Trump Supports Vaccines & Boosters, Yet ...

None of his crazy ass Trumpster voters do ...

Is this his Ellsworth Tooney / Gail Wynand moment?

Former President Trump pushed back against doubts about the efficacy of the COVID-19 vaccines during an interview with conservative media personality Candace Owens released Wednesday.

Why it matters: Despite being vaccinated himself, Trump has sometimes given mixed signals to his supporters on whether they should take the shot. Trump-supporting communities, meanwhile, have seen markedly lower vaccination rates.

https://www.axios.com/trump-candace-owens-dying-vaccine-covid-92fd3eb3-f5ec-4167-8649-113903119de1.html

I started this thread with an Ayn Rand literary reference, which I suspect few understand, so here is what it means.

In her book, "The Fountainhead" Rand has a newspaper publisher, Gail Wynand, who runs sort of a "Fox News" operation, and a star columnist, Ellsworth Tooney, who is sort of a Rush Limbaugh, who channels the will of the mob of the uneducated population.  Wynand believes he controls the mob via his newspaper, however it turns out that the mob controls what his paper can say and remain relevant, which Tooney knows.

There is a confrontation and Tooney and the mob win.

Trump and the Republicans are having this moment, now.  They have the "deplorable mob" on their side, except the mob has now gone further down the road to Armagedón than Trump et al want to travel, and Trump et al are discovering that the mob, not Trump et al, that are in charge.  Thus, the mob is rejecting Trump as he calls for vaccinations.

edit - btw, it is the same "mob" that upset Trump et al's plan to overturn the election in Congress.  The mob rioted, not part of Trump's plan, and scared enough of Trump's allies in Congress so that they called off the plan to endlessly delay the completion of the count of the electors.

Trapper, no one cares. Sorry.

Sure, but you care.

Bredo Morstoel wrote:Trapper, no one cares. Sorry.

Ask the families of the 800k Americans who are dead if they care.

I think it is smart politics for Trump to start supporting vaccinations, as it scoops up a few people who will take it as a sign he is not completely crazy.

Trapper Gus wrote:I think it is smart politics for Trump to start supporting vaccinations, as it scoops up a few people who will take it as a sign he is not completely crazy.

Also, he wants to take credit for the vaccine. Whether he runs for office or not, his ego needs that. And he should get credit to some extent (nowhere near the credit he claims when he says "I developed 3 vaccines").

MiamiSpartan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:I think it is smart politics for Trump to start supporting vaccinations, as it scoops up a few people who will take it as a sign he is not completely crazy.

Also, he wants to take credit for the vaccine. Whether he runs for office or not, his ego needs that. And he should get credit to some extent (nowhere near the credit he claims when he says "I developed 3 vaccines").

When he says that I think he means that he didn't stop the development. For a number of other covid actions Trump stopped them from happening to punish blue states which of course made things worse.

PennSpartan wrote:
Ask the families of the 800k Americans who are dead if they care.

Welcome to Biden’s pandemic. It’s just as bad as Trump’s was.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/12/13/biden-trump-covid-deaths/

RQA wrote:

PennSpartan wrote:
Ask the families of the 800k Americans who are dead if they care.

Welcome to Biden’s pandemic. It’s just as bad as Trump’s was.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/12/13/biden-trump-covid-deaths/

The people who are dying are Trump's people by about a 5 to 1 ratio.

https://acasignups.net/21/12/27/weekly-update-covid19-casedeath-rates-county-partisan-lean-vaccination-rate

RQA wrote:

PennSpartan wrote:
Ask the families of the 800k Americans who are dead if they care.

Welcome to Biden’s pandemic. It’s just as bad as Trump’s was.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/12/13/biden-trump-covid-deaths/

Are you talking about the same Trump who said it would go away with the warm weather? The guy who wanted to inject bleach? The guy insisted Hydroxychloroquine was the answer? That guy?

Trapper Gus wrote:

RQA wrote:

Welcome to Biden’s pandemic. It’s just as bad as Trump’s was.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/12/13/biden-trump-covid-deaths/

The people who are dying are Trump's people by about a 5 to 1 ratio.

https://acasignups.net/21/12/27/weekly-update-covid19-casedeath-rates-county-partisan-lean-vaccination-rate

Collateral damage.  A few hundred thousand Trump supporters dying, especially when most are in Red states, is an acceptable loss to gain millions of votes of neutrals that they hope to get by saying, "See, Covid got worse under Biden."  

This is why the pro-Seditionists in politics and the right wing media have been pushing vaccine skepticism and anti-masking, even despite getting the vaccine themselves in some cases.

This isn't conspiracy talk, this is the logical strategy based on the fact that Covid lost them the White House and Congress.  Especially for a group of people that were willing to sacrifice lives in order to get the economy going before the last election.  No one can claim with a straight face that these same politicians and talking heads would push the same vaccine skepticism if Trump had won.

Between the people who just want to "own the libs" and the media's fixation on the negative, aka like does anyone realize this has been the best year for the economy, employment & income growth for the 99% since almost forever, certainly the best since the 1950's / 1960's, however, no one is aware because it isn't on the "ticker" at the bottom on the screen, there is a reasonable chance it might work.

Trapper Gus wrote:Between the people who just want to "own the libs" and the media's fixation on the negative, aka like does anyone realize this has been the best year for the economy, employment & income growth for the 99% since almost forever, certainly the best since the 1950's / 1960's, however, no one is aware because it isn't on the "ticker" at the bottom on the screen, there is a reasonable chance it might work.

Growth relative to 2020, right? That's important context.

Where is the economy relative to 2019? I honestly don't know, so I'm genuinely asking. I would expect it to still be down, which would be very understandable. 2022 vs 2021 will be a better comparison than 2021 vs 2020.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:Between the people who just want to "own the libs" and the media's fixation on the negative, aka like does anyone realize this has been the best year for the economy, employment & income growth for the 99% since almost forever, certainly the best since the 1950's / 1960's, however, no one is aware because it isn't on the "ticker" at the bottom on the screen, there is a reasonable chance it might work.

Growth relative to 2020, right?  That's important context.  

Where is the economy relative to 2019?  I honestly don't know, so I'm genuinely asking.  I would expect it to still be down, which would be very understandable.  2022 vs 2021 will be a better comparison than 2021 vs 2020.

GDP is higher now than it was at its peak before, in 2020.  https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GDP#0

It looks like the percentage growth will be around 6% for 2021.  That is a huge number, GDP hasn't grown at that rate for 40 years plus, no matter what base year or method is used.  So no, it is not because of what happened in 2020.

UE3 is below where in was in Q1 2017, and the number is considered full employment. (edit - and for the number buffs, the LFPR has been moving up, aka the UE3 number is not because of fewer people looking for jobs)

People bitching about supply problems seem to keep missing the fact that these are the result of an increase in demand to levels higher than in 2019.

Lowest levels of people going on UE, jobs for anyone who wants one, wages increase by double digits percentage wise for the lower 50%, the US economy far outperforming the rest of the globe, economically it is "Morning in America".

The polls show this, in that people are saying their personal situations are very good while the watch the media and worry about the economy.  An economy that is going gangbusters.

PennSpartan wrote:
Are you talking about the same Trump who said it would go away with the warm weather? The guy who wanted to inject bleach? The guy insisted Hydroxychloroquine was the answer? That guy?

Your guy promised the following:
1. Guaranteed regular, reliable and free access to testing
2. Double the number of drive through testing sites and increase the numbers until there are no more lines
3. Build a national contact tracing source, starting by hiring at least 100,000....

(He accomplished none of that)

But he was handed a vaccine.

His outcome? Worse than than the previous guy!

He now says there is no federal solution. He should have told us that during the campaign instead of lying about his "Xiden Plan"

RQA wrote:

PennSpartan wrote:
Are you talking about the same Trump who said it would go away with the warm weather?  The guy who wanted to inject bleach?  The guy insisted Hydroxychloroquine was the answer?  That guy?  

Your guy promised the following:
1.  Guaranteed regular, reliable and free access to testing
2. Double the number of drive through testing sites and increase the numbers until there are no more lines
3. Build a national contact tracing source, starting by hiring at least 100,000....

(He accomplished none of that)

But  he was handed a vaccine.

His outcome?  Worse than than the previous guy!

He now says there is no federal solution.     He should have told us that during the campaign instead of lying about his "Xiden Plan"

Please provide a link to those claims.
Edit: The only people the outcome is worse for is the unvaccinated. (Cons)

Trump rarely wore a mask and got Covid.
Biden regularly wears a mask and hasn’t gotten Covid.  

To borrow from an infamous Trump line directed toward John McCain, I like Presidents who weren’t sick with Covid.

RQA wrote:

PennSpartan wrote:
Are you talking about the same Trump who said it would go away with the warm weather?  The guy who wanted to inject bleach?  The guy insisted Hydroxychloroquine was the answer?  That guy?  

Your guy promised the following:
1.  Guaranteed regular, reliable and free access to testing
2. Double the number of drive through testing sites and increase the numbers until there are no more lines
3. Build a national contact tracing source, starting by hiring at least 100,000....

(He accomplished none of that)

But  he was handed a vaccine.

His outcome?  Worse than than the previous guy!

He now says there is no federal solution.     He should have told us that during the campaign instead of lying about his "Xiden Plan"

Until the latest version where the numbers are overwhelming the system again, he achieved 1 & 2.

For number 3, yes it was not achieved, though briefly, back in July, it was close.  This issue became the Red States which refused to try to do this.

He is working on upping the testing now, via the at home kits for free, but yes, his covid team dropped the ball on not doing this sooner.  They believed that vaccination could control this, and the Republicans have made sure we don't reach the vaccination levels required.

You should stop listening to Fox News et al, as it is trying to destroy your brain.  Your "sound bite" was taken completely out of context and that is that not what he said, in context.

Trapper Gus wrote:

RQA wrote:

Your guy promised the following:
1.  Guaranteed regular, reliable and free access to testing
2. Double the number of drive through testing sites and increase the numbers until there are no more lines
3. Build a national contact tracing source, starting by hiring at least 100,000....

(He accomplished none of that)

But  he was handed a vaccine.

His outcome?  Worse than than the previous guy!

He now says there is no federal solution.     He should have told us that during the campaign instead of lying about his "Xiden Plan"

Until the latest version where the numbers are overwhelming the system again, he achieved 1 & 2.

For number 3, yes it was not achieved, though briefly, back in July, it was close.  This issue became the Red States which refused to try to do this.

He is working on upping the testing now, via the at home kits for free, but yes, his covid team dropped the ball on not doing this sooner.  They believed that vaccination could control this, and the Republicans have made sure we don't reach the vaccination levels required.

You should stop listening to Fox News et al, as it is trying to destroy your brain.  Your "sound bite" was taken completely out of context and that is that not what he said, in context.

He provided the money for all of testing and tracing, Trapper. The states like Florida dismantled the testing sites, and ordered everyone to ignore testing, tracing, vaccine, and mask mandates and guidelines. You can lead a horses ass to water, but……

I remember when Trump said that Covid was the next Democratic hoax. Then he spent billions to develop vaccines. Do you really need to vaccinate against a hoax?

PennSpartan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Until the latest version where the numbers are overwhelming the system again, he achieved 1 & 2.

For number 3, yes it was not achieved, though briefly, back in July, it was close.  This issue became the Red States which refused to try to do this.

He is working on upping the testing now, via the at home kits for free, but yes, his covid team dropped the ball on not doing this sooner.  They believed that vaccination could control this, and the Republicans have made sure we don't reach the vaccination levels required.

You should stop listening to Fox News et al, as it is trying to destroy your brain.  Your "sound bite" was taken completely out of context and that is that not what he said, in context.

He provided the money for all of testing and tracing, Trapper. The states like Florida dismantled the testing sites, and ordered everyone to ignore testing, tracing, vaccine, and mask mandates and guidelines. You can lead a horses ass to water, but……

So, it all was free, just like he promised, and still is free.

PennSpartan wrote:I remember when Trump said that Covid was the next Democratic hoax. Then he spent billions to develop vaccines. Do you really need to vaccinate against a hoax?

To be fair, it was the Progressives in the House who voted for the money to help develop the vaccines. Trump spent the money the Democratic House voted to put in place.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Until the latest version where the numbers are overwhelming the system again, he achieved 1 & 2.

And until the 4th quarter Pitt was winning the Peach Bowl.

RQA wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Until the latest version where the numbers are overwhelming the system again, he achieved 1 & 2.

And until the 4th quarter Pitt was winning the Peach Bowl.

Where’s the link I asked for?

https://joebiden.com/beat-covid19/

RQA wrote:https://joebiden.com/beat-covid19/

Good plan. But where is the timeline you reference? I don’t see anywhere that it says this will be done by 12/31/21.

PennSpartan wrote:
Good plan. But where is the timeline you reference? I don’t see anywhere that it says this will be done by 12/31/21.

Your dignity would have been better served by just saying "Thanks!"

RQA wrote:

PennSpartan wrote:
Good plan. But where is the timeline you reference? I don’t see anywhere that it says this will be done by 12/31/21.

Your dignity would have been better served by just saying "Thanks!"

I'm not a huge Biden fan, but you voted for a guy who mocked mask-wearers, bragged about TV ratings and Facebook followers during his Covid press conferences, held virtually maskless rallies, and suggested injecting disinfectants.

RQA wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Until the latest version where the numbers are overwhelming the system again, he achieved 1 & 2.

And until the 4th quarter Pitt was winning the Peach Bowl.

It’s still the first quarter of the Biden presidency.

Pervis Muldoon wrote:
I'm not a huge Biden fan, but you voted for a guy

Under the guy I voted for we didn't have the worst inflation in 40 years, we had energy independence, we didn't have 2 million unvaxxed people crossing the border illegally, and we had fewer COVID deaths.

I will admit that under the guy you are not a huge fan of we do have fewer mean tweets.

RQA wrote:

Pervis Muldoon wrote:
I'm not a huge Biden fan, but you voted for a guy

Under the guy I voted for we didn't have the worst inflation in 40 years, we had energy independence, we didn't have 2 million unvaxxed people crossing the border illegally, and we had fewer COVID deaths.

I will admit that under the guy you are not a huge fan of we do have fewer mean tweets.

We had energy independence under Trump?

RQA wrote:

Pervis Muldoon wrote:
I'm not a huge Biden fan, but you voted for a guy

Under the guy I voted for we didn't have the worst inflation in 40 years, we had energy independence, we didn't have 2 million unvaxxed people crossing the border illegally, and we had fewer COVID deaths.

I will admit that under the guy you are not a huge fan of we do have fewer mean tweets.  

The US inflation has a number of causes, all based on the black swan event of a global pandemic.  All but one of the Acts which Congress passed were during the Trump administration, so if the argument is that the US government, by putting money in the economy, caused the inflation (a questionable argument), then it is due to Acts which both Trump & Biden pushed for.  It can also be, and is being argued, that the changes to how Anti-Trust Laws are enforced, which occurred way back in the 1980's, has allowed markets to be controlled by small numbers of corporations, thus creating the situation where prices can be raised without fear of significant competition and, with corporations pulling in record profits as evidence to support this idea, this is part of the cause of inflation.

In any case those Acts have helped the US economy grow at a high rate for the past year, better than most of the globe, to the point that the GDP was higher in 2021 than it was in 2019 (2020, being the onset of covid, is not the year to use to compare).

We had energy independence under President Obama before we had it under President Trump.  The US is the number one producer of oil and natural gas and is a net exporter of both.  The choice to import oil is done corporation by corporation but isn't needed to supply our energy needs.

RQA wrote:

Pervis Muldoon wrote:
I'm not a huge Biden fan, but you voted for a guy

Under the guy I voted for we didn't have the worst inflation in 40 years, we had energy independence, we didn't have 2 million unvaxxed people crossing the border illegally, and we had fewer COVID deaths.

I will admit that under the guy you are not a huge fan of we do have fewer mean tweets.

Sounds idyllic. Why did a record 81,268,924 people vote to kick his fat ass out of the White House?

Only an idiot thinks that 2,000,000 people crossing the border is accurate. The actual number is 1,100,000. Up from 977,000 the previous year. Why's that you say? Well fat genius had his flunkies put a policy in place in 2020 (convenient huh) where anyone crossing the border is immediately released so they can count them again when they try again. (This is where the the actual numberof 1,700,00  comes in to play, not 2,000,000). So the real number is 1,100,000

Not that the usual racist posting style of dirty Mexicans and brown people killing white children will stop.....

kingstonlake wrote:Only an idiot thinks that 2,000,000 people crossing the border is accurate. The actual number is 1,100,000. Up from 977,000 the previous year. Why's that you say? Well fat genius had his flunkies put a policy in place in 2020 (convenient huh) where anyone crossing the border is immediately released so they can count them again when they try again. (This is where the the actual numberof 1,700,00  comes in to play, not 2,000,000). So the real number is 1,100,000

Not that the usual racist posting style of dirty Mexicans and brown people killing white children will stop.....

So the answer is, "Relax, it's not 2 million. It's only 1 million crossing over and over again seemingly at will?" Well, yeah, that sounds so much better.

So, these folks seem as stable as always...

Since Jan. 6, the pro-Trump Internet has descended into infighting over money and followers

The far-right firebrands and conspiracy theorists of the pro-Trump Internet have a new enemy: each other.

QAnon devotees are livid at their former hero Michael Flynn for accurately calling their jumbled credo “total nonsense.” Donald Trump superfans have voiced a sense of betrayal because the former president, booed for getting a coronavirus immunization booster, has become a “vaccine salesman.” And attorney Lin Wood seems mad at pretty much everyone, including former allies on the scattered “elite strike-force team” investigating nonexistent mass voter fraud.

After months of failing to disprove the reality of Trump’s 2020 presidential election loss, some of the Internet’s most popular right-wing provocateurs are grappling with the pressures of restless audiences, saturated markets, ongoing investigations and millions of dollars in legal bills.

The result is a chaotic melodrama, playing out via secretly recorded phone calls, personal attacks in podcasts, and a seemingly endless stream of posts on Twitter, Gab and Telegram calling their rivals Satanists, communists, pedophiles or “pay-triots” — money-grubbing grifters exploiting the cause.
...

Bredo Morstoel wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:Only an idiot thinks that 2,000,000 people crossing the border is accurate. The actual number is 1,100,000. Up from 977,000 the previous year. Why's that you say? Well fat genius had his flunkies put a policy in place in 2020 (convenient huh) where anyone crossing the border is immediately released so they can count them again when they try again. (This is where the the actual numberof 1,700,00  comes in to play, not 2,000,000). So the real number is 1,100,000

Not that the usual racist posting style of dirty Mexicans and brown people killing white children will stop.....

So the answer is, "Relax, it's not 2 million. It's only 1 million crossing over and over again seemingly at will?" Well, yeah, that sounds so much better.

Seemingly.