Football rumors (Merged)

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:PC is on BTN if you want to watch it.

DWags wrote:http://video.btn.com/complete-michigan-state-football-press-conference

Presser

MiamiSpartan wrote:A lot of people calling them "stupid" or "idiots". No. I mean, yeah, they are, but being drunk and still driving home is stupid and idiotic. Getting in a fight at a bar is stupid and idiotic. Calling these guys stupid and idiotic is being wayyyyyy to fucking nice to them.

These guys are flat out fucking assholes, dickheads, pieces of shit. Rape is a crime of violence, not passion. It's not "Oh, I'm horny, I need some pussy or a bj". It's about power and forcing someone to bend to your will. How can you fucking do that in a situation like that? God dammit, I can't even imagine how big of a turn off it would be to have a girl crying and saying, "No, please stop!" But these pieces of shit got off on that, and kept going. And King fucking recorded it. Fucking evil monsters, the whole bunch of them.

SeeRockCity wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:A lot of people calling them "stupid" or "idiots". No. I mean, yeah, they are, but being drunk and still driving home is stupid and idiotic. Getting in a fight at a bar is stupid and idiotic. Calling these guys stupid and idiotic is being wayyyyyy to fucking nice to them.

These guys are flat out fucking assholes, dickheads, pieces of shit. Rape is a crime of violence, not passion. It's not "Oh, I'm horny, I need some pussy or a bj". It's about power and forcing someone to bend to your will. How can you fucking do that in a situation like that? God dammit, I can't even imagine how big of a turn off it would be to have a girl crying and saying, "No, please stop!" But these pieces of shit got off on that, and kept going. And King fucking recorded it. Fucking evil monsters, the whole bunch of them.

I think that is implied. Most people are saying that in addition to being all those things, they are also stupid.

tGreenWay wrote:So many people immediately pouncing on these guys as monsters. Maybe they are, but maybe they aren't. I learned a long time ago the police and prosecutors have a tendency to overstate things. Therefore, until it's determined to be factual and truthful, I'm going to wait for the trials so I can hear from all sides before making up my mind. I'm sorry to learn I'm in the minority here.

Herbie Green wrote:What an asswipe Seidel is if you read his column from last night about MSU hiding and Dantonio sneaking out the backdoor.
Well today they pressed charges and released the names and here is Dantonio standing up like a man and taking questions

Vance arrived in court with several family members and and a bishop from his church. All declined to comment following the hearing.

His preliminary examination hearing was set for 9 a.m. June 22, and a probable cause conference is scheduled for 1 p.m. June 15.

The prosecution asked for a $50,000 bond, but Vance's attorney said Vance has no interest in fleeing or contacting the alleged victim and plans to fully fight the charge. Judge Richard Ball set bond at 10 percent of $10,000 and ordered no contact between Vance and the alleged victim.

It probably shouldn’t be notable that by all accounts Michigan State handled these allegations and the criminal investigation into them properly and without interference. This is college football though, where cover-up scandals are all too common.

Dantonio and athletic director Mark Hollis let the police do their job, suspending, but not naming, the players. It came at a cost – unable to offer much of a comment, the specter of the scandal hovered over the program, which never helps recruiting. Dantonio spent months almost underground, unable to do any promotion for the program. The Spartans, who take pride in never backing down, were forced to, at least temporarily.

All this came at a time when chief rivals Michigan, Ohio State and Notre Dame were racing around assembling talented recruiting classes.

Once the charges were filed, the three players were dismissed. Finally, the coach and athletic director spoke out. This appears to be the un-Baylor approach. For that, Spartan fans can be pleased.

Cameron wrote:

tGreenWay wrote:So many people immediately pouncing on these guys as monsters. Maybe they are, but maybe they aren't. I learned a long time ago the police and prosecutors have a tendency to overstate things. Therefore, until it's determined to be factual and truthful, I'm going to wait for the trials so I can hear from all sides before making up my mind. I'm sorry to learn I'm in the minority here.

Under different circumstances I might agree with you, but being that there is video of the incident and charges are being brought and they've been kicked off the team... I feel that the totality of what we know warrants jumping to some conclusions.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I'm not trying to stop you guys from talking about it, but who cares at this point. Innocent, guilty, varying degrees - no longer our concern. Coach D made the decision to move on without him, he deemed the evidence to be enough that they should not be part of the program. Only concern left here is for the victim.

MSU addict wrote:First off, I believe if they have done what is alleged - let them rot.

That said, unless I hear an account from someone who actually saw the video, I am not giving it much weight.  I don't understand why everyone is going off the deep end about "video evidence."  It may be may be quite damning, but it may actually help exonerate them.  

It seems to be trying the case in the court of public opinion.  If that video evidence was so damning - why the fuck does it take four months for charges to be brought?  Why does it the case have to be sent back to the police for more investigation if they had video that left little doubt as to what happened.  How long did it take them to charge Auston Robertson, a week?

Unfortunately in the end, I have a feeling this is still going to be a "they said - she said" case.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I'm not trying to stop you guys from talking about it, but who cares at this point. Innocent, guilty, varying degrees - no longer our concern. Coach D made the decision to move on without him, he deemed the evidence to be enough that they should not be part of the program. Only concern left here is for the victim.

gHost Spartan wrote:

Wally Fairway wrote:

What I'm most interested in at this point is - If there is video evidence and as most people are jumping to a guilty conclusion, why in the hell did it take the prosecutor 4 months to decide to press charges?
Something really just doesn't quite seem right, I'm all in for if they raped her then rot. And I have no problem with cutting them loose from the program and the school for being in that situation...but I'll wait to see what happens in court.
I'm hoping that they don't take a plea, if they really think they are innocent. But that will barely make the news, which is right. Because if they were not MSU football players they would be like the other 100 cases heard every month in Ingham county - for drugs, drunk driving, homicide, CSC, etc that we never hear about.

The existence of a video doesn't necessarily prove or disprove anything - we simply do not know the content of the video; but the video potentially can bolster or mitigate some of the allegations. Remember, the prosecution has to be able to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt; it's better to be cautious, interview all of the witnesses, collecting other evidence, getting search warrants for the phones, etc. There's a lot more involved than simply taking a few statements and watching a video. On TV they wrap this shit up in an hour but not in real life, a lot depends on the evidence.

To respond to Green Way, I kind of agree with you but I see Corley and Vance more as incredibly intoxicated opportunists than violent rapists. Good people can commit horrendous crimes. As an attorney, I feel strongly about due process of law and being innocent until proven guilty (see Duke Lax). But I gotta admit that it looks bad for these kids. Tragic all around, so many lives ruined for what, nothing.

My guess is that at least two if not all of them will be imprisoned within the next year.

LooseGoose wrote:Matt Charboneau‏ @mattcharboneau 5m5 minutes ago
More
King arraignment complete. Attorney said video on his phone will show the incident was consensual

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I didn't read Wojo's article but I didn't think anything he said there in that clip was unfair. Basic point = Culture has eroded due to signing higher ranked kids with questionable character and assuming the culture would take care of itself when instead the kids became the culture. Spot on, actually. Other factors involved for sure, but that was certainly part of it. A big part.

Cameron wrote:Maybe that will be the case, but I can't imagine the police/prosecutor haven't seen the video, and I can't imagine they'd have brought charges if they thought it would sink their case. But police and prosecutors don't always act in good faith, so maybe.

And regardless, wasn't the creation of the video itself a crime?

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Yeah I agree with that, and I agree with Valenti - that much is stupid. Max Bullough and Connor Cook not being a captain have little to do with what has happened to the program over the past 6-9 months.