There have been 74 shootings at American Schools since Newtown

DWags wrote:

This is the overly emotional knee jerk reaction that only those faced with the reality of facts with lash out with. It's also a reason why there will never be compromise in this country. Too many way to emotional folk on both sides of the issue.

We'll just keep hoping that another incident doesn't happen. If it does, we'll pray for the victims and run to the message boards and say why we shouldn't be thinking of changing anything.

When you focus on the utensils used in the tragedies and refuse to acknowledge the root cause of them, you lose credibility. Facts are not proof...

You could use your logic to push for the ban of automobiles.

The anti gun nuts are trolling hard in the name of their political dogma. They are the minority that is terrorizing the rational truth of the issue.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2014/06/gun_deaths_in_children_statistics_show_firearms_endanger_kids_despite_nra.html

Research shows:

"Children between the ages of 5 and 14 in the United States are 17 times more likely to be murdered by firearms than children in other industrialized nations."

"In light of empirical reality, the safest policy is not having a gun in the home."

on behalf of all gun right's advocates across the fruited plains, I'd like to take a moment to celebrate these young men and the way they choose to celebrate their 2nd Amendment right..

please join me, the NRA and all freedom-loving patriots as we honor these young men and provide them with the admiration and respect that they truly deserve..

Freedom-loving Americans Celebrating their 2nd Amendment Right

steveschneider wrote:http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2014/06/gun_deaths_in_children_statistics_show_firearms_endanger_kids_despite_nra.html

Research shows:

"Children between the ages of 5 and 14 in the United States are 17 times more likely to be murdered by firearms than children in other industrialized nations."

"In light of empirical reality, the safest policy is not having a gun in the home."

you have a problem with a child's freedom to be murdered?

WCS wrote:

When you focus on the utensils used in the tragedies and refuse to acknowledge the root cause of them, you lose credibility. Facts are not proof...

You could use your logic to push for the ban of automobiles.

The anti gun nuts are trolling hard in the name of their political dogma. They are the minority that is terrorizing the rational truth of the issue.

It would seem that alcohol is a much broader problem than guns. So how come the liberal elitists aren't clamoring to ban alcohol?

http://ncadd.org/index.php/learn-about-alcohol/alcohol-and-crime

tTito wrote:

It would seem that alcohol is a much broader problem than guns. So how come the liberal elitists aren't clamoring to ban alcohol?

http://ncadd.org/index.php/learn-about-alcohol/alcohol-and-crime

I can't speak for everyone else, but I'm busy pertectin' m'famly..

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
you have a problem with a child's freedom to be murdered?

I'm looking for an article I saw in the Guardian. It basically talked about how there was a lot of research done on auto accidents and how the fatalities were greatly reduced and then it went on to talk about how there wasn't any research at the time on guns and what the cause is behind the spree killings.

I think that's going to change, and we should get to a point where we'll be able to understand why they happen and how to reduce them.

steveschneider wrote:

I'm looking for an article I saw in the Guardian. It basically talked about how there was a lot of research done on auto accidents and how the fatalities were greatly reduced and then it went on to talk about how there wasn't any research at the time on guns and what the cause is behind the spree killings.

I think that's going to change, and we should get to a point where we'll be able to understand why they happen and how to reduce them.

Here's some research for you on gun crime generally, an uber liberal who took an honest scientific approach to the issue and became a gun rights advocate.

http://civilliberty.about.com/od/profiles/a/Gary-Kleck-Biography.htm

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
I can't speak for everyone else, but I'm busy pertectin' m'famly..

I didn't think you would have a rational response for that.

steveschneider wrote:

I'm looking for an article I saw in the Guardian. It basically talked about how there was a lot of research done on auto accidents and how the fatalities were greatly reduced and then it went on to talk about how there wasn't any research at the time on guns and what the cause is behind the spree killings.

I think that's going to change, and we should get to a point where we'll be able to understand why they happen and how to reduce them.

agree completely...

and I might be dumb (as the one guy that has been posting in this thread on a fairly consistent basis seems to believe) but I understand that minimizing the availability and number of guns isn't the only answer. It's certainly a large part of it - we need to learn to value life in our society, parents need to be parents.. we need to admit that emotional health is as important as our physical health and rid society of the stigma associated with mental health needs..

and, yes, the gun nuts need to understand that it's not okay for children to be murdered at school - or anywhere. Until all of these things are addressed, our society will continue to devolve. The problem is that there is a LOT of money to be made off of people's irrational fear and paranoia. And, as we know, money is the American way.

tTito wrote:

I didn't think you would have a rational response for that.

sorry.. my knuckles were too busy draggin' the ground to type effectively.

PERTECT!

steveschneider wrote:



I think that's going to change, and we should get to a point where we'll be able to understand why they happen and how to reduce them.

Till then, I say arm yourself to the teeth and shoot before axin questions.

DWags wrote:

Till then, I say arm yourself to the teeth and shoot before axin questions.  

definitely... pertect.

WCS wrote:

The hashtag mentality is a sign of weakness. It favors symbolism over reality. "I hashtagged in protest! I'm a great person! I contributed to the solution!"

Still no talk about the real problem, mental health illness, from the knuckle dragging anti-science anti-civil rights leftists who want to exploit these tragedies to push their political agendas.

Mental illness, not guns , is what should be banned

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
agree completely...

and I might be dumb (as the one guy that has been posting in this thread on a fairly consistent basis seems to believe) but I understand that minimizing the availability and number of guns isn't the only answer. It's certainly a large part of it - we need to learn to value life in our society, parents need to be parents.. we need to admit that emotional health is as important as our physical health and rid society of the stigma associated with mental health needs..

and, yes, the gun nuts need to understand that it's not okay for children to be murdered at school - or anywhere. Until all of these things are addressed, our society will continue to devolve. The problem is that there is a LOT of money to be made off of people's irrational fear and paranoia. And, as we know, money is the American way.

Yeah, gun owners think it's ok for children to be murdered at school. You truly do have an intellectually honest thought process, don't you?

tTito wrote:

Yeah, gun owners think it's ok for children to be murdered at school. You truly do have an intellectually honest thought process, don't you?

a gun nut has yet - in this thread - to denounce school shootings without caveat, nuance, explanation, justification, etc.

doesn't seem like it would be that difficult for a knuckle-dragger to simply say "school shootings are a tragedy".. instead, they see them as an opportunity to advance their twisted agenda.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
a gun nut has yet - in this thread - to denounce school shootings without caveat, nuance, explanation, justification, etc.

doesn't seem like it would be that difficult for a knuckle-dragger to simply say "school shootings are a tragedy".. instead, they see them as an opportunity to advance their twisted agenda.

No, it would seem that the haters call the law-abiding gun-owners "nuckle draggers" "gun nuts" and having "twisted agendas," while repeating cliche rhetoric such as "pertect family" all the while failing to repond to the post such as the Kleck study (above) and the bigger problems of mental health including the alcohol statisics I posted above. Anyone who makes the statement that gun owners have no problem with kids being murdered has mental health issues of his own.

tTito wrote:

No, it would seem that the haters call the law-abiding gun-owners "nuckle draggers" "gun nuts" and having "twisted agendas," while repeating cliche rhetoric such as "pertect family" all the while failing to repond to the post such as the Kleck study (above) and the bigger problems of mental health including the alcohol statisics I posted above. Anyone who makes the statement that gun owners have no problem with kids being murdered has mental health issues of his own.

thanks for proving my point that simply saying "school shootings are a tragedy" is difficult concept for a gun nut to grasp..

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
thanks for proving my point that simply saying "school shootings are a tragedy" is difficult concept for a gun nut to grasp..

You didn't prove anything.

tTito wrote:

You didn't prove anything.

bump..

Robert J Sakimano wrote:thanks for proving my point that simply saying "school shootings are a tragedy" is difficult concept for a gun nut to grasp..

This is sad at this point.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:



This is sad at this point.

Anyone who believes that there is a single person posting on this message board, who does not believe that school shootings are a tragedy, needs intensive therapy and medication.

Edit: This is where you call me names and start hurling cliche rhetoric.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:



This is sad at this point.

I know.. and I realize that it's a fruitless pursuit with these types of people..

but then I think of the fear must be going through the minds of kids (and their parents) as they hear the sound of gunfire in their building.. and the screams of their classmates.. and the sights that they see that can never be erased..

and, at the very least, I can point out how unbelievably detached some people (as evidenced in this thread) are when it comes to our collective moral responsibility versus their sick and twisted political agenda.

tTito wrote:

Anyone who believes that there is a single person posting on this message board, who does not believe that school shootings are a tragedy, needs intensive therapy and medication.

Edit: This is where you call me names and start hurling cliche rhetoric.

you're getting closer to admitting that school shootings are a tragedy.. you still have some distance to travel before you make that complete and total objective statement without caveat but I do appreciate the work you've put into it.

tTito wrote:

Anyone who believes that there is a single person posting on this message board, who does not believe that school shootings are a tragedy, needs intensive therapy and medication.

Edit: This is where you call me names and start hurling cliche rhetoric.

You're getting there. How about LooseGoose? Is he still on the "my rights to an assault rifle is more important than innocent lives" train?

WCS wrote:

When you focus on the utensils used in the tragedies and refuse to acknowledge the root cause of them, you lose credibility. Facts are not proof...

You could use your logic to push for the ban of automobiles.

The anti gun nuts are trolling hard in the name of their political dogma. They are the minority that is terrorizing the rational truth of the issue.

Just stop it. I started a whole thread on the use of psychotic drugs and the only link to every mass shooting. I did so in another thread because that's all that is left in this one are extremists on both sides. I jumped back into this one when that idiotic violent crime rate chart was posted and left without explanation as to why crimes were dropping.

Please continue your heaving shit at each other.

tTito wrote:

Here's some research for you on gun crime generally, an uber liberal who took an honest scientific approach to the issue and became a gun rights advocate.

http://civilliberty.about.com/od/profiles/a/Gary-Kleck-Biography.htm

I read your link and then did a google search and found that this study was long ago proven completely bogus.

Robert J Sakimano wrote: just look at the gun nut's refusal to denounce school shootings in this very thread..

You've certainly fell in love with that strawman. Keep knocking it down, you're really impressing people with your insight and intellect compared to the knuckle draggers.

LooseGoose wrote:

You've certainly fell in love with that strawman.   Keep knocking it down, you're really impressing people with your insight and intellect compared to the knuckle draggers.

It's difficult to argue with the mentally ill.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:You're getting there. How about LooseGoose? Is he still on the "my rights to an assault rifle is more important than innocent lives" train?

Your use of the term "assault rifle" shows your complete ignorance and unwillingness to learn anything on a subject you want to debate, and yet you claim gun rights advocates are intellectually shallow knuckle draggers.

According to the last available statistics from the FBI nearly twice as many people (aka innocent lives) were killed bare handed as were killed using rifles of any type. So let's see how much you care about innocent lives.

Hands like yours killed twice as many people as rifles like mine, I'll have my rifle melted down as soon as you have your doubly dangerous hands cut off. Using your logic that should prove that we both care about innocent lives.

LooseGoose wrote:

Your use of the term "assault rifle" shows your complete ignorance and unwillingness to learn anything on a subject you want to debate, and yet you claim gun rights advocates are intellectually shallow knuckle draggers.

According to the last available statistics from the FBI nearly twice as many people (aka innocent lives) were killed bare handed as were killed using rifles of any type.   So let's see how much you care about innocent lives.  

Hands like yours killed twice as many people as rifles like mine, I'll have my rifle melted down as soon as you have your doubly dangerous hands cut off.  Using your logic that should prove that we both care about innocent lives.

So more deflection from guns. Still not admitting school shootings are a tragedy. Got it.

Your continued avoidance of handguns, the WMD of choice in the U.S. is comical, LooseGoose.

You really have no idea how psycho that is, do you?

DWags wrote:

Just stop it. I started a whole thread on the use of psychotic drugs and the only link to every mass shooting. I did so in another thread because that's all that is left in this one are extremists on both sides. I jumped back into this one when that idiotic violent crime rate chart was posted and left without explanation as to why crimes were dropping.

Please continue your heaving shit at each other.

The only extremists in this thread are the leftists. I invite all of them to join me in the middle of the issue and focus on the issue at hand.

They are the ones heaving shit. Us realists are responding with logic and objectivity.

WCS wrote:

The only extremists in this thread are the leftists. I invite all of them to join me in the middle of the issue and focus on the issue at hand.

They are the ones heaving shit. Us realists are responding with logic and objectivity.

The way to address the mental health problem is to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally deficient. Does that address your problem? I'm all for requiring mental health professionals to check a box when they see a patient that says this person may or should not own a firearm at this time.

WCS wrote:

The only extremists in this thread are the leftists. I invite all of them to join me in the middle of the issue and focus on the issue at hand.

They are the ones heaving shit. Us realists are responding with logic and objectivity.

I would join you, but disagree about the root cause. I think it goes deeper than mental illness and touches on a social science concept referred to as social capital. Beyond that the issue touches on social inequality as well. Here is a good read with links to actual academic studies.

WCS wrote:

The only extremists in this thread are the leftists. I invite all of them to join me in the middle of the issue and focus on the issue at hand.

They are the ones heaving shit. Us realists are responding with logic and objectivity.

When the Islamic extremists hijacked the airliners we armed the pilots and put locks on the cockpit door. We intensified the screening process. No more hijackings.

Every school district in this Country has the ability to increase security if they really want to, but most do not. I regularly walk walk right into my kids' elementary school without any scrutiny watsoever. Apparently my school district is not as concerned as the gun-haters. Of course the gun haters refuse to consider such common-sense solutions as security guards and metal detectors because securing the schools is not their real concern. They use school shootings as an excuse to further their agenda.

I do find it ironic that we value our money so we keep it in a bank vault yet we leave our children exposed to an occasional mentally disturbed homicidal maniac in a setting that is so open to the public.

tTito wrote:

When the Islamic extremists hijacked the airliners we armed the pilots and put locks on the cockpit door. We intensified the screening process. No more hijackings.

Every school district in this Country has the ability to increase security if they really want to, but most do not. I regularly walk walk right into my kids' elementary school without any scrutiny watsoever. Apparently my school district is not as concerned as the gun-haters. Of course the gun haters refuse to consider such common-sense solutions as security guards and metal detectors because securing the schools is not their real concern. They use school shootings as an excuse to further their agenda.

I do find it ironic that we value our money so we keep it in a bank vault yet we leave our children exposed to an occasional mentally disturbed homicidal maniac in a setting that is so open to the public.

It costs money that districts don't have (many due to Schools of Choice or Charters -- right wing darlings) to install metal detectors in every school along with someone to attend them (the go off when detecting other things besides guns, you know. It cost nothing to a school district to prevent the guns from getting in the hands of the psychotic person in the first place. Full registration, licensing, and laws requiring the secure storage of guns to prevent someone other than the owner from using them are reasonable.

Rocinante wrote:

The way to address the mental health problem is to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally deficient.  Does that address your problem?  I'm all for requiring mental health professionals to check a box when they see a patient that says this person may or should not own a firearm at this time.

This is good theoretically, but it won't work practically. The federal government would then have to have access to all of our medical records. So much for confidentiallity and right to privacy. No psychologist would check the box because they would lose the patient and an agency like NSA would wind up black-listing everyone who ever saw a counselor.

Rocinante wrote:

It costs money that districts don't have (many due to Schools of Choice or Charters -- right wing darlings) to install metal detectors in every school along with someone to attend them (the go off when detecting other things besides guns, you know.  It cost nothing to a school district to prevent the guns from getting in the hands of the psychotic person in the first place.  Full registration, licensing, and laws requiring the secure storage of guns to prevent someone other than the owner from using them are reasonable.

I disagree with this speculation. The poorest inner-city schools are the ones that do have metal detectors and security already. It's the schools like my kids', Sandy Hook, Columbine - the wealthier ones - that don't have any type of security in place. It's because no believes it will happen here. And, in reallity it very rarely does.

It would be very easy to search every kid's back pack and run the wand over them when they come into the building. All it would take is two or three $12.00 per hour type security guards.