of below average intelligence and average isn't very smart to begin with. Before you never got to hear from them. Now they all have phones and internets and such so they're "I want the candidates to kick each other in the balls and whoever loses will not be the nominee" message is getting out there.

The country has always had idiots. People loved Burr and Hamilton going at it way back when.

I think Trump appeals to people who hate the sanitized robot, special-interest politician. However, he himself is a special-interest but it's difficult for the average person to see that because he does act human and that resonates.

I am like many who want something different than canned party-line rhetoric.

Giant Moose wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

I don't think it's a generational thing. Like, at all. It's that there are a whole bunch of idiots. And they are more vocal and have the ability to get their idiotic message out more than they used to. Remember that 50% of the country is of below average intelligence and average isn't very smart to begin with. Before you never got to hear from them. Now they all have phones and internets and such so they're "I want the candidates to kick each other in the balls and whoever loses will not be the nominee" message is getting out there.

The country has always had idiots. People loved Burr and Hamilton going at it way back when.

I think Trump appeals to people who hate the sanitized robot, special-interest politician. However, he himself is a special-interest but it's difficult for the average person to see that because he does act human and that resonates.

I am like many who want something different than canned party-line rhetoric.

I know. I addressed that in the post. The idiots now have a microphone. They didn't before.

Also, loved the Detroit audience in the background. Guy was dabbing, they were waving to the cameras like they were at a ball game.

I was kind of hoping that Trump and Rubio would whip out there junk or at least challenge each other to do it. A sword fight might have reached the pinnacle of twenty-first century TV.

DWags wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

LOL, I love how you blame FOX.    MSNBC was/is much more biased than Fox.   CBS & NBC have been biased for 40 years.   And who can forget Peter Jennings at ABC in 1994?   He called the voters giving the R's control of the US House for the 1st time in 40 years a "tantrum" - yep no bias there.

When you're going to start accusing others of bias, you might try being aware of your own.

What's your opinion of them putting up the pie chart for Trump and having slides prepared for him and not the others? Did Fox give Trump a big "fuck you" vs. the others? Was that the right thing to do?

Go read the FoxNews twitter account - jeezus it's like a Trump PR wire. ALL of the networks have conspired to create Trump. No fucking wonder he can self fund - he's getting 10's of millions of $$'s in free air time.



The Cable networks are worse than that.

I do like that Twitter has empowered more people than ever to let their voices be heard even if their viewpoints can be idiotic.

This country desperately needs more options than the 2-party system to reflect our society better, and if Trump and Twitter can be catalysts for that, then that is great in my opinion.

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

LOL, I love how you blame FOX.    MSNBC was/is much more biased than Fox.   CBS & NBC have been biased for 40 years.   And who can forget Peter Jennings at ABC in 1994?   He called the voters giving the R's control of the US House for the 1st time in 40 years a "tantrum" - yep no bias there.

When you're going to start accusing others of bias, you might try being aware of your own.

I was expecting this response from you. Thanks for not disappointing.

Did a little research, MSNBC started about the same time as Fox News, so throw them into the mix as well. I thought they were around later on. Anyway, they all fucking suck now. I don't give a rats ass what side they root for.

Good to know you were expecting it, missed where you pointed out I was in error.

LooseGoose wrote:

DWags wrote:

What's your opinion of them putting up the pie chart for Trump and having slides prepared for him and not the others? Did Fox give Trump a big "fuck you" vs. the others? Was that the right thing to do?

Go read the FoxNews twitter account - jeezus it's like a Trump PR wire. ALL of the networks have conspired to create Trump. No fucking wonder he can self fund - he's getting 10's of millions of $$'s in free air time.



The Cable networks are worse than that.

Why do you hate capitalism so much, Loose?

Waggers, I agree with you. I want to see Drumpf taken down as much as anyone, but when the establishment, including the mouthpiece of the party Roger Ailes line up against someone and go so far as to bait him into coming on their network and then snipe the fuck out of him, it makes HIM look like the victim, and it makes his rambling incoherent moronic ideas gain a little merit. If the party wants you out so bad that they are not even trying to hide it and have their news channel blatantly sabotaging you, maybe you're on to something.

Turtleneck wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

Go read the FoxNews twitter account - jeezus it's like a Trump PR wire. ALL of the networks have conspired to create Trump. No fucking wonder he can self fund - he's getting 10's of millions of $$'s in free air time.



The Cable networks are worse than that.

Why do you hate capitalism so much, Loose?

I love capitalism, communism and socialism - I can't stand blowhards like Trump.

Rocinante wrote:Waggers, I agree with you. I want to see Drumpf taken down as much as anyone, but when the establishment, including the mouthpiece of the party Roger Ailes line up against someone and go so far as to bait him into coming on their network and then snipe the fuck out of him, it makes HIM look like the victim, and it makes his rambling incoherent moronic ideas gain a little merit. If the party wants you out so bad that they are not even trying to hide it and have their news channel blatantly sabotaging you, maybe you're on to something.

lol, O'Reilly - Hannity - VanSusteren have all been sucking Trump's ass for months. Fox has not been against Trump, that's just completely silly.

LooseGoose wrote:

Rocinante wrote:Waggers, I agree with you. I want to see Drumpf taken down as much as anyone, but when the establishment, including the mouthpiece of the party Roger Ailes line up against someone and go so far as to bait him into coming on their network and then snipe the fuck out of him, it makes HIM look like the victim, and it makes his rambling incoherent moronic ideas gain a little merit. If the party wants you out so bad that they are not even trying to hide it and have their news channel blatantly sabotaging you, maybe you're on to something.

lol, O'Reilly - Hannity - VanSusteren have all been sucking Trump's ass for months. Fox has not been against Trump, that's just completely silly.

Wrong. Trump is ratings. Programs have their own producers and content editors. They decide somewhat independently what they will say and run with. That's the business side. Ailes is a GOP stalwart and finally the need for the establishment to stay in power outweighed the ratings bonanza they're all enjoying. Open your eyes man.

DWags wrote:

Giant Moose wrote:Personally, I like them being more like human beings instead of sanitized robots.

And we forget that during the founding fathers era they used to duel each other, so last night was very tame compared to that.

See, this is where the divide comes and these are points well made for the generations below mine. I know there are a ton of you younger guys who believe in this vs. the type of debate Reagan Bush had. It's the real world today. However, I'd caution that the real world back then, was more like Reagan/Bush. And they did get upset with each other sometimes.

While I do realize it is a generational thing, and I'm not right, and each generation will have their own opinion of what is right and wrong in regards to them, what took me by surprise was my 15 year old telling me she thought it was a bit over the top. That's why I even started this thread.

Remember Dole telling Bush, "Stop lying about my record"? I remember it like it was yesterday - thought Dole was going to come through the camera.

I agree with Moose. Now let me preface that I am in no way, shape or form a fan of Donald Trumps. Just never cared for him and nothing for nothing but his book Art Of The Deal sucks.

However, having said that, I can clearly see his appeal with people who either normally don't participate in politics but lean right because they've been turned off of the process because of people like Clinton, Rubio, Cruz, Bush, Obama, Kerry, etc.

It'd just be nice if we could combine having big brass balls and being a tough guy (I use that term loosely in this context because I don't believe there are any 'tough' politicians... Maybe one or two) while also being halfway competent in the mental department.

I guess that's unfair. Trump certainly inherited more than most of us will see in a lifetime, but a lot of people do and a lot of people have ambitions and aspirations but Trump has taken the privileges he had and went further than most do. The guy is an idiot, but he deserves some credit for the brand he's built for himself.

LooseGoose wrote:

Rocinante wrote:Waggers, I agree with you. I want to see Drumpf taken down as much as anyone, but when the establishment, including the mouthpiece of the party Roger Ailes line up against someone and go so far as to bait him into coming on their network and then snipe the fuck out of him, it makes HIM look like the victim, and it makes his rambling incoherent moronic ideas gain a little merit. If the party wants you out so bad that they are not even trying to hide it and have their news channel blatantly sabotaging you, maybe you're on to something.

lol, O'Reilly - Hannity - VanSusteren have all been sucking Trump's ass for months. Fox has not been against Trump, that's just completely silly.

Certainly didn't look that way to me last night.

Whats embarrassing are politicians that lie and steal from you, yet you line up like Kevin Bacon in Animal House and say may I have another. Politicians are ALL talk and no action. Spineless for the most part.

Millions upons millions of Americans want wholesale change, not to elect another lifelong political hack like Hilary. Trump is that change. No one cares that he said an icky word and can be abrasive. People care about jobs and security.

Its funny watching the RNC try to nominate another 'high character guy' only to get slaughtered in the general again. If they would rally around Trump, he'd win the general and possibly in a landslide.