Economic Development Becomes a Political Football for Republicans & Baby Boomers? WTF

For those following this story, there is a rural county in Michigan where a battery company supplier wants to build a plant.

The county and township governments are positive on the idea. there is big money from the state to help, and the country has been losing population.

The Republicans from outside the country have been ginning up the anti-plant side & local baby boomers don't want their rural scenery and tranquility disturbed.

The jobs at the plant will pay about $25/hr, well above what is available in county now, and of course the construction will bring money in too.

WTF.  Since when was one major party against development if a different party was in power in the state?  The local governments, based on where this is, are likely all members of this major party that is shitting all over this.

https://www.bridgemi.com/business-watch/politics-rumors-fueling-conflict-big-rapids-over-gotion-plant-deal

edit - two threads on the same news stories so here is the link to the other one I started, sorry about that, but different topic, slightly.

https://spartanswill.forumotion.com/t25107-local-meeting-about-battery-plant-moves-on-line-to-avoid-outside-agitators

I’ve watched this blow up on Twitter. It’s an anti whitmer thing I think. They don’t want her to have success. Bringing up the fact Snyder was a champion of working with China gets a response of “that was different in 2018”.

DWags wrote:I’ve watched this blow up on Twitter. It’s an anti Whitmer thing I think. They don’t want her to have success. Bringing up the fact Snyder was a champion of working with China gets a response of “that was different in 2018”.

Yes, that is what is pissing me off.

When did everything, especially things that would be good for almost everyone, become all political footballs?

Trapper Gus wrote:

DWags wrote:I’ve watched this blow up on Twitter. It’s an anti Whitmer thing I think. They don’t want her to have success. Bringing up the fact Snyder was a champion of working with China gets a response of “that was different in 2018”.

Yes, that is what is pissing me off.

When did everything, especially things that would be good for almost everyone, become all political footballs?

January 20, 2016

TravelinMan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Yes, that is what is pissing me off.

When did everything, especially things that would be good for almost everyone, become all political footballs?

January 20, 2016

Well maybe in November of 2016, but yes, though we could go back to Ross Perot and his "huge sucking sound" in 1992.

For 45 years the Democratic Party ignored it's roots and cozied up with the big money capitalists via neoliberal economic policies.  The progressives have broken away from that and Biden gets it and has joined them.  Now we have the crazies in the Republican Party who only goal is to "own the libs" instead of having any positive policies for the country.

Trapper Gus wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:

January 20, 2016

Well maybe in November of 2016, but yes, though we could go back to Ross Perot and his "huge sucking sound" in 1992.

For 45 years the Democratic Party ignored it's roots and cozied up with the big money capitalists via neoliberal economic policies.  The progressives have broken away from that and Biden gets it and has joined them.  Now we have the crazies in the Republican Party who only goal is to "own the libs" instead of having any positive policies for the country.

Election day 2016 is probably a better answer, as that is when each side started gearing up for battle and talking crazy shit at each other.

We need a third party in this country. Let the progressives split off from the mainstream Dems. Let the religious right split off from the mainstream Reps. Let's build a middle party focused on actual governing and solving things as opposed to partisan bickering.

Ah, who am I kidding? That's as likely as world peace or cold fusion.

TravelinMan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Well maybe in November of 2016, but yes, though we could go back to Ross Perot and his "huge sucking sound" in 1992.

For 45 years the Democratic Party ignored it's roots and cozied up with the big money capitalists via neoliberal economic policies.  The progressives have broken away from that and Biden gets it and has joined them.  Now we have the crazies in the Republican Party who only goal is to "own the libs" instead of having any positive policies for the country.

Election day 2016 is probably a better answer, as that is when each side started gearing up for battle and talking crazy shit at each other.

We need a third party in this country.  Let the progressives split off from the mainstream Dems.  Let the religious right split off from the mainstream Reps.  Let's build a middle party focused on actual governing and solving things as opposed to partisan bickering.

Ah, who am I kidding?  That's as likely as world peace or cold fusion.

If we could have gotten the Voting Rights Act passed in the last Congress and then with more responsible state legislatures gotten ranked voting in the states, then third party candidates might have chances to win.

As it is, at least since 1856, third parties have tended to cause the party they split from to lose elections.  Clinton became President twice because of third party splits on the Republican side.  Trump splitting from the Republicans would cause them to lose the Presidental election, though it actually might help their Congressional races.

As for the "crazy shit" I see the Democratic "crazy shit" being proposed economic development laws that some disagree with while the Republican "crazy shit" is trying to return the country to a time before the War of Rebelion. Of the two at least the Democratic "crazy shit" will help those "crazy shit" Republicans too.

Trapper Gus wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:

Election day 2016 is probably a better answer, as that is when each side started gearing up for battle and talking crazy shit at each other.

We need a third party in this country. Let the progressives split off from the mainstream Dems. Let the religious right split off from the mainstream Reps. Let's build a middle party focused on actual governing and solving things as opposed to partisan bickering.

Ah, who am I kidding? That's as likely as world peace or cold fusion.

If we could have gotten the Voting Rights Act passed in the last Congress and then with more responsible state legislatures gotten ranked voting in the states, then third party candidates might have chances to win.

As it is, at least since 1856, third parties have tended to cause the party they split from to lose elections. Clinton became President twice because of third party splits on the Republican side. Trump splitting from the Republicans would cause them to lose the Presidental election, though it actually might help their Congressional races.

Again - this is all fantasy talk and will never occur.

Don't split off from either Dems or Reps. Start a new party. It's not a splinter - it's a new thing.

Lots of Dems unhappy with Biden as the choice. The Republicans are VERY split these days. I think 2024 would be the time to make it happen.

TravelinMan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

If we could have gotten the Voting Rights Act passed in the last Congress and then with more responsible state legislatures gotten ranked voting in the states, then third party candidates might have chances to win.

As it is, at least since 1856, third parties have tended to cause the party they split from to lose elections. Clinton became President twice because of third party splits on the Republican side. Trump splitting from the Republicans would cause them to lose the Presidental election, though it actually might help their Congressional races.

Again - this is all fantasy talk and will never occur.

Don't split off from either Dems or Reps. Start a new party. It's not a splinter - it's a new thing.

Lots of Dems unhappy with Biden as the choice. The Republicans are VERY split these days. I think 2024 would be the time to make it happen.

Most of the talk I have seen is about some No Labels Party, which political analysis believe will hurt the Democratic Party more. If you want the Republicans and Trump in charge, go ahead and support it.

TravelinMan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

If we could have gotten the Voting Rights Act passed in the last Congress and then with more responsible state legislatures gotten ranked voting in the states, then third party candidates might have chances to win.

As it is, at least since 1856, third parties have tended to cause the party they split from to lose elections. Clinton became President twice because of third party splits on the Republican side. Trump splitting from the Republicans would cause them to lose the Presidental election, though it actually might help their Congressional races.

Again - this is all fantasy talk and will never occur.

Don't split off from either Dems or Reps. Start a new party. It's not a splinter - it's a new thing.

Lots of Dems unhappy with Biden as the choice. The Republicans are VERY split these days. I think 2024 would be the time to make it happen.

The Republicans are very split?

No they're not.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/protest-held-over-proposed-michigan-megasite-in-marshall/ar-AA16I7VO

NigelUno wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:

Again - this is all fantasy talk and will never occur.

Don't split off from either Dems or Reps. Start a new party. It's not a splinter - it's a new thing.

Lots of Dems unhappy with Biden as the choice. The Republicans are VERY split these days. I think 2024 would be the time to make it happen.

The Republicans are very split?

No they're not.

Uh…. MAGA Trump fucks vs. the rest of the party???

TravelinMan wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

The Republicans are very split?

No they're not.

Uh…. MAGA Trump fucks vs. the rest of the party???

You're talking about an imaginary split. Let me know when the rest of the party takes on the King.

NigelUno wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:

Uh…. MAGA Trump fucks vs. the rest of the party???

You're talking about an imaginary split. Let me know when the rest of the party takes on the King.

There're already candidates lining up, and DeSantis will declare at some point. Your "king" will have plenty of competition.

TravelinMan wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

You're talking about an imaginary split. Let me know when the rest of the party takes on the King.

There're already candidates lining up, and DeSantis will declare at some point. Your "king" will have plenty of competition.

So...you're talking about a hypothetical split.

You think a bunch of candidates are going to take on Trump in the primaries?

AvgMSUJoe wrote:https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/protest-held-over-proposed-michigan-megasite-in-marshall/ar-AA16I7VO

Amusing that near the intersection of two major freeways they think they are in some backwater place, or that a plant not even in town is seen as threatening. Other than more money being spent in Marshall what's their beef?

TravelinMan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

If we could have gotten the Voting Rights Act passed in the last Congress and then with more responsible state legislatures gotten ranked voting in the states, then third party candidates might have chances to win.

As it is, at least since 1856, third parties have tended to cause the party they split from to lose elections. Clinton became President twice because of third party splits on the Republican side. Trump splitting from the Republicans would cause them to lose the Presidental election, though it actually might help their Congressional races.

Again - this is all fantasy talk and will never occur.

Don't split off from either Dems or Reps. Start a new party. It's not a splinter - it's a new thing.

Lots of Dems unhappy with Biden as the choice. The Republicans are VERY split these days. I think 2024 would be the time to make it happen.

You have that right, it is all fantasy.

Don't think there are that many Democratic voters who are unhappy with what Biden got done, some wish he achieved more but few wanted less.

Biggest grip is his age, but many with that grip don't really see a realistic alternative.

With Trump the Republicans don't like his baggage, or they don't like the idea their friends know they voted for him again. All in all they live in a fantasy world where they can have all the programs that the Democratics propose but without taxes, and funny but Trump gets that. Most or the other possibilities have some trouble telling that lie to the voters with a straight face.

NigelUno wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:

There're already candidates lining up, and DeSantis will declare at some point. Your "king" will have plenty of competition.

So...you're talking about a hypothetical split.

You think a bunch of candidates are going to take on Trump in the primaries?

Yes, of course. Haley and Hutchinson have already declared. DeSantis will in time. There will be a few others. You think he's going to run unopposed?!? That's just silly.

Trapper Gus wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:

Again - this is all fantasy talk and will never occur.

Don't split off from either Dems or Reps. Start a new party. It's not a splinter - it's a new thing.

Lots of Dems unhappy with Biden as the choice. The Republicans are VERY split these days. I think 2024 would be the time to make it happen.

You have that right, it is all fantasy.

Don't think there are that many Democratic voters who are unhappy with what Biden got done, some wish he achieved more but few wanted less.

Biggest grip is his age, but many with that grip don't really see a realistic alternative.

With Trump the Republicans don't like his baggage, or they don't like the idea their friends know they voted for him again. All in all they live in a fantasy world where they can have all the programs that the Democratics propose but without taxes, and funny but Trump gets that. Most or the other possibilities have some trouble telling that lie to the voters with a straight face.

Biden 2024? Most Democrats say no thank you

It all started with an internationally famous Michigan-based musical performance group declaring magnets a conspiracy promoted by the scientific community. Since then, Michigan has made no sense.

TravelinMan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

You have that right, it is all fantasy.

Don't think there are that many Democratic voters who are unhappy with what Biden got done, some wish he achieved more but few wanted less.

Biggest grip is his age, but many with that grip don't really see a realistic alternative.

With Trump the Republicans don't like his baggage, or they don't like the idea their friends know they voted for him again. All in all they live in a fantasy world where they can have all the programs that the Democratics propose but without taxes, and funny but Trump gets that. Most or the other possibilities have some trouble telling that lie to the voters with a straight face.

Biden 2024? Most Democrats say no thank you

Almost 40% of Democratic voters say yes, and this was before Biden took the Republicans to the woodshed in the SOTU speech. I guess what I am saying is that the AP headline is written to be click bait, and the article is too, as it mixes up Democratic voters, Republican voters (who not surprisingly are not in favor) and people who don't vote.

I would accept a headline that said "Many" but "Most" is over the top.

TravelinMan wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

So...you're talking about a hypothetical split.

You think a bunch of candidates are going to take on Trump in the primaries?

Yes, of course. Haley and Hutchinson have already declared. DeSantis will in time. There will be a few others. You think he's going to run unopposed?!? That's just silly.

Shenanigans
https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/local/2023/04/05/lansing-megasite-development-battery-plant-eagle-township/70077319007/

Quite a bit of nimby ongoing in Michigan.  MSU is involved in this one, isn't it?

ls Party, which political analysis believe will hurt the Democratic Party more. If you want the Republicans and Trump in charge, go ahead and support it.

The problem is, whoever splits is risking a FAR greater evil in their eyes.

If Dems split, you're probably electing trump. A real threat to the continuation of this country.

If republicans split, you're electing some mythical dirty communist socialist that hates our country, hates you, and wants to take your guns and kill your babies.

One of these is not like the other.

gets that. Most or the other possibilities have some trouble telling that lie to the voters with a straight face.

I don't know about Desantis.  It might be hopeless for him to win and he might not want to go in hard on something and end up being a loser because that could tarnish a future run that may be more realistic sans trump.  I think he walks the walk for a while to make sure Trump is going to go through with it and then he will back out and support trump.  Desantis needs his MAGA to have a chance, he won't get it running against trump and trashing him the whole primary season. Backing out preserves his standing and gives him a chance to suck them all up on to his side in another election.

But the panel did not take up a separate $175 million incentive for a third project in Big Rapids, where Gotion Inc. wants to build a $2.3 billion battery component factory touted by Democratic Gov. Gretchen Whitmer.

The development has faced public criticism in rural Mecosta County and beyond, with critics raising security concerns because of ties between Gotion's parent company and the Chinese Community Party. Others have questioned the potential impacts on the environment and community.

"Our members still have some more questions," Senate Appropriations Chair Sarah Anthony, D-Lansing, told reporters after a brief meeting that lasted less than five minutes. "That's really the function of this committee — to ask the questions, to vet (projects) before we review.”

https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-government/gotion-funding-hold-michigan-amid-uproar-over-china-ties

Trapper Gus wrote:

But the panel did not take up a separate $175 million incentive for a third project in Big Rapids, where Gotion Inc. wants to build a $2.3 billion battery component factory touted by Democratic Gov. Gretchen Whitmer.

The development has faced public criticism in rural Mecosta County and beyond, with critics raising security concerns because of ties between Gotion's parent company and the Chinese Community Party. Others have questioned the potential impacts on the environment and community.

"Our members still have some more questions," Senate Appropriations Chair Sarah Anthony, D-Lansing, told reporters after a brief meeting that lasted less than five minutes. "That's really the function of this committee — to ask the questions, to vet (projects) before we review.”

https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-government/gotion-funding-hold-michigan-amid-uproar-over-china-ties

That's been a fun story to follow. Seems like half the town is like "Keep the damn Commies out" and the other half are like "Um... they paid me 3x my properties worth. Bye!"

TravelinMan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-government/gotion-funding-hold-michigan-amid-uproar-over-china-ties

That's been a fun story to follow. Seems like half the town is like "Keep the damn Commies out" and the other half are like "Um... they paid me 3x my properties worth. Bye!"

A business that will improve the economics in that area that pays close to twice the average wage for that area verses old people who don't give a fuck about that area's longer term economics but just retired there and don't want more people there. Opportunistic Whitmer haters riling up the news cycle and drawing in outside Whitmer haters there to protest.

Then there are the local politicians who see a good get for the area trying to keep a lid on things. My guess is that after an in person hearing in Lansing this will be approved, with lots of Whitmer haters shouting and brandishing their guns.

Trapper Gus wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:

That's been a fun story to follow.  Seems like half the town is like "Keep the damn Commies out" and the other half are like "Um... they paid me 3x my properties worth.  Bye!"

A business that will improve the economics in that area that pays close to twice the average wage for that area verses old people who don't give a fuck about that area's longer term economics but just retired there and don't want more people there.  Opportunistic Whitmer haters riling up the news cycle and drawing in outside Whitmer haters there to protest.

Then there are the local politicians who see a good get for the area trying to keep a lid on things.  My guess is that after an in person hearing in Lansing this will be approved, with lots of Whitmer haters shouting and brandishing their guns.

Yeah, probably true.  I do wish it wasn't involved with the Chinese.  The amount of corporate espionage and other coercive tactics they get away with is complete bullshit.  

But they're probably going to win anyway, so all hail our new Chinese corporate overlords.

TravelinMan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

A business that will improve the economics in that area that pays close to twice the average wage for that area verses old people who don't give a fuck about that area's longer term economics but just retired there and don't want more people there.  Opportunistic Whitmer haters riling up the news cycle and drawing in outside Whitmer haters there to protest.

Then there are the local politicians who see a good get for the area trying to keep a lid on things.  My guess is that after an in person hearing in Lansing this will be approved, with lots of Whitmer haters shouting and brandishing their guns.

Yeah, probably true.  I do wish it wasn't involved with the Chinese.  The amount of corporate espionage and other coercive tactics they get away with is complete bullshit.  

But they're probably going to win anyway, so all hail our new Chinese corporate overlords.

I'll admit I don't trust the Chinese government to play fair, like back in the 2000's when they sucked all the third teir suppliers out of the US by running their own companies at a loss.

However, everything I read says they are ahead of the US in battery tech, so other than profits not sure what they could gain.  Run the place at a loss to keep others out of the market?

https://www.bridgemi.com/business-watch/michigan-senate-narrowly-clears-175-million-china-linked-gotion-plant

Jobs win out over fear of China and NIMBY.

Expected pay for up to 2,350 workers is important, they said. Starting production wages should be $24 per hour — or about $50,000 per year — plus benefits, Thelen told Bridge recently. The local officials also insisted that Gotion has addressed all concerns raised about its company and potential operations in the township.