Re: Santa Anita horse deaths

by **kingstonlake** Sun May 21, 2023 7:12 pm

A step in the right direction would be to ban dirt tracks. They're statistically higher in on track catastrophic injuries. Almost 2-1 vs synthetic tracks. Turf racing is also safer for horses. But the powers that be won't do it. A dirt track horse is usually a better horse. Probably for all the wrong reasons. Santa Anita has almost quadrupled their rate of horse deaths since they went from synthetic to dirt around 2010.

Santa Anita horse deaths - Page 2 Screen11

Santa Anita horse deaths - Page 2 Screen12

by **DWags** Sun May 21, 2023 8:17 pm

kingstonlake wrote:A step in the right direction would be to ban dirt tracks. They're statistically higher in on track catastrophic injuries. Almost 2-1 vs synthetic tracks. Turf racing is also safer for horses. But the powers that be won't do it. A dirt track horse is usually a better horse. Probably for all the wrong reasons. Santa Anita has almost quadrupled their rate of horse deaths since they went from synthetic to dirt around 2010.

I was actually at the finish line ( maybe 30 yards before it) when 8 bells broke her legs crossing. Big brown won. I think that was 08 or 09. I mean we we drunk having a great time. Actually the wives did it up with dresses and hats. Wife ended up winning north of 500 on 8 bells placing. It went from euphoria to absolute silence. I’m talking 150k+ Dead silent. Then the equine ambulance came. Fuuuuuuuuccccck. Friends were texting us what was happening. We were kind of in the dark. Just sucked. Car ride from Louisville back to Cincy was quiet. Side note, my wife announces in the car she’s giving her winnings to peta My friend and I said, “no you’re not” at the same time. Donate something but not all. if I recall it was near 7 or 8 hundred.

by **Cameron** Sun May 21, 2023 11:08 pm

Travis has touched on this, but it seems like the treatment for horse injuries is literally always euthanasia, and that doesn't seem right to me. I just gotta imagine actually fixing them is crazy expensive. Owning a healthy horse isn't fucking cheap, so I can only imagine how much it costs to own an injured one. And I don't imagine rehabbed horses win many races, so...

by **DWags** Sun May 21, 2023 11:25 pm

Cameron wrote:Travis has touched on this, but it seems like the treatment for horse injuries is literally always euthanasia, and that doesn't seem right to me. I just gotta imagine actually fixing them is crazy expensive. Owning a healthy horse isn't fucking cheap, so I can only imagine how much it costs to own an injured one. And I don't imagine rehabbed horses win many races, so...

But their sperm might someday.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** Sun May 21, 2023 11:41 pm

Cameron wrote:Travis has touched on this, but it seems like the treatment for horse injuries is literally always euthanasia, and that doesn't seem right to me. I just gotta imagine actually fixing them is crazy expensive. Owning a healthy horse isn't fucking cheap, so I can only imagine how much it costs to own an injured one. And I don't imagine rehabbed horses win many races, so...

Yeah, and we only talk about the horses that make it to those big famous tracks at all. How many get hurt at their facilities, are never really good enough for racing, etc etc. what happens to them?

by **kingstonlake** Mon May 22, 2023 10:33 am

I'm not a vet obviously but I think leg/ankle injuries are pretty much a death sentence for most horses. Something to do with disease settling in? Plus they're not "agreeable" to immobilization. I had to cage my dog for two weeks because of a torn ACL. No such thing for a horse.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** Mon May 22, 2023 10:55 am

kingstonlake wrote:I'm not a vet obviously but I think leg/ankle injuries are pretty much a death sentence for most horses. Something to do with disease settling in? Plus they're not "agreeable" to immobilization. I had to cage my dog for two weeks because of a torn ACL. No such thing for a horse.

I mentioned this earlier, but no they aren’t death sentences. That’s a popular myth due to horse racing folks constantly executing their horses because they’re now worthless to them, but they’re absolutely fixable.

by **Trapper Gus** Mon May 22, 2023 11:03 am

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:I'm not a vet obviously but I think leg/ankle injuries are pretty much a death sentence for most horses. Something to do with disease settling in? Plus they're not "agreeable" to immobilization. I had to cage my dog for two weeks because of a torn ACL. No such thing for a horse.

I mentioned this earlier, but no they aren’t death sentences. That’s a popular myth due to horse racing folks constantly executing their horses because they’re now worthless to them, but they’re absolutely fixable.

Are you sure?

There was a derby winner a few years ago where the owners tried to save it from a broken leg. It didn't work.

by **kingstonlake** Mon May 22, 2023 11:07 am

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:I'm not a vet obviously but I think leg/ankle injuries are pretty much a death sentence for most horses. Something to do with disease settling in? Plus they're not "agreeable" to immobilization. I had to cage my dog for two weeks because of a torn ACL. No such thing for a horse.

I mentioned this earlier, but no they aren’t death sentences. That’s a popular myth due to horse racing folks constantly executing their horses because they’re now worthless to them, but they’re absolutely fixable.

Horses have little to no support outside of bone structure below the knee. It's all tendons, blood vessels, nerves, and ligaments. And they are almost certain to reject required
immobilization. Clean breaks have a chance at regaining some functionality. But quite often they are shatter events that surgery can't fix. Also infection is almost guaranteed.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** Mon May 22, 2023 11:53 am

Dudes, this isn’t coming from me or anything i personally know. I do not know how they fix the horses. This is coming from people I know that run the large animal clinic at MSU and care for horses every day. They have told me that in most cases the horses can be saved, but that race owners in particular choose not to for money reasons. Imma take their word on that.

by **kingstonlake** Mon May 22, 2023 12:19 pm

I'm just giving feedback from my cousin who graduated MSU vet school. I think there is a "quality of life" angle that is subjective depending on the situation. I'd guess that there are many cases where the horse is save-able if you want to spend $100,000 + but I think it's reasonable to say if I owned a horse for pleasure I'd have it euthanized in that case. I don't have 100k laying around. It's fait to argue the ethical angle to horse racing as well in regards to euthanized horses and some simple changes could be made to lower that percentage

by **Travis of the Cosmos** Mon May 22, 2023 12:25 pm

I’m pretty confident that $100,000 is wildly overstating things.

by **Trapper Gus** Mon May 22, 2023 12:27 pm

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Dudes, this isn’t coming from me or anything i personally know. I do not know how they fix the horses. This is coming from people I know that run the large animal clinic at MSU and care for horses every day. They have told me that in most cases the horses can be saved, but that race owners in particular choose not to for money reasons. Imma take their word on that.

Makes sense. It depends on the injury.

by **kingstonlake** Mon May 22, 2023 1:25 pm

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:I’m pretty confident that $100,000 is wildly overstating things.

Barbaros owners spent half a million to try and save him.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** Mon May 22, 2023 1:27 pm

kingstonlake wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:I’m pretty confident that $100,000 is wildly overstating things.
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:I’m pretty confident that $100,000 is wildly overstating things.

Barbaros owners spent half a million to try and save him.

In most cases $100,000 is wildly overstating things*

Better?

by **kingstonlake** Mon May 22, 2023 1:29 pm

Sorry. Forgot to link the article. I didn't even consider the daily cost of intensive care needed to keep a horse on track to heal. $400-$1000

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/31/sports/othersports/31barbaro.html

by **NigelUno** Mon May 22, 2023 1:30 pm

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
kingstonlake wrote:

Barbaros owners spent half a million to try and save him.

In most cases $100,000 is wildly overstating things*

Better?

Is "they're absolutely fixable" overstating things?

by **Travis of the Cosmos** Mon May 22, 2023 1:33 pm

NigelUno wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

In most cases $100,000 is wildly overstating things*

Better?

Is "they're absolutely fixable" overstating things?

Yes nigel, thank you very much. I should have said, “most of the horses that these monsters execute are absolutely fixable, but a tiny fraction are not.”

by **kingstonlake** Mon May 22, 2023 1:55 pm

Chicken Parmesan tonight. But they're not "pretty".....

by **NigelUno** Mon May 22, 2023 2:36 pm

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
NigelUno wrote:

Is "they're absolutely fixable" overstating things?

Yes nigel, thank you very much. I should have said, “most of the horses that these monsters execute are absolutely fixable, but a tiny fraction are not.”

Most race horses are absolutely fixable? Why would you even pretend that you know this?

by **Motown Spartan** Mon May 22, 2023 3:15 pm

NigelUno wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Yes nigel, thank you very much. I should have said, “most of the horses that these monsters execute are absolutely fixable, but a tiny fraction are not.”

Most race horses are absolutely fixable? Why would you even pretend that you know this?

They are. However, the cost for care, rehab, and to keep a horse alive that will never race again far exceed the cost to euthanize.

by AvgMSUJoe Mon May 22, 2023 5:27 pm

It's a pharmacy in those things. Drugs to increase the oxygen in the blood during the race, but a little too much and they bleed into their lungs... drugs to stop lactic acid build up but too much more bleeding issues... horses are just race machines for many/most... if they die, cestlavie. Move to the next.

by **tGreenWay** Fri Jun 02, 2023 7:53 pm

Churchill Downs goes full stop on races as it investigates the deaths of 12 horsies.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/02/sports/horse-racing/churchill-downs-deaths-horseracing.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

by **kingstonlake** Fri Jun 02, 2023 9:46 pm

Moving meet to Ellis Park. Wow.

by **Cameron** Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:57 am

Nothing about horse racing suggests that there is any value for society in continuing to do it.

by **tGreenWay** Sat Jun 03, 2023 12:03 pm

Beware the diner nearest Churchill Downs if they have a sale on burgers soon.

by **GRR Spartan** Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:27 pm

Today, Stronach Group that owns Santa Anita Park, Pimlico Race Course and Gulfstream Park in FL along with several race courses announced its closing Golden Gate Fields in November ‘23 so it can get more racing days at Santa Anita.

Golden Gate Fields closing

by **kingstonlake** Mon Jul 17, 2023 4:13 pm

Dying a slow death.

by **Motown Spartan** Sun Nov 12, 2023 9:54 pm

Fascinating piece on 60 Minutes right now about doping in horse racing. Fucking disgusting.

by **kingstonlake** Sun Nov 12, 2023 9:57 pm

Saw that it was on. Didn’t watch. I just assume it’s pretty much a doper sport with a lot of corrupt trainers.

Something about watching a horse run is incredible.

by AvgMSUJoe Sun Nov 12, 2023 9:59 pm

That's the point of the sport really. How much drugging can you do without killing the horse or getting caught.

Like bike races.

by AvgMSUJoe Sun Nov 12, 2023 10:25 pm

Or college football according to um... lol.

by **tGreenWay** Sun Nov 12, 2023 11:16 pm

by **tGreenWay** Sun Nov 12, 2023 11:17 pm

Damnit! Wrong thread. I meant to post this in the horse faces thread.

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