The 2020 Presidential campaign.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

Three_Putt_Par wrote:

This country has more independents and non-voters than Reps/Dems. That doesn't necessarily equate to centrism though.

The extremes to the right and left of the main parties are pretty small numbers, so yes, the vast majority if non-Dems/Pubs are centrist.  If course there are varying degrees of centrism, but the point remains that the Democrat or Republican base is not going to win you an election on their own.  The middle is up for grabs and tips every election.  I suppose you can always point to other factors like Democrat turnout in 2016, but if you win the middle then you can sustain fluctuations like that.

Do you think Bernie can actually expand the base? We may be entering a new paradigm where young people are a factor. I think student loans could be that factor. My neighbors kids are bright and they are shopping for the cheapest most affordable route to get a degree because they don’t want student debt. I have inlaws who’s kids are carrying 70-90k worth of debt and they went to great schools like Emorson and the University of Wisconsin. They graduate and have huge debt bills every month. I don’t even think I’d go to Michigan State these days with the costs and debt. I think a lot of these kids are broke, drowning in debt, working crappy jobs and pissed off.

There hasn't been a true liberal as an option in decades. I think with the "ok boomer" mentality in general... not to mention the student loans... and the environmental concerns, guns, race issues, poverty and inability/apathy of the existing ruling institutions, people (maybe pushed by millennials, but definitely others, Bernie aint no spring chicken.) are finally getting to the tipping point of requiring action... or at least an honest discussion. That's my hope at least.

This is all for Dems...

The Rs are easily manipulated propaganda fed morons (all it takes is a well placed jackass memes to distort their inner rage... at many of the same things true libs hate... to support the polar opposite). The institutional Rs are power clinging buffoons which would sell their mother for one more day in power.

steveschneider wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:
The extremes to the right and left of the main parties are pretty small numbers, so yes, the vast majority if non-Dems/Pubs are centrist.  If course there are varying degrees of centrism, but the point remains that the Democrat or Republican base is not going to win you an election on their own.  The middle is up for grabs and tips every election.  I suppose you can always point to other factors like Democrat turnout in 2016, but if you win the middle then you can sustain fluctuations like that.

Do you think Bernie can actually expand the base? We may be entering a new paradigm where young people are a factor. I think student loans could be that factor. My neighbors kids are bright and they are shopping for the cheapest most affordable route to get a degree because they don’t want student debt. I have inlaws who’s kids are carrying 70-90k worth of debt and they went to great schools like Emorson and the University of Wisconsin. They graduate and have huge debt bills every month. I don’t even think I’d go to Michigan State these days with the costs and debt. I think a lot of these kids are broke, drowning in debt, working crappy jobs and pissed off.

I certainly think Bernie can expand the base, though you didn't ask me. I don't think the status quo and incrementalism excite people who are disengaged from politics. I think change candidates can and do excite those people. Obama billed himself as a change candidate. So did Trump, in a very different way, and so does Bernie.

Politico: Sanders sends Democratic establishment into panic mode

The Dem establishment is so stupid, it's a wonder they win a single election against the GOP.

It was not just Sanders’ victory, but the lopsidedness of the outcome that struck fear into moderate Democrats. In one day, Sanders proved that he could broaden his coalition beyond the narrow base that many assumed would limit his appeal.

"Oh my God, we have a clear front runner and people are excited to vote for him, we're so fucked!"

Cameron wrote:Politico: Sanders sends Democratic establishment into panic mode

The Dem establishment is so stupid, it's a wonder they win a single election against the GOP.

It was not just Sanders’ victory, but the lopsidedness of the outcome that struck fear into moderate Democrats. In one day, Sanders proved that he could broaden his coalition beyond the narrow base that many assumed would limit his appeal.

"Oh my God, we have a clear front runner and people are excited to vote for him, we're so fucked!"

I really think the "establishment" thinks they can heard the cats... Or at least hopes they can heard enough of the cats (and still have right leaning economic policy).
Billionaires gunna billion....(you know what I mean)

Cameron wrote:Politico: Sanders sends Democratic establishment into panic mode

The Dem establishment is so stupid, it's a wonder they win a single election against the GOP.

It was not just Sanders’ victory, but the lopsidedness of the outcome that struck fear into moderate Democrats. In one day, Sanders proved that he could broaden his coalition beyond the narrow base that many assumed would limit his appeal.

"Oh my God, we have a clear front runner and people are excited to vote for him, we're so fucked!"

I'll just note I didn't think this guy could expand the base and he's doing just that. If He puts up historic numbers on super Tuesday then I think any pundit/party official that can't see that we've entered a new paradigm in politics is someone we should all stop listening to. In my opinion this is a new frontier and no one knows what's going to happen.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

Cameron wrote:Politico: Sanders sends Democratic establishment into panic mode

The Dem establishment is so stupid, it's a wonder they win a single election against the GOP.



"Oh my God, we have a clear front runner and people are excited to vote for him, we're so fucked!"

had Buttigieg won.. "gay man sends Democrats into panic mode"..

had Warren won.. "elitist liberal Harvard professor sends Democrats into panic mode"..

had Biden won.. "Hunter Biden's Dad sends Democrats into panic mode"...

had Klobuchar won.. "former prosecutor sends Democrats into panic mode"...

I don't agree, Bob, but that's about the level of take I would expect from you on this.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

Cameron wrote:

I don't agree, Bob, but that's about the level of take I would expect from you on this.

well, I'm just an idiot who doesn't allow Facebook, church leaders or the mainstream media to tell me what to think and believe.

so, yeah.. feel free to freak out and know that the media is laughing all the way to the bank.

My bad, Bob, I completely forgot how your total lack of information intake makes you an authority on this and all other subjects.

steveschneider wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:
The extremes to the right and left of the main parties are pretty small numbers, so yes, the vast majority if non-Dems/Pubs are centrist.  If course there are varying degrees of centrism, but the point remains that the Democrat or Republican base is not going to win you an election on their own.  The middle is up for grabs and tips every election.  I suppose you can always point to other factors like Democrat turnout in 2016, but if you win the middle then you can sustain fluctuations like that.

Do you think Bernie can actually expand the base? We may be entering a new paradigm where young people are a factor. I think student loans could be that factor. My neighbors kids are bright and they are shopping for the cheapest most affordable route to get a degree because they don’t want student debt. I have inlaws who’s kids are carrying 70-90k worth of debt and they went to great schools like Emorson and the University of Wisconsin. They graduate and have huge debt bills every month. I don’t even think I’d go to Michigan State these days with the costs and debt. I think a lot of these kids are broke, drowning in debt, working crappy jobs and pissed off.

I don't know if I'd call that expanding the base, but that and other areas (such as those that want a shake up in DC) are certainly areas that he can get significant votes from that other democrats now and in the past, would have trouble with.

But color me skeptical about the young vote turning out. It seems like they always say that young people can swing the election, and then people get their hopes up that they will be activated....and then the voting numbers are pretty flat. Bernie does seem to connect more with that crowd than in the past, but I'm not counting on that.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

Do you think Bernie can actually expand the base? We may be entering a new paradigm where young people are a factor. I think student loans could be that factor. My neighbors kids are bright and they are shopping for the cheapest most affordable route to get a degree because they don’t want student debt. I have inlaws who’s kids are carrying 70-90k worth of debt and they went to great schools like Emorson and the University of Wisconsin. They graduate and have huge debt bills every month. I don’t even think I’d go to Michigan State these days with the costs and debt. I think a lot of these kids are broke, drowning in debt, working crappy jobs and pissed off.

I don't know if I'd call that expanding the base, but that and other areas (such as those that want a shake up in DC) are certainly areas that he can get significant votes from that other democrats now and in the past, would have trouble with.

But color me skeptical about the young vote turning out. It seems like they always say that young people can swing the election, and then people get their hopes up that they will be activated....and then the voting numbers are pretty flat. Bernie does seem to connect more with that crowd than in the past, but I'm not counting on that.

Well he's abandoning the old classic appeal to the center - left model. If he can't expand it I just don't see how he wins.

Student debt is a huge motivating factor for me. I’m in my 40s and I didn’t pay off my student debt until I was 35. I had a lot less than some of my peers too. People shouldn’t have to go through that. And it’s a bigger problem in already financially strapped black and brown communities. I don’t know if free college is the answer but I know that squeezing young people so that they are never financially secure enough to get a house or have kids is disgusting and the exact wrong way to go about it.

I think if and when he gets the nomination and more people are exposed to exactly what his plans are, he will secure the “base”. It’s going to be a dog fight regardless of the nominee.

steveschneider wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:
I don't know if I'd call that expanding the base, but that and other areas (such as those that want a shake up in DC) are certainly areas that he can get significant votes from that other democrats now and in the past, would have trouble with.

But color me skeptical about the young vote turning out. It seems like they always say that young people can swing the election, and then people get their hopes up that they will be activated....and then the voting numbers are pretty flat. Bernie does seem to connect more with that crowd than in the past, but I'm not counting on that.

Well he's abandoning the old classic appeal to the center - left model. If he can't expand it I just don't see how he wins.

What do you consider the base? Anyone that would vote for him? I consider the base to be the registered Democrats or those who identify themselves as Democrats. Not as a one-off for a single election, but those who are likely to consistently vote Democrat over the years. Bernie, or whoever else wins the nomination, will get that base. Especially against Trump.

There are definitely centrists, and left leaning centrists, that might not be crazy about Bernie's politics, but I would certainly expect most of those, especially left-leaning, to be ABT (Anyone But Trump).

AvgMSUJoe wrote:

The Pantry wrote:Why are none of you on the Bloomberg train?

The fact that he's buying his way into this thing is exactly what is wrong. (I love Warren's proposal to clean up Washington)

That said, id vote for him all day over cocksucker.

Washington will never be cleaned up. I'd rather see the medical industry and tax code cleaned up, but those aren't gonna happen either.

Bloomberg offices getting vandalized.

https://twitter.com/mike2020/status/1232004382436274178?s=21

Don’t expect Sanders’ recent surge to be welcomed by main stream tv media.

My wife watches CBS Morning and NBC Evening News with Lester Holt regularly. I’ll watch professional and college sports on the major broadcast stations. If you have the time and can tolerate watch for a day or two you’ll notice Big Pharma, Big healthcare and the financial industry buy a boat load of advertising. Just those 3 groups ad buys keep network ad revenue afloat in non-Presidential years.

The suits at Network corporate have little interest in a potential President who wants to rock the boat and greatly reduce future ad revenue. Trump is good for their business model. Cost controls of Big Pharma, slashing billions by allowing restructure or forgiveness of student loans and cutting billions in expenditures on private health insurance isn’t in the best interest of their bottom line.

GRR Spartan wrote:Don’t expect Sanders’ recent surge to be welcomed by main stream tv media.

My wife watches CBS Morning and NBC Evening News with Lester Holt regularly. I’ll watch professional and college sports on the major broadcast stations. If you have the time and can tolerate watch for a day or two you’ll notice Big Pharma, Big healthcare and the financial industry buy a boat load of advertising. Just those 3 groups ad buys keep network ad revenue afloat in non-Presidential years.

The suits at Network corporate have little interest in a potential President who wants to rock the boat and greatly reduce future ad revenue. Trump is good for their business model. Cost controls of Big Pharma, slashing billions by allowing restructure or forgiveness of student loans and cutting billions in expenditures on private health insurance isn’t in the best interest of their bottom line.

Not to mention the tax hikes them and their own bosses would see.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

steveschneider wrote:Bloomberg offices getting vandalized.

https://twitter.com/mike2020/status/1232004382436274178?s=21

I suspect it was the Bloomberg campaign in an attempt to stay relevant and gain sympathy.

I'm with you, Bob, this seems fishy. Vandalism at 6 different offices, photos all shared at the same time. Seems too coincidental to have all happened in that compressed of a time frame. Unless they were sitting on the first five until the sixth happened, which would be odd behavior.

Considering Bloomberg has been buying memes and influencers, I'm thinking this might just be another stunt.

Cameron wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote: I suspect it was the Bloomberg campaign in an attempt to stay relevant and gain sympathy.

I'm with you, Bob, this seems fishy. Vandalism at 6 different offices, photos all shared at the same time. Seems too coincidental to have all happened in that compressed of a time frame. Unless they were sitting on the first five until the sixth happened, which would be odd behavior.

Considering Bloomberg has been buying memes and influencers, I'm thinking this might just be another stunt.

Okay.

Politico - Bloomberg’s debate strategy: Nuke Bernie

Odds Bloomberg tries to blame Bernie Bros for the vandalism?

Uh oh

https://twitter.com/nytpolitics/status/1232296208837771265?s=21

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