Re: 2017/18 Hoops Thread - Unfinished Business.

[Tim Wakefield]

I'm not worried

[WhiteBoyHatcher]

I won't post the video but Izzo post game proves I'm an idiot.

-Blames himself for letting them get the run/momentum going into the 2nd half
-Team didn't play very well but was not full of themselves, practiced great, despite #1 ranking
-Didn't do good enough job of forcing the ball to 44
-Didn't share the ball well enough, turned into 1 on 1 when they got down
-Doesn't buy that this is good for the team in the long run

[WhiteBoyHatcher]

"If somebody thinks I'm blaming me to take the pressure off of my guys....the way I abuse my guys in public? That ain't happenin, ok? I say that because I took the wind out of their sail and I didn't do a very good job, and consequently they didn't do a very good job."

[DWags]

I won't post the video but Izzo post game proves I'm an idiot.

-Blames himself for letting them get the run/momentum going into the 2nd half
-Team didn't play very well but was not full of themselves, practiced great, despite #1 ranking
-Didn't do good enough job of forcing the ball to 44
-Didn't share the ball well enough, turned into 1 on 1 when they got down
-Doesn't buy that this is good for the team in the long run

Give the ball to Ward and let him mix it up. Make Bridges go to the hole. But ward needs to come out bloody from here on out and he’ll do it.

[aualum06]

Ward let himself get fronted way to easy and was a turnover machine against the double. Needs to go to work.

[Other Teams Pursuing That]

How the fuck did they get blown out fuck

[DWags]

How the fuck did they get blown out fuck

I believe the term is “skullfucked”

[WhiteBoyHatcher]

[tGreenWay]

How the fuck did they get blown out fuck

Tum got all your minutes.

[Nordic]

I won't post the video but Izzo post game proves I'm an idiot.

-Blames himself for letting them get the run/momentum going into the 2nd half
-Team didn't play very well but was not full of themselves, practiced great, despite #1 ranking
-Didn't do good enough job of forcing the ball to 44
-Didn't share the ball well enough, turned into 1 on 1 when they got down
-Doesn't buy that this is good for the team in the long run

From what I saw 44 didn't do enough to get into position to force the ball to him. But in theory I would agree.

[Tim Wakefield]

Ward got owned

[Floyd Robertson]

New AP 25

[Guest]

MSU intent on making sure OSU loss only a hiccup

[Guest]

Revived Nick Ward is MSU's 'best player' in close call

[DWags]

Revived Nick Ward is MSU's 'best player' in close call

This article should be in the Nick Ward thread.

[Guest]

Revived Nick Ward is MSU's 'best player' in close call

This article should be in the Nick Ward thread.

I'm sorry, I'll try to do better.

[Guest]

Michigan State's Miles Bridges needs to be 'a little more of a jerk' to be great

[Cameron]

Michigan State's Miles Bridges needs to be 'a little more of a jerk' to be great

Here's hoping he's a real jerk to the blues on Saturday. If he could drop 30pts/10reb and posterize a couple dudes, that would be excellent.

[Guest]

We're not tough enough. Wonder if 'Tone has any eligibility left?

Tom Izzo: Michigan State basketball struggling vs. physical, veteran play

[Other Teams Pursuing That]

Ranked 9 somehow

[Nordic]

What a funky schedule. We play OSU, Mich and Pur only once. In theory that is good, but doesn't give us any room for error to win the BIG. No chance to get even with Mich or OSU.

I'm calling it right now, we win out. Fuck Purdue and their trains. We are winning out.

IND 11-7
@ ILL 10-9
WIS 9-9
@ MARY 14-6
PSU 13-7
@ IND 11-7
@ Iowa 10-9
PUR 17-2
@ MINN 14-6
@ NWEST 11-8
ILL 10-9
@ WIS 9-9

[Death Roe]

Win out and destroy OSU in the BTT semis and UM in the finals.

[DWags]

What a funky schedule. We play OSU, Mich and Pur only once. In theory that is good, but doesn't give us any room for error to win the BIG.  No chance to get even with Mich or OSU.

I'm calling it right now, we win out.  Fuck Purdue and their trains. We are winning out.

IND 11-7
@ ILL 10-9
WIS 9-9
@ MARY 14-6
PSU 13-7
@ IND 11-7
@ Iowa 10-9
PUR 17-2
@ MINN 14-6
@ NWEST 11-8
ILL 10-9
@ WIS 9-9

So, I never really looked at our schedule.  We only play what I believe to be the three best teams in the big ten, OSU, Purdue, and UofM once?   What the fuck kind of schedule is that?  Worst part is that we laid two big eggs against OSU and Michigan.   I really hohpe we get to play them in the tournament.  Big ten regular season champ is as phony as they come.

[Other Teams Pursuing That]

What a funky schedule. We play OSU, Mich and Pur only once. In theory that is good, but doesn't give us any room for error to win the BIG.  No chance to get even with Mich or OSU.

I'm calling it right now, we win out.  Fuck Purdue and their trains. We are winning out.

IND 11-7
@ ILL 10-9
WIS 9-9
@ MARY 14-6
PSU 13-7
@ IND 11-7
@ Iowa 10-9
PUR 17-2
@ MINN 14-6
@ NWEST 11-8
ILL 10-9
@ WIS 9-9

I really hohpe we get to play them in the tournament.  Big ten regular season champ is as phony as they come.

Wait wut

[WhiteBoyHatcher]

He basically just re-stated what Nordy posted, almost verbatim and then topped it off with a complete falsehood.

Wags is hittin the pipe this morning, I love it.

[Nordic]

BIG regular season means wayyyyy more than the BIG tournament IMO.

[Other Teams Pursuing That]

BIG regular season means wayyyyy more than the BIG tournament IMO.

It does, this is just wags spinning bullshit to fit MSU’s current situation. In a few months it’ll be izzo doesn’t care about conference tournaments. Or maybe he will care about this one. We will see how they play.

[DWags]

Nah, if it's a round robin I'm all about it.   But at least the big ten makes the automatic qualifier the tournament champ, and not the regular season champ.  

Face it, if OSU and UofM and Purdue get beat by other teams, and we win the big ten, and we only had to play them once, we greatly benefit from that.  And OTPT, I don't know how that spins into our situation, but in your mind it does, so that's cool.  But I'm telling you, if we run the table, and the teams that beat us lose to other teams, and MSU is regular season champ, to me, it means we lucked out that we didn't have to play UofM or OSU or Purdue twice.  Because we could go from 2 loses to 5 or 6 had we had to play them twice.

[DWags]

By the way, 2016 champ Indiana didn’t have to play the 2nd, 3rd, 4th place teams twice. They only played once. That BTT was exciting as hell. The Hoosiers weren’t involved in it very long, the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, place teams played to the semis.

[WhiteBoyHatcher]

Wags what is a truer test of how good a team is, an 18/20 game regular season in which you play every team once and many of them twice, or a 3-4 game tournament in which you play 3-4 teams. Your logic contradicts itself.

BTRSC >>>> BTTC and it's not close. Never has been.

It's like saying winning the NIT is better than making the Dance and losing in the first round.

[DWags]

So, you're telling me 2016 IU was a better team than Maryland, Purdue, Wisconsin and (choke on applesauce in the tournament) MSU. O.K., we'll disagree with that. But IU lucked out that year. Maryland was bad ass that year and they were a very tough out. IU played them once. Our team was very good that year, despite MTSU, and we were a very tough out. IU played us once. Purdue was pretty damn good, beat us by one in OT and they only played them once.

Semi's of theBT tournament saw Maryland, MSU and Purdue. Beat the shit out of each other and Im not convinced that didn't hurt Purdue and MSU in the tournament. Draining games. IU lost the first game of theBT tournament.

Look, you can say the Big Ten champ is more deserving because they did the season grind. I have no problem with that, but You really need to acknowledge that some teams really benefit from a softer big ten schedule. And before OTPT just ignorantly says I'm saying that because it some how fits our narrative this year, I'm saying quite the opposite. MSU would be very lucky if we win the big ten, and we don't get another ass beating by OSU and UofM. It would be, in my mind, pretty phony based on what I"ve seen so far this year. We are not better than either one of those teams, yet we could benefit by not playing them again, and we might be a higher seed because of it.

While the big ten tournament rewards the hot team at the time, I love the intensity and the drama that we see there each year. Not too many teams phone it in during that tournament, and you usually get the best out of each team.

And your comparison at the end of the NIT and first round stuff is hyperbolic bullshit, but hey, might as well throw that at the wall.

[WhiteBoyHatcher]

Yes, the best team is the team that survives the grind of the regular season. And yes some teams benefit from softer schedules some of the time. There's no doubt. That's sports, though. How is that any different at all from say, a Wisconsin team that eventually wins the BTT lucking out because Illinois upsets Purdue and they don't have to go through the Boilers in the semis? It isn't different at all.

[DWags]

It's not different WBH. That's why saying BTRSC>>>>>>>>> BTTC is kind of bullshit too. Both have flaws. Frankly, I don't give a shit about either. I'd rather win the first weekend of the NCAA than either one. I think the sweet 16 is far greater than either. But until we have a round robin in the BT season, I'm going to let you guys think the regular season trophy means so much more than the BTT trophy. I just don't think it does

BTW, near the end of my AD career we went to "regular season champ" and Tournament champ in basketball, wrestling, volleyball baseball softball, CC and Track. The way they decided "overall champ" was 50/50. If you came in 1st in the regular season, but 3rd or fourth in the tournament, and another team came in 2nd in the regular season but 1st in the tournament, they were the champ. We assigned points to both and yes we understood you could come in 2nd, and not be the 2nd best in the tournament. Depending on the semi's.

[Nordic]

The problem I have with all these arguments (including the CFP) is the definition of "Best Team".

I couldn't give two shits who the "Best Team" on paper is (looking at Alabama).  The team that wins their conference or title game or National Championship is the best team in my book. You gotta earn it.  To me the BIG regular season gauntlet/title means something. If you win that, you earned it. The BIG tournament is a fun little money grab, but at the end of the day means nothing. For the smaller conferences, obviously the auto-bid means something. But still think that should go to the regular season Champ.

This is the best team we've had in a long time. I want a BIG (regular season) Championship.

The schedule this year blows. Since we dropped 2 of the tough games, it actually hurts us considerably. We have no opportunity to make those back up and even the series.  It is what it is...whatever...win the conference. Next year I heard everybody plays each other twice.

[DWags]

Nordic, WBH, I will absolutely be on your side of this argument if the Big ten goes round robin next year.   Till then, it's a three month prep for the tournament.  Making adjustments, trying lineups and sets, seeing what works.  The BTT is the prelim to get you used to what you will see.  Together they both mean so little to me.   I imagine winning either is a big deal to the players, so who the fuck am I to down play anything.   I'm a failed high school athlete.  If they go round robin, I'd respect the regular season championship way more.  But when IU can win it in 16, while only playing the #'s 2,3,and 4 teams once, it just seems a bit hollow to me.  


Reason why I came back on here today:  Don't listen to Valenti.  Guy has all the answers tell me if this makes sense:

1.  Play the offense through JJJ.  No more miles, run everything through JJJ
2.  Losen the team up and run as much as possible. 
3.  Play some zones, 1-3-1 and traps
4.  Shorten the bench.
5.  Get rid of the stupid sets/half court stuff

O.K., I know shit about basketball, but here is my questions for Mike.   If you do #1, play through JJJ, are you able to do #'s 2 and 5?    I wish I could have called for an explanation.   Play through JJJ, but get rid of half court sets  and run the ball as much as possible.  Does that make sense?

If you do #2, can you do #4?   Run as much as possible and shorten the bench?  

I guess I'd like to see some zones mixed in, but is it hard to teach the fundamentals of a zone match up at this point in the season?  

I know he's full of shit.   I just wish I had time to call the fucker up and ask him if he realized he seems, to me to be talking out both sides of his mouth.

[duffy munn]

Nordic, WBH, I will absolutely be on your side of this argument if the Big ten goes round robin next year.   Till then, it's a three month prep for the tournament.  Making adjustments, trying lineups and sets, seeing what works.  The BTT is the prelim to get you used to what you will see.  Together they both mean so little to me.   I imagine winning either is a big deal to the players, so who the fuck am I to down play anything.   I'm a failed high school athlete.  If they go round robin, I'd respect the regular season championship way more.  But when IU can win it in 16, while only playing the #'s 2,3,and 4 teams once, it just seems a bit hollow to me.  


Reason why I came back on here today:  Don't listen to Valenti.  Guy has all the answers tell me if this makes sense:

1.  Play the offense through JJJ.  No more miles, run everything through JJJ
2.  Losen the team up and run as much as possible. 
3.  Play some zones, 1-3-1 and traps
4.  Shorten the bench.
5.  Get rid of the stupid sets/half court stuff

O.K., I know shit about basketball, but here is my questions for Mike.   If you do #1, play through JJJ, are you able to do #'s 2 and 5?    I wish I could have called for an explanation.   Play through JJJ, but get rid of half court sets  and run the ball as much as possible.  Does that make sense?

If you do #2, can you do #4?   Run as much as possible and shorten the bench?  

I guess I'd like to see some zones mixed in, but is it hard to teach the fundamentals of a zone match up at this point in the season?  

I know he's full of shit.   I just wish I had time to call the fucker up and ask him if he realized he seems, to me to be talking out both sides of his mouth.

1-3-1 trap, really?

The most easily beatable defense there is.

If he thinks the current D is a layup/dunk line now, just wait.

I could teach 5th grade girls how to shred the 1-3-1.

Valenti should stick to trolling Walvies.

[Cameron]

Izzo will never play zone, people should stop asking/hoping for it. Izzo teams play man-to-man. Defense is not really this team's problem most nights, frankly. Turnovers (and points off TOs) and scoring droughts are why this team loses. Most of the time, the D is fine, occasionally it is fucking spectacular (UNC this year), every once in a while it sucks a fat one (OSU).

We've seen how good this team can be, and I have faith that they will find that form again before all is said and done. Young teams are more inconsistent, comes with the territory.

[Guest]

You can stop with that level headed shit anytime.

[AnomanderRake]

I don't think our defense is the problem as a few others have said.

Basketball is a game of match-ups, OSU and UM gave us some really difficult match-ups that we didn't prepare well for and adjusted for in-game even worse.

Ward had absolutely no business guarding Wagner. His speed, agility, and versatility were a nightmare for Ward making one of our best players a complete liability. Izzo should have rotated other bigs to guard Wagner and see who could slow him down or make adjustments to double team him.

I'm more concerned about how awful our offense has been the last few games. When we don't get defensive stops, or in a game like UM that is heavily dictated by fouls that eliminate transition opportunities, we look absolutely terrible in a half-court set. How many times did we start our first offensive set with like 12-15 seconds left on the shot clock? The pressure of hurrying through an offensive set to get a decent shot is also forcing us into bad positions that lead to turnovers and garbage shots.

[DWags]

Izzo will never play zone, people should stop asking/hoping for it. Izzo teams play man-to-man. Defense is not really this team's problem most nights, frankly. Turnovers (and points off TOs) and scoring droughts are why this team loses. Most of the time, the D is fine, occasionally it is fucking spectacular (UNC this year), every once in a while it sucks a fat one (OSU).

We've seen how good this team can be, and I have faith that they will find that form again before all is said and done. Young teams are more inconsistent, comes with the territory.

I’d have loved for someone like this to call in, I wasn’t comfortable with what I’d say. But I knew he didn’t know shit either. Guy is full of shit, but I didn’t know enough to call in. Just slappies agreeing with him mostly. Fuck.

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