There are some new allegations

Apparently a lawsuit has surfaced in which a female is accusing 3 MSU basketball players of possibly drugging her at Harpers after the Final Four, luring her back to someone's apartment and raping her. The allegations also include statements that MSU staff talked her out of moving forward with pressing charges.

http://www.wilx.com/content/news/MSU-student-sues-university-over-handling-of-rape-by-3-basketball-players-479181923.html

Welp shut it down

Jesus. I’m going media blackout.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Apparently a lawsuit has surfaced in which a female is accusing 3 MSU basketball players of possibly drugging her at Harpers after the Final Four, luring her back to someone's apartment and raping her. The allegations also include statements that MSU staff talked her out of moving forward with pressing charges.

http://www.wilx.com/content/news/MSU-student-sues-university-over-handling-of-rape-by-3-basketball-players-479181923.html

She may well be 100% truthful. If there was no police report, no examination and 10 months to ask for help then I don't know where the BB staff would be found in the wrong.

I doubt it was athletic staff at the counseling center, I guess if that were the case then it's entirely different.

It would seem odd that counselors would "Michigan State University Counseling Center where Jane Doe reported the rape to a counselor and completed an intake and assessment." do all that then try to talk her out of filing a report when in essence that's what she just did.

If it has no merit or evidence, it doesn’t matter at this point. If this girl is telling the truth, I hope that the three players burn. Including any counselor who talked her out of it. I’m only hitting the swill up from here on out. If

I don't know whether the allegations are true or not and I'm not going to pass judgement on that. However I will pass judgement on this.

DEAR MSU ATHLETES - STOP WITH THE FUCKING GANGBANGS

The new AD should pass a rule, any athlete suspected of engaging in sexual conduct that is not 1 on 1 will be thrown off the team.

Jane Doe is suing MSU and employees/counselors. No mention of the players being sued (or charged).

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I don't know whether the allegations are true or not and I'm not going to pass judgement on that. However I will pass judgement on this.

DEAR MSU ATHLETES - STOP WITH THE FUCKING GANGBANGS

The new AD should pass a rule, any athlete suspected of engaging in sexual conduct that is not 1 on 1 will be thrown off the team.

No zones. Strictly man to man.

DWags wrote:If it has no merit or evidence, it doesn’t matter at this point. If this girl is telling the truth, I hope that the three players burn. Including any counselor who talked her out of it. I’m only hitting the swill up from here on out. If

I've now read the News, Freep and LSJ versions of the story. All much the same but some details different.

I have no idea whether it's true or not, at this point the worst will be assumed. These lawyers know that.

DWags wrote:

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I don't know whether the allegations are true or not and I'm not going to pass judgement on that. However I will pass judgement on this.

DEAR MSU ATHLETES - STOP WITH THE FUCKING GANGBANGS

The new AD should pass a rule, any athlete suspected of engaging in sexual conduct that is not 1 on 1 will be thrown off the team.

No zones. Strictly man to man.

Exactly. We refuse to play zone on the court, not doing it off the court either.

I just read the lawsuit.

Some of it sounds bad, but of course, this is strictly from the perspective of the suing attorneys, so of course it will sound bad (such as citing the OTL report as fact to support this...while also contradicting Paula's other article from around the time of the incident by claiming that athletes receive special treatment in criminal cases at MSU).

If this is true, it is obviously horrific behavior by the players. And absolutely horrific behavior by the counselors. The latter is what seems more implausible to me. It's not like there was even time for Hollis or Don Izzo to strong arm them. The way this reads, is that sexual assault counselors immediately told her to drop it, so one really has to question these counselors. Obviously, the lawyers want to paint the picture that it was MSU that made them do this. And I'm sure the counselors would claim that they were ordered to quash any such claims, but do multiple counselors--sexual assault counselors--really have such little conscience and regard for others that they would try to quash a forced, drugged, gang rape, quite possibly committing a felony themselves (intimidation or coercion to stop someone from pressing charges)?

And if this is true, why does her friend take her to these counselors first instead of to the hospital to get checked out, tests, a rape kit done, etc.? Even if she is hesitant to go to the police, a hospital is logical, isn't it? I'm not blaming her friend by any means, but is this the process that students think (thought) that they should go through if raped? Go to a counselor first, not for any medical attention? This would be an open and shut case, if she had done that. There'd be evidence (I think) of the drugs, evidence of the sex, and quite possibly evidence of it being rough or forced.

MiamiSpartan wrote:I just read the lawsuit.

Some of it sounds bad, but of course, this is strictly from the perspective of the suing attorneys, so of course it will sound bad (such as citing the OTL report as fact to support this...while also contradicting Paula's other article from around the time of the incident by claiming that athletes receive special treatment in criminal cases at MSU).

If this is true, it is obviously horrific behavior by the players. And absolutely horrific behavior by the counselors. The latter is what seems more implausible to me. It's not like there was even time for Hollis or Don Izzo to strong arm them. The way this reads, is that sexual assault counselors immediately told her to drop it, so one really has to question these counselors. Obviously, the lawyers want to paint the picture that it was MSU that made them do this. And I'm sure the counselors would claim that they were ordered to quash any such claims, but do multiple counselors--sexual assault counselors--really have such little conscience and regard for others that they would try to quash a forced, drugged, gang rape, quite possibly committing a felony themselves (intimidation or coercion to stop someone from pressing charges)?

And if this is true, why does her friend take her to these counselors first instead of to the hospital to get checked out, tests, a rape kit done, etc.? Even if she is hesitant to go to the police, a hospital is logical, isn't it? I'm not blaming her friend by any means, but is this the process that students think (thought) that they should go through if raped? Go to a counselor first, not for any medical attention? This would be an open and shut case, if she had done that. There'd be evidence (I think) of the drugs, evidence of the sex, and quite possibly evidence of it being rough or forced.

Doesn’t matter at this point. We as a university community are guilty. Paula’s head line will read “counselors at MSU talk rape victim into not pressing charges”.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I don't know whether the allegations are true or not and I'm not going to pass judgement on that. However I will pass judgement on this.

DEAR MSU ATHLETES - STOP WITH THE FUCKING GANGBANGS

The new AD should pass a rule, any athlete suspected of engaging in sexual conduct that is not 1 on 1 will be thrown off the team.

I recommended the same thing last year. Even if drunkenly "consentual", the morning shame and shaming could be extreme. It's just a bad deal all around.

Small thing....but 3 different stories.....3 different time lines on how long she waited to report:

WILX

The next morning she called a taxi and went back to her dorm room. When she met her roommate, she found out that her roommate didn't know anything about the "party" and had been looking for Jane Doe but could not find her.

Jane Doe was traumatized from the events. She confided in a second individual from her dorm room. That friend took her to the Michigan State University Counseling Center where Jane Doe reported the rape to a counselor and completed an intake and assessment.

DetNews

The next morning, the victim went home and told a friend what had happened, the suit says.

The following week, she went to MSU’s counseling center, where officials allegedly told her she could go to police, but implied that it was not in her best interest to report the assault, according to the suit.

Freep - says the incident occurred 4/11 - 4/12.

The lawsuit says on April 20, 2015, the woman reported the rape to a counselor at the Michigan State University Counseling Center and completed an initial intake and assessment. When she disclosed to the counselor the three men who allegedly raped her were MSU basketball players, the female counselor’s demeanor reportedly changed and told the alleged victim she needed another person in the room with them. According to the woman, it was not clear who the additional person was or why they were brought into the room.

DWags wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:I just read the lawsuit.

Some of it sounds bad, but of course, this is strictly from the perspective of the suing attorneys, so of course it will sound bad (such as citing the OTL report as fact to support this...while also contradicting Paula's other article from around the time of the incident by claiming that athletes receive special treatment in criminal cases at MSU).

If this is true, it is obviously horrific behavior by the players. And absolutely horrific behavior by the counselors. The latter is what seems more implausible to me. It's not like there was even time for Hollis or Don Izzo to strong arm them. The way this reads, is that sexual assault counselors immediately told her to drop it, so one really has to question these counselors. Obviously, the lawyers want to paint the picture that it was MSU that made them do this. And I'm sure the counselors would claim that they were ordered to quash any such claims, but do multiple counselors--sexual assault counselors--really have such little conscience and regard for others that they would try to quash a forced, drugged, gang rape, quite possibly committing a felony themselves (intimidation or coercion to stop someone from pressing charges)?

And if this is true, why does her friend take her to these counselors first instead of to the hospital to get checked out, tests, a rape kit done, etc.? Even if she is hesitant to go to the police, a hospital is logical, isn't it? I'm not blaming her friend by any means, but is this the process that students think (thought) that they should go through if raped? Go to a counselor first, not for any medical attention? This would be an open and shut case, if she had done that. There'd be evidence (I think) of the drugs, evidence of the sex, and quite possibly evidence of it being rough or forced.

Doesn’t matter at this point. We as a university community are guilty. Paula’s head line will read “counselors at MSU talk rape victim into not pressing charges”.

Why would the counselor's names not be on the lawsuit?

It would seem that MSU would have records of who she talked to on 4/20/2015. Who was counselor #1 would definitely be there, Counselor #1 should be able to identify counselor #2.

Could they have been telling her that her case was tougher because of the 8 day wait and no physical evidence? And she misconstrued that as them telling her not to file a case?

LooseGoose wrote:Small thing....but 3 different stories.....3 different time lines on how long she waited to report:

WILX

The next morning she called a taxi and went back to her dorm room. When she met her roommate, she found out that her roommate didn't know anything about the "party" and had been looking for Jane Doe but could not find her.

Jane Doe was traumatized from the events. She confided in a second individual from her dorm room. That friend took her to the Michigan State University Counseling Center where Jane Doe reported the rape to a counselor and completed an intake and assessment.

DetNews

The next morning, the victim went home and told a friend what had happened, the suit says.

The following week, she went to MSU’s counseling center, where officials allegedly told her she could go to police, but implied that it was not in her best interest to report the assault, according to the suit.

Freep - says the incident occurred 4/11 - 4/12.

The lawsuit says on April 20, 2015, the woman reported the rape to a counselor at the Michigan State University Counseling Center and completed an initial intake and assessment. When she disclosed to the counselor the three men who allegedly raped her were MSU basketball players, the female counselor’s demeanor reportedly changed and told the alleged victim she needed another person in the room with them. According to the woman, it was not clear who the additional person was or why they were brought into the room.

To be fair, that's just because reporters pretty much suck, and are trying to not just rewrite the lawsuit. So it's not inconsistencies in the story, only the reporting of the story.

LooseGoose wrote:Small thing....but 3 different stories.....3 different time lines on how long she waited to report:

WILX

The next morning she called a taxi and went back to her dorm room. When she met her roommate, she found out that her roommate didn't know anything about the "party" and had been looking for Jane Doe but could not find her.

Jane Doe was traumatized from the events. She confided in a second individual from her dorm room. That friend took her to the Michigan State University Counseling Center where Jane Doe reported the rape to a counselor and completed an intake and assessment.

DetNews

The next morning, the victim went home and told a friend what had happened, the suit says.

The following week, she went to MSU’s counseling center, where officials allegedly told her she could go to police, but implied that it was not in her best interest to report the assault, according to the suit.

Freep - says the incident occurred 4/11 - 4/12.

The lawsuit says on April 20, 2015, the woman reported the rape to a counselor at the Michigan State University Counseling Center and completed an initial intake and assessment. When she disclosed to the counselor the three men who allegedly raped her were MSU basketball players, the female counselor’s demeanor reportedly changed and told the alleged victim she needed another person in the room with them. According to the woman, it was not clear who the additional person was or why they were brought into the room.

The only time line that matters is in the lawsuit.

It really does suck that she waited 8 days to do anything about reporting this. There is no
one at the University to blame for that.

Had she gone directly to the police the next morning then none of this would exist now.

Either it would have been investigated and charged then or at least there would be a good record
to work from. Her lawyers seem to skip right over that initial delay.

Strange that she doesn't seem to have retained any paper work from this traumatic event since
she's suing Jane Does rather than having a name.

Interesting that 8 months into her journalism studies the University had failed to teach her that
getting drunk and going to an athlete's apartment was not a normal way of getting a story.

Here is where we ask ourselves, are we conditioned to be skeptical, or should we believe first and get on the counselors. Which is it for you guys?

All that aside, our university has forever been pulverized by this. I’m guessing it’s going to tumble in every aspect more than we think.

Love me some victim blaming. Nice work goose! Keep it up!

DWags wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:I just read the lawsuit.

Some of it sounds bad, but of course, this is strictly from the perspective of the suing attorneys, so of course it will sound bad (such as citing the OTL report as fact to support this...while also contradicting Paula's other article from around the time of the incident by claiming that athletes receive special treatment in criminal cases at MSU).

If this is true, it is obviously horrific behavior by the players. And absolutely horrific behavior by the counselors. The latter is what seems more implausible to me. It's not like there was even time for Hollis or Don Izzo to strong arm them. The way this reads, is that sexual assault counselors immediately told her to drop it, so one really has to question these counselors. Obviously, the lawyers want to paint the picture that it was MSU that made them do this. And I'm sure the counselors would claim that they were ordered to quash any such claims, but do multiple counselors--sexual assault counselors--really have such little conscience and regard for others that they would try to quash a forced, drugged, gang rape, quite possibly committing a felony themselves (intimidation or coercion to stop someone from pressing charges)?

And if this is true, why does her friend take her to these counselors first instead of to the hospital to get checked out, tests, a rape kit done, etc.? Even if she is hesitant to go to the police, a hospital is logical, isn't it? I'm not blaming her friend by any means, but is this the process that students think (thought) that they should go through if raped? Go to a counselor first, not for any medical attention? This would be an open and shut case, if she had done that. There'd be evidence (I think) of the drugs, evidence of the sex, and quite possibly evidence of it being rough or forced.

Doesn’t matter at this point. We as a university community are guilty. Paula’s head line will read “counselors at MSU talk rape victim into not pressing charges”.

Well, I would expect her headline to be a LOT worse than that.

Regardless, it does matter. Yeah, the public perception will be terrible regardless, but it matters for my own perception.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Love me some victim blaming. Nice work goose! Keep it up!

Goose has an affinity for being an asshole.

I'm so tired of all of this. Let me know how it all washes out. I'm done trying to figure out what is real and what is made up.

NigelUno wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Love me some victim blaming. Nice work goose! Keep it up!

Goose has an affinity for being an asshole.

I’m sure he would have been calm cool and collected if something like this happened to him. Logical at every step of the way. Random message boarders with 40 more years of life under their belt couldn’t question his steps.

And MLive now has their story up:

The sexual assault allegation is the third against members of the Spartans basketball program in a span of five years.

In April 2010, a woman reported to the school's athletic department that she was sexually assaulted by Michigan State student assistant Travis Walton and two players, according to ESPN. The incident was not reported to police and no action was taken against the players.

Later that year, a woman claimed Michigan State basketball players Keith Appling and Adreian Payne sexually assaulted her in a dorm room. No charges were filed in the case.

Walton "incident" still seems to be pretty thin gruel.

This one.

And Payne/Appling cleared by 3 prosecutors.

But the avalanche is considered guilt.   It sucks.

Not pointed out is that the 5 years referenced were 2010-2015 and NONE of the allegations have stood up in a court at this point.

DWags wrote:Here is where we ask ourselves, are we conditioned to be skeptical, or should we believe first and get on the counselors. Which is it for you guys?

All that aside, our university has forever been pulverized by this. I’m guessing it’s going to tumble in every aspect more than we think.

Harns just wrote something along the lines of: (1) Believe the victim; and (2) Believe in innocence before guilt.

So, I guess, I believe something happened. I believe having waited those days, the counselors were trying to gauge the situation, her state of mind, and whether she may have been capable of dealing with it. I doubt there are all these evil people running around that are almost implied in these situations.

I go back to how fucking stupid players are if they get involved in running train on somebody. I can't imagine it's as sexually motivated as it is power and peer motivated. It's fucking idiotic.

Here is something else I'm worried about... if it turns out that the 3 players are the same 3 players who transferred from the program... that is very damning. If that is the case, there needs to be some explaining.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Love me some victim blaming. Nice work goose! Keep it up!

Specifically point out to me where I'm blaming the victim for being raped? God you throw out some stupid accusations.

In your mind is criticizing her for not reporting a rape for 8 days blaming her for getting raped?

I clearly state I wish the hell she HAD reported it sooner.

LooseGoose wrote:It really does suck that she waited 8 days to do anything about reporting this. There is no
one at the University to blame for that.

Had she gone directly to the police the next morning then none of this would exist now.

Either it would have been investigated and charged then or at least there would be a good record
to work from. Her lawyers seem to skip right over that initial delay.

Strange that she doesn't seem to have retained any paper work from this traumatic event since
she's suing Jane Does rather than having a name.

Interesting that 8 months into her journalism studies the University had failed to teach her that
getting drunk and going to an athlete's apartment was not a normal way of getting a story.

I get not going to the police right away. That's a difficult path to start down right after a traumatic incident like this. But to not go to Olin or Sparrow, or some clinic? I guess I can understand that maybe she was embarrassed, traumatized, etc. But damn, 25 years ago when I was at State they would tell people to go to Olin to get checked out after an assault, even a physical one. For one thing, you get your own health checked out (even more important when there are potential implications of STDs). For another, they collect evidence (rape kit, or in the case of physical assault, photos and maybe DNA of the other person in the form of skin or blood), which comes in handy should you ever choose to pursue a civil or criminal case.

This is in no way blaming the victim, nor absolving the players of guilt. I don't know either way. But there would be hard evidence if she had gone to get checked out.

SawGreen wrote:Here is something else I'm worried about... if it turns out that the 3 players are the same 3 players who transferred from the program... that is very damning. If that is the case, there needs to be some explaining.

I believe only 2 players from that team transferred - Bess & Clark - both FR at the time. Would they have an apartment and cars?

MiamiSpartan wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:It really does suck that she waited 8 days to do anything about reporting this. There is no
one at the University to blame for that.

Had she gone directly to the police the next morning then none of this would exist now.

Either it would have been investigated and charged then or at least there would be a good record
to work from. Her lawyers seem to skip right over that initial delay.

Strange that she doesn't seem to have retained any paper work from this traumatic event since
she's suing Jane Does rather than having a name.

Interesting that 8 months into her journalism studies the University had failed to teach her that
getting drunk and going to an athlete's apartment was not a normal way of getting a story.

I get not going to the police right away. That's a difficult path to start down right after a traumatic incident like this. But to not go to Olin or Sparrow, or some clinic? I guess I can understand that maybe she was embarrassed, traumatized, etc. But damn, 25 years ago when I was at State they would tell people to go to Olin to get checked out after an assault, even a physical one. For one thing, you get your own health checked out (even more important when there are potential implications of STDs). For another, they collect evidence (rape kit, or in the case of physical assault, photos and maybe DNA of the other person in the form of skin or blood), which comes in handy should you ever choose to pursue a civil or criminal case.

This is in no way blaming the victim, nor absolving the players of guilt. I don't know either way. But there would be hard evidence if she had gone to get checked out.

BS - wait until OTPT reads it - he'll have you in the room holding her down.

NigelUno wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Love me some victim blaming. Nice work goose! Keep it up!

Goose has an affinity for being an asshole.

Fuck you. You're a born jerk.

How am I doing?

tGreenWay wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

Specifically point out to me where I'm blaming the victim for being raped? God you throw out some stupid accusations.

In your mind is criticizing her for not reporting a rape for 8 days blaming her for getting raped?

I clearly state I wish the hell she HAD reported it sooner.

I don’t believe you were blaming the victim ITT, but it would be refreshing to see you practice what you preach on tBin.

Ah, I'd say the same about others. But I wasn't trying to mix bullshit into this thread.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:I don't know whether the allegations are true or not and I'm not going to pass judgement on that. However I will pass judgement on this.

DEAR MSU ATHLETES - STOP WITH THE FUCKING GANGBANGS

The new AD should pass a rule, any athlete suspected of engaging in sexual conduct that is not 1 on 1 will be thrown off the team.

So gross anyway. What if your junk touches his junk. Or what if you catch one of the other dudes looking deeply into your eyes.

Speaking from experience, Roc?

LooseGoose wrote:

SawGreen wrote:Here is something else I'm worried about... if it turns out that the 3 players are the same 3 players who transferred from the program... that is very damning. If that is the case, there needs to be some explaining.

I believe only 2 players from that team transferred - Bess & Clark - both FR at the time. Would they have an apartment and cars?

Yeah, with the apartment thing, I don't think it could be... unless they were visiting.