Why isn’t the administration more hostile towards big oil and Saudi Arabia?

Why are we/they even pretending this is a codependent relationship? Big oil is clearly not on the side of the American middle class? We are we pretending this isn’t what it is? Wouldn’t Biden gain the support of struggling Americans by laying out the case of who is on their side and who isn’t?

Demand production and refining requirements domestically 
Ban stock buy backs within the industry 
Tell SA military supports ends tomorrow until they ramp up production
Announce government funded refinery infrastructure owned and run by the government
Make crude producers sell a fixed % of crude to those projects
Force Big Oil into a competitive environment

Careful you might hurt someone's feelings in SA

The Green New Deal is really showing it’s effects now. Thanks AOC.

aualum06 wrote:Careful you might hurt someone's feelings in SA

Trump made that threat to them to get them to cut production in April 2020

Yes, a great way to get the support of struggling Americans is to cut off another major oil producer so that gas prices rise even higher (and therefore pretty much everything else since most products/services use gas to operate).

This is as good as anywhere to point at the changes in anti-trust enforcement ...

The foundational initiative at both agencies is the joint effort to revise merger guidelines, which is the way that enforcers think about how to use antitrust laws. In April, I discussed the stakes, and showed how there was a secret and successful plot using these merger guidelines to unleash corporate power in the 1980s, and that this quiet revolution explains why our politics and economic order has become so consolidated and dysfunctional. Last week in The Conglomerate Problem, I described how, because of this shift, all industries created since the 1980s, such as cloud computing, most information technology, social media, mobile telephony, and other forms of data-intensive industries, grew up in an environment conducive to monopolization and empire-building conglomerates.

https://mattstoller.substack.com/p/torpedoes-in-the-water?s=r

MiamiSpartan wrote:Yes, a great way to get the support of struggling Americans is to cut off another major oil producer so that gas prices rise even higher (and therefore pretty much everything else since most products/services use gas to operate).

I’m suggesting the opposite. They want protection. Then produce.

kingstonlake wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:Yes, a great way to get the support of struggling Americans is to cut off another major oil producer so that gas prices rise even higher (and therefore pretty much everything else since most products/services use gas to operate).

I’m suggesting the opposite. They want protection. Then produce.

Can they on their own, or is that controlled by OPEC? I honestly dont know if OPEC determines production levels or just price.

Either way, the less business and agreements we have with Saudi Arabia the better. Ideally, cut them off completely. I know that sounds contradictory to my earlier post, but in that one I was just talking about winning over struggling Americans. Cutting them off would not help struggling Americans. But as is the case with Russia, it is the right thing to do. SA is a country that engages in state sponsored murder and dismemberment of journalists, and has been bombing the fuck out of civilians for years. From a strategic interests point of view, of course Russia is worse. Morally speaking, the two arent that far apart. Fuck them, and fuck Phil Mickelson, Sergio Garcia, etc. that are helping them sportswash their disgusting human rights record.

Don’t forget to fuck man city Miami

MiamiSpartan wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

I’m suggesting the opposite. They want protection. Then produce.

Can they on their own, or is that controlled by OPEC?  I honestly dont know if OPEC determines production levels or just price.

Either way, the less business and agreements we have with Saudi Arabia the better.  Ideally, cut them off completely. I know that sounds contradictory to my earlier post, but in that one I was just talking about winning over struggling Americans.  Cutting them off would not help struggling Americans.  But as is the case with Russia, it is the right thing to do.  SA is a country that engages in state sponsored murder and dismemberment of journalists, and has been bombing the fuck out of civilians for years.  From a strategic interests point of view, of course Russia is worse.  Morally speaking, the two arent that far apart.  Fuck them, and fuck Phil Mickelson, Sergio Garcia, etc. that are helping them sportswash their disgusting human rights record.

Oil Prices are global, so even though the US pumps more oil out of the ground than any other country and more than enough to supply our needs the price is set by global factors, like global supply & demand, global refining capacity and global shipping.

Withdrawing US military protection of SA would disrupt markets and drive up prices everywhere.

High demand isn’t helping the situation. Cutting back on driving, car pooling, and slowing down would help some. Of course it doesn’t help that companies like Ford got rid of all their small cars in favor of big trucks and SUV’s. Brilliant!

PennSpartan wrote:High demand isn’t helping the situation. Cutting back on driving, car pooling, and slowing down would help some. Of course it doesn’t help that companies like Ford got rid of all their small cars in favor of big trucks and SUV’s. Brilliant!

The Ford truck I just purchased is averaging about 31 mpg

Trapper Gus wrote:

PennSpartan wrote:High demand isn’t helping the situation. Cutting back on driving, car pooling, and slowing down would help some. Of course it doesn’t help that companies like Ford got rid of all their small cars in favor of big trucks and SUV’s. Brilliant!

The Ford truck I just purchased is averaging about 31 mpg

But small cars would do better.

PennSpartan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

The Ford truck I just purchased is averaging about 31 mpg

But small cars would do better.

BEV's would do better yet, but trucks are not what we knew when we were young, the days of 350 V8s with 12 mpg are gone.

Demand is not driving gas prices.

The fact is oil and gas, being controlled by oligopolies can set the price to whatever they want (and they have, with gigundous profits right now) and the markets cannot shift fast enough for supply and demand to be much of a factor.

Isn’t demand lower?

I don’t think we have a crude shortage. We have a refining shortage. 

And…… gasp….. I’m guessing domestic oil production is exporting a ton now in light of the Russian invasion. Profit profit profit.

Trapper Gus wrote:

PennSpartan wrote:
But small cars would do better.

BEV's would do better yet, but trucks are not what we knew when we were young, the days of 350 V8s with 12 mpg are gone.

Demand is not driving gas prices.

The fact is oil and gas, being controlled by oligopolies can set the price to whatever they want and the markets cannot shift fast enough for supply and demand to be much of a factor.

Demand is definitely driving fuel prices. Gas was cheap in 2020 because of low demand. As people started driving again the price began to rise. Do you always argue just for the sake of argument? I’ve probably read 50 articles that said demand has caused the surge in price. Jesus.

kingstonlake wrote:Isn’t demand lower?

I don’t think we have a crude shortage. We have a refining shortage. 

And…… gasp….. I’m guessing domestic oil production is exporting a ton now in light of the Russian invasion. Profit profit profit.

The refining industry shut down some refineries in the last few years, mostly because smaller refining corporations were purchased by larger ones which shut them down.

Also, the existing US refineries can only accept certain types of oil, mostly based on what SA pumps. The US oil is mostly too good (clean - low sulfur content) for US refineries and thus is shipped overseas.

You’re wrong Penn. Demand is the same as it was in 2019.

Phillips 66 never re opened its Louisiana refinery after hurricane Ida

LyondellBasell  closed its Houston refinery

We have a refinery problem. One oil companies are refusing to address. All while taking government subsidies.

kingstonlake wrote:You’re wrong Penn. Demand is the same as it was in 2019.

What caused the price to drop in 2020?

PennSpartan wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:You’re wrong Penn. Demand is the same as it was in 2019.

What caused the price to drop in 2020?  

Irrelevant

PennSpartan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

BEV's would do better yet, but trucks are not what we knew when we were young, the days of 350 V8s with 12 mpg are gone.

Demand is not driving gas prices.

The fact is oil and gas, being controlled by oligopolies can set the price to whatever they want and the markets cannot shift fast enough for supply and demand to be much of a factor.

Demand is definitely driving fuel prices. Gas was cheap in 2020 because of low demand. As people started driving again the price began to rise. Do you always argue just for the sake of argument? I’ve probably read 50 articles that said demand has caused the surge in price. Jesus.

While I posted \one graph from the EIA (US government energy tracking agency) which shows that demand is lower, and an article showing that the inflation in gas prices is due to corporations increasing their profits by gigundous numbers.

No, I never argue for the sake of arguing, I correct other posters misconceptions of what the truth is.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/06/10/fact-check-higher-gas-prices-due-national-and-seasonal-demand/5253346001/

Trapper Gus wrote:

PennSpartan wrote:
Demand is definitely driving fuel prices. Gas was cheap in 2020 because of low demand. As people started driving again the price began to rise. Do you always argue just for the sake of argument? I’ve probably read 50 articles that said demand has caused the surge in price. Jesus.

While I posted \one graph from the EIA (US government energy tracking agency) which shows that demand is lower, and an article showing that the inflation in gas prices is due to corporations increasing their profits by gigundous numbers.

No, I never argue for the sake of arguing, I correct other posters misconceptions of what the truth is.

Says the guy blaming Reagan for high gas prices. LOL

PennSpartan wrote:https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/06/10/fact-check-higher-gas-prices-due-national-and-seasonal-demand/5253346001/

 From your 2021 article…...:lol: Tou just made me and trappers point for us. 

We expect oil producers in the United States and globally to increase their production levels through 2022, which we expect to contribute to lower crude oil prices, and lower gasoline prices."

 

kingstonlake wrote:

PennSpartan wrote:https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/06/10/fact-check-higher-gas-prices-due-national-and-seasonal-demand/5253346001/

 From your 2021 article…...:lol: Tou just made me and trappers point for us. 

We expect oil producers in the United States and globally to increase their production levels through 2022, which we expect to contribute to lower crude oil prices, and lower gasoline prices."

 

What year did the price start going up?  Did you take even one Econ class at MSU?  High demand = high prices. I’ll let you guess what low demand brings. LOL

PennSpartan wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:
 From your 2021 article…...:lol: Tou just made me and trappers point for us. 




 

What year did the price start going up?  Did you take even one Econ class at MSU?  High demand = high prices. I’ll let you guess what low demand brings. LOL

Your simplistic view of supply and demand reasoning is amusing. Did you read the quote from your link?

PennSpartan wrote:https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/06/10/fact-check-higher-gas-prices-due-national-and-seasonal-demand/5253346001/

Oil producers closed valves on wells, keeping oil in the ground in 2020, due to a demand shock.  All they had to do was open them again, which they did not do*.  All this talk about supply & demand is smoke and mirrors to hide that fact that they raised to prices.  In an oligopoly price has little to do with supply & demand.

Looking through that article there is nothing in it, or in its references, to support the "supply & demand" theory, while I agree with the opinion that President Biden's policies have little to do with current gas prices.

Here is an EIA graph of existing oil & gas supplies.



As can be seen there are as much now as in 2018, when prices were much lower.

*I have corrected a typo in my post, it reads correctly now, before is said "which they did".[/u]

PennSpartan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

While I posted \one graph from the EIA (US government energy tracking agency) which shows that demand is lower, and an article showing that the inflation in gas prices is due to corporations increasing their profits by gigundous numbers.

No, I never argue for the sake of arguing, I correct other posters misconceptions of what the truth is.

Says the guy blaming Reagan for high gas prices. LOL

An argument I have backed up with the facts.

The creating of markets which are oligopolies is due to policies Reagan put in place. The oligopolies are what control prices and create inflation. They also create an economy which is very "fragile" and does not handle "shocks" such as the drop in demand due to the pandemic at all well.

PennSpartan wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:
 From your 2021 article…...:lol: Tou just made me and trappers point for us. 




 

What year did the price start going up?  Did you take even one Econ class at MSU?  High demand = high prices. I’ll let you guess what low demand brings. LOL

Of course demand contributes to gas prices, but it is not why it is so much higher than pre-covid now.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Don’t forget to fuck man city Miami

Always fuck Man City.

But since this is a thread about Saudi Arabia, and not UAE, fuck Newcastle, eh?

MiamiSpartan wrote:

PennSpartan wrote:
What year did the price start going up?  Did you take even one Econ class at MSU?  High demand = high prices. I’ll let you guess what low demand brings. LOL

Of course demand contributes to gas prices, but it is not why it is so much higher than pre-covid now.

I agree. But if demand went down, producers would be forced to lower prices. That’s all I’m saying.

PennSpartan wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:

Of course demand contributes to gas prices, but it is not why it is so much higher than pre-covid now.

I agree. But if demand went down, producers would be forced to lower prices. That’s all I’m saying.

Only if the change is unexpected and the producers get caught with too much oil above the ground, which is what happened in 2020, and also to a lesser extent, due to US wells coming on line due to fracking, between 2014 to 2018.

The oligopolies in the oil & gas business are controlling the supply to their own ends, profits, and only when their planning is fucked by sudden unexpected demand drops, causing operational issues in their companies, do prices fall.  They set the price on the "normal" market regardless of supply and demand, or at least the supply and demand curves we learned in high school.  The real economy doesn't follow those except in the extremes, because the oligophages have the power to control the market, included as someone noted, demanding that the government use its might to control the supply.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Don’t forget to fuck man city Miami

Always fuck Man City.

But since this is a thread about Saudi Arabia, and not UAE, fuck Newcastle, eh?

Fuck Newcastle too

Trapper Gus wrote:

PennSpartan wrote:
I agree. But if demand went down, producers would be forced to lower prices. That’s all I’m saying.

Only if the change is unexpected and the producers get caught with too much oil above the ground, which is what happened in 2020, and also to a lesser extent, due to US wells coming on line due to fracking, between 2014 to 2018.

The oligopolies in the oil & gas business are controlling the supply to their own ends, profits, and only when their planning is fucked by sudden unexpected demand drops, causing operational issues in their companies, do prices fall.  They set the price on the "normal" market regardless of supply and demand, or at least the supply and demand curves we learned in high school.  The real economy doesn't follow those except in the extremes, because the oligophages have the power to control the market, included as someone noted, demanding that the government use its might to control the supply.

LOL

Also a factor (in my opinion) is that Oil sees no benefit to investment in long term projects for oil (refinery building, upgrading, or re-opening) with a needed push to renewable energy so they’re in fuck everyone mode and……. gouging. Pull their subsidies immediately and give them to renewable energy investments and infrastructure.

Again I’d like to thank Penn for the link 

PennSpartan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Only if the change is unexpected and the producers get caught with too much oil above the ground, which is what happened in 2020, and also to a lesser extent, due to US wells coming on line due to fracking, between 2014 to 2018.

The oligopolies in the oil & gas business are controlling the supply to their own ends, profits, and only when their planning is fucked by sudden unexpected demand drops, causing operational issues in their companies, do prices fall.  They set the price on the "normal" market regardless of supply and demand, or at least the supply and demand curves we learned in high school.  The real economy doesn't follow those except in the extremes, because the oligophages have the power to control the market, included as someone noted, demanding that the government use its might to control the supply.

LOL

Apparently you fell asleep in econ class before monopolies and oligopolies were covered.

kingstonlake wrote:Again I’d like to thank Penn for the link 

Thanks. It backed up exactly what I said. Supply and demand.

PennSpartan wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:Again I’d like to thank Penn for the link 

Thanks. It backed up exactly what I said. Supply and demand.

That it did in words, but it had no data in its references to prove that was correct.

Trapper Gus wrote:

PennSpartan wrote:
Thanks. It backed up exactly what I said. Supply and demand.

That it did in words, but it had no data in its references to prove that was correct.

Better than blaming Reagan.