Football rumors (Merged)

General Grant wrote:

DWags wrote:



What's funny is that the wheels came off so quickly in so many aspects of the program, from having the reputation of "holy Rollers", doing things right, bringing "church" into the locker room, guys like Cousins, Harris, Denard, winning games, promoting MSU then, to this mess, racism on the team sexual assault, losing games, stories of Trumpites preaching to team mates last fall, coaches not on task. If all this stuff is true, the good and the bad, I'd want an explanation as to how the head coach thinks it could happen so quickly, and I'd like some reassurance that we have a focus on what it was, and maybe get back to where it needs

Can you please point out where you heard the team had last falls presidential election negatively effect performance?

How do I do that? How do you measure a team liking or not liking each other and quantify it with measured performance? That wasn't the point. As a board member watching from the outside and hearing the same shit we were, then having to hire an outside firm to investigate what happened, having a captain miss the Michigan game because of whatever reason then the arrests etc, I'm just putting myself in a board members seat. Dantonio has their respect, they have a great report why wouldn't you want to ask him some closed door questions? Not to fire him or say you have one shot, but to ask, can we help, are we ok, what's it looking like.

My examples were written as examples of what appeared to be cracks in team chemistry, not as proof of why we went 3-9. Me personally, I don't blink at this season if I have a seat on the board, but are you suggesting all board members should just say, I believe in him, let it go? If they had I'd have no problem with it, but I'm suggesting that I'd understand if any were curious. And frankly a guy line Dantonio could most likely answer questions in not only a reassuring way but in a way that says "relax and mind your business" without saying it.

By the way, Tinkers to Evers to Chance all hated each other. Team mates don't need to love each other's politics or music to play well together, that wasn't my point.

If warrants are issued today, names should go public.

Matt Charboneau‏
@mattcharboneau
Following
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Judge Richard Ball authorizes criminal sexual assault charges on MSU football players Josh King, Demetric Vance and Donnie Corley

Kyle Austin is tweeting some details of the alleged assault. Guess he's seen the police report. Will be curious to read it.

CORNER BLITZ wrote:

General Grant wrote:

Can you please point out where you heard the team had last falls presidential election negatively effect performance?

supposedly Bullough wanted to make America great again and if you don't like Trump that's enough to believe it ruined the team because there's black guys on the team...or so the thinking was when it came out that Bullough liked Trump

My impression was that it wasn't so much that Bullough liked Trump, it's just that he wouldn't shut up about it. He seems like the type of dude that would go over the top about things that he likes. From there it really only takes one person to disagree for an argument to start and the locker room to start to divide. The election was quite divisive for the country as a whole, so it wouldn't surprise me at all to hear that it had a negative impact on an already-struggling football team's chemistry.

@kylebaustin
2m
Police allege King pulled a woman into a bathroom at an apartment, pulled her pants down and penetrated her against her will

Replying to @kylebaustin
Police allege he later allowed Corley and Vance into the bathroom, and the alleged victim was forced to perform oral sex against her will

Amy Lange @langeamyFOX2
5m
Detective says video of King having sex with the victim was also found on King's cell phone. The victim did not consent to being recorded.

Jesus Christ.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Amy Lange @langeamyFOX2
5m
Detective says video of King having sex with the victim was also found on King's cell phone. The victim did not consent to being recorded.

100% honest question: if they have video evidence, why did it take so long for warrants to be issued?

And they gone.

Rico Beard‏ @RicoBeard 1m1 minute ago
More
Josh King, Donnie Corley and Demetric Vance have been dismissed from the Michigan State Football program, effective immediately.

I don't even want to watch football no mo'

Press Conference at 12:30

SeeRockCity wrote:I don't even want to watch football no mo'

I've been there for a while.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Press Conference at 12:30

Now they can talk. It was so cheap of the writers for taking shots at them for their silence.

Freep be Freeping. Couch wrote an article starting the Dantonio is on the 'hot seat'.

I won't link to the article but I thought this part from the article was tough but fair:

"If Dantonio overcomes this, heals his program’s reputation and gets it rolling again on the field, it’ll be a greater feat than the original rise."

I think this is accurate as well " The program desperately needs a clean summer."

I think Dantonio does need to evaluate his staff, figure out if there's any leadership lacking and possibly cut ties.

steveschneider wrote:Freep be Freeping. Couch wrote an article starting the Dantonio is on the 'hot seat'.

I won't link to the article but I thought this part from the article was tough but fair:

"If Dantonio overcomes this, heals his program’s reputation and gets it rolling again on the field, it’ll be a greater feat than the original rise."

I think this is accurate as well " The program desperately needs a clean summer."

I think Dantonio does need to evaluate his staff, figure out if there's any leadership lacking and possibly cut ties.

I think that is what has been done.  There is a lot of smoke that the Blackwell experiment was a huge disaster.  I know it seems like scapegoating, but there's a lot of chatter about locker room division, etc.

I suspect that he will wait for that dust to settle first before more coaching evaluation, however, I suspect changes will be fast and decisive if things don't improve on the field this year. I think it would be really hard to pinpoint where on-field issues are rooted when there is so much chaos and locker room crap going on. That said, fuck Snyder.

Just my .02

SeeRockCity wrote:

steveschneider wrote:Freep be Freeping. Couch wrote an article starting the Dantonio is on the 'hot seat'.

I won't link to the article but I thought this part from the article was tough but fair:

"If Dantonio overcomes this, heals his program’s reputation and gets it rolling again on the field, it’ll be a greater feat than the original rise."

I think this is accurate as well " The program desperately needs a clean summer."

I think Dantonio does need to evaluate his staff, figure out if there's any leadership lacking and possibly cut ties.

I think that is what has been done.  There is a lot of smoke that the Blackwell experiment was a huge disaster.  I know it seems like scapegoating, but there's a lot of chatter about locker room division, etc.

I suspect that he will wait for that dust to settle first before more coaching evaluation, however, I suspect changes will be fast and decisive if things don't improve on the field this year. I think it would be really hard to pinpoint where on-field issues are rooted when there is so much chaos and locker room crap going on. That said, fuck Snyder.

Just my .02

Seems like what happened yesterday was a vote of confidence for Dantonio so I'm not really following Couch's claim of him being on the hot seat.

This is without a doubt a blow to the program, and I agree with the two statements I pasted above.

steveschneider wrote:Freep be Freeping. Couch wrote an article starting the Dantonio is on the 'hot seat'.

I won't link to the article but I thought this part from the article was tough but fair:

"If Dantonio overcomes this, heals his program’s reputation and gets it rolling again on the field, it’ll be a greater feat than the original rise."

I think this is accurate as well " The program desperately needs a clean summer."

I think Dantonio does need to evaluate his staff, figure out if there's any leadership lacking and possibly cut ties.

This drives me nuts. It always comes back to 3-9.  Only reason to post this comment.  This shit is bigger than the football record and by all accounts the staff has done everything right.

Anyone that questions if this staff is the right staff to guide them through this after how they have handled it and what they've done in the past is quite simply a moron.

steveschneider wrote:

SeeRockCity wrote:

steveschneider wrote:Freep be Freeping. Couch wrote an article starting the Dantonio is on the 'hot seat'.

I won't link to the article but I thought this part from the article was tough but fair:

"If Dantonio overcomes this, heals his program’s reputation and gets it rolling again on the field, it’ll be a greater feat than the original rise."

I think this is accurate as well " The program desperately needs a clean summer."

I think Dantonio does need to evaluate his staff, figure out if there's any leadership lacking and possibly cut ties.

I think that is what has been done.  There is a lot of smoke that the Blackwell experiment was a huge disaster.  I know it seems like scapegoating, but there's a lot of chatter about locker room division, etc.

I suspect that he will wait for that dust to settle first before more coaching evaluation, however, I suspect changes will be fast and decisive if things don't improve on the field this year. I think it would be really hard to pinpoint where on-field issues are rooted when there is so much chaos and locker room crap going on. That said, fuck Snyder.

Just my .02

Seems like what happened yesterday was a vote of confidence for Dantonio so I'm not really following Couch's claim of him being on the hot seat.

This is without a doubt a blow to the program, and I agree with the two statements I pasted above.

Just to be clear, I meant CMD will make coaching changes, not the university. Would not want any other coach at the helm for this delicate rebuilding effort.

Nordic wrote:

steveschneider wrote:Freep be Freeping. Couch wrote an article starting the Dantonio is on the 'hot seat'.

I won't link to the article but I thought this part from the article was tough but fair:

"If Dantonio overcomes this, heals his program’s reputation and gets it rolling again on the field, it’ll be a greater feat than the original rise."

I think this is accurate as well " The program desperately needs a clean summer."

I think Dantonio does need to evaluate his staff, figure out if there's any leadership lacking and possibly cut ties.

This drives me nuts. It always comes back to 3-9.  Only reason to post this comment.  This shit is bigger than the football record and by all accounts the staff has done everything right.

Anyone that questions if this staff is the right staff to guide them through this after how they have handled it and what they've done in the past is quite simply a moron.

Agree with this 100% as posted above. This is not the time for evaluating football performance. Staff consistency is probably 10 times more important as they work through this shit.

SeeRockCity wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

Seems like what happened yesterday was a vote of confidence for Dantonio so I'm not really following Couch's claim of him being on the hot seat.

This is without a doubt a blow to the program, and I agree with the two statements I pasted above.

Just to be clear, I meant CMD will make coaching changes, not the university. Would not want any other coach at the helm for this delicate rebuilding effort.

I agree.

CaptainSlow33 wrote:

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Amy Lange @langeamyFOX2
5m
Detective says video of King having sex with the victim was also found on King's cell phone. The victim did not consent to being recorded.

100% honest question: if they have video evidence, why did it take so long for warrants to be issued?

You answered your own question.

After we'd sorta been led to believe that it was more on 1 player than the other two......this is grim....up to 15 years in prison for Corley and Vance. What a waste of lives and potential while having a severe negative impact on the girl's life. Waste, waste, waste.....sad all around.

Michigan State football players sexually assaulted woman in bathroom, police say

LooseGoose wrote:After we'd sorta been led to believe that it was more on 1 player than the other two......this is grim....up to 15 years in prison for Corley and Vance. What a waste of lives and potential while having a severe negative impact on the girl's life. Waste, waste, waste.....sad all around.

Michigan State football players sexually assaulted woman in bathroom, police say

Sickening. That was a painful article to read.

What does JWeibs think these days?

Herbie Green wrote:What does JWeibs think these days?

Who gives a shit?

SeeRockCity wrote:

Nordic wrote:

This drives me nuts. It always comes back to 3-9.  Only reason to post this comment.  This shit is bigger than the football record and by all accounts the staff has done everything right.

Anyone that questions if this staff is the right staff to guide them through this after how they have handled it and what they've done in the past is quite simply a moron.

Agree with this 100% as posted above.  This is not the time for evaluating football performance.  Staff consistency is probably 10 times more important as they work through this shit.  

To be clear, I'm taliking about the leadership of the staff as a whole. Not their ability to draw up X and Os.

It is Giant Moose tactic to use this as reason to 'reevaluate' things (when they have history of doing things the right way, including during this recent mess) because you don't like the way Snyder coaches special teams or Warner calls plays. Moron is probably not the right word...being dishonest with yourself and the reason you want changes is more appropriate.

LooseGoose wrote:After we'd sorta been led to believe that it was more on 1 player than the other two......this is grim....up to 15 years in prison for Corley and Vance. What a waste of lives and potential while having a severe negative impact on the girl's life. Waste, waste, waste.....sad all around.

Michigan State football players sexually assaulted woman in bathroom, police say

At this point, I couldn't possibly care about the players involved - they chose their path. Little children understand that "no means no." Lock them up.

Nordic wrote:

SeeRockCity wrote:

Nordic wrote:

This drives me nuts. It always comes back to 3-9.  Only reason to post this comment.  This shit is bigger than the football record and by all accounts the staff has done everything right.

Anyone that questions if this staff is the right staff to guide them through this after how they have handled it and what they've done in the past is quite simply a moron.

Agree with this 100% as posted above.  This is not the time for evaluating football performance.  Staff consistency is probably 10 times more important as they work through this shit.  

To be clear, I'm taliking about the leadership of the staff as a whole. Not their ability to draw up X and Os.

It is Giant Moose tactic to use this as reason to 'reevaluate' things (when they have history of doing things the right way, including during this recent mess) because you don't like the way Snyder coaches special teams or Warner calls plays. Moron is probably not the right word...being dishonest with yourself and the reason you want changes is more appropriate.

I guess I can't really tell if we agree.  I think so?  Maybe you took offense to the throw away "fuck Snyder" line that was just a callback to earlier threads about the coaching staff? I think I'm basically saying the same thing as you are on this topic.

Nordic wrote:

SeeRockCity wrote:

Agree with this 100% as posted above.  This is not the time for evaluating football performance.  Staff consistency is probably 10 times more important as they work through this shit.  

To be clear, I'm taliking about the leadership of the staff as a whole. Not their ability to draw up X and Os.

It is Giant Moose tactic to use this as reason to 'reevaluate' things (when they have history of doing things the right way, including during this recent mess) because you don't like the way Snyder coaches special teams or Warner calls plays. Moron is probably not the right word...being dishonest with yourself and the reason you want changes is more appropriate.

I was in no way referring to x's and o's or 3-9. I'm talking leadership in the sense of making sure the program follows protocol and can hammer home the importance of living up to the high standards of the program off the field.

SeeRockCity wrote:

Nordic wrote:

To be clear, I'm taliking about the leadership of the staff as a whole. Not their ability to draw up X and Os.

It is Giant Moose tactic to use this as reason to 'reevaluate' things (when they have history of doing things the right way, including during this recent mess) because you don't like the way Snyder coaches special teams or Warner calls plays. Moron is probably not the right word...being dishonest with yourself and the reason you want changes is more appropriate.

I guess I can't really tell if we agree.  I think so?  Maybe you took offense to the throw away "fuck Snyder" line that was just a callback to earlier threads about the coaching staff? I think I'm basically saying the same thing as you are on this topic.

I think all three of us do agree, not sure how 3-9 got in this. I'd prioritized restoring the standards of the program over wins right now. This is a dark day.

CaptainSlow33 wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:After we'd sorta been led to believe that it was more on 1 player than the other two......this is grim....up to 15 years in prison for Corley and Vance. What a waste of lives and potential while having a severe negative impact on the girl's life. Waste, waste, waste.....sad all around.

Michigan State football players sexually assaulted woman in bathroom, police say

At this point, I couldn't possibly care about the players involved - they chose their path. Little children understand that "no means no." Lock them up.

I agree, while still deploring the waste of their lives. I find it nearly unfathomable that people in this day and age are so stupid as to even put themselves in that bathroom. Get a call like that run the other way and call 911.

Cameron wrote:

CaptainSlow33 wrote:

At this point, I couldn't possibly care about the players involved - they chose their path. Little children understand that "no means no." Lock them up.

That article makes them all seem both evil and dumb. How stupid do you have to be to positively identify your victim?

How stupid? As stupid as they obviously are. Fools.

Cameron wrote:

CaptainSlow33 wrote:

At this point, I couldn't possibly care about the players involved - they chose their path. Little children understand that "no means no." Lock them up.

That article makes them all seem both evil and dumb. How stupid do you have to be to positively identify your victim?

It takes a special type of stupid to not only do what they did, but also to keep the video that they took on their phones. I really wish I could say that I feel bad that they threw their lives away, but each one of them willingly put themselves into that situation, all while the girl was asking them to stop. I hope they get the maximum sentence and that prison isn't kind to them.

SeeRockCity wrote:

Nordic wrote:

To be clear, I'm taliking about the leadership of the staff as a whole. Not their ability to draw up X and Os.

It is Giant Moose tactic to use this as reason to 'reevaluate' things (when they have history of doing things the right way, including during this recent mess) because you don't like the way Snyder coaches special teams or Warner calls plays. Moron is probably not the right word...being dishonest with yourself and the reason you want changes is more appropriate.

I guess I can't really tell if we agree.  I think so?  Maybe you took offense to the throw away "fuck Snyder" line that was just a callback to earlier threads about the coaching staff?  I think I'm basically saying the same thing as you are on this topic.

I more responding to Steve (which you originally agreed with but evolved from there)

CaptainSlow33 wrote:

Cameron wrote:

That article makes them all seem both evil and dumb. How stupid do you have to be to positively identify your victim?

It takes a special type of stupid to not only do what they did, but also to keep the video that they took on their phones.  I really wish I could say that I feel bad that they threw their lives away, but each one of them willingly put themselves into that situation, all while the girl was asking them to stop.  I hope they get the maximum sentence and that prison isn't kind to them.

Obviously we need to hear the other side of the story.  But regardless, WTF are these dudes doing? First they tried to lie. Then they don't even know her name but have to pick her out from a photo? I get college one night stands, but having sex with a girl you don't know in the bathroom, who has likely had sex with others, even if consensual is absurd.  WTF is wrong with people. Have some goddamn respect for others and yourself.

Corley and Vance were both interviewed in early February. Both originally denied having sexual contact at the party, before later admitting to receiving oral sex from the alleged victim, according to Davis' testimony. Both said they didn't know the victim but positively identified her from a photo.

Excellent article by Couch posted in the recruiting thread, but it ties into what we are talking about here.

http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/sports/columnists/graham-couch/2017/06/06/msu-football-sexual-assault-couch-column/369649001/

Couch wrote:
...It all looks really bad for MSU’s football program.

What has to be determined, though, is whether the optics of this week and these past few months point to something true and damning about the state of MSU’s program and Dantonio’s ability to lead it?

Or did these situations happen despite the culture inside the football building and not, in some way, because of it?

We’re about to learn a ton about MSU’s leadership — from President Lou Anna Simon all the way down to the 14 remaining players from its 2016 class. And, of course, about Dantonio and his staff.

Heads shouldn’t roll for the sake of appearances. That’s weak leadership.

Heads should roll if MSU's leaders have lost faith in Dantonio. I’m told MSU isn’t close to that point, that Dantonio has the collective support of the board, despite recent grumbling. Dantonio left Monday’s board meeting with a “vote of confidence,” a perilous phrase in the world of college athletics. However, a legitimate one for now.

Monday’s meeting was a chance for Dantonio to explain his program — the discipline structure, organization, etc. — to board members who are less familiar with the inner workings of a major college football program.

Three of the eight board members are former MSU football players. One of those, George Perles, is a former head coach and athletic director.

The administration and board members should ask themselves this: If MSU had gone 9-3 last season, instead of 3-9, and if Larry Nassar didn’t exist, would they feel the same way about the overall condition of the football program?

Nassar is facing 28 criminal charges and seven lawsuits involving sexual assault claims from at least 95 women and girls. That situation heightens everything.

It shares common denominators with the football cases — sexual assault and MSU —but Mark Dantonio isn't one of them....