Dueling Realities

About to give this one a listen.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/jay-rosen-on-right-wing-tv-drifting-further-from-real/id466789756?i=1000525927837

"Jay Rosen on right-wing TV drifting 'further from the real,' and how journalists should 'rethink and rebuild' to cover it"

He argues Fox hasn't moved further to the right they've moved further away from the real.

Current media isn't effective on covering the current radical GOP or their misinformation campaigns. They are afraid to look impartial/biased. Step one is to acknowledge they are a radical authoritarian party looking to undermine the truth and democracy. Step two is to report lies as lies.

Psaki subtweeted his ass into oblivion

I like the part where Gaetz shakes his head after the General mentions what he has read. It only confirms the GOP’s commitment to keeping people ignorant. They know it’s the only way they can win. The anti-intellectual current they have created is a real problem and contributes to these dueling realities.

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Just wow.

https://sports.yahoo.com/parkland-shooting-survivor-says-dad-190752331.html

"An anonymous survivor of the 2018 Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School shooting says their own father has been convinced it was a hoax and has even falsely accused them of "being part of it.""

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She's dumber than the SNL skit portrayed.

The fact Melissa Carone is getting g support from some factions of the GOP indicates how far off the rails the party has gone in 5 years. 

Same Melissa Carne was named in a cease and desist order filed by her former husband when she started distributing sexually explicit photos of herself to the ex and his new girlfriend to remind him what he left.

I think he left batshit crazy but that’s just my opinion

GRR Spartan wrote:The fact Melissa Carone is getting g support from some factions of the GOP indicates how far off the rails the party has gone in 5 years. 

Same Melissa Carne was named in a cease and desist order filed by her former husband when she started distributing sexually explicit photos of herself to the ex and his new girlfriend to remind him what he left.

I think he left batshit crazy but that’s just my opinion

Yep. I watched the Shields and Capehart segment the other night on PBS and good ol David Brooks talking about working together and compromise to get stuff done with the infrastructure bill.

The press is failing to recognize the threat and the moment. They are a fascist movement hell bent on fighting a loony culture war that is completely detached from reality.

California dad killed his kids over QAnon and 'serpent DNA' conspiracy theories, feds say: Matthew Taylor Coleman allegedly confessed to murdering his two young children in Mexico, telling officials he thought they would "grow into monsters."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1276611?__twitter_impression=true

Turtleneck wrote:California dad killed his kids over QAnon and 'serpent DNA' conspiracy theories, feds say: Matthew Taylor Coleman allegedly confessed to murdering his two young children in Mexico, telling officials he thought they would "grow into monsters."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1276611?__twitter_impression=true

Jesus. We are so fucked.

DWags wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:California dad killed his kids over QAnon and 'serpent DNA' conspiracy theories, feds say: Matthew Taylor Coleman allegedly confessed to murdering his two young children in Mexico, telling officials he thought they would "grow into monsters."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1276611?__twitter_impression=true

Jesus. We are so fucked.

We really are. Our society is unraveling.

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Holy shit. I mean these fuckers in Tennessee want to kill doctors and board members who voted for a mask mandate. I mean, the one guy with a hoarse voice is bonkers.

DWags wrote:Holy shit. I mean these fuckers in Tennessee want to kill doctors and board members who voted for a mask mandate. I mean, the one guy with a hoarse voice is bonkers.

There’s multiple videos like this one that are circulating on line. I fear we are going to see some real rough times ahead and not just because of Covid.

Book suggestion time. Some real good stuff written in 1979 that is even more relevant today. You are likely to find the revised edition from 1991. There is an excellent chapter on contributions to our cultural crisis made by our shaping of sports and athletics followed by an even better chapter on how public education has been shaped to feed into our narcissistic culture. The author was a professor at Univ. of Rochester, which is a member of the AAU. I know that is important to us at tSwill.

https://www.amazon.com/Culture-Narcissism-American-Diminishing-Expectations/dp/0393307387

I don't know about this website, but the summary is decent.

https://www.supersummary.com/the-culture-of-narcissism/summary/

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/05/1024741930/jane-mayer-dark-money-challenge-to-the-election-results

So much of this lunacy is well funded by billionaires. What's their motivation to destroy this country? Just doing it for tax cuts?

steveschneider wrote:https://www.npr.org/2021/08/05/1024741930/jane-mayer-dark-money-challenge-to-the-election-results

So much of this lunacy is well funded by billionaires.  What's their motivation to destroy this country? Just doing it for tax cuts?

This might be a good compliment to that. It's long. Hell, so long I haven't even finished it yet.

The Big Money Behind the Big Lie

edit: waitagoldarnminute, your article references the one I posted.

Floyd Robertson wrote:

steveschneider wrote:https://www.npr.org/2021/08/05/1024741930/jane-mayer-dark-money-challenge-to-the-election-results

So much of this lunacy is well funded by billionaires.  What's their motivation to destroy this country? Just doing it for tax cuts?

This might be a good compliment to that. It's long. Hell, so long I haven't even finished it yet.

The Big Money Behind the Big Lie

edit: waitagoldarnminute, your article references the one I posted.

Yeah, I gotta get around to reading that. The link I posted is just an interview.

It's pretty incredible to see just how much money is behind all this deranged bs. They touch upon the question what is the motivation behind it - is it useful for them or do they actually believe it. I have to believe they find it useful.

Either way it's pretty staggering how much fucking money is put into this horse shit.

steveschneider wrote:

Floyd Robertson wrote:

This might be a good compliment to that. It's long. Hell, so long I haven't even finished it yet.

The Big Money Behind the Big Lie

edit: waitagoldarnminute, your article references the one I posted.

Yeah, I gotta get around to reading that. The link I posted is just an interview.

It's pretty incredible to see just how much money is behind all this deranged bs. They touch upon the question what is the motivation behind it - is it useful for them or do they actually believe it. I have to believe they find it useful.

Either way it's pretty staggering how much fucking money is put into this horse shit.

The more I read that New Yorker article, the more the hair on the back of my neck stands up. It's downright scary the machinations being made in places like AZ where state legislatures could overturn the popular vote because they don't like the outcome.

Thought this was an alcohol abuse PSA. Guess not.

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Floyd Robertson wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

Yeah, I gotta get around to reading that. The link I posted is just an interview.

It's pretty incredible to see just how much money is behind all this deranged bs. They touch upon the question what is the motivation behind it - is it useful for them or do they actually believe it. I have to believe they find it useful.

Either way it's pretty staggering how much fucking money is put into this horse shit.

The more I read that New Yorker article, the more the hair on the back of my neck stands up. It's downright scary the machinations being made in places like AZ where state legislatures could overturn the popular vote because they don't like the outcome.

In Michigan they don't even have to worry about that. As long as a group gets the minimum amount of signatures required on a ballot petition our legislators can sign whatever it is into law. The petition no longer has to go to a public vote. Minority rule is now the law in our great state.

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Made me think of the old Dylan tune ‘With God on Our Side’.

steveschneider wrote:[tw]1429166332977762309?s=21[/tw]

Made me think of the old Dylan tune ‘With God on Our Side’.

So, how do you teach history and civics to those peoples kids?

DWags wrote:

steveschneider wrote:[tw]1429166332977762309?s=21[/tw]

Made me think of the old Dylan tune ‘With God on Our Side’.

So, how do you teach history and civics to those peoples kids?

How will this era of history be taught? At some point it’s going to have to be explained to be people in the future we elected an Orange reality tv star and during a global pandemic he told people to drink bleach during a televised press briefing and people did it.

https://www.insider.com/texans-drink-bleach-poison-control-warns-wont-cure-coronavirus-2020-8

Floyd Robertson wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

Yeah, I gotta get around to reading that. The link I posted is just an interview.

It's pretty incredible to see just how much money is behind all this deranged bs. They touch upon the question what is the motivation behind it - is it useful for them or do they actually believe it. I have to believe they find it useful.

Either way it's pretty staggering how much fucking money is put into this horse shit.

The more I read that New Yorker article, the more the hair on the back of my neck stands up. It's downright scary the machinations being made in places like AZ where state legislatures could overturn the popular vote because they don't like the outcome.

I found Ms. Mayer's article to be somewhat below her, and the New Yorker's, standards, with too much conjecture to go with the facts.  I haven't read her book on this, however, she has done earlier articles where she did more research and the language was less inflammatory.

So all that said, the wealthy are not any smarter or any less susceptible to conspiracy theories than anyone else.  Since the Russian Revolution there has been a subset of wealthy people in the world who seem to see everyone who is not wealthy as an enemy and they believe this mass of people, through the power of government, are actively planning on taking away all their wealth and power.  The Koch Family exemplifies this belief system, however they are just the poster child for a whole set of like minded wealthy people.  Ms. Mayer has detailed some of the actions this group of people has taken over the years in her reporting.  It seems that to them, their only defense against the rest of us is to take over the government and change the Constitution so they are protected from us.

edit - one thought about "why" people like the Koch Family believe these ideas is that they are hyper competitive, look at everything in their lives as competitions and believe everyone else in the world is the same. Thus, if they were of a normal income/wealth level they would be the one's trying to take all the money from the wealthy, and yes there is a very small group who wants to do that, and by that I mean take ALL the money, not just have somewhat higher taxes.

TrapperGus wrote:

Floyd Robertson wrote:

The more I read that New Yorker article, the more the hair on the back of my neck stands up. It's downright scary the machinations being made in places like AZ where state legislatures could overturn the popular vote because they don't like the outcome.

I found Ms. Mayer's article to be somewhat below her, and the New Yorker's, standards, with too much conjecture to go with the facts.  I haven't read her book on this, however, she has done earlier articles where she did more research and the language was less inflammatory.

So all that said, the wealthy are not any smarter or any less susceptible to conspiracy theories than anyone else.  Since the Russian Revolution there has been a subset of wealthy people in the world who seem to see everyone who is not wealthy as an enemy and they believe this mass of people, through the power of government, are actively planning on taking away all their wealth and power.  The Koch Family exemplifies this belief system, however they are just the poster child for a whole set of like minded wealthy people.  Ms. Mayer has detailed some of the actions this group of people has taken over the years in her reporting.  It seems that to them, their only defense against the rest of us is to take over the government and change the Constitution so they are protected from us.

edit - one thought about "why" people like the Koch Family believe these ideas is that they are hyper competitive, look at everything in their lives as competitions and believe everyone else in the world is the same. Thus, if they were of a normal income/wealth level they would be the one's trying to take all the money from the wealthy, and yes there is a very small group who wants to do that, and by that I mean take ALL the money, not just have somewhat higher taxes.

Welcome to this board. I have a lot to say about this but unfortunately have a busy morning. I'll come back around to this one...

TrapperGus wrote:…wealthy people in the world who seem to see everyone who is not wealthy as an enemy and they believe this mass of people, through the power of government, are actively planning on taking away all their wealth and power.

Hi.

Yeah count me in for taking away all of their wealth and power

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Yeah count me in for taking away all of their wealth and power

Not me. Taxes should be much higher as some of their wealth would be more productive for the economy elsewhere, and they have way too much power due to their wealth, but I'm not in the take it all camp.

Is “take 99% leaving Bezos with a paltry $2 billion” acceptable then? If he can’t figure out how to live off that then I guess he can pick up a job in one of his warehouses like everyone else.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Is “take 99% leaving Bezos with a paltry $2 billion” acceptable then? If he can’t figure out how to live off that then I guess he can pick up a job in one of his warehouses like everyone else.

Well a serious proposal would be to count the value of assets gained as income for incomes in the 1% and tax that on a graduated scale with the top rate being about 70%, maybe above 50 million or so, which would leave the wealthy plenty to play with.

My proposal is a serious proposal. Take 180 billion or whatever he has from Jeff Bezos and leave him with 2 billion. That is enough for him and his children and children’s children and children’s children’s children and after that the planet will be uninhabitable anyway. He doesn’t need the rest.

At a certain point, your zucks, your Bezos, your musks, they’re just hoarders. There is no purpose for them amassing more, they don’t need it. They have a mental condition that tells them they need more more more. So stop them. We will take the money back from them, and with it they can get the free medical care they so desperately need to address their issues. Also still have an absolutely absurd amount of money.

Speaking of, I don’t think most people can really conceptualize in their head what 1 billion dollars is, setting aside 180 billion. It’s more absurd than most think it is. It’s insulting how much money that is for one person to have and it should not be allowed.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:At a certain point, your zucks, your Bezos, your musks, they’re just hoarders. There is no purpose for them amassing more, they don’t need it. They have a mental condition that tells them they need more more more. So stop them. We will take the money back from them, and with it they can get the free medical care they so desperately need to address their issues. Also still have an absolutely absurd amount of money.

Speaking of, I don’t think most people can really conceptualize in their head what 1 billion dollars is, setting aside 180 billion. It’s more absurd than most think it is. It’s insulting how much money that is for one person to have and it should not be allowed.

Okay, how to do that legally?

Because it has to be legal.

Walking in and just taking it, though emotionally satisfying, will not cut the mustard.

Does it though? We’re talking on an obscure message board not writing legislation.

So, how do we do it legally. I dunno, write one law, then write another, then bing bang boom tax 99% of their assets

For the record, I can acknowledge that we’re probably not going to take all of Jeff Bezos’ assets then jettison him into the sun any time soon on account of living in an oligarchy where that kind of thing is impossible

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:For the record, I can acknowledge that we’re probably not going to take all of Jeff Bezos’ assets then jettison him into the sun any time soon on account of living in an oligarchy where that kind of thing is impossible

I'm still new here.

Turning around 70 years of history will take some time.

TrapperGus wrote:

Floyd Robertson wrote:

The more I read that New Yorker article, the more the hair on the back of my neck stands up. It's downright scary the machinations being made in places like AZ where state legislatures could overturn the popular vote because they don't like the outcome.

I found Ms. Mayer's article to be somewhat below her, and the New Yorker's, standards, with too much conjecture to go with the facts.  I haven't read her book on this, however, she has done earlier articles where she did more research and the language was less inflammatory.

So all that said, the wealthy are not any smarter or any less susceptible to conspiracy theories than anyone else.  Since the Russian Revolution there has been a subset of wealthy people in the world who seem to see everyone who is not wealthy as an enemy and they believe this mass of people, through the power of government, are actively planning on taking away all their wealth and power.  The Koch Family exemplifies this belief system, however they are just the poster child for a whole set of like minded wealthy people.  Ms. Mayer has detailed some of the actions this group of people has taken over the years in her reporting.  It seems that to them, their only defense against the rest of us is to take over the government and change the Constitution so they are protected from us.

edit - one thought about "why" people like the Koch Family believe these ideas is that they are hyper competitive, look at everything in their lives as competitions and believe everyone else in the world is the same. Thus, if they were of a normal income/wealth level they would be the one's trying to take all the money from the wealthy, and yes there is a very small group who wants to do that, and by that I mean take ALL the money, not just have somewhat higher taxes.

Agree with almost all this take. I read the NPR interview not the New Yorker interview so I can’t speak to your critique of the NYer article. This is from a 2017 one:

“ “Bob believes that human beings have no inherent value other than how much money they make. A cat has value, he’s said, because it provides pleasure to humans. But if someone is on welfare they have negative value. If he earns a thousand times more than a schoolteacher, then he’s a thousand times more valuable.” Magerman added, “He thinks society is upside down—that government helps the weak people get strong, and makes the strong people weak by taking their money away, through taxes.”

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/27/the-reclusive-hedge-fund-tycoon-behind-the-trump-presidency

What drew me to the Mercer Mayer article is I’m currently obsessed with all these school board anti mask rants at school boards and how bonkers these people are. When I hear them speak I believe they believe what they are saying and it’s tough to process because it just sounds so insane. Also, I know people say America has always had its nut jobs/crazy segment of its population but in my opinion not at this level. This is a new level. My question is what’s driving it? My dumb ass hypothesis is that the right just has more billionaires like Mercer that drives special interests, public opinion-research and right wing media. When I watch the clips I notice commonalities in some of the crazy rants, as of late they are calling medical Nazis, they a ruling from the Nuremberg trial that these masks rules violate. Just googled it a d here’s an article that fact checks this claim:

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-mandatory-mask-war-crime-idUSKBN2A52OU

Also, when the capitol bomber (remember him feels like a forgotten story at this point) in his rant he believed refugees from Afghanistan were going to get better healthcare than him. His wife needed certain cancer treatments and his insurance wouldn’t cover it and he was mad that immigrants were getting it. Ben Collins was able to locate the source of this BS to conservative FB groups.

https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/1428512776230686720?s=21

So I’m just trying to understand the new levels of lunacy our culture wars have reached and how detached from reality they are. To wrap up my hypothesis I think it’s just a decades long build up of an information system completely out of my view (Rush Limbaugh in the 90s, Fox News, Onan, Daily Caller etc) that’s pushing horse shit conspiracies to divide the population up, control them, and keep em angry at the press/government/institutions etc. it’s funded by wealthy people so they can avoid taxes and keep the government out of their hair so they can pollute. To a Mercer or Koch if democracy collapses or the planet burns it won’t matter because they got theirs and they’ll be dead and gone when that happens. Great people!

Steve - as you said yesterday, I will need to think about this a bit before providing a reply.

TrapperGus wrote:Steve - as you said yesterday, I will need to think about this a bit before providing a reply.

No response required, I found it therapeutic just to write down that stuff trying to make sense of the lunacy I've seen. I could be way off the mark. Who knows. I'm training a new employee at work and it's kept me super busy so tough to post.