How Much Damage Did OTL Do?

That piece of shit report defamed our two coaches and I actually think it did Dantonio in.

There's a lot of people that firmly believe he's covering stuff up and is a really evil man that is letting his players get away with serious crimes. I used to see them all the time on Twitter, Facebook and calling in during Valenti's show. I know people like to write this shit off as knuckle dragger places but truth is these folks are empowered and they have a megaphone now with the internet.

Sadly perception is reality and that piece of shit program created a horrible perception about those two. I think because the Max Bullough suspension was done in a way where they didn't release details to the public (for good reason) and then the 2016 debacle even though Dantonio did the right thing we live in a fact free world now where people believe he was covering up for those players. I think Dantonio was a casualty to the OTL report. Fuck youuuuu ESPN!

I’ll go with 0-5%

Sooooo a lot less than a rival coach sitting on a recruits coach and telling him the team that’s 107th in total offense is keeping the same staff.

kingstonlake wrote:I’ll go with 0-5%

Sooooo a lot less than a rival coach sitting on a recruits coach and telling him the team that’s 107th in total offense is keeping the same staff.

Correct. Sadly, recruits don't give a shit about this stuff. PSU had a massive scandal actually involving the football program where a guy went to prison for LIFE and it took, what, like 2 years before they were recruiting at an elite level again?

Probably has more to do with Blackwell and poisoning the well in Detroit than anything else. I think there are a myriad of issues.
1) Its implied here and elsewhere that the assistant coaches don't do a good job recruiting.
2) Other coaches are paying attention to who MSU recruits, especially if it is under the radar and poaching those recruits. I have no idea if this is true and I don't really pay attention to recruiting.
3) The O-Line is a complete disaster.
4-20) Lots of other issues
21) The OTL report.

If you are getting all your information from Detnews or Freep or ESPN, then you are correct.

Banks2Mason wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:I’ll go with 0-5%

Sooooo a lot less than a rival coach sitting on a recruits coach and telling him the team that’s 107th in total offense is keeping the same staff.

Correct. Sadly, recruits don't give a shit about this stuff. PSU had a massive scandal actually involving the football program where a guy went to prison for LIFE and it took, what, like 2 years before they were recruiting at an elite level again?

I don't know though, I think they are different. Dantonio can sell pro receivers in the NFL and pro QBs. I mean does that good will fade that fast?

steveschneider wrote:

Banks2Mason wrote:

Correct. Sadly, recruits don't give a shit about this stuff. PSU had a massive scandal actually involving the football program where a guy went to prison for LIFE and it took, what, like 2 years before they were recruiting at an elite level again?

I don't know though, I think they are different. Dantonio can sell pro receivers in the NFL and pro QBs. I mean does that good will fade that fast?

Honestly, I don't think they were ever particularly good recruiters, especially on offense.

I guess my one call out vs PSU is that things are so much more fact free now. I really see people spouting off loony stuff about Dantonio covering stuff up, being a big time cheater and that he's a terrible human suppressing justice.  I felt like people had all sorts of opinions about Joe Pa and PSU but I felt like most of the debates were around information from the news papers. This is just loony infowars/Qanon level conspiracy around him and I think OTL really fed into it.

steveschneider wrote:

Banks2Mason wrote:

Correct. Sadly, recruits don't give a shit about this stuff. PSU had a massive scandal actually involving the football program where a guy went to prison for LIFE and it took, what, like 2 years before they were recruiting at an elite level again?

I don't know though, I think they are different. Dantonio can sell pro receivers in the NFL and pro QBs. I mean does that good will fade that fast?

I don’t know Steve. I still think it’s a hard sell.

Banks2Mason wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

I don't know though, I think they are different. Dantonio can sell pro receivers in the NFL and pro QBs. I mean does that good will fade that fast?

Honestly, I don't think they were ever particularly good recruiters, especially on offense.

I agree on OL, but they have big time pro RB, QB and some WRs in the league. Was it just blind luck?

kingstonlake wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

I don't know though, I think they are different. Dantonio can sell pro receivers in the NFL and pro QBs. I mean does that good will fade that fast?

I don’t know Steve. I still think it’s a hard sell.

So then I was right about needing to modernize the offense?

steveschneider wrote:

Banks2Mason wrote:

Honestly, I don't think they were ever particularly good recruiters, especially on offense.

I agree on OL, but they have big time pro RB, QB and some WRs in the league. Was it just blind luck?

It's very possible. Cook, Cousins, and Bell were all very low-rated recruits and we lucked out hard.

steveschneider wrote:I guess my one call out vs PSU is that things are so much more fact free now. I really see people spouting off loony stuff about Dantonio covering stuff up, being a big time cheater and that he's a terrible human suppressing justice.  I felt like people had all sorts of opinions about Joe Pa and PSU but I felt like most of the debates were around information from the news papers. This is just loony infowars/Qanon level conspiracy around him and I think OTL really fed into it.

What and where were you reading stuff, or hearing it? Granted, outside of game days, I don't pay a lot of attention, I have too many other things going on in my life.

InTenSity wrote:

steveschneider wrote:I guess my one call out vs PSU is that things are so much more fact free now. I really see people spouting off loony stuff about Dantonio covering stuff up, being a big time cheater and that he's a terrible human suppressing justice.  I felt like people had all sorts of opinions about Joe Pa and PSU but I felt like most of the debates were around information from the news papers. This is just loony infowars/Qanon level conspiracy around him and I think OTL really fed into it.

What and where were you reading stuff, or hearing it? Granted, outside of game days, I don't pay a lot of attention, I have too many other things going on in my life.

I've been told by virtually every MSU fan I know outside of Michigan that the OTL thing more or less came and went long ago.

InTenSity wrote:

steveschneider wrote:I guess my one call out vs PSU is that things are so much more fact free now. I really see people spouting off loony stuff about Dantonio covering stuff up, being a big time cheater and that he's a terrible human suppressing justice.  I felt like people had all sorts of opinions about Joe Pa and PSU but I felt like most of the debates were around information from the news papers. This is just loony infowars/Qanon level conspiracy around him and I think OTL really fed into it.

What and where were you reading stuff, or hearing it? Granted, outside of game days, I don't pay a lot of attention, I have too many other things going on in my life.

Twitter, FB and the Valenti show back in the day whenever the OTL piece came up. You'd hear grown adults call in convinced that he is covering shit up. I went to Twitter yesterday when I saw the Solari thing, go to the comment sections. Sadly we live in a fact free world where I think there's gotta be people around recruits, at high school power houses the regurgitate this shit and put it out there. Every article that Couch posts you'll see multiple Walverines accusing couch of covering up for Dantonio. I think this all ties into the fake news, fact free conspiracy world.

Also, I think a lot of these morons see the latest Blackwell thing as damning evidence.

Rcmb thread. Pass.

Just out of curiosity since I’m not sure does steve think it’s a fact free world or no

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Just out of curiosity since I’m not sure does steve think it’s a fact free world or no

I believe in more facts than you.

steveschneider wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Just out of curiosity since I’m not sure does steve think it’s a fact free world or no

I believe in more facts than you.

What #factfreeworld

Banks2Mason wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:I’ll go with 0-5%

Sooooo a lot less than a rival coach sitting on a recruits coach and telling him the team that’s 107th in total offense is keeping the same staff.

Correct. Sadly, recruits don't give a shit about this stuff. PSU had a massive scandal actually involving the football program where a guy went to prison for LIFE and it took, what, like 2 years before they were recruiting at an elite level again?

I can't find it now, but didn't KJ Hamler just tweet or say something to the effect that he wasn't sure about the integrity of some players at MSU?

SawGreen wrote:

Banks2Mason wrote:

Correct. Sadly, recruits don't give a shit about this stuff. PSU had a massive scandal actually involving the football program where a guy went to prison for LIFE and it took, what, like 2 years before they were recruiting at an elite level again?

I can't find it now, but didn't KJ Hamler just tweet or say something to the effect that he wasn't sure about the integrity of some players at MSU?

i don't personally recall it, but i believe on the broadcast of the game they "quoted" him as saying he saw some his friends at MSU going down the wrong path or something. which, depending on who those friends were, might be 100% accurate.

Banks2Mason wrote:

SawGreen wrote:

I can't find it now, but didn't KJ Hamler just tweet or say something to the effect that he wasn't sure about the integrity of some players at MSU?

i don't personally recall it, but i believe on the broadcast of the game they "quoted" him as saying he saw some his friends at MSU going down the wrong path or something. which, depending on who those friends were, might be 100% accurate.

Yeah, when they said that my first thought was if he was friends with Corely or others? Of course, ABC/ESPN isn't going to provide any context as to whether or not his friends might be pieces of shit, and/or have nothing to do with MSU athletics. Instead they imply that MSU turned them bad. Fuckwits.

But anyway, Steve is again proving Cameron right. How is the OTL report going to have this affect when the upperclassmen that should be our best players and leaders were recruited before any of that came out?

MiamiSpartan wrote:

Banks2Mason wrote:

i don't personally recall it, but i believe on the broadcast of the game they "quoted" him as saying he saw some his friends at MSU going down the wrong path or something. which, depending on who those friends were, might be 100% accurate.

Yeah, when they said that my first thought was if he was friends with Corely or others? Of course, ABC/ESPN isn't going to provide any context as to whether or not his friends might be pieces of shit, and/or have nothing to do with MSU athletics. Instead they imply that MSU turned them bad. Fuckwits.

But anyway, Steve is again proving Cameron right. How is the OTL report going to have this affect when the upperclassmen that should be our best players and leaders were recruited before any of that came out?

Not this is new. Wasn't the rumor that Malik's mom didn't want him to go to MSU due to the culture or whatever? Not that there isn't a "culture" at every big time college program. That's kind of how it works.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

Banks2Mason wrote:

i don't personally recall it, but i believe on the broadcast of the game they "quoted" him as saying he saw some his friends at MSU going down the wrong path or something. which, depending on who those friends were, might be 100% accurate.

Yeah, when they said that my first thought was if he was friends with Corely or others? Of course, ABC/ESPN isn't going to provide any context as to whether or not his friends might be pieces of shit, and/or have nothing to do with MSU athletics. Instead they imply that MSU turned them bad. Fuckwits.

But anyway, Steve is again proving Cameron right. How is the OTL report going to have this affect when the upperclassmen that should be our best players and leaders were recruited before any of that came out?

Miami, you have bitched about the OTL report just as much if not more than anyone on here. I know because I've enjoyed your rants/posts about it. I'm shocked you don't think this hasn't had an impact on the demise of MSU football.

steveschneider wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:
Yeah, when they said that my first thought was if he was friends with Corely or others? Of course, ABC/ESPN isn't going to provide any context as to whether or not his friends might be pieces of shit, and/or have nothing to do with MSU athletics. Instead they imply that MSU turned them bad. Fuckwits.

But anyway, Steve is again proving Cameron right. How is the OTL report going to have this affect when the upperclassmen that should be our best players and leaders were recruited before any of that came out?

Miami, you have bitched about the OTL report just as much if not more than anyone on here. I know because I've enjoyed your rants/posts about it. I'm shocked you don't think this hasn't had an impact on the demise of MSU football.

I absolutely have, and will always do so. But that came out in early 2018, and our junior and senior classes were already on campus. And our senior class specifically was part of a recruiting class that contributed to that report and has been a fucking disaster.

Even if I felt the OTL report was to blame, I would never give them credit for doing what they set out to do (damage the program), so I sure as hell aren't going to credit them for hurting recruiting of classes that were already here when they did the hatchet job.