Re: tOfficial Furman Thread

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2016-09-04, 22:32

I'm sure there's some truth to that. They didn't show stuff they've been working on. But there's more to it than that.

But let's also be honest....there were some horribly untimely penalties that killed drives and/or kept the ball in Furman's hands. Despite the issues with TOC's performance, we probably put up 35-40 without those penalties and a lot of the concerns are not really as magnified.

by **Turtleneck** 2016-09-04, 22:33

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I'm sure there's some truth to that. They didn't show stuff they've been working on. But there's more to it than that.

But let's also be honest....there were some horribly untimely penalties that killed drives and/or kept the ball in Furman's hands. Despite the issues with TOC's performance, we probably put up 35-40 without those penalties and a lot of the concerns are not really as magnified.

The new single wing offense.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2016-09-04, 22:36

Yes, there's that TN.

I want to watch a bit more of the replay at some point this weekend. I want to see if the line issues I saw early on when re-watching persisted. If they iron out some of those communication/assignment issues I think it will do a lot to allay issues.

by **Nordic** 2016-09-04, 22:39

Herbie Green wrote:I think it is more along the lines of "if I have to explain the joke it probably isn't very funny"
In this case this joke was intended for Pylon only who called me an idiot in the ND thread for not understanding MSU's vanilla playbook approach.

I got the "joke"

by **Watch Out Pylon!** 2016-09-04, 23:00

Herbie Green wrote:I think it is more along the lines of "if I have to explain the joke it probably isn't very funny"
In this case this joke was intended for Pylon only who called me an idiot in the ND thread for not understanding MSU's vanilla playbook approach.

Quit stalking me weirdo.

by **InTenSity** 2016-09-04, 23:24

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:
Herbie Green wrote:I think it is more along the lines of "if I have to explain the joke it probably isn't very funny"
In this case this joke was intended for Pylon only who called me an idiot in the ND thread for not understanding MSU's vanilla playbook approach.

Quit stalking me weirdo.

Can I stalk you? I'm not good at it, but willing to give it a try.

by **Watch Out Pylon!** 2016-09-04, 23:59

InTenSity wrote:
Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

Quit stalking me weirdo.
Can I stalk you? I'm not good at it, but willing to give it a try.

You're not a spazz. I'll allow it.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2016-09-05, 00:26

InTenSity wrote:
Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

Quit stalking me weirdo.
Can I stalk you? I'm not good at it, but willing to give it a try.

Can you stalk me instead? I'm a better stalkee than pylon.

by **Turtleneck** 2016-09-05, 00:27

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
InTenSity wrote:
Can I stalk you? I'm not good at it, but willing to give it a try.

Can you stalk me instead? I'm a better stalkee than pylon.

Plus you probably have a lot of experience as a stalker, so you can give him pointers and stuff.

#CHITCHAT

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2016-09-05, 00:29

Turtleneck wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Can you stalk me instead? I'm a better stalkee than pylon.

Plus you probably have a lot of experience as a stalker, so you can give him pointers and stuff.

#CHITCHAT

You can pretend that that's the middle finger emoji

by **Turtleneck** 2016-09-05, 00:30

by Herbie Green 2016-09-05, 09:54

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:
Herbie Green wrote:I think it is more along the lines of "if I have to explain the joke it probably isn't very funny"
In this case this joke was intended for Pylon only who called me an idiot in the ND thread for not understanding MSU's vanilla playbook approach.

Quit stalking me weirdo.

Yeah, lol. I barely know who the hell you are despite i think you have followed me around for two years calling me a "pussy" an "idiot", etc. .

If you want to stop responding to my posts believe me that would be a perfectly acceptable arrangement that I will reciprocate. I have generally ignored all of your posts to begin with and only responded to this latest juvenile name calling effort because you added in some football stupidity.

by **Watch Out Pylon!** 2016-09-05, 10:22

Herbie Green wrote:
Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

Quit stalking me weirdo.

Yeah, lol. I barely know who the hell you are despite i think you have followed me around for two years calling me a "pussy" an "idiot", etc. .

If you want to stop responding to my posts believe me that would be a perfectly acceptable arrangement that I will reciprocate. I have generally ignored all of your posts to begin with and only responded to this latest juvenile name calling effort because you added in some football stupidity.

Sounds like you can't stop thinking about me. Rent free Herbs. Rent free.

by **Turtleneck** 2016-09-05, 10:42

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:
Herbie Green wrote:

Yeah, lol. I barely know who the hell you are despite i think you have followed me around for two years calling me a "pussy" an "idiot", etc. .

If you want to stop responding to my posts believe me that would be a perfectly acceptable arrangement that I will reciprocate. I have generally ignored all of your posts to begin with and only responded to this latest juvenile name calling effort because you added in some football stupidity.

Sounds like you can't stop thinking about me. Rent free Herbs. Rent free.

Herbs and Pylon #chitchat!

by **Watch Out Pylon!** 2016-09-05, 10:50

Turtleneck wrote:
Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

Sounds like you can't stop thinking about me. Rent free Herbs. Rent free.

Herbs and Pylon #chitchat!

Where's my premium poster check?

by **Turtleneck** 2016-09-05, 11:29

Only the admins, members of the Co9, and Nigel get profit sharing checks.

by **Nordic** 2016-09-05, 15:07

Game replay. Not sure how this site gets away with it, but they have replays of every game.

http://noonkick.com/2016-michigan-state-vs-furman/

by **Rocinante** 2016-09-05, 15:11

Nordic wrote:Game replay. Not sure how this site gets away with it, but they have replays of every game.

http://noonkick.com/2016-michigan-state-vs-furman/

Nice thanks. LJ Scott is a monster early.

by **Rocinante** 2016-09-05, 15:14

Jesus... students dressed as Super Mario Brothers characters. Fuck. them.

by **SeeRockCity** 2016-09-05, 15:20

Nordic wrote:Game replay. Not sure how this site gets away with it, but they have replays of every game.

http://noonkick.com/2016-michigan-state-vs-furman/

You can also watch the "tight cut" here (same guys who did the qb breakdown):

by **Rocinante** 2016-09-05, 15:30

Brian Allen not looking as good as he's supposed to be.

by **Rocinante** 2016-09-05, 15:44

Oconnor holds on to the ball way to long. The secondary looked lost a lot. The D-line could not penetrate. Oconnor needs to stop trying to run or he'll get his ass crushed in future games.

meh.

by **DWags** 2016-09-05, 16:05

Rocinante wrote:Oconnor holds on to the ball way to long. The secondary looked lost a lot. The D-line could not penetrate. Oconnor needs to stop trying to run or he'll get his ass crushed in future games.

meh.

I'll preface this with my situation is no where near this level. I was a starting running back but second string QB. Took snaps near the end of practice three guys ran square outs and posts and I threw it to them did a couple hand offs and that was good. Well one game I had to take over. I still have the grainy film. On a couple roll outs my receiver was so open it was funny. Yet I kept rolling out for four steps or so then threw it to him. WTF? No idea why I hung on to it when I saw him open. Also, when I'd drop straight back, holy fuck did it seem chaotic. Loud, couldn't find Windows everything happened fast. Much easier running the ball. The starter told me it slows down after a game or two. I never had to find out. Hope it does for TOC.

by **Nordic** 2016-09-05, 16:24

Through the first half O...

Drive 1 – Two jet action plays & another that motioned LJ out of the backfield. I know a lot of dumbasses on this board hate the jet sweep, but the Jet Action sets up a lot of our offense (see every TD in the Michigan & OSU games), including a power LJ run for 9 yards on that drive. Only pass was a bubble, which we ran a lot with Cousins but seemed to do less with Cook. Great spot to run the bubble with the corners playing way off. I’m happy to see it’s return. Run blocking was good to excellent. 64 Clemons had a really nice pull on the RJ Jet Sweep. 45 Zach Line had 3-4 very good blocks on that drive. Really liked Line on that drive. I would not call that drive vanilla with the Jet Action.

Drive 2 – First play the Left side of the OL got blown up and didn’t pick up the corner/LB blitz (Price didn’t seal the corner). Second play a pretty basic 3 vert and TE drag… guessing the play was supposed to go to Price but O’Conner was pressured and sacked. Next play 3 verts, incomplete over the middle. Yes, that is what I would call pretty vanilla pass plays. OL blocking was suspect on 1st and 2nd down.

Driver 3 – Pretty much the same as Drive 2 in the passing game 3 or 4 verticals, no mesh/rubs, no motion, no combo/snag routes… prettu fucking vanilla. Run blocking again was solid, a lot of multiple pulling lineman, including a student body toss sweep. Though LJ didn’t take advantage of good blocking on that driver.

Tendency note: Motion is still a run almost every time. This goes back to last year. Not very much pre-set shifts, which we usually do a lot. I would suspect this was by design.

Drive 4 – Opened with a nice combo route (hard to say because of the camera angle) and completion to FDIII. Mardre gets tripped on the 2nd play that probably should have been a TD. Again, lots of multiple pulling guards/tackles on the run plays. Drive killed by a Price penalty.

Drive 5 – First play action passes of the game (I think) and results in 3 big gains. Also ran more combo/snag routes instead of pure verts. Price holding kills the drive. He had a rough game blocking. Very much less vanilla in the passing game than drivers 2 & 3. But Price killed two drives in a row.

Drive 6 – Pound green pound, play action combo/snag pass fro a big gain, good bubble screen… run blocking was good, pass concepts were good, great drive, TD.

O’Conner Note: Looked a lot better than I thought he did live.

1st Half TL;DR: Drives 1 & 6 were dominating drives by the OL and not at all vanilla in concept. Not surprisingly resulted in TDs. Drivers 2 & 3 were garbage vanilla ice cream with vanilla toppings. You could see a shift in the passing game starting in Drive 4 and even more so in Drive 5, but both were killed by Price. Run blocking was very good IMO, not sure what everyone is beyotching about. A lot more multiple lineman pulling than I recall in the past.

by **Nordic** 2016-09-05, 16:34

SeeRockCity wrote:
Nordic wrote:Game replay. Not sure how this site gets away with it, but they have replays of every game.

http://noonkick.com/2016-michigan-state-vs-furman/

You can also watch the "tight cut" here (same guys who did the qb breakdown):

Thanks, much better.

Not really paying much attention to the D... but Cox had a big game. Saved at least two TDs.

by **Nordic** 2016-09-05, 16:49

2nd half Offense, not many possessions...

Drive 7 – Jets Sweep fumble by Stewart

Drive 8 – Another good bubble screen for a big game. Play action pass, TD. Again, O’Conner got the ball out quicker than I remember live.

Drive 9 – Opened with 3 straight dominate runs/run blocking. FDIII personal foul followed by O’Connor radar lock INT.

Drive 10 - Play action awful pass by O’Conner followed by some solid runs and a Jet Sweep. Pounded all the way to the five then Lyles called for a hold… looked like a bad call. Jet (Play) Action TD to Lyles right after.

Overall TL;DR: Two drives killed by Price holds, 1 killed by O’Conner TD, I killed by a missed exchange on the Jet and 2 killed by Warner play calling. O’Connor was better than I thought. I’m not sure where the outrage on the OL is. I can only recall one negative rushing play and maybe a couple others where we didn’t get a good push (yes we are supposed to against Furman, but peeps are talking like they were in our backfield all day). LJ is a beast, Madre was pretty Meh. Monty and Corley looked really good. Price had an awful game on the penalties and blocking in general. Overall, better on replay than live.

by Guest 2016-09-05, 19:29

Spartan Football ‏@MSU_Football 16m16 minutes ago
With 49% of the vote, the @Delta Player of the Game is Andrew Dowell, who had 8 tackles and a key INT vs. Furman.
tOfficial Furman Thread - Page 7 CroEK9FWgAAtA6w

tOfficial Furman Thread - Page 7 CroEK9FWgAAtA6w

by **Nordic** 2016-09-05, 21:21

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Erf. I'm not watching this whole thing right now but I watched a bit. Hope TOC can improve.

Just watched and agree on the main points...

Radar locked on his 1st target.

A little late on delivery... thought he was a tad overly critical here

Extremely accurate and throws a reallly good ball.

Love that the bubble screen is back.

In the stands the first two really stood out to me. Watching the replay I appreciate more just how nice of a ball he throws. Small sample size so we'll see. But it is harder to fix accuracy than the other issues, so I'm more encouraged than I was Friday night.

by **By-Tor** 2016-09-05, 22:21

Ok- I watched the kids breakdown of TOC and he was being super critical/stupid at times. He knocks TOC for locking in on a receiver who was wide open on a 3 step drop on 3rd and 6. Not exactly the time to scour the field for option 3. I thought TOC played pretty well. The Price int and the time he didn't spot a wide open Corley were not good plays and most of the stadium knew he missed Corley but hey that kind of stuff can be worked on in the film room. His release will get faster as he gets more comfy with the receivers. TOC is not on my list of worries after week 1.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2016-09-05, 22:26

I'll be honest TOC is on my list of worries.

My other worry is the OL. I think that's a repetition thing. And I think it will get better to much better. There were clear communication/assignment issues. I did not see issues with guys unable to physically block people.

We can be good with a QB who is a 1-2 read QB. Even if that's what TOC peaks at. But we have to be really good in all other areas and that's what worries me.

DL doesn't worry me. LB corps and missed tackles worry me a bit.

by **SpartanInNH** 2016-09-05, 22:36

Floyd Robertson wrote:I wonder how SpartanInNH's trip went.

Went great, thanks for asking! cheers

tOfficial Furman Thread - Page 7 502811600

In all seriousness, the game went pretty well - I was fairly concerned with the line play (OL & DL), but pleasantly surprised with Madaris and Davis's play. (Hope Davis is OK.)

And the fam is, well, the fam, so there's that. A good trip, all things taken in consideration. (Thank God MSU won - it would have turned the entire trip upside down to stay with my scUM brother & sister-in-law after a loss.)

by **By-Tor** 2016-09-05, 22:40

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I'll be honest TOC is on my list of worries.

My other worry is the OL. I think that's a repetition thing. And I think it will get better to much better. There were clear communication/assignment issues. I did not see issues with guys unable to physically block people.

We can be good with a QB who is a 1-2 read QB. Even if that's what TOC peaks at. But we have to be really good in all other areas and that's what worries me.

DL doesn't worry me. LB corps and missed tackles worry me a bit.

Hard to grade the LB with Reschke out. He is obv a plus player. TOC will develop a 2nd read. Prob gonna be a guy like Lyles he looks to. And don't forget that Shelton didn't see many pass routes. Shelton made a lot of big catches last year and has probably practiced a ton with TOC during the past 5 years.

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2016-09-05, 22:47

By-Tor wrote:
WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I'll be honest TOC is on my list of worries.

My other worry is the OL. I think that's a repetition thing. And I think it will get better to much better. There were clear communication/assignment issues. I did not see issues with guys unable to physically block people.

We can be good with a QB who is a 1-2 read QB. Even if that's what TOC peaks at. But we have to be really good in all other areas and that's what worries me.

DL doesn't worry me. LB corps and missed tackles worry me a bit.
Hard to grade the LB with Reschke out. He is obv a plus player. TOC will develop a 2nd read. Prob gonna be a guy like Lyles he looks to. And don't forget that Shelton didn't see many pass routes. Shelton made a lot of big catches last year and has probably practiced a ton with TOC during the past 5 years.

Good points. But I think a sight like PFF or something techincal like that had our LB corps last year missing more tackles than anyone in the country. and that would have been Riley, Reschke and Harris.

I trust TOC a lot. I think he's got kind of an intangible chill factor, which is nice. But we are also used to Cook. Cook was a dirty assassin who was happy to throw Brody Caf kids under the bus to clean up his mess. He would throw a pick and turn around and make the DB think it was his fault for misplaying the route. He could pick up an ugly broad at Rick's after whiffing on his first 3 targets and make her feel like she was a queen. That's a talent. Special talent.

by Clarett's Folly 2016-09-05, 22:49

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:
By-Tor wrote: Hard to grade the LB with Reschke out. He is obv a plus player. TOC will develop a 2nd read. Prob gonna be a guy like Lyles he looks to. And don't forget that Shelton didn't see many pass routes. Shelton made a lot of big catches last year and has probably practiced a ton with TOC during the past 5 years.

Good points. But I think a sight like PFF or something techincal like that had our LB corps last year missing more tackles than anyone in the country. and that would have been Riley, Reschke and Harris.

I trust TOC a lot. I think he's got kind of an intangible chill factor, which is nice. But we are also used to Cook. Cook was a dirty assassin who was happy to throw Brody Caf kids under the bus to clean up his mess. He would throw a pick and turn around and make the DB think it was his fault for misplaying the route. He could pick up an ugly broad at Rick's after whiffing on his first 3 targets and make her feel like she was a queen. That's a talent. Special talent.

Dickhead QBs are so hot right now.
- Chad Kelley

by **WhiteBoyHatcher** 2016-09-05, 22:54

I'm gonna throw this out there. I'm definitely drunk. Connor Cook is the best QB MSU has ever had. And I think he will be great in the NFL if he ever gets a shot.

The first time I saw KC in a game it was that OSU debacle at home. I was like - holy shit - NFL arm. And yeah, he did have one.

I'm not sure what I saw in CC the first time I saw him but he has the arm, and more importantly he has the gunslinger mind. He literally does not give a fuck. Throws with reckless abandon and no conscience.

Gonna be really hard to replace that. Maybe we will benefit from a more conservative approach. Who knows.

by **By-Tor** 2016-09-05, 23:04

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I'm gonna throw this out there. I'm definitely drunk. Connor Cook is the best QB MSU has ever had. And I think he will be great in the NFL if he ever gets a shot.

The first time I saw KC in a game it was that OSU debacle at home. I was like - holy shit - NFL arm. And yeah, he did have one.

I'm not sure what I saw in CC the first time I saw him but he has the arm, and more importantly he has the gunslinger mind. He literally does not give a fuck. Throws with reckless abandon and no conscience.

Gonna be really hard to replace that. Maybe we will benefit from a more conservative approach. Who knows.

I def remember the OSU debacle and you're right, KC showed the great arm strength when he wasn't running for his life. I also thought gunslinger the first time CC played. I never liked Hoyer or Maxwell.

by **Nordic** 2016-09-05, 23:11

By-Tor wrote:Ok- I watched the kids breakdown of TOC and he was being super critical/stupid at times. He knocks TOC for locking in on a receiver who was wide open on a 3 step drop on 3rd and 6. Not exactly the time to scour the field for option 3. I thought TOC played pretty well. The Price int and the time he didn't spot a wide open Corley were not good plays and most of the stadium knew he missed Corley but hey that kind of stuff can be worked on in the film room. His release will get faster as he gets more comfy with the receivers. TOC is not on my list of worries after week 1.

Sort of agree. You can't look at game film and point out a wide open guy on the opposite side the play is designed. But fuck... i saw that INT coming 2 or 3 plays before he threw it. You can't lock on your primary from snap to throw every play. That said this more fixable than not being able to throw.

by **Nordic** 2016-09-05, 23:14

Clarett's Folly wrote:
WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

Good points. But I think a sight like PFF or something techincal like that had our LB corps last year missing more tackles than anyone in the country. and that would have been Riley, Reschke and Harris.

I trust TOC a lot. I think he's got kind of an intangible chill factor, which is nice. But we are also used to Cook. Cook was a dirty assassin who was happy to throw Brody Caf kids under the bus to clean up his mess. He would throw a pick and turn around and make the DB think it was his fault for misplaying the route. He could pick up an ugly broad at Rick's after whiffing on his first 3 targets and make her feel like she was a queen. That's a talent. Special talent.

Dickhead QBs are so hot right now.
- Chad Kelley

Lol... this meathead is melting

by Clarett's Folly 2016-09-05, 23:16

Nordic wrote:
Clarett's Folly wrote:

Dickhead QBs are so hot right now.
- Chad Kelley

Lol... this meathead is melting

The whole team expected FSU to roll over and die. Surprise, fuckers!

by **Nordic** 2016-09-05, 23:21

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:My other worry is the OL. I think that's a repetition thing. And I think it will get better to much better. There were clear communication/assignment issues. I did not see issues with guys unable to physically block people.

I think you nailed it on the OL. I was focused on the OLine more than anything watching the replay (really hard to gage live...at least from my seats). They never really got beat, solid push.... but was still a bit baffled we didn't hit bigger runs. So I was a tad perplexed. Give them some reps and maybe they make that extra lvl block. Thought Price (even taking away the penalties) missed some assingments... but maybe it was the tackle. Obv don't know the plays so I can't judge

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