NRA Has Themselves Another School Shooting..

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Counter point- 

Doesn’t anyone else look at the fuckin sources or is that just me? Gary Kleck? That’s what you brought here? For fucks sake. Didn’t we all go to MSU or no? You know there’s a reason all those professors made you provided sources for your shit.

Anyway here’s a link about how that three million number is extremely ludicrous. Enjoy your reading, don’t care about your reply. 

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/defensive-gun-ownership-myth-114262

This is from the CDC study that President Obama ordered in 2013. Kleck's survey is one of the survey's used. They even mention the issues with it being at the higher end of the spectrum of surveys and then go on to provide one at the extreme low end of the spectrum (the NCVS data) and explain the issues with that, also. One of the issues with the article you provided is they only take into account legal gun owners (or frequency) when questioning the amount of home burglaries stopped by someone armed. No survey is going to be perfect. Which is why they make the statement "at least as common as criminal use" and start their most credible estimate at 500,000 defensive occurrences (compared to 300k criminal uses).

Do you have any more credible studies/surveys that contradict those numbers?

Here's Kleck's response to the criticisms in the article Travis posted, if anyone's interested.

Defensive Gun Use Is Not A Myth

Which is really just a follow up of his original refutation of Hemingway's criticism (which is really what Travis' article is referencing);

Degrading Scientific Standards to Get the Defensive Gun Use Estimate Down

Rocinante wrote:

xsanguine wrote:

Well.... first of all, who are they? The same people that give death threats to anyone in the public sphere with a controversial opinion?

And for the record, many in attendance and at least one event speaker indicated their goal is a gun ban. That is the end goal. That’s how these death of a thousand cuts slippery slopes work.

Just so you guys know. I want assault style rifles and HC mags banned (even for handguns - I think 7? yeah, 7 round mags max). It doesn't have to be retroactive, but the ban will include a ban on parts, and aftermarket accessories, sales or commercial repair of existing rifles will also be illegal, even person to person, and if you buy rounds that can be used in them, you have to sign an affidavit saying that these rounds are not to be used in a banned firearm.

So I don't know exactly what these kids want, but that's my first step.

My opinion on this is evolving. I am starting to warm up more to the idea of no bans, but a nationally mandated registration of all guns at a minimal cost and some kind of penalty if you don't report your gun stolen and they are use in a crime.

Long article, but if you have a chance, read it and then tell me it's just about the guns.
https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2018/04/10/sperrybroward_art.html
Another example of how the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I.B. Fine wrote:Long article, but if you have a chance, read it and then tell me it's just about the guns.
https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2018/04/10/sperrybroward_art.html
Another example of how the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Oh my God that is an honest to God "it's Obama's fault" mind fuck. That is race bating, cherry picking garbage. Let's completely ignore the FL R super majority and their war on public schools and the poor. That is an especially horrible article, even at the low standards of this place. Regardless... Sure there are lots of factors, and there were multiple places where this could have been headed off. But that's a different argument that the gun reform activists are making. Regardless of all the other factors that could have prevented it, if we assume that passion-motivated shootings are going to happen regardless of the laws (which NRA consistently does) then the tools available to a killer are an important factor in how much damage he can do. That's why this knife deaths in london thing is a canard. It's not about the crime, it's about the sheer numbers. Should reforms be comprehensive? Of course. But let's argue the same points instead of talking past each other.

I.B. Fine wrote:Long article, but if you have a chance, read it and then tell me it's just about the guns.
https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2018/04/10/sperrybroward_art.html
Another example of how the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I didn't read the article - because I don't read articles.. but I don't know of anyone that has ever said the issue is "just about guns".

but I will tell you that the NRA is a terrorist organization.

Rocinante wrote:

I.B. Fine wrote:Long article, but if you have a chance, read it and then tell me it's just about the guns.
https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2018/04/10/sperrybroward_art.html
Another example of how the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Oh my God that is an honest to God "it's Obama's fault" mind fuck.  That is race bating, cherry picking garbage.  Let's completely ignore the FL R super majority and their war on public schools and the poor.  That is an especially horrible article, even at the low standards of this place.  Regardless... Sure there are lots of factors, and there were multiple places where this could have been headed off.  But that's a different argument that the gun reform activists are making.  Regardless of all the other factors that could have prevented it, if we assume that passion-motivated shootings are going to happen regardless of the laws (which NRA consistently does) then the tools available to a killer are an important factor in how much damage he can do.  That's why this knife deaths in london thing is a canard.  It's not about the crime, it's about the sheer numbers.  Should reforms be comprehensive?  Of course.  But let's argue the same points instead of talking past each other.

and that's why I don't read articles.. I simply refuse to buy into the propaganda that is regularly spewed in them.

god, America is a stupid country.